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Canzano’s odds on PAC expansion candidates
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RUScarlets Offline
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Post: #281
RE: Canzano’s odds on PAC expansion candidates
(09-12-2022 03:20 PM)Aztecgolfer Wrote:  Zags? Sure. But why would the MWC teams vote in Ore and Wash who would have a huge financial advantage due to their media contract with the BIG while not providing much, if any, increase in the MWC media contract?

I don't know what the BBall shares are in the MWC. If UO and UW allocate more from the football revenue, then yeah, it's a major competitive advantage for two above average BBall programs historically. But it could help lure Zaga by having rivals in such proximity. I mean that's four immediate rivals in the PNW where MWC has no presence, with 2/5 playing football. It should warrant an increase in the per school payouts. Theoretically, MWC could make UO and UW operate Olympics at a perpetual margin deficit, because those schools would need the MWC more than the MWC would need them. Also, the MWC could mandate Civil War and Apple Cup be protected OOC to get rights to 1/2 of those games a year involving UO/UW. Crazy, unlikely scenario, so I'll move on.

Anyhow, it's getting more and more unlikely we see a deal. There are just too many stumbling blocks, both with B1G expansion and Big 12/PAC 12 setups. I don't see a 10 million dollar difference there. If we do hear anything, it will be just after the season ends, in time for 24' play.

I have SDSU and UNLV going, but I'd like to see the PAC try to land Hawaii/Zaga. SMU is also the strongly rumored one, but I think it's a horrible fit. Hard pass there.
(This post was last modified: 09-12-2022 03:43 PM by RUScarlets.)
09-12-2022 03:37 PM
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Pony94 Offline
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Canzano’s odds on PAC expansion candidates
(09-12-2022 03:37 PM)RUScarlets Wrote:  
(09-12-2022 03:20 PM)Aztecgolfer Wrote:  Zags? Sure. But why would the MWC teams vote in Ore and Wash who would have a huge financial advantage due to their media contract with the BIG while not providing much, if any, increase in the MWC media contract?

I don't know what the BBall shares are in the MWC. If UO and UW allocate more from the football revenue, then yeah, it's a major competitive advantage for two above average BBall programs historically. But it could help lure Zaga by having rivals in such proximity. I mean that's four immediate rivals in the PNW where MWC has no presence, with 2/5 playing football. It should warrant an increase in the per school payouts. Theoretically, MWC could make UO and UW operate Olympics at a perpetual margin deficit, because those schools would need the MWC more than the MWC would need them. Also, the MWC could mandate Civil War and Apple Cup be protected OOC to get rights to 1/2 of those games a year involving UO/UW. Crazy, unlikely scenario, so I'll move on.

Anyhow, it's getting more and more unlikely we see a deal. There are just too many stumbling blocks, both with B1G expansion and Big 12/PAC 12 setups. I don't see a 10 million dollar difference there. If we do hear anything, it will be just after the season ends, in time for 24' play.

I have SDSU and UNLV going, but I'd like to see the PAC try to land Hawaii/Zaga. SMU is also the strongly rumored one, but I think it's a horrible fit. Hard pass there.


SMU a bad fit in the PAC 12 like Rutgers in the Big 10?
09-12-2022 05:05 PM
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RUScarlets Offline
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Post: #283
RE: Canzano’s odds on PAC expansion candidates
(09-12-2022 05:05 PM)Pony94 Wrote:  SMU a bad fit in the PAC 12 like Rutgers in the Big 10?

Hope you guys make it. But if you're modeling that move based on Rutgers, then God help that administration.
09-12-2022 07:19 PM
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Aztecgolfer Offline
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RE: Canzano’s odds on PAC expansion candidates
(09-12-2022 03:37 PM)RUScarlets Wrote:  
(09-12-2022 03:20 PM)Aztecgolfer Wrote:  Zags? Sure. But why would the MWC teams vote in Ore and Wash who would have a huge financial advantage due to their media contract with the BIG while not providing much, if any, increase in the MWC media contract?

