(08-29-2022 06:13 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-29-2022 06:06 AM)schmolik Wrote:  

(08-29-2022 05:56 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-28-2022 02:40 PM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(08-28-2022 08:33 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  I’d love to see Kansas join the SEC. If basketball ever can separate from NCAA like football has and programs can be valued independently, the SEC should go full basketball and add Duke, Kansas, Louisville, and North Carolina. Followed by Clemson, Florida St, Virginia, and either Georgia Tech or Miami.

Logically, I think the SEC takes 7 from the ACC plus Kansas.

Knowing that the B10 wants some of these, let's look at the ones that the B10 is less likely to want:

Clemson
VA tech
NC state

For the next ones, it really kinda depends on who gets FSU and NC.

Let's say the Big10 and SEC split those - SEC gets FSU and B10 gets NC.

The next 4 are: VA, Duke, GA tech, and Miami.

If B10 gets NC, then they are more likely to go for Duke and VA, and the SEC locks up the southeast by getting Miami and GA tech.

And then the SEC can add Louisville (or OK state) for 7.

So the SEC adds:
Clemson
VA tech
NC state
FSU
Miami
GA tech
Louisville (or OK state)
Kansas

The B10 adds:
VA
NC
Duke

Which leaves the B10 room for 5 PAC schools.
WA
OR
Stanford
Arizona state
Colorado (or Cal)

B12 takes most of the rest of the ACC and PAC schools (with a few going to G5), and this round of realignment is over.

IMO, that division between the B1G and SEC gives much more valuable schools to the B1G. If I was the SEC, I would say "no thanks" to all of the listed schools under the SEC rubric save for Clemson and FSU.

In contrast, IMO the B1G would be getting several valuable schools - UNC, Duke, UVA, Stanford, Washington and Oregon.

IMO, the SEC should want to add UNC, UVA, FSU and Clemson, and that's it.

There is nothing stopping the SEC from taking Washington, Oregon, and Stanford. Do the Big Ten a favor and save us from miles of travel.

IMO, those schools are too far-afield for the SEC, even though they are valuable. If the B1G doesn't want them either, then the PAC stays intact and then the B1G and SEC battle for the cream of the ACC.

which, I think, is what I listed. lol

And it'll happen regardless of anything regarding the PAC

It's clear the both conferences are going to go after certain schools.

Saying that the B10 gets first pick would be as nonsensical as suggesting the SEC gets first pick.

I suggested a semi-calm negotiated result above. What's more likely is a messy bunch of invites and demands and negotiations.

(08-27-2022 10:16 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(08-24-2022 03:10 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-24-2022 02:49 PM)AzonTheKid Wrote:  

(08-24-2022 02:32 PM)PlayBall! Wrote:  I told a few people, and maybe on here too, way back when, that MU would lose its way if it separated from KU. So having us back together, in any conference, will benefit MU greatly ("the sum is greater than its parts").

And with as many others from the old Big 8 too, if possible.

I feel that both schools are better together. We need that hate to fuel us and our admins.

I have felt that throughout realignment that schools only bring their full economic potential when they are joined by those schools which have helped to define them.

Arkansas suffered early on in the SEC as did South Carolina because they were orphans. A&M's inclusion helped Arkansas. Texas and Oklahoma's inclusion was made possible by Arkansas and A&M but it helps all of their value to have the history of each other. Oklahoma will help Missouri which has also been essentially orphaned. Add Kansas to that mix and you quicken the value of all regionally and as a strong region the value of the SEC.

IMO, this is why UCLA and USC only reach full value with Oregon, Washington, Stanford and perhaps Cal. They have a synergy more valuable than its parts. The Big 10 gets a strong region with that 6. Maryland is still an orphan and Rutgers to some extent as well. Add Syracuse, and Pittsburgh and it may quicken the New England audience for college football. Right now they simply feel butchered.

South Carolina would be a major beneficiary of North Carolina, Clemson, Virginia Tech, Florida State, Georgia Tech, N.C. State, or Miami. The SEC needs enough to the East to have regional synergy. Tennessee can help, and possibly Kentucky, but history is lacking beyond the old So Con years.

