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Campbell leaving Big South to join CAA
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jcohen42 Offline
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Post: #61
RE: Campbell leaving Big South to join CAA
(08-08-2022 07:58 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  CAA North (Yankee Conference)
Full (6): Albany, Delaware, Maine, Monmouth, New Hampshire, Stony Brook
NFB (4): Drexel, Hofstra, Northeastern, Vermont
FB-only (2): Rhode Island, Villanova

CAA South (CAA)
Full (7): Campbell, Elon, Hampton, Howard, NC A&T, Towson, William & Mary
NFB (3): Charleston, High Point, UNC Wilmington
FB-only (1): Richmond

The split CAA is one of my favorite thought experiments, so it's interesting to see another take on it. That said, I think there are a couple issues with your proposal. Notably:
  • Maine is a bad add. I don't think any of the current northern schools are interested in adding Maine as a full member. That likely rules out UNH as well.
  • Without UNH and Maine, no shot they add Vermont. Vermont only leaves the AE for the A10.
  • I cannot see Towson being happy being separated from the North. Their travel is much easier in that direction than going down to the Carolinas every other week. Howard makes sense from the HCBU angle, at least.
  • I don't know if there is a strong need to separate out the football leagues. CAA Football can operate as a single entity just fine, since they're not competing for a single autobid. That allows Richmond to stay with Villanova.

One of the reasons the northern schools left the AE in the first place was to get away from trips to Orono to play a perpetual SOS anchor. I just cannot imagine they are itching to restore those annual trips.
08-09-2022 07:58 AM
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solohawks Offline
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Post: #62
RE: Campbell leaving Big South to join CAA
If Howard were to ever give up on the MEAC and join the CAA, the MEAC would collapse with everyone else joining the Big South, NEC, or AEast

It would be logical then for the half of the CAA that takes on Howard to absorb the MEAC charter and split from the CAA

CAA Football could remain as is as a technically stand alone entity with its own bylaws separate from the CAA
(This post was last modified: 08-09-2022 08:08 AM by solohawks.)
08-09-2022 08:07 AM
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Sitting bull Offline
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Post: #63
RE: Campbell leaving Big South to join CAA
(08-05-2022 05:24 PM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  
(08-05-2022 12:24 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  Is Campbell really the best CAA can do at this point? I mean, that the CAA/F can't pick apart these other conferences (like SoCon)...is there something going on within it? I mean, does internal politics get it to this point?

I really don't know how Villanova and Richmond get onboard with this. But then again, looking at the Patriot, if that's the alternative to the likes of Richmond, Villanova, and William & Mary...talk about being between a rock and a hard place.

Good for Campbell, though. I often thought Winthrop had the better shot at the conference. But, if football isn't happening there, it limits some options. Could also be that Winthrop to SoCon becomes a thing?

I am FAR from an expert on this-- but from the outside it appears the CAA and SOCON are at a stalemate. In the past the CAA was the better overall conference IMO (before all their defections).

In fact the SoCon may have a little more momentum at this point due to strong basketball NET rating, geographic closeness, continuity, and relatively strong football.

It does not appear either would have the strength to poach from the other at this point.

Also the SoCon is not a hybrid like the CAA which keeps all its members focused on one organization.

In short the CAA does not have the power it did at one time.

The CAA and A10 already poached the top schools in the So Con. At this point, the CAA doesn’t need any additional southern members and outside Furman and UNCG, I’m not sure there was ever any interest for the balance. I don’t think the CAA is worried about losing anyone to the So Con. UNCW was really the only possibility - I guess they just didn’t see the value of this So Con basketball juggernaut. And the CAA smartly back filled for them on this latest expansion adding some in- state rivals.

If I were in the So Con, my only concern would be the opportunities lost between Campbell and NC A&T. They both could have been decent future adds for them. As is, they have a nice, solid league that is currently stable.
08-09-2022 10:01 AM
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Yosef181 Offline
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Post: #64
RE: Campbell leaving Big South to join CAA
(08-09-2022 10:01 AM)Sitting bull Wrote:  
(08-05-2022 05:24 PM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  
(08-05-2022 12:24 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  Is Campbell really the best CAA can do at this point? I mean, that the CAA/F can't pick apart these other conferences (like SoCon)...is there something going on within it? I mean, does internal politics get it to this point?