I don't know what the BBall shares are in the MWC. If UO and UW allocate more from the football revenue, then yeah, it's a major competitive advantage for two above average BBall programs historically. But it could help lure Zaga by having rivals in such proximity. I mean that's four immediate rivals in the PNW where MWC has no presence, with 2/5 playing football. It should warrant an increase in the per school payouts. Theoretically, MWC could make UO and UW operate Olympics at a perpetual margin deficit, because those schools would need the MWC more than the MWC would need them. Also, the MWC could mandate Civil War and Apple Cup be protected OOC to get rights to 1/2 of those games a year involving UO/UW. Crazy, unlikely scenario, so I'll move on.

Anyhow, it's getting more and more unlikely we see a deal. There are just too many stumbling blocks, both with B1G expansion and Big 12/PAC 12 setups. I don't see a 10 million dollar difference there. If we do hear anything, it will be just after the season ends, in time for 24' play.

I have SDSU and UNLV going, but I'd like to see the PAC try to land Hawaii/Zaga. SMU is also the strongly rumored one, but I think it's a horrible fit. Hard pass there.


Basketball doesn't drive the bus. Both UO and OW would come in making many times that of the average MWC team at $4M. They would not bring anything substantial to our media contract for BB, the only other revenue generating sport. This puts them at a significant advantage financially than any other school in the MWC. I have to say, as a fan of SDSU, I hate the fact that Boise St, gets $5.5M versus our $4M for something they did 10 years ago. I don't want to be in a conference with any team like UO or UW that has a huge financial advantage over us that would "hold their nose" every time they had to play us. If the BIG doesn't want their OLY sports neither do we. Big West would likely say the same for the same reason stated.
09-12-2022 08:04 PM
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Post: #285
RE: Canzano’s odds on PAC expansion candidates
(09-12-2022 03:37 PM)RUScarlets Wrote:  
(09-12-2022 03:20 PM)Aztecgolfer Wrote:  Zags? Sure. But why would the MWC teams vote in Ore and Wash who would have a huge financial advantage due to their media contract with the BIG while not providing much, if any, increase in the MWC media contract?

I don't know what the BBall shares are in the MWC. If UO and UW allocate more from the football revenue, then yeah, it's a major competitive advantage for two above average BBall programs historically. But it could help lure Zaga by having rivals in such proximity. I mean that's four immediate rivals in the PNW where MWC has no presence, with 2/5 playing football. It should warrant an increase in the per school payouts. Theoretically, MWC could make UO and UW operate Olympics at a perpetual margin deficit, because those schools would need the MWC more than the MWC would need them. Also, the MWC could mandate Civil War and Apple Cup be protected OOC to get rights to 1/2 of those games a year involving UO/UW. Crazy, unlikely scenario, so I'll move on.

Anyhow, it's getting more and more unlikely we see a deal. There are just too many stumbling blocks, both with B1G expansion and Big 12/PAC 12 setups. I don't see a 10 million dollar difference there. If we do hear anything, it will be just after the season ends, in time for 24' play.

I have SDSU and UNLV going, but I'd like to see the PAC try to land Hawaii/Zaga. SMU is also the strongly rumored one, but I think it's a horrible fit. Hard pass there.

I like the Hawaii/Gonzaga combination, but in the MWC. Besides OR and WA, I think the NW schools will end up there.

B12 should just lock down SMU and USF, to stop the speculation and reduce choices for the PAC and ACC.

And if they're going for PAC schools, grab SDSU, and Rice, now. Gets the SoCal region and another AAU school. Both of which help to attract PAC schools.

