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UIW mens soccer booted from WAC
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johnbragg Online
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Post: #41
RE: UIW mens soccer booted from WAC
(08-04-2022 06:20 AM)jimrtex Wrote:  
(08-03-2022 10:15 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  Thanks again for the MPSF and WAC soccer history lesson. Even if the MPSF sponsors soccer again, why would a relatively “poor” school like UIW, “prefer” to play only schools 2 time zones away and not remain in the WAC with 2 other Texas schools?
There are only four DI schools in Texas that sponsor men's soccer: SMU, UIW, HBU, and UTRGV. There are none in Louisiana, Mississippi, Kansas, or New Mexico.

There are two in OK (Tulsa and ORU), one in Arkansas (Central Arkansas), and two in Colorado (AFA and DU).

If MPSF re-forms soccer, HBU would presumably move.

AFA, UNLV, HBU and San Jose State would be common to both configurations.

San Diego State, Washington, Oregon State, Cal, Stanford

vs.

UTRGV, Grand Canyon, Utah Tech, Utah Valley, Cal Baptist, Seattle.

I don't see much difference.

Except that the WAC men's soccer league is a real thing with a schedule for 2022-23, while MPSF men's soccer is basically something you made up.
08-04-2022 06:42 AM
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AssKickingChicken Offline
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Post: #42
RE: UIW mens soccer booted from WAC
Does the MPSF actively seek out sports to sponsor or do schools go to them if six or so random schools need a home for an orphaned sport?
08-04-2022 07:16 AM
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Todor Offline
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Post: #43
RE: UIW mens soccer booted from WAC
(08-03-2022 10:15 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  Thanks again for the MPSF and WAC soccer history lesson. Even if the MPSF sponsors soccer again, why would a relatively “poor” school like UIW, “prefer” to play only schools 2 time zones away and not remain in the WAC with 2 other Texas schools?

Good grief, the lengths some people will go to to try to “prove” the WAC didn’t boot UIW soccer is astonishing. I doubt the WAC executive committee or the UIW athletic director gave it as much thought—let alone writing a thesis about it.
08-04-2022 07:29 AM
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jimrtex Online
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Post: #44
RE: UIW mens soccer booted from WAC
(08-04-2022 06:42 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(08-04-2022 06:20 AM)jimrtex Wrote:  
(08-03-2022 10:15 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  Thanks again for the MPSF and WAC soccer history lesson. Even if the MPSF sponsors soccer again, why would a relatively “poor” school like UIW, “prefer” to play only schools 2 time zones away and not remain in the WAC with 2 other Texas schools?
There are only four DI schools in Texas that sponsor men's soccer: SMU, UIW, HBU, and UTRGV. There are none in Louisiana, Mississippi, Kansas, or New Mexico.

There are two in OK (Tulsa and ORU), one in Arkansas (Central Arkansas), and two in Colorado (AFA and DU).

If MPSF re-forms soccer, HBU would presumably move.

AFA, UNLV, HBU and San Jose State would be common to both configurations.

San Diego State, Washington, Oregon State, Cal, Stanford

vs.

UTRGV, Grand Canyon, Utah Tech, Utah Valley, Cal Baptist, Seattle.

I don't see much difference.

Except that the WAC men's soccer league is a real thing with a schedule for 2022-23, while MPSF men's soccer is basically something you made up.
UW, OSU, Stanford, Cal, AFA, San Jose State, and UIW are all current members of the MPSF.

The MPSF sponsored men's soccer from 1992-2012. During that time the Pac-12 and Big West pulled out. The MPSF became WAC soccer to keep the WAC alive after they lost football. Seattle and CSU-Bakersfield had been members and they recruited Grand Canyon and UMKC. CSU-Bakersfield and UMKC have since left the WAC, but Utah Valley, Dixie State, and Cal Baptist were recruited, and UTRGV added soccer. UIW and HBU affiliated.

There have never been more than 5 Pac-12 members. When they first split off they only had the five. They then added Fresno State. I think there might have a rule that gave an AQ to five schools, but then was increased to six so they had to grab Fresno State. Fresno State dropped soccer, so they went with five again, and then added San Diego State.