I really don't know how Villanova and Richmond get onboard with this. But then again, looking at the Patriot, if that's the alternative to the likes of Richmond, Villanova, and William & Mary...talk about being between a rock and a hard place.

Good for Campbell, though. I often thought Winthrop had the better shot at the conference. But, if football isn't happening there, it limits some options. Could also be that Winthrop to SoCon becomes a thing?

I am FAR from an expert on this-- but from the outside it appears the CAA and SOCON are at a stalemate. In the past the CAA was the better overall conference IMO (before all their defections).

In fact the SoCon may have a little more momentum at this point due to strong basketball NET rating, geographic closeness, continuity, and relatively strong football.

It does not appear either would have the strength to poach from the other at this point.

Also the SoCon is not a hybrid like the CAA which keeps all its members focused on one organization.

In short the CAA does not have the power it did at one time.

The CAA and A10 already poached the top schools in the So Con. At this point, the CAA doesn’t need any additional southern members and outside Furman and UNCG, I’m not sure there was ever any interest for the balance. I don’t think the CAA is worried about losing anyone to the So Con. UNCW was really the only possibility - I guess they just didn’t see the value of this So Con basketball juggernaut. And the CAA smartly back filled for them on this latest expansion adding some in- state rivals.

If I were in the So Con, my only concern would be the opportunities lost between Campbell and NC A&T. They both could have been decent future adds for them. As is, they have a nice, solid league that is currently stable.

I hate to be the one to break this to you, but Elon was not one of the top schools in the SoCon.
(This post was last modified: 08-09-2022 10:44 AM by Yosef181.)
08-09-2022 10:44 AM
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Sitting bull Offline
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Post: #65
RE: Campbell leaving Big South to join CAA
(08-09-2022 10:44 AM)Yosef181 Wrote:  
(08-09-2022 10:01 AM)Sitting bull Wrote:  
(08-05-2022 05:24 PM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  
(08-05-2022 12:24 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  Is Campbell really the best CAA can do at this point? I mean, that the CAA/F can't pick apart these other conferences (like SoCon)...is there something going on within it? I mean, does internal politics get it to this point?

I really don't know how Villanova and Richmond get onboard with this. But then again, looking at the Patriot, if that's the alternative to the likes of Richmond, Villanova, and William & Mary...talk about being between a rock and a hard place.

Good for Campbell, though. I often thought Winthrop had the better shot at the conference. But, if football isn't happening there, it limits some options. Could also be that Winthrop to SoCon becomes a thing?

I am FAR from an expert on this-- but from the outside it appears the CAA and SOCON are at a stalemate. In the past the CAA was the better overall conference IMO (before all their defections).

In fact the SoCon may have a little more momentum at this point due to strong basketball NET rating, geographic closeness, continuity, and relatively strong football.

It does not appear either would have the strength to poach from the other at this point.

Also the SoCon is not a hybrid like the CAA which keeps all its members focused on one organization.

In short the CAA does not have the power it did at one time.

The CAA and A10 already poached the top schools in the So Con. At this point, the CAA doesn’t need any additional southern members and outside Furman and UNCG, I’m not sure there was ever any interest for the balance. I don’t think the CAA is worried about losing anyone to the So Con. UNCW was really the only possibility - I guess they just didn’t see the value of this So Con basketball juggernaut. And the CAA smartly back filled for them on this latest expansion adding some in- state rivals.

If I were in the So Con, my only concern would be the opportunities lost between Campbell and NC A&T. They both could have been decent future adds for them. As is, they have a nice, solid league that is currently stable.

I hate to be the one to break this to you, but Elon was not one of the top schools in the SoCon.

Well the So Con prez must have thought so, he pitched a fit. Elon ranks 83rd nationally among all colleges, which would rank #1 if they were in So Con, they have beautiful facilities and are one of the fastest growing schools in the south. They also got their first FCS playoff invite in football while in the So Con.

