The NIL arms race is going to get out of hand real quick, and TBH I'd rather exit that race now than hobble along and be forced to exit later. Will Rice be, ever, among the top 50 or even 75 spenders on NILs? I'm guessing not. That means we'll never be a top 50-75 program in marquee men's sports. What's the point of pumping millions more into athletics only to ensure we don't slide from #110 to 120?

Well, here is the REAL question.

How much is a players NIL really worth? I mean, not 'what can they get', but what are the providing and what is it worth?

We're talking about players, many of whom will never see the playing field... or certainly not be the 'image' of a team... being paid by 3rd parties for the use of their images or names, which most people wouldn't know... because they never play. They're just a guy in a 'school's' Uniform.

That really sounds like fraud and a way around 'buying' players... and THAT is fraud.

I mean, the entire TV package of a g5 football team, which is primarily based on the ad revenue that can be generated by that game... is only worth about $5mm (or less) and involves much more than just the players.

So on some levels, I get that paying 36k to 100 players is distributing $3,600,000 of that TV revenue to the people who generate MUCH of what is advertised... but that is GROSS revenue... not NET revenue. Of course it takes a ton of preparation and work and expense to CREATE that product....

So yes, seriously... other than a slush fund of money, what advertising exactly are these entities, who don't get any of that TV revenue... buying?? Are they expected to now work 3 jobs?? School, Football and 'modeling'??

I'm sorry, but this is fraud, and for a state school where the taxpayers are subsidizing the scholarship, that should be a crime.

Yes, I'm serious.

If you want to pay these guys, they are professionals and cannot therefore compete in Amateur Athletics...meaning the NCAA

(08-09-2022 07:57 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

(08-09-2022 07:40 PM)greyowl72 Wrote:  

(08-09-2022 05:52 PM)owl40 Wrote:  If the AD/Coaches had a plan on how to compete in the revenue (vs. Olympic) sports, I think it would be easy to find the $ to compete on NIL.

Problem is that arrogance combined w/ poor ‘pound the rock’ schemes in FB, not play any defense in MBB, and poor pitching/defense in BB is not inspiring to invest NIL $$ against more losing w/ failed approach. Put a viable plan on how the revenue sports win and I think the $ can follow vs. vice versa.

I think this is the whole problem in a nutshell. At this point, in the major mens’ sports, Rice support has retreated back to a default setting created a quarter of a century ago…. We’re sorta satisfied that we are competing…sorta..and numb beyond that. But listening to some of the comments from other CUSA head coaches at the recent media day about how they are embracing the NIL situation makes me think that our time to meaningfully modernize our approach and participate in upper level college athletics…is increasingly short.

I'm not sure I agree that the $ will follow. Most of the major donors to Rice Athletics I think would be reticent to put their money into NILs. Rather, their preference would be to invest in the individual programs and facilities.

I'd agree with that. And aside from these specific items I get the sense that most avid supporters are already leaning in just to get the Owl Club toward the $2 million mark per annum. Doesn't bode well for needing another $4mil then $8 then $12 per year etc. A major endowment push after "the report" sure would have helped, but no AD in the world would choose emphasizing future funds over current funds.

Well this was predictable. Not happy with what your school is doing with their NIL money? Missed out on that top QB transfer because your school officials didn’t offer the player enough? Start your own NIL.

https://www.si.com/college/2022/08/10/us...ols-wishes

I just don't think we have enough business owners in our alumni base. Those are the guys who can write off the NIL as a business expense.

Where most other schools will have ads like this:

"Hi, I am Joe Superstar from _____ U., and I would like to tell you about the superior service and products you will get from Bill Booster Auto Group"...,

We will have this:

"Hi, I am Jerry Prettygood" from Rice University, and I would like to tell you about the superior care you will receive from my friends at Urology Associates...

(08-09-2022 07:57 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

(08-09-2022 07:40 PM)greyowl72 Wrote:  

(08-09-2022 05:52 PM)owl40 Wrote:  If the AD/Coaches had a plan on how to compete in the revenue (vs. Olympic) sports, I think it would be easy to find the $ to compete on NIL.

Problem is that arrogance combined w/ poor ‘pound the rock’ schemes in FB, not play any defense in MBB, and poor pitching/defense in BB is not inspiring to invest NIL $$ against more losing w/ failed approach. Put a viable plan on how the revenue sports win and I think the $ can follow vs. vice versa.

I think this is the whole problem in a nutshell. At this point, in the major mens’ sports, Rice support has retreated back to a default setting created a quarter of a century ago…. We’re sorta satisfied that we are competing…sorta..and numb beyond that. But listening to some of the comments from other CUSA head coaches at the recent media day about how they are embracing the NIL situation makes me think that our time to meaningfully modernize our approach and participate in upper level college athletics…is increasingly short.

I'm not sure I agree that the $ will follow. Most of the major donors to Rice Athletics I think would be reticent to put their money into NILs. Rather, their preference would be to invest in the individual programs and facilities.