With UW, Stanford, and Cal looking to jump to the B1G, I'm not so sure that I'd commit to keeping the Pac-12 soccer alive. With the Pac-12 telling San Diego State they are unworthy, it is hypocritical to welcome them for soccer. This goes double or triple for San Jose State or UNLV.

If MPSF soccer were restarted, it is at least conceivable that UCLA would join. USC does not have soccer, so Rutgers would be flying out for a single game, and UCLA would have to make four or five trips to the east (only two of the current B1G schools are from the west: Northwestern and Wisconsin - no Illinois, Minnesota, Iowa, or Nebraska).
08-04-2022 07:56 AM
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Post: #45
RE: UIW mens soccer booted from WAC
(08-04-2022 07:29 AM)Todor Wrote:  
(08-03-2022 10:15 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  Thanks again for the MPSF and WAC soccer history lesson. Even if the MPSF sponsors soccer again, why would a relatively “poor” school like UIW, “prefer” to play only schools 2 time zones away and not remain in the WAC with 2 other Texas schools?

Good grief, the lengths some people will go to to try to “prove” the WAC didn’t boot UIW soccer is astonishing. I doubt the WAC executive committee or the UIW athletic director gave it as much thought—let alone writing a thesis about it.

Yup. The UIW AD just decided to quit the WAC and scramble together an independent soccer schedule, weeks before the season starts. Brilliant thinking by some on here!
08-04-2022 09:48 AM
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AssKickingChicken Offline
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Post: #46
RE: UIW mens soccer booted from WAC
Here's what I think happened.

WAC was having a meeting with all the ADs and sports reps.

Football guy: Man, UIW bailing at the last minute really screwed up our schedules. Now we all have holes to fill a month before the season starts. Wish we could get back at them somehow.

Men's soccer guy: I hear you on schedules. We all have to find a spare game in the middle of conference season thanks to being in a league with an odd number. Wish we could fix that somehow.

WAC Commissioner: I have an idea. Your wishes are granted.
08-06-2022 12:53 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #47
RE: UIW mens soccer booted from WAC
I think at least one more MWC school is going to be moving their soccer team to the PAC 10 for 2024.
08-06-2022 01:33 PM
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DoubleRSU Offline
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Post: #48
RE: UIW mens soccer booted from WAC
(08-06-2022 01:33 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I think at least one more MWC school is going to be moving their soccer team to the PAC 10 for 2024.

Who is the first?
08-06-2022 02:19 PM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #49
RE: UIW mens soccer booted from WAC
(08-06-2022 02:19 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  
(08-06-2022 01:33 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I think at least one more MWC school is going to be moving their soccer team to the PAC 10 for 2024.

Who is the first?

San Diego State...
08-06-2022 03:25 PM
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AssKickingChicken Offline
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Post: #50
RE: UIW mens soccer booted from WAC
(08-06-2022 01:33 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I think at least one more MWC school is going to be moving their soccer team to the PAC 10 for 2024.

Why would they do this? Why aren't they in the PAC 10 now?
08-06-2022 04:27 PM
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DoubleRSU Offline
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Post: #51
RE: UIW mens soccer booted from WAC
(08-06-2022 03:25 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(08-06-2022 02:19 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  
(08-06-2022 01:33 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I think at least one more MWC school is going to be moving their soccer team to the PAC 10 for 2024.

Who is the first?

San Diego State...

They’re already in the Pac 12 for soccer. Your wording indicates that one MWC school recently moved to the Pac 12 or that 1 team is already scheduled for 2024.
08-06-2022 04:58 PM
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Stugray2 Offline
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Post: #52
RE: UIW mens soccer booted from WAC
Here is what really happened. When UIW said they were joining the WAC, their affiliate membership was not renewed because they accepted becoming a full member and didn't need affiliate membership going forward. But then UIW reversed course and backed out of the WAC just days before July 1st when they were supposed to enter. The WAC looked at this and decided not to extend a new affiliate contract for UIW after the old one was voided.