Point is 2 schools left So Con for CAA. Neither is regretting the shift. No schools have even flirted going from CAA to So Con.
(This post was last modified: 08-09-2022 12:07 PM by Sitting bull.)
08-09-2022 12:01 PM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #66
RE: Campbell leaving Big South to join CAA
(08-09-2022 07:58 AM)jcohen42 Wrote:  
(08-08-2022 07:58 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  CAA North (Yankee Conference)
Full (6): Albany, Delaware, Maine, Monmouth, New Hampshire, Stony Brook
NFB (4): Drexel, Hofstra, Northeastern, Vermont
FB-only (2): Rhode Island, Villanova

CAA South (CAA)
Full (7): Campbell, Elon, Hampton, Howard, NC A&T, Towson, William & Mary
NFB (3): Charleston, High Point, UNC Wilmington
FB-only (1): Richmond

The split CAA is one of my favorite thought experiments, so it's interesting to see another take on it. That said, I think there are a couple issues with your proposal. Notably:
  • Maine is a bad add. I don't think any of the current northern schools are interested in adding Maine as a full member. That likely rules out UNH as well.
  • Without UNH and Maine, no shot they add Vermont. Vermont only leaves the AE for the A10.
  • I cannot see Towson being happy being separated from the North. Their travel is much easier in that direction than going down to the Carolinas every other week. Howard makes sense from the HCBU angle, at least.
  • I don't know if there is a strong need to separate out the football leagues. CAA Football can operate as a single entity just fine, since they're not competing for a single autobid. That allows Richmond to stay with Villanova.

One of the reasons the northern schools left the AE in the first place was to get away from trips to Orono to play a perpetual SOS anchor. I just cannot imagine they are itching to restore those annual trips.

How about something like this?

CAA North (Yankee Conference)
Full (5): Albany, Delaware, Monmouth, Stony Brook, Towson
NFB (4): Drexel, Hofstra, Northeastern, UMBC
FB-only (4): Maine, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, Villanova

CAA South (CAA)
Full (7): Campbell, Elon, Gardner-Webb, Hampton, Howard, NC A&T, William & Mary
NFB (3): Charleston, UNC Wilmington, Winthrop
FB-only (1): Richmond

America East
NFB (9): Binghamton, Bryant, LIU, Maine, New Hampshire, NJIT, Sacred Heart, UMass Lowell, Vermont

Big South
Full (4): Charleston Southern, NC Central, Norfolk State, SC State
NFB (6): High Point, Longwood, Presbyterian, Radford, UNC Asheville, USC Upstate
FB-only (3): Bryant, LIU, Sacred Heart

NEC
Full (7): CCSU, Delaware State, Merrimack, Morgan State, St. Francis-PA, Stonehill, Wagner
NFB (4): Coppin State, FDU, St. Francis-NY, UMES
FB-only (1): Duquesne

OVC
Full (5): Eastern Illinois, Lindenwood, Southeast Missouri, Tennessee Tech, Tennessee-Martin
NFB (4): Little Rock, Morehead State, SIU Edwardsville, Southern Indiana
FB-only (1): Robert Morris
(Tennessee State to ASUN)

As for splitting up the CAA's FB schools, why maintain a single-autobid FCS league of 15-17 schools if you don't have to? Also, I didn't think there was a strong Richmond/Villanova FB rivalry, but if so they can still play OOC.
(This post was last modified: 08-09-2022 01:04 PM by Nerdlinger.)
08-09-2022 12:59 PM
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jcohen42 Offline
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Post: #67
RE: Campbell leaving Big South to join CAA
From an all-sports perspective, yeah that seems to be pretty much ideal for the north. I might try to snag Fairfield to get to an even 10. I won't purport to know enough about the southern schools to comment on the specific arrangement, but the addition of Winthrop would certainly make things interesting.

As for football, again, not going to purport to know the inner workings of those schools. I just get the sense that the larger arrangement works out of convenience, and the autobid isn't so much of a priority with the FBS/FCS split. But perhaps down the line when something like this would actually occur, it would make sense to have separate football charters and simply schedule each other OOC as desired.
08-09-2022 01:40 PM
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Sitting bull Offline
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Post: #68
RE: Campbell leaving Big South to join CAA
(08-09-2022 12:59 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(08-09-2022 07:58 AM)jcohen42 Wrote:  
(08-08-2022 07:58 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  CAA North (Yankee Conference)
Full (6): Albany, Delaware, Maine, Monmouth, New Hampshire, Stony Brook
NFB (4): Drexel, Hofstra, Northeastern, Vermont
FB-only (2): Rhode Island, Villanova

