(08-25-2022 03:35 PM)b2b Wrote:  

(08-25-2022 02:49 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-20-2022 12:48 PM)RuckleSt Wrote:  These same people will be complaining they didn't get promotions in a couple years due to sexism, racism, or some other "ism".

Maximizing one's output is generally rewarded via raises, promotions, or bonuses at good companies. Companies that don't do that lose their best employees. Another example of the free market at work.

What do you expect from a generation socially promoted through a dumbed down public education system? They can't hustle because they had no active P.E. They may as well drink excessively because apparently Dean Wormer was wrong. It seems many go through life, "fat, drunk, and stupid!"

And who let that happen to the schools?

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

Your parent's did!

(08-25-2022 12:51 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(08-23-2022 04:08 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  I have to be honest. If I could get a workforce of Quiet Quitters... Id be fine. Just doing the bare minimum is fine for most of the jobs I hire for. I have a few motivated Supervisors that can deal with this type of worker. The problem I have is that most of them can't get to work every day and when they do...they can't get there on time. If I had a bunch of these people that at least are THERE...Id be thrilled. There is not a day that goes by that I don't struggle to have enough help to get the job done.

I cant tell you how many people tell me this. Apparently--just showing up for work on the days you are scheduled has become an amazing employee attribute these days----and if you not only show up to work on the days your scheduled---but consistently arrive "on time" for your shift----you are an increasingly rare bird.

Managers now are overlooking workers poor work performance if they can just get to work on time daily. It's too damn much work trying to replace them. The bad part is that those that are actually producing are getting resentful. Ive had this happen to me. Ive had to sit those guys down one one and explain this mess sooth it out... promising to reward them over the slackers.

(08-25-2022 07:24 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(08-25-2022 12:51 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(08-23-2022 04:08 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  I have to be honest. If I could get a workforce of Quiet Quitters... Id be fine. Just doing the bare minimum is fine for most of the jobs I hire for. I have a few motivated Supervisors that can deal with this type of worker. The problem I have is that most of them can't get to work every day and when they do...they can't get there on time. If I had a bunch of these people that at least are THERE...Id be thrilled. There is not a day that goes by that I don't struggle to have enough help to get the job done.

I cant tell you how many people tell me this. Apparently--just showing up for work on the days you are scheduled has become an amazing employee attribute these days----and if you not only show up to work on the days your scheduled---but consistently arrive "on time" for your shift----you are an increasingly rare bird.

Managers now are overlooking workers poor work performance if they can just get to work on time daily. It's too damn much work trying to replace them. The bad part is that those that are actually producing are getting resentful. Ive had this happen to me. Ive had to sit those guys down one one and explain this mess sooth it out... promising to reward them over the slackers.

Thats the other part of the problem---those employees that show up on time, are experienced, and take pride in doing the job right are also typically employees who have been with the company for several years (meaning they also have the highest probability of being employees who are being under paid relative to their market value). Employers are having to pay so much to bring in the quiet quitters---they try to make it up by holding down the labor costs of their more reliable longer tenured employees. Once the better employees realize the pay range in their job has compressed to the point that crappy "quiet quitters" are earning almost what the experienced employees earn---the better employees either leave for better pay elsewhere or become "quiet quitters" themselves. Compression raises are used by some companies to combat that issue---but it seems most companies simply count on workers not finding out what the newbies make. Not a good strategy given that the Social Media generation shares pretty much everything---so counting on them not discussing pay rate is probably asking to be disappointed.

FWIW----the cure for quiet quitting is layoffs. Once those start---the best employees are the ones companies keep. As jobs become increasingly tougher to find---everyone suddenly starts to care more about hanging onto the job they have. Its been 14 years since the Great Recession. Many of todays younger workers have never really seen a real recessionary period where jobs were hard to come by....which is part of the reason they conduct themselves as they do.

Many years ago, I had a handyman who did several jobs around my house--painting, carpet, plumbing. He asked me if he could use me as a reference and I said yes. I got a call from someone who said that Frank had given him my name as a reference, and asking what I could say about him. I started with, "He has done several jobs for me, and always showed up on time and sober." The guy said, "Thanks, that's all I need to know, I'm hiring him."