If the networks want a Super Two to work, even with a third conference, then maintaining history, traditions, rivalries and regional feel are essential. Otherwise, a great concept will collapse due to a fundamental misunderstanding of what made it loved and great!

100% agree. However, Kansas is as much a rival to Missouri in Football as Yale is to Alabama. All of the others you mentioned are strong now in football or have been relatively recently. Kansas is ranked nice every 10-15 years. They’ve only made 6 bowls in 40 years. The only rival Kansas has in the SEC that they beat with any regularity is texas.

You have to be joking right? This clearly shows you don't know what you're talking about with regards to those two universities. The record is close to 50-50 and they were our rival in football and basketball.

(08-29-2022 06:06 AM)schmolik Wrote:  

(08-29-2022 05:56 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-28-2022 02:40 PM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(08-28-2022 08:33 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  I’d love to see Kansas join the SEC. If basketball ever can separate from NCAA like football has and programs can be valued independently, the SEC should go full basketball and add Duke, Kansas, Louisville, and North Carolina. Followed by Clemson, Florida St, Virginia, and either Georgia Tech or Miami.

Logically, I think the SEC takes 7 from the ACC plus Kansas.

Knowing that the B10 wants some of these, let's look at the ones that the B10 is less likely to want:

Clemson
VA tech
NC state

For the next ones, it really kinda depends on who gets FSU and NC.

Let's say the Big10 and SEC split those - SEC gets FSU and B10 gets NC.

The next 4 are: VA, Duke, GA tech, and Miami.

If B10 gets NC, then they are more likely to go for Duke and VA, and the SEC locks up the southeast by getting Miami and GA tech.

And then the SEC can add Louisville (or OK state) for 7.

So the SEC adds:
Clemson
VA tech
NC state
FSU
Miami
GA tech
Louisville (or OK state)
Kansas

The B10 adds:
VA
NC
Duke

Which leaves the B10 room for 5 PAC schools.
WA
OR
Stanford
Arizona state
Colorado (or Cal)

B12 takes most of the rest of the ACC and PAC schools (with a few going to G5), and this round of realignment is over.

IMO, that division between the B1G and SEC gives much more valuable schools to the B1G. If I was the SEC, I would say "no thanks" to all of the listed schools under the SEC rubric save for Clemson and FSU.

In contrast, IMO the B1G would be getting several valuable schools - UNC, Duke, UVA, Stanford, Washington and Oregon.

IMO, the SEC should want to add UNC, UVA, FSU and Clemson, and that's it.

There is nothing stopping the SEC from taking Washington, Oregon, and Stanford. Do the Big Ten a favor and save us from miles of travel.

While as an Oregon fan, I would love to see the Ducks in the SEC. However, culturally the Ducks don't fit in the SEC. UNC fits in culturally, Duke, believe it or not, does not. Neither does UVA.

In addition, I don't think that the SEC really wants UVA, and I don't think UVA really wants the SEC. That was why I told Skyhawk swap Miami & UNC. Miami culturally doesn't really fit in the SEC, and would give the B1G exposure in Florida. SEC would get 3 AAU schools, B1G would get 5 AAU schools (still uneven, but better than before), and I could live with that.

(08-29-2022 07:21 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(08-29-2022 06:06 AM)schmolik Wrote:  

(08-29-2022 05:56 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(08-28-2022 02:40 PM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(08-28-2022 08:33 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  I’d love to see Kansas join the SEC. If basketball ever can separate from NCAA like football has and programs can be valued independently, the SEC should go full basketball and add Duke, Kansas, Louisville, and North Carolina. Followed by Clemson, Florida St, Virginia, and either Georgia Tech or Miami.

Logically, I think the SEC takes 7 from the ACC plus Kansas.

Knowing that the B10 wants some of these, let's look at the ones that the B10 is less likely to want:

Clemson
VA tech
NC state

For the next ones, it really kinda depends on who gets FSU and NC.

