(08-14-2022 12:30 PM)ESE84 Wrote:  

(08-10-2022 09:52 PM)Texasowl Wrote:  So true and $36k or $24k (Texas Tech) is peanuts. The starting salary with a Rice degree can make that up in one year after graduation.

(08-10-2022 11:34 AM)Ourland Wrote:  

(08-10-2022 11:24 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(08-10-2022 10:52 AM)Ourland Wrote:  I hope Rice says 'no' to any collective that might try to form. We're too good for this. It isn't right. Bring in a good coach, make Rice a great place for amateur athletes on campus, and give them a great education. If we lose, we lose.

For a purist, this is absolutely the way to go.

And it will definitely lead, not to D-III, but to the abolition of athletics.

Rice will be fine. It has more than enough to sell student-athletes who are serious about getting an incredible education on a beautiful campus, and those are the students we want. If they can't see that value, we don't need them.

Don't do it Rice.

And here’s one data point on the value of an average Rice degree versus an average degree from SMU or Texas Tech.

https://houston.culturemap.com/news/inno...martasset/

Seems we do have a path forward that is not about throwing the top dollar at athletes who expect to have professional sports careers.

Just incredible. Does anyone know the cost of a scholarship at Rice. How much does it cost, if someone paid out of pocket?

Agree that we don't need the students who look to make Rice a stepping stone to an aspiring pro career.

(08-14-2022 02:17 PM)Ourland Wrote:  

(08-14-2022 12:30 PM)ESE84 Wrote:  

(08-10-2022 09:52 PM)Texasowl Wrote:  So true and $36k or $24k (Texas Tech) is peanuts. The starting salary with a Rice degree can make that up in one year after graduation.

(08-10-2022 11:34 AM)Ourland Wrote:  

(08-10-2022 11:24 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  For a purist, this is absolutely the way to go.

And it will definitely lead, not to D-III, but to the abolition of athletics.

Rice will be fine. It has more than enough to sell student-athletes who are serious about getting an incredible education on a beautiful campus, and those are the students we want. If they can't see that value, we don't need them.

Don't do it Rice.

And here’s one data point on the value of an average Rice degree versus an average degree from SMU or Texas Tech.

https://houston.culturemap.com/news/inno...martasset/

Seems we do have a path forward that is not about throwing the top dollar at athletes who expect to have professional sports careers.

Just incredible. Does anyone know the cost of a scholarship at Rice. How much does it cost, if someone paid out of pocket?

Agree that we don't need the students who look to make Rice a stepping stone to an aspiring pro career.

Why is aspiring to and achieving a professional career in sports any different than any other career coming out of Rice? We should celebrate our athletes who achieve the highest level in their field.

(08-14-2022 02:46 PM)markbrindley Wrote:  

(08-14-2022 02:17 PM)Ourland Wrote:  

(08-14-2022 12:30 PM)ESE84 Wrote:  

(08-10-2022 09:52 PM)Texasowl Wrote:  So true and $36k or $24k (Texas Tech) is peanuts. The starting salary with a Rice degree can make that up in one year after graduation.

(08-10-2022 11:34 AM)Ourland Wrote:  Rice will be fine. It has more than enough to sell student-athletes who are serious about getting an incredible education on a beautiful campus, and those are the students we want. If they can't see that value, we don't need them.

Don't do it Rice.

And here’s one data point on the value of an average Rice degree versus an average degree from SMU or Texas Tech.

https://houston.culturemap.com/news/inno...martasset/

Seems we do have a path forward that is not about throwing the top dollar at athletes who expect to have professional sports careers.

Just incredible. Does anyone know the cost of a scholarship at Rice. How much does it cost, if someone paid out of pocket?

Agree that we don't need the students who look to make Rice a stepping stone to an aspiring pro career.

Why is aspiring to and achieving a professional career in sports any different than any other career coming out of Rice? We should celebrate our athletes who achieve the highest level in their field.

I'd be curious to understand how that $72,000 is calculated. I graduated 4.5 years ago and most people entering the workforce (i.e. not going to grad school) then were making more than $72k.

Since then, we've had huge wage inflation...

(08-14-2022 02:46 PM)markbrindley Wrote:  

(08-14-2022 02:17 PM)Ourland Wrote:  

(08-14-2022 12:30 PM)ESE84 Wrote:  

(08-10-2022 09:52 PM)Texasowl Wrote:  So true and $36k or $24k (Texas Tech) is peanuts. The starting salary with a Rice degree can make that up in one year after graduation.

(08-10-2022 11:34 AM)Ourland Wrote:  Rice will be fine. It has more than enough to sell student-athletes who are serious about getting an incredible education on a beautiful campus, and those are the students we want. If they can't see that value, we don't need them.

Don't do it Rice.

And here’s one data point on the value of an average Rice degree versus an average degree from SMU or Texas Tech.

https://houston.culturemap.com/news/inno...martasset/

Seems we do have a path forward that is not about throwing the top dollar at athletes who expect to have professional sports careers.

Just incredible. Does anyone know the cost of a scholarship at Rice. How much does it cost, if someone paid out of pocket?