So the WAC didn't actually kick UIW Men's Soccer out. They just decided not to extend the school a new contract given the change of circumstances.
08-07-2022 01:24 AM
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DoubleRSU Offline
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Post: #53
RE: UIW mens soccer booted from WAC
(08-07-2022 01:24 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Here is what really happened. When UIW said they were joining the WAC, their affiliate membership was not renewed because they accepted becoming a full member and didn't need affiliate membership going forward. But then UIW reversed course and backed out of the WAC just days before July 1st when they were supposed to enter. The WAC looked at this and decided not to extend a new affiliate contract for UIW after the old one was voided.

So the WAC didn't actually kick UIW Men's Soccer out. They just decided not to extend the school a new contract given the change of circumstances.

Word it however you want. There’s a few in this thread who believe UIW left WAC soccer “voluntarily”.
08-07-2022 01:59 PM
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BruceMcF Online
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Post: #54
RE: UIW mens soccer booted from WAC
(08-07-2022 01:59 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  
(08-07-2022 01:24 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Here is what really happened. When UIW said they were joining the WAC, their affiliate membership was not renewed because they accepted becoming a full member and didn't need affiliate membership going forward. But then UIW reversed course and backed out of the WAC just days before July 1st when they were supposed to enter. The WAC looked at this and decided not to extend a new affiliate contract for UIW after the old one was voided.

So the WAC didn't actually kick UIW Men's Soccer out. They just decided not to extend the school a new contract given the change of circumstances.

Word it however you want. There’s a few in this thread who believe UIW left WAC soccer “voluntarily”.

"As a consequence of their own decisions" would be more precise.
08-07-2022 03:03 PM
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Stugray2 Offline
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Post: #55
RE: UIW mens soccer booted from WAC
(08-07-2022 03:03 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(08-07-2022 01:59 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  
(08-07-2022 01:24 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Here is what really happened. When UIW said they were joining the WAC, their affiliate membership was not renewed because they accepted becoming a full member and didn't need affiliate membership going forward. But then UIW reversed course and backed out of the WAC just days before July 1st when they were supposed to enter. The WAC looked at this and decided not to extend a new affiliate contract for UIW after the old one was voided.

So the WAC didn't actually kick UIW Men's Soccer out. They just decided not to extend the school a new contract given the change of circumstances.

Word it however you want. There’s a few in this thread who believe UIW left WAC soccer “voluntarily”.

"As a consequence of their own decisions" would be more precise.

Exactly.

The WAC is adept at using contract expiration to their advantage. It requires no press release, no action, and avoids legal problems. It;s a simple case of no renewal offer. Ask Chicago State how that works.
08-08-2022 12:22 AM
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BruceMcF Online
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Post: #56
RE: UIW mens soccer booted from WAC
(08-08-2022 12:22 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  ...
The WAC is adept at using contract expiration to their advantage. It requires no press release, no action, and avoids legal problems. It's a simple case of no renewal offer. Ask Chicago State how that works.

For affiliate sports members, there's not even a basis for suggesting that they are out of line for PUTTING an "expiration date" in the affiliation agreement, because most (if not all!) conferences give fixed term affiliation agreements.
08-08-2022 05:31 PM
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jimrtex Online
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Post: #57
RE: UIW mens soccer booted from WAC
UIW has announced their 2022 soccer schedule.

https://uiwcardinals.com/sports/mens-soccer/schedule

It is a credible schedule. If they ran the table I can see them getting an at-large berth (they won't run the table). It appears that they had to travel to get some games in the latter part of the season.

I don't think there is any evidence that they were booted from the WAC. It is more likely that it was a mutual understanding.

Richland College (August 14) is a campus of Dallas College, the community college in Dallas County. Richland is the four-time defending NJCAA DIII (non-scholarship) champion. In the last four championship they have outscored opponents 53-7 (12-0).

Trinity is 13th ranked in NCAA DIII (and is in San Antonio).

The matches against Campbell and Furman are part of an invitational at HBU which UIW participated in last year. Campbell is tied for 25th in the pre-season rankings.

The matches against St.Thomas(MN) and Evansville are part of an invitational at Dayton which UIW participated in last year.

The matches at Gonzaga, College of Charleston, Georgia State, Santa Clara, and Bradley are clearly last minute additions where UIW had to travel to get a match. Santa Clara is ranked #22 and Georgia State also received votes.

It appears that the matches at San Jose State, UTRGV, and HBU are conversions of WAC conference matches to OOC matches, as is the home match against Utah Tech.