Let's say the Big10 and SEC split those - SEC gets FSU and B10 gets NC.

The next 4 are: VA, Duke, GA tech, and Miami.

If B10 gets NC, then they are more likely to go for Duke and VA, and the SEC locks up the southeast by getting Miami and GA tech.

And then the SEC can add Louisville (or OK state) for 7.

So the SEC adds:
Clemson
VA tech
NC state
FSU
Miami
GA tech
Louisville (or OK state)
Kansas

The B10 adds:
VA
NC
Duke

Which leaves the B10 room for 5 PAC schools.
WA
OR
Stanford
Arizona state
Colorado (or Cal)

B12 takes most of the rest of the ACC and PAC schools (with a few going to G5), and this round of realignment is over.

IMO, that division between the B1G and SEC gives much more valuable schools to the B1G. If I was the SEC, I would say "no thanks" to all of the listed schools under the SEC rubric save for Clemson and FSU.

In contrast, IMO the B1G would be getting several valuable schools - UNC, Duke, UVA, Stanford, Washington and Oregon.

IMO, the SEC should want to add UNC, UVA, FSU and Clemson, and that's it.

There is nothing stopping the SEC from taking Washington, Oregon, and Stanford. Do the Big Ten a favor and save us from miles of travel.

While as an Oregon fan, I would love to see the Ducks in the SEC. However, culturally the Ducks don't fit in the SEC. UNC fits in culturally, Duke, believe it or not, does not. Neither does UVA.

In addition, I don't think that the SEC really wants UVA, and I don't think UVA really wants the SEC. That was why I told Skyhawk swap Miami & UNC. Miami culturally doesn't really fit in the SEC, and would give the B1G exposure in Florida. SEC would get 3 AAU schools, B1G would get 5 AAU schools (still uneven, but better than before), and I could live with that.

I don't think Miami gets added to the B10 without either FSU or GA tech as a travel partner. And when I look at their rivals and game history, I'm starting to get doubtful on both.

I also don't think the B10 would add both Miami (and partner) and (OR and WA). And so, since the PAC schools are available now, and ACC schools later, I'm doubting Miami gets an invite. But it's of course possible. Miami could very well find itself in the B12 when all is said and done.

All that aside, I wonder about Duke - you seem to think they could join the B10 without NC. I'm just not sure about that.

But anyway, if the SEC only takes 4, I think they will add:

Clemson
NC state

And FSU is likely if they can, and NC is less likely. But VA tech is an option instead. (And possibly Miami and/or GT.)


B10's likely options from ACC is 1, 2, 3, or 5 - Some combination of:

VA

NC and Duke

2 of FSU/Miami/GT

(08-27-2022 10:16 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(08-24-2022 03:10 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-24-2022 02:49 PM)AzonTheKid Wrote:  

(08-24-2022 02:32 PM)PlayBall! Wrote:  I told a few people, and maybe on here too, way back when, that MU would lose its way if it separated from KU. So having us back together, in any conference, will benefit MU greatly ("the sum is greater than its parts").

And with as many others from the old Big 8 too, if possible.

I feel that both schools are better together. We need that hate to fuel us and our admins.

I have felt that throughout realignment that schools only bring their full economic potential when they are joined by those schools which have helped to define them.

Arkansas suffered early on in the SEC as did South Carolina because they were orphans. A&M's inclusion helped Arkansas. Texas and Oklahoma's inclusion was made possible by Arkansas and A&M but it helps all of their value to have the history of each other. Oklahoma will help Missouri which has also been essentially orphaned. Add Kansas to that mix and you quicken the value of all regionally and as a strong region the value of the SEC.

IMO, this is why UCLA and USC only reach full value with Oregon, Washington, Stanford and perhaps Cal. They have a synergy more valuable than its parts. The Big 10 gets a strong region with that 6. Maryland is still an orphan and Rutgers to some extent as well. Add Syracuse, and Pittsburgh and it may quicken the New England audience for college football. Right now they simply feel butchered.

