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The MAC to add hockey?
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #21
RE: The MAC to add hockey?
Comment (in effect): "If single sports conferences as we presently know them do not survive the ongoing changes in the NCAA, then Miami is going to need a home. In that scenario, the best Plan B for Miami would be if the MAC sponsored hockey."

Online commentators: "It seems like this is a veiled hint that Miami wants to get out of the NCHC conference."
08-24-2022 04:32 PM
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TalonsUpPuckDown Offline
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Post: #22
RE: The MAC to add hockey?
(08-24-2022 04:32 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  Comment (in effect): "If single sports conferences as we presently know them do not survive the ongoing changes in the NCAA, then Miami is going to need a home. In that scenario, the best Plan B for Miami would be if the MAC sponsored hockey."

Online commentators: "It seems like this is a veiled hint that Miami wants to get out of the NCHC conference."

Veiled hint or cry for help?

Here's an article from back in 2020 talking about Miami wanting to get out of their current conference affiliation https://www.collegehockeynews.com/news/2...w-CCHA.php

The operative paragraph is below:
Quote:I've heard it from enough people over the last year or so — Miami wants to move. It can deny it publicly all it wants, but it's practically common knowledge at this point within college hockey's inner circles. Being in the NCHC is an expensive proposition for Miami, and even though its monumental on-ice success in the 2000s enabled the school to do a lot of big things, it still doesn't have the resources of the nearby Big Ten schools, for example. Miami wants to go, and is willing to pay the hefty NCHC exit fee to do it.
08-24-2022 07:59 PM
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Schadenfreude Offline
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Post: #23
RE: The MAC to add hockey?
(08-24-2022 07:59 PM)TalonsUpPuckDown Wrote:  Veiled hint or cry for help?

Exactly. Miami went 7-27-2 last season. They were 5-18-2 the year before and 8-21-5 the year before that. A change of scenery and a return to their roots could help.
08-24-2022 08:34 PM
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epasnoopy Online
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Post: #24
RE: The MAC to add hockey?
What caused Miami's tumble in hockey? I know they were very successful and had NHL draft picks.

I don't really follow hockey on any level but just curious.
08-24-2022 09:54 PM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #25
RE: The MAC to add hockey?
(08-24-2022 07:59 PM)TalonsUpPuckDown Wrote:  
(08-24-2022 04:32 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  Comment (in effect): "If single sports conferences as we presently know them do not survive the ongoing changes in the NCAA, then Miami is going to need a home. In that scenario, the best Plan B for Miami would be if the MAC sponsored hockey."

Online commentators: "It seems like this is a veiled hint that Miami wants to get out of the NCHC conference."

Veiled hint or cry for help? ...

It could even be that the Miami athletics department is especially aware of the looming issues for single sports conference precisely because they have been thinking through whether Miami should switch to a different hockey conference ...

... but the remarks themselves were still about the possibility that changes in the NCAA may make it harder to operate single sports conferences.

After all, right now everyone relies on the NCAA Tourney to cover a big part of compliance costs for all sports at all levels, where if the Power Schools no longer tolerate the NCAA taking the majority of March Madness revenue to cover its operating costs, and compliance costs get pushed off onto the individual conferences, the multi-sport conferences have a lot more scale economies in setting up their compliance infrastructure than the single sport conferences do.
08-25-2022 05:19 PM
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TalonsUpPuckDown Offline
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Post: #26
RE: The MAC to add hockey?
(08-25-2022 05:19 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(08-24-2022 07:59 PM)TalonsUpPuckDown Wrote:  
(08-24-2022 04:32 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  Comment (in effect): "If single sports conferences as we presently know them do not survive the ongoing changes in the NCAA, then Miami is going to need a home. In that scenario, the best Plan B for Miami would be if the MAC sponsored hockey."

Online commentators: "It seems like this is a veiled hint that Miami wants to get out of the NCHC conference."

Veiled hint or cry for help? ...

It could even be that the Miami athletics department is especially aware of the looming issues for single sports conference precisely because they have been thinking through whether Miami should switch to a different hockey conference ...

... but the remarks themselves were still about the possibility that changes in the NCAA may make it harder to operate single sports conferences.

After all, right now everyone relies on the NCAA Tourney to cover a big part of compliance costs for all sports at all levels, where if the Power Schools no longer tolerate the NCAA taking the majority of March Madness revenue to cover its operating costs, and compliance costs get pushed off onto the individual conferences, the multi-sport conferences have a lot more scale economies in setting up their compliance infrastructure than the single sport conferences do.