CAA South (CAA)
Full (7): Campbell, Elon, Hampton, Howard, NC A&T, Towson, William & Mary
NFB (3): Charleston, High Point, UNC Wilmington
FB-only (1): Richmond

The split CAA is one of my favorite thought experiments, so it's interesting to see another take on it. That said, I think there are a couple issues with your proposal. Notably:
  • Maine is a bad add. I don't think any of the current northern schools are interested in adding Maine as a full member. That likely rules out UNH as well.
  • Without UNH and Maine, no shot they add Vermont. Vermont only leaves the AE for the A10.
  • I cannot see Towson being happy being separated from the North. Their travel is much easier in that direction than going down to the Carolinas every other week. Howard makes sense from the HCBU angle, at least.
  • I don't know if there is a strong need to separate out the football leagues. CAA Football can operate as a single entity just fine, since they're not competing for a single autobid. That allows Richmond to stay with Villanova.

One of the reasons the northern schools left the AE in the first place was to get away from trips to Orono to play a perpetual SOS anchor. I just cannot imagine they are itching to restore those annual trips.

How about something like this?

CAA North (Yankee Conference)
Full (5): Albany, Delaware, Monmouth, Stony Brook, Towson
NFB (4): Drexel, Hofstra, Northeastern, UMBC
FB-only (4): Maine, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, Villanova

CAA South (CAA)
Full (7): Campbell, Elon, Gardner-Webb, Hampton, Howard, NC A&T, William & Mary
NFB (3): Charleston, UNC Wilmington, Winthrop
FB-only (1): Richmond

America East
NFB (9): Binghamton, Bryant, LIU, Maine, New Hampshire, NJIT, Sacred Heart, UMass Lowell, Vermont

Big South
Full (4): Charleston Southern, NC Central, Norfolk State, SC State
NFB (6): High Point, Longwood, Presbyterian, Radford, UNC Asheville, USC Upstate
FB-only (3): Bryant, LIU, Sacred Heart

NEC
Full (7): CCSU, Delaware State, Merrimack, Morgan State, St. Francis-PA, Stonehill, Wagner
NFB (4): Coppin State, FDU, St. Francis-NY, UMES
FB-only (1): Duquesne

OVC
Full (5): Eastern Illinois, Lindenwood, Southeast Missouri, Tennessee Tech, Tennessee-Martin
NFB (4): Little Rock, Morehead State, SIU Edwardsville, Southern Indiana
FB-only (1): Robert Morris
(Tennessee State to ASUN)

As for splitting up the CAA's FB schools, why maintain a single-autobid FCS league of 15-17 schools if you don't have to? Also, I didn't think there was a strong Richmond/Villanova FB rivalry, but if so they can still play OOC.

I think the CAA might add two more tops, 16 the ceiling. Or maybe we’re just done unless the objective was to reach 10 all sports members which would lean to a football entry. UAlbany would be the easiest. UNH would be super but I don’t think they have a big focus beyond New England.

Howard is out. Campbell took their spot. Fairfield is still a possibility. I don’t think anyone else in the south is in the running though so many on here seem to like Winthrop.

But as some have questioned, I’m not sure what the end game might be. They seem to me to have settled the two biggest concerns, travel costs and all sports stability.
08-09-2022 01:45 PM
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GreatDane96 Offline
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Post: #69
RE: Campbell leaving Big South to join CAA
(08-09-2022 01:40 PM)jcohen42 Wrote:  From an all-sports perspective, yeah that seems to be pretty much ideal for the north. I might try to snag Fairfield to get to an even 10. I won't purport to know enough about the southern schools to comment on the specific arrangement, but the addition of Winthrop would certainly make things interesting.

As for football, again, not going to purport to know the inner workings of those schools. I just get the sense that the larger arrangement works out of convenience, and the autobid isn't so much of a priority with the FBS/FCS split. But perhaps down the line when something like this would actually occur, it would make sense to have separate football charters and simply schedule each other OOC as desired.