Adding those 4 schools could very well get them the 4C schools, earlier than later.
(This post was last modified: 09-12-2022 08:18 PM by Skyhawk.)
09-12-2022 08:05 PM
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Aztecgolfer Offline
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Post: #286
RE: Canzano’s odds on PAC expansion candidates
(09-12-2022 03:37 PM)RUScarlets Wrote:  
(09-12-2022 03:20 PM)Aztecgolfer Wrote:  Zags? Sure. But why would the MWC teams vote in Ore and Wash who would have a huge financial advantage due to their media contract with the BIG while not providing much, if any, increase in the MWC media contract?

I don't know what the BBall shares are in the MWC. If UO and UW allocate more from the football revenue, then yeah, it's a major competitive advantage for two above average BBall programs historically. But it could help lure Zaga by having rivals in such proximity. I mean that's four immediate rivals in the PNW where MWC has no presence, with 2/5 playing football. It should warrant an increase in the per school payouts. Theoretically, MWC could make UO and UW operate Olympics at a perpetual margin deficit, because those schools would need the MWC more than the MWC would need them. Also, the MWC could mandate Civil War and Apple Cup be protected OOC to get rights to 1/2 of those games a year involving UO/UW. Crazy, unlikely scenario, so I'll move on.

Anyhow, it's getting more and more unlikely we see a deal. There are just too many stumbling blocks, both with B1G expansion and Big 12/PAC 12 setups. I don't see a 10 million dollar difference there. If we do hear anything, it will be just after the season ends, in time for 24' play.

I have SDSU and UNLV going, but I'd like to see the PAC try to land Hawaii/Zaga. SMU is also the strongly rumored one, but I think it's a horrible fit. Hard pass there.

SMU only makes sense as football only, paired with Gonzaga. I do think the pairing of Hawaii and Gonzaga makes more sense however.
09-12-2022 08:06 PM
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Aztecgolfer Offline
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RE: Canzano’s odds on PAC expansion candidates
(09-12-2022 08:05 PM)Skyhawk Wrote:  
(09-12-2022 03:37 PM)RUScarlets Wrote:  
(09-12-2022 03:20 PM)Aztecgolfer Wrote:  Zags? Sure. But why would the MWC teams vote in Ore and Wash who would have a huge financial advantage due to their media contract with the BIG while not providing much, if any, increase in the MWC media contract?

I don't know what the BBall shares are in the MWC. If UO and UW allocate more from the football revenue, then yeah, it's a major competitive advantage for two above average BBall programs historically. But it could help lure Zaga by having rivals in such proximity. I mean that's four immediate rivals in the PNW where MWC has no presence, with 2/5 playing football. It should warrant an increase in the per school payouts. Theoretically, MWC could make UO and UW operate Olympics at a perpetual margin deficit, because those schools would need the MWC more than the MWC would need them. Also, the MWC could mandate Civil War and Apple Cup be protected OOC to get rights to 1/2 of those games a year involving UO/UW. Crazy, unlikely scenario, so I'll move on.

Anyhow, it's getting more and more unlikely we see a deal. There are just too many stumbling blocks, both with B1G expansion and Big 12/PAC 12 setups. I don't see a 10 million dollar difference there. If we do hear anything, it will be just after the season ends, in time for 24' play.

I have SDSU and UNLV going, but I'd like to see the PAC try to land Hawaii/Zaga. SMU is also the strongly rumored one, but I think it's a horrible fit. Hard pass there.

I like the Hawaii/Gonzaga combination, but in the MWC. Besides OR and WA, I think the NW schools will end up there.

B12 should just lock down SMU and USF, to stop the speculation and reduce choices for the PAC and ACC.

And if they're going for PAC schools, grab SDSU, and Rice, now. Gets the SoCal region and another AAU school. Both of which help to attract PAC schools.

Adding those 4 schools could very well get them the 4C schools, earlier than later.