You're a lot more in tune with the whole conference realignment stuff than me so I wouldn't be surprised if you were right. But is the time horizon 2-3 years or 15-20 years - would the raiding of March Madness happen before the ACC's GOR runs out in '36 (again, you would have a better sense than me)? So if Saylor knows something is about to happen and is telegraphing this to the world via a blog post about the formation of MAC Hockey then yeah, I agree his scenario is relevant in the here and now. I'm just not sure the AD of a MAC program has that kind of inside info AND is hinting at it publicly in such an obtuse manner. However, this is also an AD whose hockey program has been on the skids for going on 7 years and is now in cost containment mode in the most expensive and competitive conference in college hockey. OK, 2nd most expensive behind the B1G but unquestionably the most competitive. Hence my interpretation of his comments.

Would I love to see MAC Hockey? You betcha!! But I'm not holding my breath.
08-25-2022 06:52 PM
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cmufanatic Offline
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Post: #27
RE: The MAC to add hockey?
(08-25-2022 06:52 PM)TalonsUpPuckDown Wrote:  
(08-25-2022 05:19 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(08-24-2022 07:59 PM)TalonsUpPuckDown Wrote:  
(08-24-2022 04:32 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  Comment (in effect): "If single sports conferences as we presently know them do not survive the ongoing changes in the NCAA, then Miami is going to need a home. In that scenario, the best Plan B for Miami would be if the MAC sponsored hockey."

Online commentators: "It seems like this is a veiled hint that Miami wants to get out of the NCHC conference."

Veiled hint or cry for help? ...

It could even be that the Miami athletics department is especially aware of the looming issues for single sports conference precisely because they have been thinking through whether Miami should switch to a different hockey conference ...

... but the remarks themselves were still about the possibility that changes in the NCAA may make it harder to operate single sports conferences.

After all, right now everyone relies on the NCAA Tourney to cover a big part of compliance costs for all sports at all levels, where if the Power Schools no longer tolerate the NCAA taking the majority of March Madness revenue to cover its operating costs, and compliance costs get pushed off onto the individual conferences, the multi-sport conferences have a lot more scale economies in setting up their compliance infrastructure than the single sport conferences do.

You're a lot more in tune with the whole conference realignment stuff than me so I wouldn't be surprised if you were right. But is the time horizon 2-3 years or 15-20 years - would the raiding of March Madness happen before the ACC's GOR runs out in '36 (again, you would have a better sense than me)? So if Saylor knows something is about to happen and is telegraphing this to the world via a blog post about the formation of MAC Hockey then yeah, I agree his scenario is relevant in the here and now. I'm just not sure the AD of a MAC program has that kind of inside info AND is hinting at it publicly in such an obtuse manner. However, this is also an AD whose hockey program has been on the skids for going on 7 years and is now in cost containment mode in the most expensive and competitive conference in college hockey. OK, 2nd most expensive behind the B1G but unquestionably the most competitive. Hence my interpretation of his comments.

Would I love to see MAC Hockey? You betcha!! But I'm not holding my breath.

In this poor economic climate and how expensive a hockey team is, fat chance mac brings on hockey.
08-26-2022 03:51 AM
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Post: #28
RE: The MAC to add hockey?
(08-24-2022 09:54 PM)epasnoopy Wrote:  What caused Miami's tumble in hockey? I know they were very successful and had NHL draft picks.

I don't really follow hockey on any level but just curious.

Mostly been a lack of recruiting depth. Miami has some talented players, but the NCHC is a strong conference with several hockey powers running the league (UND, St. Cloud, Duluth, Denver). Kind of like in football, we're seeing the top programs becoming the destinations for the best players because they want to get to the next level. Miami simply isn't getting enough horses throughout their lineup to be able to run with those big guys.
08-26-2022 08:42 AM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #29
RE: The MAC to add hockey?
(08-25-2022 06:52 PM)TalonsUpPuckDown Wrote:  ... But is the time horizon 2-3 years or 15-20 years - would the raiding of March Madness happen before the ACC's GOR runs out in '36 (again, you would have a better sense than me)? ...

First the CFP has to be ironed out. That is a pile of money sitting on the table where it's not even an argument over how its spread out between admin costs and the conferences/schools ... but rather, the pile of money is just sitting there, not being picked up.

The current CPF contract runs through 2025/26, so if they can't get unanimous agreement to change the current contract, the new version of the CFP rolls out for the 2026/27 season.