I don't see the CAA going above 16. If it is 16, which I am still unsure they will go past 14, then it is likely down to Fairfield, Albany, High Point, and Winthrop...my guess is will be the first two. For your scenario to happen, , the CAA North would need to split. Without knowing the direction the President's have given for today, I don't believe that will occur until any major FBS changes occur. In that world, I think the North group would go to 10-12 and look something like:

1.Northeastern
2.Stony Brook
3. Hofstra
4.Monmouth
5. Drexel
6. Delaware
7. Towson

Likely Adds:

8. Albany #172 USNWR; Carnegie R1; $492mm athletic budget; $24mm athletic budget

9. Fairfield #3 Regional North USWNR, Carnegie D/PU, $171 academic budget; $21mm athletic budget

With one to three of the following adds, in perceived order of likely preference for the CAA North group (from what I am hearing):

10. UNH- #136 National USNWR, Carnegie R1, $450mm academic budget; $28mm athletic budget. Is the third time a charm or do they stick to their Maine partnership.

11. UMBC- USWNR #162, Carnegie R1, $356mm academic budget; $17mm athletic budget. Solidifies the southern wing road trip partner. Clearly want to spend money on hoops.

12. Binghamton #83 National USNWR, Carnegie R1, $443 academic budget; 20mm athletic budget. Likely adding a hockey program, added a sparkling new baseball stadium, academic prowess, and long past the Kevin Broadus era.

13. Quinnipiac #148 National USNWR, Carnegie D/PU, $250mm academic budget. $28mm athletic budget. Their main issues are a lack of fan base and some admins thinking they are "hired guns" waiting to go off. Paired with Fairfield to tie up the corridor.

Monmouth would be the "center" of the league. The average trip from center is about 2:45. The shortest trip is 1:45 minutes (Drexel). The longest trip from center is to Northeastern (4:45). The longest end-end-end trip is Towson/UMBC to Northeastern (6:45, and in existence today).

If college athletics keeps moving towards a direction that we are seeing, this is a very probable scenario if, and only if, the CAA North/Split occurs.

Long Shots:

1. Iona #55 Regional North USWNR, Carnegie Masters $84mm academic budget; $14mm athletic budget. (poor academics, poor academic budget / school budget, poor athletic budget /one trick pony
2. Maine (distance)- otherwise checks the boxes
3. Vermont (distance and desire, and long standing issues with former AE members)- otherwise checks the boxes
4. Marist #10 Regional North USWNR, Carnegie Masters ($163mm academic budget; $15mm athletic budget. Would need serious upgrades to athletic facilities.
(This post was last modified: 08-09-2022 02:49 PM by GreatDane96.)
08-09-2022 02:45 PM
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ccd494 Offline
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Post: #70
RE: Campbell leaving Big South to join CAA
(08-09-2022 07:58 AM)jcohen42 Wrote:  One of the reasons the northern schools left the AE in the first place was to get away from trips to Orono to play a perpetual SOS anchor. I just cannot imagine they are itching to restore those annual trips.

I mean, let's relax a bit. Maine basketball is bad now, but at the time that prior defections were announced from the AE/NAC:

2021 (Stony Brook): yes, Maine is atrocious.

7/1/2012 (Boston Univ): three prior years Maine 12-17 (6-10) (7th); Maine 15-15 (9-7) (3rd); Maine 19-11 (11-5) (3rd).

6/3/2004 (Northeastern): three prior years Maine 20-10 (12-6) (4th); Maine 14-16 (8-8) (5th); Maine 12-18 (7-9) (5th)

12/12/2000 (Delaware/Drexel/Hofstra): including mid-year announced departure Maine 18-11 (10-8) (4th); Maine 24-7 (15-3) (2nd); Maine 19-9 (13-5) (4th)

Pointing to Maine as the reason for any departure here is a bit rich. Maine was very, very good at men's basketball for the AE/NAC in the late 90's/early 00's. Maine is also a 4 hour drive from Boston for NU/BU. And it's not like UD/Drexel/Hofstra are right next door to UNC Wilmington. Heck, there are direct flights from Philly, LaGuardia, and Newark to Bangor.