Gonzaga sets their terms in the WCC. They leveraged a threat to going to the MWC to get that. That was pretty much a lateral move, maybe a bit of an upgrade but they would have lost their dictatorial powers they have in the WCC. There is no way in hell they would make that move to the MWC now considering the threat that, at least, SDSU may leave. They might, perhaps, consider a move to the PAC if the 10 teams decide to stay as part of adding SDSU and another, football only school.
(This post was last modified: 09-12-2022 08:15 PM by Aztecgolfer.)
09-12-2022 08:14 PM
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RUScarlets Offline
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RE: Canzano’s odds on PAC expansion candidates
(09-12-2022 08:04 PM)Aztecgolfer Wrote:  Basketball doesn't drive the bus. Both UO and OW would come in making many times that of the average MWC team at $4M. They would not bring anything substantial to our media contract for BB, the only other revenue generating sport. This puts them at a significant advantage financially than any other school in the MWC. I have to say, as a fan of SDSU, I hate the fact that Boise St, gets $5.5M versus our $4M for something they did 10 years ago. I don't want to be in a conference with any team like UO or UW that has a huge financial advantage over us that would "hold their nose" every time they had to play us. If the BIG doesn't want their OLY sports neither do we. Big West would likely say the same for the same reason stated.

You are probably right about all of this, certainly from a competitive standpoint, but UO Zaga UW does give the conference exposure it would otherwise not get. No more NBA in Seattle after all. You could make a good argument UO and UW can come in at full shares to the B1G strictly from a football %. How about paying a luxury tax to play in the MWC for BBall? There are ways to do it. It just makes a lot more sense logistically for the B1G to take only UO and UW football. I know the B1G doesn't traditionally operate that way, yada yada... but this would maximize every dollar at least for eight years. There could be an opt-in as part time members for both conferences at the end of the next TV cycle.
(This post was last modified: 09-12-2022 08:19 PM by RUScarlets.)
09-12-2022 08:17 PM
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Post: #289
RE: Canzano’s odds on PAC expansion candidates
(09-12-2022 08:14 PM)Aztecgolfer Wrote:  
(09-12-2022 08:05 PM)Skyhawk Wrote:  
(09-12-2022 03:37 PM)RUScarlets Wrote:  
(09-12-2022 03:20 PM)Aztecgolfer Wrote:  Zags? Sure. But why would the MWC teams vote in Ore and Wash who would have a huge financial advantage due to their media contract with the BIG while not providing much, if any, increase in the MWC media contract?

I don't know what the BBall shares are in the MWC. If UO and UW allocate more from the football revenue, then yeah, it's a major competitive advantage for two above average BBall programs historically. But it could help lure Zaga by having rivals in such proximity. I mean that's four immediate rivals in the PNW where MWC has no presence, with 2/5 playing football. It should warrant an increase in the per school payouts. Theoretically, MWC could make UO and UW operate Olympics at a perpetual margin deficit, because those schools would need the MWC more than the MWC would need them. Also, the MWC could mandate Civil War and Apple Cup be protected OOC to get rights to 1/2 of those games a year involving UO/UW. Crazy, unlikely scenario, so I'll move on.

Anyhow, it's getting more and more unlikely we see a deal. There are just too many stumbling blocks, both with B1G expansion and Big 12/PAC 12 setups. I don't see a 10 million dollar difference there. If we do hear anything, it will be just after the season ends, in time for 24' play.

I have SDSU and UNLV going, but I'd like to see the PAC try to land Hawaii/Zaga. SMU is also the strongly rumored one, but I think it's a horrible fit. Hard pass there.

I like the Hawaii/Gonzaga combination, but in the MWC. Besides OR and WA, I think the NW schools will end up there.

B12 should just lock down SMU and USF, to stop the speculation and reduce choices for the PAC and ACC.

And if they're going for PAC schools, grab SDSU, and Rice, now. Gets the SoCal region and another AAU school. Both of which help to attract PAC schools.

Adding those 4 schools could very well get them the 4C schools, earlier than later.