(08-25-2022 08:17 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Many years ago, I had a handyman who did several jobs around my house--painting, carpet, plumbing. He asked me if he could use me as a reference and I said yes. I got a call from someone who said that Frank had given him my name as a reference, and asking what I could say about him. I started with, "He has done several jobs for me, and always showed up on time and sober." The guy said, "Thanks, that's all I need to know, I'm hiring him."

you've mentioned that story before .... I still get a kick out of it!

(08-25-2022 07:41 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(08-25-2022 07:24 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(08-25-2022 12:51 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(08-23-2022 04:08 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  I have to be honest. If I could get a workforce of Quiet Quitters... Id be fine. Just doing the bare minimum is fine for most of the jobs I hire for. I have a few motivated Supervisors that can deal with this type of worker. The problem I have is that most of them can't get to work every day and when they do...they can't get there on time. If I had a bunch of these people that at least are THERE...Id be thrilled. There is not a day that goes by that I don't struggle to have enough help to get the job done.

I cant tell you how many people tell me this. Apparently--just showing up for work on the days you are scheduled has become an amazing employee attribute these days----and if you not only show up to work on the days your scheduled---but consistently arrive "on time" for your shift----you are an increasingly rare bird.

Managers now are overlooking workers poor work performance if they can just get to work on time daily. It's too damn much work trying to replace them. The bad part is that those that are actually producing are getting resentful. Ive had this happen to me. Ive had to sit those guys down one one and explain this mess sooth it out... promising to reward them over the slackers.

Thats the other part of the problem---those employees that show up on time, are experienced, and take pride in doing the job right are also typically employees who have been with the company for several years (meaning they also have the highest probability of being employees who are being under paid relative to their market value). Employers are having to pay so much to bring in the quiet quitters---they try to make it up by holding down the labor costs of their more reliable longer tenured employees. Once the better employees realize the pay range in their job has compressed to the point that crappy "quiet quitters" are earning almost what the experienced employees earn---the better employees either leave for better pay elsewhere or become "quiet quitters" themselves. Compression raises are used by some companies to combat that issue---but it seems most companies simply count on workers not finding out what the newbies make. Not a good strategy given that the Social Media generation shares pretty much everything---so counting on them not discussing pay rate is probably asking to be disappointed.

You say this like it's a bad thing (maybe I'm misreading the tone- sorry if so), but I see talking about pay among coworkers as a positive. Labor inherently is at a disadvantage- there is nothing wrong with workers using all the tools at their disposal to improve their situation, regardless of how much a company tries to discourage it.

(08-21-2022 09:20 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  I started running my first factory in 1993. I had Boomers walkout at break and lunch. Every generation has some lazy folks.

It’s still early in Generation Z. The oldest Gen Zers are only 25.

I’m sure glad people didn’t judge me by the dumb stuff I did before I turned 25.

My old man once told me that when I was 18 he wouldn't have given a plug nickel for my chances of ever surviving on my own. I had my first child at 21 and he said he then thought there was a slim ray of hope for me. He then said that by the time I turned 25 he was glad he hadn't given up on me. Coincidental that you would choose that number.

My youngest grandson turned 18 this year, he started at the U of M last week. His dad is a top notch mechanic at THE major Toyota dealership here but started a side gig doing yards and landscaping two years ago. My grandson has been at his side for every job working his tail off. He saved enough money to buy a high pressure spray rig and other materials needed to start detailing cars. This kid taught himself Portuguese - he has a couple of friends from Brazil so that was easy enough for him - as well as Spanish and Italian with some Russian. He is going into international business and has his whole life laid out. I pray that it all goes according to plan for him. The point being that not all Gen Z'rs are alike. This one gives me some small hope for our future. He thinks democrats are scum. Then again he was home schooled for his 1st 3 years of high school and in his senior year he decided he wanted to return to school so he could graduate with his friends, most of whom are like minded as him. Don't count them out just yet, many of them see the world around them and are not happy with the way things are.

(08-22-2022 06:41 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  

Rowe is a national treasure as far as I'm concerned.