Agree that we don't need the students who look to make Rice a stepping stone to an aspiring pro career.

Why is aspiring to and achieving a professional career in sports any different than any other career coming out of Rice? We should celebrate our athletes who achieve the highest level in their field.

That's not what I said. It's [/b]not any different for those athletes who aspire to get a Rice degree. It's those that intend to use Rice as a springboard to another university's football program who aren't welcome, as far as I'm concerned.

(08-14-2022 04:01 PM)Ourland Wrote:  

(08-14-2022 02:46 PM)markbrindley Wrote:  

(08-14-2022 02:17 PM)Ourland Wrote:  

(08-14-2022 12:30 PM)ESE84 Wrote:  

(08-10-2022 09:52 PM)Texasowl Wrote:  So true and $36k or $24k (Texas Tech) is peanuts. The starting salary with a Rice degree can make that up in one year after graduation.

And here’s one data point on the value of an average Rice degree versus an average degree from SMU or Texas Tech.

https://houston.culturemap.com/news/inno...martasset/

Seems we do have a path forward that is not about throwing the top dollar at athletes who expect to have professional sports careers.

Just incredible. Does anyone know the cost of a scholarship at Rice. How much does it cost, if someone paid out of pocket?

Agree that we don't need the students who look to make Rice a stepping stone to an aspiring pro career.

Why is aspiring to and achieving a professional career in sports any different than any other career coming out of Rice? We should celebrate our athletes who achieve the highest level in their field.

That's not what I said. It's [/b]not any different for those athletes who aspire to get a Rice degree. It's those that intend to use Rice as a springboard to another university's football program who aren't welcome, as far as I'm concerned.

"Agree that we don't need the students who look to make Rice a stepping stone to an aspiring pro career." is what you said and what I was referring to. Your second statement clarifies it. Either way, a kid should always have the opportunity to go where he feels is best to pursue his career just like any other student. If they start at Rice and realize it's not the right place for them, they should be able to move. We should aspire to make Rice the type of place a kid doesn't want to leave.

(08-14-2022 02:46 PM)markbrindley Wrote:  

(08-14-2022 02:17 PM)Ourland Wrote:  

(08-14-2022 12:30 PM)ESE84 Wrote:  

(08-10-2022 09:52 PM)Texasowl Wrote:  So true and $36k or $24k (Texas Tech) is peanuts. The starting salary with a Rice degree can make that up in one year after graduation.

(08-10-2022 11:34 AM)Ourland Wrote:  Rice will be fine. It has more than enough to sell student-athletes who are serious about getting an incredible education on a beautiful campus, and those are the students we want. If they can't see that value, we don't need them.

Don't do it Rice.

And here’s one data point on the value of an average Rice degree versus an average degree from SMU or Texas Tech.

https://houston.culturemap.com/news/inno...martasset/

Seems we do have a path forward that is not about throwing the top dollar at athletes who expect to have professional sports careers.

Just incredible. Does anyone know the cost of a scholarship at Rice. How much does it cost, if someone paid out of pocket?

Agree that we don't need the students who look to make Rice a stepping stone to an aspiring pro career.

Why is aspiring to and achieving a professional career in sports any different than any other career coming out of Rice? We should celebrate our athletes who achieve the highest level in their field.

Agree 100%.

(08-14-2022 04:11 PM)markbrindley Wrote:  

(08-14-2022 04:01 PM)Ourland Wrote:  

(08-14-2022 02:46 PM)markbrindley Wrote:  

(08-14-2022 02:17 PM)Ourland Wrote:  

(08-14-2022 12:30 PM)ESE84 Wrote:  And here’s one data point on the value of an average Rice degree versus an average degree from SMU or Texas Tech.

https://houston.culturemap.com/news/inno...martasset/

Seems we do have a path forward that is not about throwing the top dollar at athletes who expect to have professional sports careers.

Just incredible. Does anyone know the cost of a scholarship at Rice. How much does it cost, if someone paid out of pocket?

Agree that we don't need the students who look to make Rice a stepping stone to an aspiring pro career.

Why is aspiring to and achieving a professional career in sports any different than any other career coming out of Rice? We should celebrate our athletes who achieve the highest level in their field.

That's not what I said. It's [/b]not any different for those athletes who aspire to get a Rice degree. It's those that intend to use Rice as a springboard to another university's football program who aren't welcome, as far as I'm concerned.

"Agree that we don't need the students who look to make Rice a stepping stone to an aspiring pro career." is what you said and what I was referring to. Your second statement clarifies it. Either way, a kid should always have the opportunity to go where he feels is best to pursue his career just like any other student. If they start at Rice and realize it's not the right place for them, they should be able to move. We should aspire to make Rice the type of place a kid doesn't want to leave.

We're not disagreeing.

(08-14-2022 02:46 PM)markbrindley Wrote:  

(08-14-2022 02:17 PM)Ourland Wrote:  

(08-14-2022 12:30 PM)ESE84 Wrote:  

(08-10-2022 09:52 PM)Texasowl Wrote:  So true and $36k or $24k (Texas Tech) is peanuts. The starting salary with a Rice degree can make that up in one year after graduation.