Gonzaga sets their terms in the WCC. They leveraged a threat to going to the MWC to get that. That was pretty much a lateral move, maybe a bit of an upgrade but they would have lost their dictatorial powers they have in the WCC. There is no way in hell they would make that move to the MWC now considering the threat that, at least, SDSU may leave. They might, perhaps, consider a move to the PAC if the 10 teams decide to stay as part of adding SDSU and another, football only school.

Fair point - struck that part : )

I keep looking at the map and wondering what a NW conference organized by OR and WA might look like. Schools from OR, WA, ID, maybe NV, UT, and/or maybe Northern Cal.

Interesting idea.
09-12-2022 08:23 PM
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Pony94 Offline
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Canzano’s odds on PAC expansion candidates
(09-12-2022 07:19 PM)RUScarlets Wrote:  
(09-12-2022 05:05 PM)Pony94 Wrote:  SMU a bad fit in the PAC 12 like Rutgers in the Big 10?

Hope you guys make it. But if you're modeling that move based on Rutgers, then God help that administration.


I wasn’t trying to put Rutgers down, I was just implying that you took the first life raft out like we want to although yours is far superior
09-12-2022 08:33 PM
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RE: Canzano’s odds on PAC expansion candidates
(09-12-2022 08:07 AM)RUScarlets Wrote:  Speaking of travel, I wonder how feasible it would be if UO and UW joined the B1G as FO ...

Totally not feasible. It takes two to tango, and the Big Ten would not offer a football only spot to them, and would not accept the application if made.
09-12-2022 09:02 PM
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RE: Canzano’s odds on PAC expansion candidates
(09-12-2022 08:17 PM)RUScarlets Wrote:  
(09-12-2022 08:04 PM)Aztecgolfer Wrote:  Basketball doesn't drive the bus. Both UO and OW would come in making many times that of the average MWC team at $4M. They would not bring anything substantial to our media contract for BB, the only other revenue generating sport. This puts them at a significant advantage financially than any other school in the MWC. I have to say, as a fan of SDSU, I hate the fact that Boise St, gets $5.5M versus our $4M for something they did 10 years ago. I don't want to be in a conference with any team like UO or UW that has a huge financial advantage over us that would "hold their nose" every time they had to play us. If the BIG doesn't want their OLY sports neither do we. Big West would likely say the same for the same reason stated.

You are probably right about all of this, certainly from a competitive standpoint, but UO Zaga UW does give the conference exposure it would otherwise not get. No more NBA in Seattle after all. You could make a good argument UO and UW can come in at full shares to the B1G strictly from a football %. How about paying a luxury tax to play in the MWC for BBall? There are ways to do it. It just makes a lot more sense logistically for the B1G to take only UO and UW football. I know the B1G doesn't traditionally operate that way, yada yada... but this would maximize every dollar at least for eight years. There could be an opt-in as part time members for both conferences at the end of the next TV cycle.

Well, I do think that if any remaining PAC teams get a BIG invite it would be for all schools. It would help with the travel for USC and UCLA. I do think the BIG is done expanding for now unless ND decides to jump..
09-13-2022 11:04 AM
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RE: Canzano’s odds on PAC expansion candidates
(09-12-2022 03:37 PM)RUScarlets Wrote:  
(09-12-2022 03:20 PM)Aztecgolfer Wrote:  Zags? Sure. But why would the MWC teams vote in Ore and Wash who would have a huge financial advantage due to their media contract with the BIG while not providing much, if any, increase in the MWC media contract?

I don't know what the BBall shares are in the MWC. If UO and UW allocate more from the football revenue, then yeah, it's a major competitive advantage for two above average BBall programs historically. But it could help lure Zaga by having rivals in such proximity. I mean that's four immediate rivals in the PNW where MWC has no presence, with 2/5 playing football. It should warrant an increase in the per school payouts. Theoretically, MWC could make UO and UW operate Olympics at a perpetual margin deficit, because those schools would need the MWC more than the MWC would need them. Also, the MWC could mandate Civil War and Apple Cup be protected OOC to get rights to 1/2 of those games a year involving UO/UW. Crazy, unlikely scenario, so I'll move on.