(08-24-2022 10:27 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  Old people bitching about today's youth. Congratulations on becoming your fathers.

You may well get there yourself one day junior. Same as it ever was. One of the problems with youth is that they don't understand that it doesn't last. It's only your world for a brief moment in time and then it changes hands, as it has been since the dawn of time.

You get what you earn and you earn what get.

(08-25-2022 02:49 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-20-2022 12:48 PM)RuckleSt Wrote:  These same people will be complaining they didn't get promotions in a couple years due to sexism, racism, or some other "ism".

Maximizing one's output is generally rewarded via raises, promotions, or bonuses at good companies. Companies that don't do that lose their best employees. Another example of the free market at work.

What do you expect from a generation socially promoted through a dumbed down public education system? They can't hustle because they had no active P.E. They may as well drink excessively because apparently Dean Wormer was wrong. It seems many go through life, "fat, drunk, and stupid!"

Spot on as usual.

(08-25-2022 03:35 PM)b2b Wrote:  

(08-25-2022 02:49 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-20-2022 12:48 PM)RuckleSt Wrote:  These same people will be complaining they didn't get promotions in a couple years due to sexism, racism, or some other "ism".

Maximizing one's output is generally rewarded via raises, promotions, or bonuses at good companies. Companies that don't do that lose their best employees. Another example of the free market at work.

What do you expect from a generation socially promoted through a dumbed down public education system? They can't hustle because they had no active P.E. They may as well drink excessively because apparently Dean Wormer was wrong. It seems many go through life, "fat, drunk, and stupid!"

And who let that happen to the schools? I have a lot of respect for you in general but these takes are just as lazy as the generation you're criticizing.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

Does it matter how it happened except as an object lesson going forward? You could easily just acknowledge that it's happened and move on. And are you not just as guilty yourself? How old are you anyway?

(08-26-2022 07:24 AM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  My youngest grandson turned 18 this year, he started at the U of M last week. His dad is a top notch mechanic at THE major Toyota dealership here but started a side gig doing yards and landscaping two years ago. My grandson has been at his side for every job working his tail off. He saved enough money to buy a high pressure spray rig and other materials needed to start detailing cars. This kid taught himself Portuguese - he has a couple of friends from Brazil so that was easy enough for him - as well as Spanish and Italian with some Russian. He is going into international business and has his whole life laid out. I pray that it all goes according to plan for him. The point being that not all Gen Z'rs are alike. This one gives me some small hope for our future. He thinks democrats are scum. Then again he was home schooled for his 1st 3 years of high school and in his senior year he decided he wanted to return to school so he could graduate with his friends, most of whom are like minded as him. Don't count them out just yet, many of them see the world around them and are not happy with the way things are.

I think you spell out what makes the difference in why some of these young people are failing miserably. It obvious your grandson had parental and outside guidance in his formative years. Unfortunately many of the young guys I hire off the street had none. Most had no family structure to help prop them up and guide them. The destruction of the traditional family is probably the root to most of this. It affects everything in a kids maturing life from values and ethics to education and common sense. If we don't somehow reverse this nothing is going to change.

(08-25-2022 08:17 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Many years ago, I had a handyman who did several jobs around my house--painting, carpet, plumbing. He asked me if he could use me as a reference and I said yes. I got a call from someone who said that Frank had given him my name as a reference, and asking what I could say about him. I started with, "He has done several jobs for me, and always showed up on time and sober." The guy said, "Thanks, that's all I need to know, I'm hiring him."

I tell every new hire the same thing. "If you can get to work here on time every day you likely will never lose this job." I have fired maybe 10 workers over the 39 years for performance. 99% of those Ive fired was because of attendance issues.

It surprises me not that JDT would go with a "get off my lawn" take on this. I am kind of surprised that nobody has thrown out the white supremacy card yet (at lest in this thread). I have seen more than one article and/or reference to working hard is a "white" thing. I am sure if CB was still here he would be spitting out that garbage.