Now, could Maine compete in the CAA in anything outside football (barely) and women's basketball (definitely) right now? Absolutely not. The financial picture for UMaine has changed completely since the 90's heyday. But let's not get into some sort of "Maine has always sucked and drove everyone out of the conference" revisionist history.
08-09-2022 03:28 PM
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Yosef Himself Offline
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Post: #71
RE: Campbell leaving Big South to join CAA
God, be away from FCS for a decade and you forget all about those absolute athletic scrubs at Bill&Mary.

The CAA might be a decent conference. It isn't because of anything those snooty ***** have done.
(This post was last modified: 08-09-2022 03:36 PM by Yosef Himself.)
08-09-2022 03:33 PM
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jcohen42 Offline
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Post: #72
RE: Campbell leaving Big South to join CAA
(08-09-2022 02:45 PM)GreatDane96 Wrote:  
(08-09-2022 01:40 PM)jcohen42 Wrote:  From an all-sports perspective, yeah that seems to be pretty much ideal for the north. I might try to snag Fairfield to get to an even 10. I won't purport to know enough about the southern schools to comment on the specific arrangement, but the addition of Winthrop would certainly make things interesting.

As for football, again, not going to purport to know the inner workings of those schools. I just get the sense that the larger arrangement works out of convenience, and the autobid isn't so much of a priority with the FBS/FCS split. But perhaps down the line when something like this would actually occur, it would make sense to have separate football charters and simply schedule each other OOC as desired.

I don't see the CAA going above 16. If it is 16, which I am still unsure they will go past 14, then it is likely down to Fairfield, Albany, High Point, and Winthrop...my guess is will be the first two. For your scenario to happen, , the CAA North would need to split. Without knowing the direction the President's have given for today, I don't believe that will occur until any major FBS changes occur. In that world, I think the North group would go to 10-12 and look something like...

I mean, yeah. The discussion you are replying to was completely hypothetical, and based on the premise that the CAA North was splitting.
(This post was last modified: 08-09-2022 06:52 PM by jcohen42.)
08-09-2022 06:52 PM
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GreatDane96 Offline
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Post: #73
RE: Campbell leaving Big South to join CAA
(08-09-2022 06:52 PM)jcohen42 Wrote:  
(08-09-2022 02:45 PM)GreatDane96 Wrote:  
(08-09-2022 01:40 PM)jcohen42 Wrote:  From an all-sports perspective, yeah that seems to be pretty much ideal for the north. I might try to snag Fairfield to get to an even 10. I won't purport to know enough about the southern schools to comment on the specific arrangement, but the addition of Winthrop would certainly make things interesting.

As for football, again, not going to purport to know the inner workings of those schools. I just get the sense that the larger arrangement works out of convenience, and the autobid isn't so much of a priority with the FBS/FCS split. But perhaps down the line when something like this would actually occur, it would make sense to have separate football charters and simply schedule each other OOC as desired.

I don't see the CAA going above 16. If it is 16, which I am still unsure they will go past 14, then it is likely down to Fairfield, Albany, High Point, and Winthrop...my guess is will be the first two. For your scenario to happen, , the CAA North would need to split. Without knowing the direction the President's have given for today, I don't believe that will occur until any major FBS changes occur. In that world, I think the North group would go to 10-12 and look something like...

I mean, yeah. The discussion you are replying to was completely hypothetical, and based on the premise that the CAA North was splitting.

I understood it was hypothetical, however i had modified the post and took out some stuff and that got lost. Honestly thought, I do think the CAA will split...i just don't see the CAA going back to two bids with the adds. Nothing wrong with the adds but anything over 12 is super-unwieldy.
08-09-2022 07:03 PM
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ccd494 Offline
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Post: #74
RE: Campbell leaving Big South to join CAA
Setting aside the Maine slander above, I don't see a split between UVM/UMaine/UNH for one or two to join a CAA North breakaway for a few reasons.

For UVM: What's the point? America East has been ranked below the CAA basically since the 2000 defections. Since then, UVM has made the NCAA tournament 8 times. Before that, zero. Granted TJ Sorrentine and Taylor Coppenrath played a big part in that change, as did UVM playing their hand very very well after Sorrentine hit his shot from the parking lot against Syracuse. But they would have a heck of a lot harder time making an NCAA tournament in the CAA North Breakaway Conference. Also, UVM has made the tournament 4 times since VCU/ODU/etc. left the CAA. They've been seeded equally or better to the CAA entrant twice, and worse twice. Both leagues would be one bid (pending NCAA tournament changes). If UVM takes care of its own business, UVM would be fine in a degraded America East.