Then the current NCAA Tourney contract runs through 2032.

That window between 2026/27 and 22031/32 is when the question of whether or not to breakaway from the NCAA Tourney will have to be sorted out.

But the NCAA is going to try to avoid a breakaway if they can, and if there is something they can get done "now", before serious attention has turned to that issue ... it wouldn't be surprising if that gets pushed through sooner rather than later.

And what if they have side-effects that hit single-sports conferences harder than multi-sports conferences? Well, the conferences they are trying to keep "in house" are all multi-sports conferences, so any special challenges that a reform creates for single-sports conferences might not get the attention they would "normally" have.

I know that a lot of people who talk about conference realignment want to talk about "big bang" changes, but enough smaller scale reforms can start to have big effects once they start to accumulate.

All of that is a long winded way of saying I think it's plausible that some changes may be in the wind that will make life harder for single sports conference.

Quote: So if Saylor knows something is about to happen and is telegraphing this to the world via a blog post about the formation of MAC Hockey then yeah, I agree his scenario is relevant in the here and now.

It doesn't have to be as definite as that. It could be that he is seeing some proposals being made and then hearing from the single sports conference that Miami is part of what kinds of challenges the proposals present to a single sports conference.

Quote: I'm just not sure the AD of a MAC program has that kind of inside info AND is hinting at it publicly in such an obtuse manner.

Quote: However, this is also an AD whose hockey program has been on the skids for going on 7 years and is now in cost containment mode in the most expensive and competitive conference in college hockey. OK, 2nd most expensive behind the B1G but unquestionably the most competitive. Hence my interpretation of his comments.

Your second part kind of says exactly why the AD of a MAC program would have that kind of information. The MAC is going to be seeing the proposals that various parties are sending around to fix this or that identified "challenge". And the Miami and WMU AD would be hearing from their conference mates in the NCHC what problems some of those proposals would present to the NCHC.

And, of course, as part of looking at whether or not Miami should switch to the CCHA, the Miami AD would also be seeing whether those same problems are also likely to face the CCHA.

And he would have heard over and over again, "why doesn't Miami just join the CCHA?", so it's something that is going to be on his mind when he it thinking about the path ahead.

It's not like the NCAA would be targetting getting ride of single sports conferences, more a problem of side-effects of reforms aimed at doing something else ... similar to the way the move to clean up the issues of cross-division DI/DIII schools that led to several multi-division schools playing scholarship Division 1 soccer, lacrosse and hockey schools having to work very hard to win a grandfather clause.

Quote: Would I love to see MAC Hockey? You betcha!! But I'm not holding my breath.

Thing is, suppose that something has a 10% chance of happening that makes it hard for single sports conferences to survive. That's serious enough that an AD with an important sport in a single sport conference has to give it some thought.

But still, 90% chance it comes to nothing.
08-26-2022 04:43 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #30
RE: The MAC to add hockey?
Summit League: (8)
UND
Denver
Omaha
St Thomas
Colorado College*
Minn Duluth*
Minn St*
St Cloud St*

MAC: (9)
WMU
Miami
BG
Ferris St*
Lake Superior St*
Mich Tech*
N Mich*
Augustana*
Bemijdi St*
08-27-2022 04:36 PM
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GRBRONCO Offline
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Post: #31
RE: The MAC to add hockey?
(08-27-2022 04:36 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Summit League: (8)
UND
Denver
Omaha
St Thomas
Colorado College*
Minn Duluth*
Minn St*
St Cloud St*

MAC: (9)
WMU
Miami
BG
Ferris St*
Lake Superior St*
Mich Tech*
N Mich*
Augustana*
Bemijdi St*

Why would this lineup even be called MAC? Might as well call it the GLIAC since there are more GLIAC schools in it. I hope WMU wouldn't be stupid enough to leave the top hockey conference for something like this. Recruiting would go to hell.
08-27-2022 05:32 PM
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WesternDave Offline
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Post: #32
RE: The MAC to add hockey?
WMU is in a perfect position right now being the only Michigan school in the best conference in the nation. We are happy to sell recruits on that point all day, every day. WMU gets to see most old CCHA teams every season in non-conference play, while playing home and homes. This works amazingly for everyone.

If for whatever reason men's and women's ice hockey can not survive as single sport conferences, then I would expect WMU to be absorbed into the Summit League along with the rest of the NCHC.
08-29-2022 08:51 PM
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