A lot of this attitude comes from the everybody get a trophy mentality as well. That may build a little self esteem in youth athletics, but not in work environment. Losing does not make you a loser, but when you are coddled as a younger person, you have no idea how to accept and grow from loss, failure, or underachievement so you end up feeling like you are a loser or maybe worse still you settle on getting by. Those people will get by but they will never rise above.


I used sports metaphors a lot with my kids - this is one which is also 100% true.

I used to coach basketball (for 14 years) in the youth ranks - it was travelling, not a rec team. Over those 14 years I managed to coach to a league title 4 times. None of those 4 teams were nearly as talented as 3 other teams I had including one that didn't even make the finals and that teams was barely above .500 and did not even make the playoffs.

The difference between those teams was really simple actually. My championship teams absolutely hated losing, those other three teams just liked to win. I can coach winning basketball with kids that are content with winning, but give me some kids who are hungry and I will have a team that will win A LOT more.

(08-26-2022 09:32 AM)Eldonabe Wrote:  It surprises me not that JDT would go with a "get off my lawn" take on this. I am kind of surprised that nobody has thrown out the white supremacy card yet (at lest in this thread). I have seen more than one article and/or reference to working hard is a "white" thing. I am sure if CB was still here he would be spitting out that garbage.


A lot of this attitude comes from the everybody get a trophy mentality as well. That may build a little self esteem in youth athletics, but not in work environment. Losing does not make you a loser, but when you are coddled as a younger person, you have no idea how to accept and grow from loss, failure, or underachievement so you end up feeling like you are a loser or maybe worse still you settle on getting by. Those people will get by but they will never rise above.


I used sports metaphors a lot with my kids - this is one which is also 100% true.

I used to coach basketball (for 14 years) in the youth ranks - it was travelling, not a rec team. Over those 14 years I managed to coach to a league title 4 times. None of those 4 teams were nearly as talented as 3 other teams I had including one that didn't even make the finals and that teams was barely above .500 and did not even make the playoffs.

The difference between those teams was really simple actually. My championship teams absolutely hated losing, those other three teams just liked to win. I can coach winning basketball with kids that are content with winning, but give me some kids who are hungry and I will have a team that will win A LOT more.

I'd bet that the the kids you had on that team had Dad's with similar "hate to lose" attitudes. Imho a lot of problems kids have today can be directly traced to the home.

(08-26-2022 11:38 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(08-26-2022 09:32 AM)Eldonabe Wrote:  It surprises me not that JDT would go with a "get off my lawn" take on this. I am kind of surprised that nobody has thrown out the white supremacy card yet (at lest in this thread). I have seen more than one article and/or reference to working hard is a "white" thing. I am sure if CB was still here he would be spitting out that garbage.


A lot of this attitude comes from the everybody get a trophy mentality as well. That may build a little self esteem in youth athletics, but not in work environment. Losing does not make you a loser, but when you are coddled as a younger person, you have no idea how to accept and grow from loss, failure, or underachievement so you end up feeling like you are a loser or maybe worse still you settle on getting by. Those people will get by but they will never rise above.


I used sports metaphors a lot with my kids - this is one which is also 100% true.

I used to coach basketball (for 14 years) in the youth ranks - it was travelling, not a rec team. Over those 14 years I managed to coach to a league title 4 times. None of those 4 teams were nearly as talented as 3 other teams I had including one that didn't even make the finals and that teams was barely above .500 and did not even make the playoffs.

The difference between those teams was really simple actually. My championship teams absolutely hated losing, those other three teams just liked to win. I can coach winning basketball with kids that are content with winning, but give me some kids who are hungry and I will have a team that will win A LOT more.

I'd bet that the the kids you had on that team had Dad's with similar "hate to lose" attitudes. Imho a lot of problems kids have today can be directly traced to the home.

Most of them - absolutely yes.

(08-26-2022 02:34 AM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  

(08-25-2022 07:41 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(08-25-2022 07:24 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(08-25-2022 12:51 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(08-23-2022 04:08 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  I have to be honest. If I could get a workforce of Quiet Quitters... Id be fine. Just doing the bare minimum is fine for most of the jobs I hire for. I have a few motivated Supervisors that can deal with this type of worker. The problem I have is that most of them can't get to work every day and when they do...they can't get there on time. If I had a bunch of these people that at least are THERE...Id be thrilled. There is not a day that goes by that I don't struggle to have enough help to get the job done.