South Carolina would be a major beneficiary of North Carolina, Clemson, Virginia Tech, Florida State, Georgia Tech, N.C. State, or Miami. The SEC needs enough to the East to have regional synergy. Tennessee can help, and possibly Kentucky, but history is lacking beyond the old So Con years.

If the networks want a Super Two to work, even with a third conference, then maintaining history, traditions, rivalries and regional feel are essential. Otherwise, a great concept will collapse due to a fundamental misunderstanding of what made it loved and great!

100% agree. However, Kansas is as much a rival to Missouri in Football as Yale is to Alabama. All of the others you mentioned are strong now in football or have been relatively recently. Kansas is ranked nice every 10-15 years. They’ve only made 6 bowls in 40 years. The only rival Kansas has in the SEC that they beat with any regularity is texas.

Actually, historically in football, Kansas-Missouri has been close overall; Missouri is ahead because of the last few years of the rivalry and, as I mentioned in another thread, the Kansas victory that was forfeited about 60 years ago. In basketball, Kansas does not have a long-term historical conference rival that is equal in strength (as in UNC-Duke) and, therefore, views its rivals as the other bluebloods, Kentucky, UNC, Duke, primarily; Kansas is ahead of Missouri by something like 173-95 and is also well ahead of Kansas State, although the record was much closer until Larry Brown and Roy Williams got to Lawrence.

(09-20-2022 03:49 PM)EdwordL Wrote:  

(08-27-2022 10:16 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(08-24-2022 03:10 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-24-2022 02:49 PM)AzonTheKid Wrote:  

(08-24-2022 02:32 PM)PlayBall! Wrote:  I told a few people, and maybe on here too, way back when, that MU would lose its way if it separated from KU. So having us back together, in any conference, will benefit MU greatly ("the sum is greater than its parts").

And with as many others from the old Big 8 too, if possible.

I feel that both schools are better together. We need that hate to fuel us and our admins.

I have felt that throughout realignment that schools only bring their full economic potential when they are joined by those schools which have helped to define them.

Arkansas suffered early on in the SEC as did South Carolina because they were orphans. A&M's inclusion helped Arkansas. Texas and Oklahoma's inclusion was made possible by Arkansas and A&M but it helps all of their value to have the history of each other. Oklahoma will help Missouri which has also been essentially orphaned. Add Kansas to that mix and you quicken the value of all regionally and as a strong region the value of the SEC.

IMO, this is why UCLA and USC only reach full value with Oregon, Washington, Stanford and perhaps Cal. They have a synergy more valuable than its parts. The Big 10 gets a strong region with that 6. Maryland is still an orphan and Rutgers to some extent as well. Add Syracuse, and Pittsburgh and it may quicken the New England audience for college football. Right now they simply feel butchered.

South Carolina would be a major beneficiary of North Carolina, Clemson, Virginia Tech, Florida State, Georgia Tech, N.C. State, or Miami. The SEC needs enough to the East to have regional synergy. Tennessee can help, and possibly Kentucky, but history is lacking beyond the old So Con years.

If the networks want a Super Two to work, even with a third conference, then maintaining history, traditions, rivalries and regional feel are essential. Otherwise, a great concept will collapse due to a fundamental misunderstanding of what made it loved and great!

100% agree. However, Kansas is as much a rival to Missouri in Football as Yale is to Alabama. All of the others you mentioned are strong now in football or have been relatively recently. Kansas is ranked nice every 10-15 years. They’ve only made 6 bowls in 40 years. The only rival Kansas has in the SEC that they beat with any regularity is texas.

Actually, historically in football, Kansas-Missouri has been close overall; Missouri is ahead because of the last few years of the rivalry and, as I mentioned in another thread, the Kansas victory that was forfeited about 60 years ago. In basketball, Kansas does not have a long-term historical conference rival that is equal in strength (as in UNC-Duke) and, therefore, views its rivals as the other bluebloods, Kentucky, UNC, Duke, primarily; Kansas is ahead of Missouri by something like 173-95 and is also well ahead of Kansas State, although the record was much closer until Larry Brown and Roy Williams got to Lawrence.