Trust your insight on this, but in the current environment isn't sitting out NILs a de facto vote to move to DIII?

(08-10-2022 09:09 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  Well, here is the REAL question.

How much is a players NIL really worth? I mean, not 'what can they get', but what are the providing and what is it worth?

We're talking about players, many of whom will never see the playing field... or certainly not be the 'image' of a team... being paid by 3rd parties for the use of their images or names, which most people wouldn't know... because they never play. They're just a guy in a 'school's' Uniform.

That really sounds like fraud and a way around 'buying' players... and THAT is fraud.

I mean, the entire TV package of a g5 football team, which is primarily based on the ad revenue that can be generated by that game... is only worth about $5mm (or less) and involves much more than just the players.

So on some levels, I get that paying 36k to 100 players is distributing $3,600,000 of that TV revenue to the people who generate MUCH of what is advertised... but that is GROSS revenue... not NET revenue. Of course it takes a ton of preparation and work and expense to CREATE that product....

So yes, seriously... other than a slush fund of money, what advertising exactly are these entities, who don't get any of that TV revenue... buying?? Are they expected to now work 3 jobs?? School, Football and 'modeling'??

I'm sorry, but this is fraud, and for a state school where the taxpayers are subsidizing the scholarship, that should be a crime.

Yes, I'm serious.

If you want to pay these guys, they are professionals and cannot therefore compete in Amateur Athletics...meaning the NCAA

That's absolutely right. What's going on now is sick. The NCAA should have put It's foot down, and let the P4 separate from us. Now it’s a mess that out of control. Even SMU and North Texas have formed 'collectives' in order to keep up.

I hope Rice says 'no' to any collective that might try to form. We're too good for this. It isn't right. Bring in a good coach, make Rice a great place for amateur athletes on campus, and give them a great education. If we lose, we lose.

(08-10-2022 10:52 AM)Ourland Wrote:  I hope Rice says 'no' to any collective that might try to form. We're too good for this. It isn't right. Bring in a good coach, make Rice a great place for amateur athletes on campus, and give them a great education. If we lose, we lose.

For a purist, this is absolutely the way to go.

And it will definitely lead, not to D-III, but to the abolition of athletics.

(08-10-2022 11:24 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(08-10-2022 10:52 AM)Ourland Wrote:  I hope Rice says 'no' to any collective that might try to form. We're too good for this. It isn't right. Bring in a good coach, make Rice a great place for amateur athletes on campus, and give them a great education. If we lose, we lose.

For a purist, this is absolutely the way to go.

And it will definitely lead, not to D-III, but to the abolition of athletics.

Rice will be fine. It has more than enough to sell student-athletes who are serious about getting an incredible education on a beautiful campus, and those are the students we want. If they can't see that value, we don't need them.

Don't do it Rice.

(08-10-2022 11:24 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(08-10-2022 10:52 AM)Ourland Wrote:  I hope Rice says 'no' to any collective that might try to form. We're too good for this. It isn't right. Bring in a good coach, make Rice a great place for amateur athletes on campus, and give them a great education. If we lose, we lose.

For a purist, this is absolutely the way to go.

And it will definitely lead, not to D-III, but to the abolition of athletics.

Well, if that's the way Rice goes, then arguably it should lead to no athletics.

Rice's pride in being the chastest whore in the bordello is misplaced and misguided. It's not moral high ground, it's just bad business.

(08-10-2022 11:53 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  

(08-10-2022 11:24 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(08-10-2022 10:52 AM)Ourland Wrote:  I hope Rice says 'no' to any collective that might try to form. We're too good for this. It isn't right. Bring in a good coach, make Rice a great place for amateur athletes on campus, and give them a great education. If we lose, we lose.

For a purist, this is absolutely the way to go.

And it will definitely lead, not to D-III, but to the abolition of athletics.

Well, if that's the way Rice goes, then arguably it should lead to no athletics.

Rice's pride in being the chastest whore in the bordello is misplaced and misguided. It's not moral high ground, it's just bad business.

...so Rice just needs to go ahead and sacrifice its principles.

we should instead of being a follower, be a leader...

and start a new NCAA

The NCAA is no longer 'amateur athletes'

(08-10-2022 12:43 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  we should instead of being a follower, be a leader...

and start a new NCAA

The NCAA is no longer 'amateur athletes'

Hell yes! Push back! At least collaborate among the private universities and service academies within the G5 to set a realistic cap on the amount of NIL we are willing to pay.

These kids get everything for free. Everything is paid for. They can work in the Summer months like all the other students if they need extra money. Wait tables for God's sake.

If they get paid any amount for NIL, tax them hard. Where's the IRS in all this? A Democrat is in office. They should be all over this. I'm so pissed!!

They're spoiled! Everything is free!