(08-10-2022 11:34 AM)Ourland Wrote:  Rice will be fine. It has more than enough to sell student-athletes who are serious about getting an incredible education on a beautiful campus, and those are the students we want. If they can't see that value, we don't need them.

Don't do it Rice.

And here’s one data point on the value of an average Rice degree versus an average degree from SMU or Texas Tech.

https://houston.culturemap.com/news/inno...martasset/

Seems we do have a path forward that is not about throwing the top dollar at athletes who expect to have professional sports careers.

Just incredible. Does anyone know the cost of a scholarship at Rice. How much does it cost, if someone paid out of pocket?

Agree that we don't need the students who look to make Rice a stepping stone to an aspiring pro career.

Why is aspiring to and achieving a professional career in sports any different than any other career coming out of Rice? We should celebrate our athletes who achieve the highest level in their field.

Two points...

1) couldn't agree more on the pro athletics career. It's almost identical to a degree in artistic performance.- Like them, you can also work 'ancillary' to the performance side (like an agent or coach or stadium manager) based in part on the experience of being a player. Its a bit bougie of us to celebrate an opera star, but not an NFL star. IMO, they are BOTH credits to the University and the opportunity that we gave them and they took advantage of.

2) the value of the Rice degree is OF COURSE pertinent and a great story to tell... but we must remember that these are 'averages', and in the simplest example, we don't have a lot of what I can only describe as 'degrees for the sake of a degree' as many other universities. If you graduate from Rice, you've put in a lot of work. Lots of schools will graduate you without you doing nearly as much work/providing nearly as much evidence to an employer (or investor) of your abilities. I suspect our 'employment' rate is much higher than some of those other universities, that also adds to this.

I don't know that two graduates who want to be teachers or numerous jobs will see much if any difference whatsoever in their salaries.... though I admit that if there are two candidates and one is from Rice, they might get the nod. Some other majors, absolutely. A few of them, perhaps can be MASSIVE differences... but I suspect among the biggest differences might be something like... 98% of our people get jobs averaging say 75k, and 80% of their people get jobs averaging say 70k.... let's assume for a minute that others don't get jobs for a while... Do the blend and we get an average for us of 73,500... and for them of 56,000.

(08-15-2022 12:14 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(08-14-2022 02:46 PM)markbrindley Wrote:  

(08-14-2022 02:17 PM)Ourland Wrote:  

(08-14-2022 12:30 PM)ESE84 Wrote:  

(08-10-2022 09:52 PM)Texasowl Wrote:  So true and $36k or $24k (Texas Tech) is peanuts. The starting salary with a Rice degree can make that up in one year after graduation.

And here’s one data point on the value of an average Rice degree versus an average degree from SMU or Texas Tech.

https://houston.culturemap.com/news/inno...martasset/

Seems we do have a path forward that is not about throwing the top dollar at athletes who expect to have professional sports careers.

Just incredible. Does anyone know the cost of a scholarship at Rice. How much does it cost, if someone paid out of pocket?

Agree that we don't need the students who look to make Rice a stepping stone to an aspiring pro career.

Why is aspiring to and achieving a professional career in sports any different than any other career coming out of Rice? We should celebrate our athletes who achieve the highest level in their field.

Two points...

1) couldn't agree more on the pro athletics career. It's almost identical to a degree in artistic performance.- Like them, you can also work 'ancillary' to the performance side (like an agent or coach or stadium manager) based in part on the experience of being a player. Its a bit bougie of us to celebrate an opera star, but not an NFL star. IMO, they are BOTH credits to the University and the opportunity that we gave them and they took advantage of.

2) the value of the Rice degree is OF COURSE pertinent and a great story to tell... but we must remember that these are 'averages', and in the simplest example, we don't have a lot of what I can only describe as 'degrees for the sake of a degree' as many other universities. If you graduate from Rice, you've put in a lot of work. Lots of schools will graduate you without you doing nearly as much work/providing nearly as much evidence to an employer (or investor) of your abilities. I suspect our 'employment' rate is much higher than some of those other universities, that also adds to this.

I don't know that two graduates who want to be teachers or numerous jobs will see much if any difference whatsoever in their salaries.... though I admit that if there are two candidates and one is from Rice, they might get the nod. Some other majors, absolutely. A few of them, perhaps can be MASSIVE differences... but I suspect among the biggest differences might be something like... 98% of our people get jobs averaging say 75k, and 80% of their people get jobs averaging say 70k.... let's assume for a minute that others don't get jobs for a while... Do the blend and we get an average for us of 73,500... and for them of 56,000.

Any athlete that comes to Rice to get a degree is to be exalted. Jordan Myers sticks out in my mind. He could have left two years before graduating to play somewhere else, but he didn't. He wanted a Rice degree, so he stuck around through the worst of times for our program to achieve it. I honor that.

Rice needs to be a great place for athletes. We need great coaches who care about their players. A pro-athletics environment must be fostered on campus, and within the colleges. I've had it with athletes who use Rice to go somewhere else. It shouldn't be happening in such large numbers at all. There's no excuse for it, especially since moving into the AAC.