Anyhow, it's getting more and more unlikely we see a deal. There are just too many stumbling blocks, both with B1G expansion and Big 12/PAC 12 setups. I don't see a 10 million dollar difference there. If we do hear anything, it will be just after the season ends, in time for 24' play.

I have SDSU and UNLV going, but I'd like to see the PAC try to land Hawaii/Zaga. SMU is also the strongly rumored one, but I think it's a horrible fit. Hard pass there.



I will be very surprised if the MWC allows Oregon and Washington to park their non-football sports in the conference. You must not be aware of the Virginia Tech/Louisville feud where the Big East only allowed Virginia Tech football into the conference, and Louisville then kicked Virginia Tech’s non-football sports out of the Metro because they wouldn’t play football in the soon to be formed Conference USA. (PS Va Tech also hates WVU and Rutgers for reneging on a deal WVU, Va Tech, Rutgers and Temple supposedly made where they’d refuse all-sports invites from the Big East unless all four were invited.)

I think the Big West would be a far more likely destination for Oregon and Washington’s other sports since it’s not an FBS conference.
09-13-2022 11:35 AM
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RE: Canzano’s odds on PAC expansion candidates
(09-12-2022 09:02 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(09-12-2022 08:07 AM)RUScarlets Wrote:  Speaking of travel, I wonder how feasible it would be if UO and UW joined the B1G as FO ...

Totally not feasible. It takes two to tango, and the Big Ten would not offer a football only spot to them, and would not accept the application if made.


I think the more likely possibility is that the Big Ten only takes Oregon and Washington’s football and basketball teams. I agree that it’s pretty unlikely that they’ll take their football teams but not their basketball teams. (Although never says never, I guess.)


I think there’s a pretty good chance the Big Ten would force Oregon and Washington to park their women’s volleyball teams in the Big West.
09-13-2022 11:38 AM
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RE: Canzano’s odds on PAC expansion candidates
Would adding the following teams be viable in adding TV money to the PAC expansion?

Nebraska
Kansas
Kansas St
Oklahoma St
Baylor
Texas Tech
09-13-2022 12:11 PM
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RE: Canzano’s odds on PAC expansion candidates
(09-13-2022 11:38 AM)Poster Wrote:  
(09-12-2022 09:02 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(09-12-2022 08:07 AM)RUScarlets Wrote:  Speaking of travel, I wonder how feasible it would be if UO and UW joined the B1G as FO ...

Totally not feasible. It takes two to tango, and the Big Ten would not offer a football only spot to them, and would not accept the application if made.


I think the more likely possibility is that the Big Ten only takes Oregon and Washington’s football and basketball teams.

A Big Ten member is going to play in sports the Big Ten sponsors. Washington Indoor T&F would join the Big Ten. Washington won't have men's rowing in the Big Ten.

Quote: I agree that it’s pretty unlikely that they’ll take their football teams but not their basketball teams. (Although never says never, I guess.)

Well, don't say never. Under a future Super College Football structure where Olympic Sports other than Basketball are in their own distinct regional conferences, then yeah, in the case that everyone in the Big Ten Football and Basketball are playing those two sports in one conference, and all of the other sports are in a different conference, then it could happen.

Otherwise not.

Quote: I think there’s a pretty good chance the Big Ten would force Oregon and Washington to park their women’s volleyball teams in the Big West.

No, Big Ten sponsors women's volleyball, USC/UCLA and if two adds, both adds are playing Big Ten volleyball. USC is playing women's lacrosse in the Big Ten.

These are ideas proposed at CSNBBS in response to someone saying some wild realignment scenario and someone else objecting that the non-revenue sports will cost too much, and so the original proponent invents the commonly used system of only joining for Football & Basketball.
09-13-2022 05:16 PM
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