For UNH: How many sports would UNH be competitive in the CAA North? Men's soccer, definitely. Other than that? UNH doesn't offer lacrosse or baseball. Men's basketball's head is barely above water in America East. Would it be worth throwing away over a century with Maine and UVM to be a bottom feeder? Look up how UNH did, historically, in the NAC. In everything. It wasn't pretty.

For Maine: Unless the CAA North really wanted UVM and UNH, and UVM and UNH dug in their heels and said "Maine too, or we're not coming" we aren't getting in. Deservedly. I would point out that Maine would be more competitive than UNH (women's hoops would be at or near the top of the league, as would field hockey, and baseball would be reasonable). I do find it funny that there is now a league stretching from New Jersey to Los Angeles and hopping on a 1.5 hour flight from Philadelphia to Bangor is a deal breaker.
08-10-2022 08:52 AM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #75
RE: Campbell leaving Big South to join CAA
New Haven and possible two more D2 football members could be invited to MEAC.

Big South only possible grab from D2 would be North Carolina-Pembroke.
08-10-2022 04:43 PM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #76
RE: Campbell leaving Big South to join CAA
(08-09-2022 10:01 AM)Sitting bull Wrote:  If I were in the So Con, my only concern would be the opportunities lost between Campbell and NC A&T. They both could have been decent future adds for them. As is, they have a nice, solid league that is currently stable.

SoCon is at the forefront of any CAA criticism I have, and the "wait it out" bit. Because I suspect all is not well within SoCon. I don't know about A&T or Campbell (I know another NC football program wouldn't hurt), but Hampton was a miss for them, imo. I would also love to know if the conference tried at all to pull all of Belmont over at any time before this move to MVC, instead of just offering an associate membership for soccer. And if they passed on Belmont for full membership...just ew.

So, I just can't believe SoCon is that hard of a proverbial nut to crack for CAA. But, then again, I'm sure there's some ill will from current SoCon members against its former ones who went to CAA (I'm thinking more Elon than CoC). Or, since we've heard about politics within CAA, maybe the current southern schools want no part or see little value in SoCon schools (and can hold CAA membership above them)?

As for CAA splitting...I wonder, at the point. The full-membership backfills/growth have brought football and lacrosse. It's not a conference that necessarily needs affiliate members in those sports anymore, though the associate football members do make the conference better.
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Yosef Himself Offline
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Post: #77
RE: Campbell leaving Big South to join CAA
The SoCon just recently voted unanimously to raise the exit fee from $1 million to $2 million.
Yesterday 03:26 PM
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solohawks Offline
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Post: #78
RE: Campbell leaving Big South to join CAA
(Yesterday 03:19 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(08-09-2022 10:01 AM)Sitting bull Wrote:  If I were in the So Con, my only concern would be the opportunities lost between Campbell and NC A&T. They both could have been decent future adds for them. As is, they have a nice, solid league that is currently stable.

SoCon is at the forefront of any CAA criticism I have, and the "wait it out" bit. Because I suspect all is not well within SoCon. I don't know about A&T or Campbell (I know another NC football program wouldn't hurt), but Hampton was a miss for them, imo. I would also love to know if the conference tried at all to pull all of Belmont over at any time before this move to MVC, instead of just offering an associate membership for soccer. And if they passed on Belmont for full membership...just ew.

So, I just can't believe SoCon is that hard of a proverbial nut to crack for CAA. But, then again, I'm sure there's some ill will from current SoCon members against its former ones who went to CAA (I'm thinking more Elon than CoC). Or, since we've heard about politics within CAA, maybe the current southern schools want no part or see little value in SoCon schools (and can hold CAA membership above them)?

As for CAA splitting...I wonder, at the point. The full-membership backfills/growth have brought football and lacrosse. It's not a conference that necessarily needs affiliate members in those sports anymore, though the associate football members do make the conference better.

The SoCon is happy with what they are.

They don't want a new large App St/Ga Southern style public school

All the schools like playing each other and its virtually a bus league.