Wouldn't it be fun if the B10 added 4 basketball powers as their next picks.

KS-MO, NC-Duke.

Conferences are no longer athletic entities, but rather business enterprises.
The B1G has presence in the middle of the US, the East coast and now the Pacific coast. The only direction for them to expand is South (and Missouri is not "south enough" to fulfill that move).

The SEC has a real dilemma. As the other P2 conference they are regionalized whereas the B1G is national. The only real "brands" left are in the ACC. The B1G has given the SEC no place to go to be "national" in scope.
This is why some SEC posters keep pushing for 24 team conferences, so that the SEC can at least create the illusion that they, too, are a national conference, just like the B1G.

Missouri should be happy where they are, be quiet and hope nobody notices they they are collecting the same amount of money as Alabama.

(09-21-2022 05:09 AM)XLance Wrote:  Conferences are no longer athletic entities, but rather business enterprises.
The B1G has presence in the middle of the US, the East coast and now the Pacific coast. The only direction for them to expand is South (and Missouri is not "south enough" to fulfill that move).

The SEC has a real dilemma. As the other P2 conference they are regionalized whereas the B1G is national. The only real "brands" left are in the ACC. The B1G has given the SEC no place to go to be "national" in scope.
This is why some SEC posters keep pushing for 24 team conferences, so that the SEC can at least create the illusion that they, too, are a national conference, just like the B1G.

Missouri should be happy where they are, be quiet and hope nobody notices they they are collection the same amount of money as Alabama.

I think this is why so many on this forum are impatient (for lack of a better word) for the ACC GoR to go away.

Most seem to think that the SEC's best expansion options are from there.

And with the possible exception of Kansas, I think I might agree.

Clemson is likely added regardless of other schools.

But the SEC's next choices really seem to hinge on what FSU and NC decide to do.

I think the SEC likely can get FSU.

But NC is definitely a question mark.

NC and NC state would presumably be the next 2 choices.

But I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they stayed in the ACC and kept it going instead.

If so, the next two choices then should also be done to slow B10 expansion in the south, besides other criteria.

So adding Kansas to join the rest of the former swc/b12 schools would seem like a great next choice. And would definitely be a boon to Missouri.

And adding GT (after adding FSU), pretty much would end B10 expansion into Florida - Miami would want a travel partner.

Based on all of that, I think this is the best next move for SEC moving forward.

SEC adds:
Clemson
FSU
GT
Kansas

If going to 24, then NC likely gives up on ACC, and joins SEC.

NC
NC State
VA Tech
VA or Miami

And the SEC has kept the B10 from going too deep in the south.

Leaving the B10 to maybe look at Duke, and otherwise, looking west to the PAC.

If the B10 wants into Florida, they're likely going to need to try to fight for FSU, or maybe to go after U of Florida. Neither seems very likely at the moment.

That said, if this happens:

SEC adds:
Clemson
FSU
NC
NC State

Then expect the B10 to try for GT and Miami. And Missouri - for various reasons - could very well convince the B10 to add them with Kansas.

And the B10 would continue to encroach on the southern US.

(09-21-2022 05:56 AM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(09-21-2022 05:09 AM)XLance Wrote:  Conferences are no longer athletic entities, but rather business enterprises.
The B1G has presence in the middle of the US, the East coast and now the Pacific coast. The only direction for them to expand is South (and Missouri is not "south enough" to fulfill that move).

The SEC has a real dilemma. As the other P2 conference they are regionalized whereas the B1G is national. The only real "brands" left are in the ACC. The B1G has given the SEC no place to go to be "national" in scope.
This is why some SEC posters keep pushing for 24 team conferences, so that the SEC can at least create the illusion that they, too, are a national conference, just like the B1G.

Missouri should be happy where they are, be quiet and hope nobody notices they they are collection the same amount of money as Alabama.

I think this is why so many on this forum are impatient (for lack of a better word) for the ACC GoR to go away.

Most seem to think that the SEC's best expansion options are from there.

And with the possible exception of Kansas, I think I might agree.