I cant tell you how many people tell me this. Apparently--just showing up for work on the days you are scheduled has become an amazing employee attribute these days----and if you not only show up to work on the days your scheduled---but consistently arrive "on time" for your shift----you are an increasingly rare bird.

Managers now are overlooking workers poor work performance if they can just get to work on time daily. It's too damn much work trying to replace them. The bad part is that those that are actually producing are getting resentful. Ive had this happen to me. Ive had to sit those guys down one one and explain this mess sooth it out... promising to reward them over the slackers.

Thats the other part of the problem---those employees that show up on time, are experienced, and take pride in doing the job right are also typically employees who have been with the company for several years (meaning they also have the highest probability of being employees who are being under paid relative to their market value). Employers are having to pay so much to bring in the quiet quitters---they try to make it up by holding down the labor costs of their more reliable longer tenured employees. Once the better employees realize the pay range in their job has compressed to the point that crappy "quiet quitters" are earning almost what the experienced employees earn---the better employees either leave for better pay elsewhere or become "quiet quitters" themselves. Compression raises are used by some companies to combat that issue---but it seems most companies simply count on workers not finding out what the newbies make. Not a good strategy given that the Social Media generation shares pretty much everything---so counting on them not discussing pay rate is probably asking to be disappointed.

You say this like it's a bad thing (maybe I'm misreading the tone- sorry if so), but I see talking about pay among coworkers as a positive. Labor inherently is at a disadvantage- there is nothing wrong with workers using all the tools at their disposal to improve their situation, regardless of how much a company tries to discourage it.

Im not saying its good or bad---Im just saying if your counting on young employees maintaining confidentiality of pay rates as the key backstop to keeping your workforce content with their compensation---thats a bad bet.

(08-26-2022 12:05 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(08-26-2022 02:34 AM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  

(08-25-2022 07:41 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(08-25-2022 07:24 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(08-25-2022 12:51 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  I cant tell you how many people tell me this. Apparently--just showing up for work on the days you are scheduled has become an amazing employee attribute these days----and if you not only show up to work on the days your scheduled---but consistently arrive "on time" for your shift----you are an increasingly rare bird.

Managers now are overlooking workers poor work performance if they can just get to work on time daily. It's too damn much work trying to replace them. The bad part is that those that are actually producing are getting resentful. Ive had this happen to me. Ive had to sit those guys down one one and explain this mess sooth it out... promising to reward them over the slackers.

Thats the other part of the problem---those employees that show up on time, are experienced, and take pride in doing the job right are also typically employees who have been with the company for several years (meaning they also have the highest probability of being employees who are being under paid relative to their market value). Employers are having to pay so much to bring in the quiet quitters---they try to make it up by holding down the labor costs of their more reliable longer tenured employees. Once the better employees realize the pay range in their job has compressed to the point that crappy "quiet quitters" are earning almost what the experienced employees earn---the better employees either leave for better pay elsewhere or become "quiet quitters" themselves. Compression raises are used by some companies to combat that issue---but it seems most companies simply count on workers not finding out what the newbies make. Not a good strategy given that the Social Media generation shares pretty much everything---so counting on them not discussing pay rate is probably asking to be disappointed.

You say this like it's a bad thing (maybe I'm misreading the tone- sorry if so), but I see talking about pay among coworkers as a positive. Labor inherently is at a disadvantage- there is nothing wrong with workers using all the tools at their disposal to improve their situation, regardless of how much a company tries to discourage it.

Im not saying its good or bad---Im just saying if your counting on young employees maintaining confidentiality of pay rates as the key backstop to keeping your workforce content with their compensation---thats a bad bet.

As a manager I make it crystal clear to EVERY employee that raises are confidential and to NOT spout it off to their peers. We are not a union shop so there is no reason to do so. I make it clear that if they do? I will not forget it and the consequences will not be in their favor going forward. This threat has worked pretty well over the last 30+ years.