Furman, the school the CAA wanted the most, is at the center of the conference, so why leave?

They should have tried to add Belmont if Belmont was interested, but Belmont may have wanted MVC

UNCG and Furman have both been sought after by the CAA and have rejected the Colonial
Yesterday 03:41 PM
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Yosef181 Offline
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Post: #79
RE: Campbell leaving Big South to join CAA
(Yesterday 03:41 PM)solohawks Wrote:  
(Yesterday 03:19 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(08-09-2022 10:01 AM)Sitting bull Wrote:  If I were in the So Con, my only concern would be the opportunities lost between Campbell and NC A&T. They both could have been decent future adds for them. As is, they have a nice, solid league that is currently stable.

SoCon is at the forefront of any CAA criticism I have, and the "wait it out" bit. Because I suspect all is not well within SoCon. I don't know about A&T or Campbell (I know another NC football program wouldn't hurt), but Hampton was a miss for them, imo. I would also love to know if the conference tried at all to pull all of Belmont over at any time before this move to MVC, instead of just offering an associate membership for soccer. And if they passed on Belmont for full membership...just ew.

So, I just can't believe SoCon is that hard of a proverbial nut to crack for CAA. But, then again, I'm sure there's some ill will from current SoCon members against its former ones who went to CAA (I'm thinking more Elon than CoC). Or, since we've heard about politics within CAA, maybe the current southern schools want no part or see little value in SoCon schools (and can hold CAA membership above them)?

As for CAA splitting...I wonder, at the point. The full-membership backfills/growth have brought football and lacrosse. It's not a conference that necessarily needs affiliate members in those sports anymore, though the associate football members do make the conference better.

The SoCon is happy with what they are.

They don't want a new large App St/Ga Southern style public school

All the schools like playing each other and its virtually a bus league.

Furman, the school the CAA wanted the most, is at the center of the conference, so why leave?

They should have tried to add Belmont if Belmont was interested, but Belmont may have wanted MVC

UNCG and Furman have both been sought after by the CAA and have rejected the Colonial

Well, UNCG is in the wrong conference then.
Yesterday 03:55 PM
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solohawks Offline
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Post: #80
RE: Campbell leaving Big South to join CAA
(Yesterday 03:55 PM)Yosef181 Wrote:  
(Yesterday 03:41 PM)solohawks Wrote:  
(Yesterday 03:19 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(08-09-2022 10:01 AM)Sitting bull Wrote:  If I were in the So Con, my only concern would be the opportunities lost between Campbell and NC A&T. They both could have been decent future adds for them. As is, they have a nice, solid league that is currently stable.

SoCon is at the forefront of any CAA criticism I have, and the "wait it out" bit. Because I suspect all is not well within SoCon. I don't know about A&T or Campbell (I know another NC football program wouldn't hurt), but Hampton was a miss for them, imo. I would also love to know if the conference tried at all to pull all of Belmont over at any time before this move to MVC, instead of just offering an associate membership for soccer. And if they passed on Belmont for full membership...just ew.

So, I just can't believe SoCon is that hard of a proverbial nut to crack for CAA. But, then again, I'm sure there's some ill will from current SoCon members against its former ones who went to CAA (I'm thinking more Elon than CoC). Or, since we've heard about politics within CAA, maybe the current southern schools want no part or see little value in SoCon schools (and can hold CAA membership above them)?

As for CAA splitting...I wonder, at the point. The full-membership backfills/growth have brought football and lacrosse. It's not a conference that necessarily needs affiliate members in those sports anymore, though the associate football members do make the conference better.

The SoCon is happy with what they are.

They don't want a new large App St/Ga Southern style public school

All the schools like playing each other and its virtually a bus league.

Furman, the school the CAA wanted the most, is at the center of the conference, so why leave?

They should have tried to add Belmont if Belmont was interested, but Belmont may have wanted MVC

UNCG and Furman have both been sought after by the CAA and have rejected the Colonial

Well, UNCG is in the wrong conference then.

UNCG would fit much better in the new CAA South

But with the SoCons recent success in basketball and the previous $1M now $2M exit fee, it just didn't make sense to switch.

Like ECU and the AAC it just makes more sense for UNCG to stay put despite likely having a better cultural fit elsewhere
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