The realignment board has a growing list of NIL Collectives.

https://csnbbs.com/thread-952441.html

(08-10-2022 01:09 PM)loki_the_bubba Wrote:  The realignment board has a growing list of NIL Collectives.

https://csnbbs.com/thread-952441.html

I've noticed that over the last three weeks. North Texas started one, and now SMU. It looks like, once again, we're being forced to play by rules that the power conferences have set for us. We either jump in, or play at a disadvantage.

I'm so disappointed in the NCAA for letting all of this get out of control. It has no balls whatsoever. It's despicable governing body. There's no other way to describe it. The NCAA has let the power conferences take charge of the entire system.

We're screwed no matter what we try to do. We'll never be able to keep up. Rice can't even raise the money needed for a stadium renovation, much less the millions needed for NIL. It will never happen.

(08-10-2022 01:39 PM)Ourland Wrote:  

(08-10-2022 01:09 PM)loki_the_bubba Wrote:  The realignment board has a growing list of NIL Collectives.

https://csnbbs.com/thread-952441.html

I've noticed that over the last three weeks. North Texas started one, and now SMU. It looks like, once again, we're being forced to play by rules that the power conferences have set for us. We either jump in, or play at a disadvantage.

I'm so disappointed in the NCAA for letting all of this get out of control. It has no balls whatsoever. It's despicable governing body. There's no other way to describe it. The NCAA has let the power conferences take charge of the entire system.

We're screwed no matter what we try to do. We'll never be able to keep up. Rice can't even raise the money needed for a stadium renovation, much less the millions needed for NIL. It will never happen.

This is actually SMU's second. They also have the "Pony Sports DTX". In my mind it seems like the Pony Sports is big bonuses for big players, and this new Boulevard is sort of a 'minimum wage' for everyone.

(08-10-2022 11:34 AM)Ourland Wrote:  

(08-10-2022 11:24 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(08-10-2022 10:52 AM)Ourland Wrote:  I hope Rice says 'no' to any collective that might try to form. We're too good for this. It isn't right. Bring in a good coach, make Rice a great place for amateur athletes on campus, and give them a great education. If we lose, we lose.

For a purist, this is absolutely the way to go.

And it will definitely lead, not to D-III, but to the abolition of athletics.

Rice will be fine. It has more than enough to sell student-athletes who are serious about getting an incredible education on a beautiful campus, and those are the students we want. If they can't see that value, we don't need them.

Don't do it Rice.

So, I can visualize the following scenario. After the 2022 season Rice football goes 4-8 and Coach B is handed his walking papers. A select committee is formed to find a new Coach. One that meets all the criteria this board has talked about. Modern offense. Made to fit the personnel. Lots of passes. Or options. Or whatever. And after interviewing lots of promising candidates a real gem is found. Young. But not too young. A coordinator from a P5 school with Texas roots. Wants to come home and take Rice out of the football wilderness. He gets a big raise over the last HC. Everything is in place…. Oh, by the way, he would like to talk to some of the donors and Owl Club people and…who did you say headed up the NIL group at Rice??? Anybody ? Anybody?
Hmmm. Maybe this isn’t the place for me.

(08-10-2022 01:57 PM)loki_the_bubba Wrote:  

(08-10-2022 01:39 PM)Ourland Wrote:  

(08-10-2022 01:09 PM)loki_the_bubba Wrote:  The realignment board has a growing list of NIL Collectives.

https://csnbbs.com/thread-952441.html

I've noticed that over the last three weeks. North Texas started one, and now SMU. It looks like, once again, we're being forced to play by rules that the power conferences have set for us. We either jump in, or play at a disadvantage.

I'm so disappointed in the NCAA for letting all of this get out of control. It has no balls whatsoever. It's despicable governing body. There's no other way to describe it. The NCAA has let the power conferences take charge of the entire system.

We're screwed no matter what we try to do. We'll never be able to keep up. Rice can't even raise the money needed for a stadium renovation, much less the millions needed for NIL. It will never happen.

This is actually SMU's second. They also have the "Pony Sports DTX". In my mind it seems like the Pony Sports is big bonuses for big players, and this new Boulevard is sort of a 'minimum wage' for everyone.

As far as I'm concerned, student-athletes can sell their NIL on the open market, if there's even demand for it. Universities shouldn't be in the business of indirectly paying players through 'collectives.' It's a bunch of bull. The NCAA has really lost control.

So here's my question...you are the President of SMU and a number of your alumni/boosters have decided to fund in excess of $4MM a year to provide NIL funds to football and basketball players...at some point, how do you assess the effect on contributions to the University to support academic needs that have typically been supported by these same alumni...at some point don't these contributions affect support of the University (not to mention the traditional support of the athletic department for scholarships, operating expenses, etc).

I thought I read somewhere that NIL money can't be tied to attendance at a specific university. Then a player could theoretically take the money and run, and if the booster organization tries to pull the funding the player could cry foul.

Realistically, it would probably be a yearly rolling agreement, and the org would just refuse to renew it for anyone not playing for their university.

I bet this will be policed about as tightly as pre-NIL booster money, at least at the big schools. As in not at all.