Clemson is likely added regardless of other schools.

But the SEC's next choices really seem to hinge on what FSU and NC decide to do.

I think the SEC likely can get FSU.

But NC is definitely a question mark.

NC and NC state would presumably be the next 2 choices.

But I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they stayed in the ACC and kept it going instead.

If so, the next two choices then should also be done to slow B10 expansion in the south, besides other criteria.

So adding Kansas to join the rest of the former swc/b12 schools would seem like a great next choice. And would definitely be a boon to Missouri.

And adding GT (after adding FSU), pretty much would end B10 expansion into Florida - Miami would want a travel partner.

Based on all of that, I think this is the best next move for SEC moving forward.

SEC adds:
Clemson
FSU
GT
Kansas

If going to 24, then NC likely gives up on ACC, and joins SEC.

NC
NC State
VA Tech
VA or Miami

And the SEC has kept the B10 from going too deep in the south.

Leaving the B10 to maybe look at Duke, and otherwise, looking west to the PAC.

If the B10 wants into Florida, they're likely going to need to try to fight for FSU, or maybe to go after U of Florida. Neither seems very likely at the moment.

That said, if this happens:

SEC adds:
Clemson
FSU
NC
NC State

Then expect the B10 to try for GT and Miami. And Missouri - for various reasons - could very well convince the B10 to add them with Kansas.

And the B10 would continue to encroach on the southern US.

The SEC does not need any other "southern" teams. That conference need to find a presence outside of the South to be able to compete with the B1G on a long term basis.

(09-21-2022 07:38 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(09-21-2022 05:56 AM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(09-21-2022 05:09 AM)XLance Wrote:  Conferences are no longer athletic entities, but rather business enterprises.
The B1G has presence in the middle of the US, the East coast and now the Pacific coast. The only direction for them to expand is South (and Missouri is not "south enough" to fulfill that move).

The SEC has a real dilemma. As the other P2 conference they are regionalized whereas the B1G is national. The only real "brands" left are in the ACC. The B1G has given the SEC no place to go to be "national" in scope.
This is why some SEC posters keep pushing for 24 team conferences, so that the SEC can at least create the illusion that they, too, are a national conference, just like the B1G.

Missouri should be happy where they are, be quiet and hope nobody notices they they are collection the same amount of money as Alabama.

I think this is why so many on this forum are impatient (for lack of a better word) for the ACC GoR to go away.

Most seem to think that the SEC's best expansion options are from there.

And with the possible exception of Kansas, I think I might agree.

Clemson is likely added regardless of other schools.

But the SEC's next choices really seem to hinge on what FSU and NC decide to do.

I think the SEC likely can get FSU.

But NC is definitely a question mark.

NC and NC state would presumably be the next 2 choices.

But I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they stayed in the ACC and kept it going instead.

If so, the next two choices then should also be done to slow B10 expansion in the south, besides other criteria.

So adding Kansas to join the rest of the former swc/b12 schools would seem like a great next choice. And would definitely be a boon to Missouri.

And adding GT (after adding FSU), pretty much would end B10 expansion into Florida - Miami would want a travel partner.

Based on all of that, I think this is the best next move for SEC moving forward.

SEC adds:
Clemson
FSU
GT
Kansas

If going to 24, then NC likely gives up on ACC, and joins SEC.

NC
NC State
VA Tech
VA or Miami

And the SEC has kept the B10 from going too deep in the south.

Leaving the B10 to maybe look at Duke, and otherwise, looking west to the PAC.

If the B10 wants into Florida, they're likely going to need to try to fight for FSU, or maybe to go after U of Florida. Neither seems very likely at the moment.

That said, if this happens:

SEC adds:
Clemson
FSU
NC
NC State

Then expect the B10 to try for GT and Miami. And Missouri - for various reasons - could very well convince the B10 to add them with Kansas.

And the B10 would continue to encroach on the southern US.

The SEC does not need any other "southern" teams. That conference need to find a presence outside of the South to be able to compete with the B1G on a long term basis.

Which particular schools do you think the SEC should be looking at?