UIW has four home matches, 11 away, and 4 neutral site games (in Houston and Dayton). 7 of the 15 matches are bus-able (San Antonio to Tulsa (ORU) is 531 miles so might be a stretch).

If I were UIW, I'd try to get MPSF to restart soccer, with HBU, UIW, the four MtW schools and maybe the four remaining Pac-10 schools.
08-10-2022 10:02 PM
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DoubleRSU Offline
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Post: #58
RE: UIW mens soccer booted from WAC
No website release of the schedule, the Twitter account hasn’t been updated, but yeah, “mutual understanding”. Trying to sweep it under the rug.
08-11-2022 08:58 AM
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jimrtex Online
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Post: #59
RE: UIW mens soccer booted from WAC
(08-11-2022 08:58 AM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  No website release of the schedule, the Twitter account hasn’t been updated, but yeah, “mutual understanding”. Trying to sweep it under the rug.
I provided the link to the schedule:

https://uiwcardinals.com/sports/mens-soccer/schedule

Code:
Aug 14 (Sun)   1 p.m.      Home      Richland College                            San Antonio, TX (Gayle & Tom Benson Stadium)                      

Aug 18 (Thu)   7 p.m.      Away      Trinity University (Texas)                  San Antonio, TX                                                  

Aug 20 (Sat)   7 p.m.      Away      Southern Methodist University               Dallas, TX                                                        

Aug 25 (Thu)   5 p.m.      Neutral   Campbell University                         Houston, TX                                                      

Aug 27 (Sat)   5 p.m.      Neutral   Furman University                           Houston, TX                                                      

Sep 2 (Fri)    4 p.m.      Neutral   University of Evansville                    Dayton, OH                                                        

Sep 4 (Sun)    12 p.m.     Neutral   St. Thomas (Minn.)                          Dayton, OH                                                        

Sep 8 (Thu)    1 p.m.      Away      Gonzaga University                          Spokane, WA                                                      

Sep 12 (Mon)   7 p.m.      Away      Oral Roberts University                     Tulsa, OK                                                        

Sep 21 (Wed)   12 p.m.     Home      California State University at Fullerton    San Antonio, TX (Gayle & Tom Benson Stadium)                      

Sep 25 (Sun)   7 p.m.      Away      Houston Baptist University                  Houston, TX                                                      

Oct 4 (Tue)    7 p.m.      Away      College of Charleston                       Charleston, SC                                                    

Oct 8 (Sat)    9 p.m.      Away      San Jose State University                   San Jose, CA                                                      

Oct 11 (Tue)   7 p.m.      Away      Georgia State University                    Atlanta, Ga.                                                      

Oct 15 (Sat)   7 p.m.      Away      Santa Clara University                      Santa Clara, CA                                                  

Oct 22 (Sat)   7:30 p.m.   Home      Utah Tech                                   San Antonio, TX (Gayle & Tom Benson Stadium)              

Oct 26 (Wed)   6:30 p.m.   Away      The University of Texas Rio Grande Valley   Edinburg, TX                                                      

Oct 30 (Sun)   7 p.m.      Home      Houston Baptist University                  San Antonio, TX (Gayle & Tom Benson Stadium)                      

Nov 2 (Wed)    7 p.m.      Away      Bradley University                          Peoria, IL

It appears that UIW was the odd-team in the original 11-team schedule where the travel/host pairs are:

Seattle-San Jose State
CBU-UVU
UNLV-UTU
GCU-AFA
HBU-UTRGV

So it is possible that UIW told the WAC that if they decided to stay in the Southland for all sports that, that they would be leaving the WAC for men's soccer.

San Jose State, Utah Tech, UTRGV, and HBU kept their OOC games (possibly moved to a different date). The WAC generally plays Thursday-Saturday. Other conferences which are more compact play Wednesday-Saturday so there is more rest. There is a proposal now to switch to a fall-spring schedule so that there are mostly once per week matches.
08-11-2022 10:18 AM
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Post: #60
RE: UIW mens soccer booted from WAC
Is Richland College's mascot a duck holding a lightning bolt? I think that's the real story here
08-11-2022 10:22 AM
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