maybeimhere
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RE: If the PAC loses 4 or More Teams to the Big12......
(07-05-2022 07:32 PM)Cubanbull1 Wrote: (07-05-2022 07:24 PM)TripleA Wrote: (07-05-2022 07:11 PM)rtaylor Wrote: (07-05-2022 06:43 PM)mtmedlin Wrote: Mitt Winter
Winter Sports Law
“There's been a lot of talk about the Big 12's buyout clause and its grant of rights, and how they could affect OU and UT moving to the SEC.
I've represented multiple conferences in the middle of realignment and there's a big issue that no one has mentioned: sovereign immunity.
Sovereign immunity protects states, state agencies, and state officials from lawsuits seeking damages. It makes it difficult in many states to sue a state and collect a monetary judgment. Texas' sovereign immunity law makes it especially difficult to do so.
Texas' sovereign immunity law provides two layers of protection for state entities such as UT: immunity from suit and immunity from liability. The first provides complete bar from being sued. The second protects from judgments.
As with many states, a state entity in Texas waives immunity from liability when it enters into a contract. But, unless the entity expressly consents to being sued, the state entity still retains immunity from suit. And only the state legislature can waive immunity.
This means that if UT leaves the Big 12, the Big 12 can't sue UT in a Texas court to enforce the buyout provision or the grant of rights. This is the same problem that Mike Leach ran into when he tried to sue Texas Tech.“
This is what he posted about a year ago when things got crazy… still relevant now.
If you disagree, please feel free to contact th attorney who wrote this. It wasn’t me.
Neat. One lawyer with an opinion. Is his opinion iron clad?
More than one. I saw a group write one.
Not to mention, as Medlin said, look at precedent. It's everywhere.
Yet so far neither Texas nor Oklahoma have broken theirs.
Good ol Sovereign Immunity. Go ask the Sun Belt and C-USA boards how that worked.
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07-05-2022 08:01 PM |
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Tiger1983
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RE: If the PAC loses 4 or More Teams to the Big12......
I am not a lawyer, but I managed scores of contracts over the years. It is very difficult to get out of a properly drawn contract unless the terms allow it. The only way I have experienced to end the contract is upon mutual agreement which means the exit party has to give something of value.
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07-05-2022 08:11 PM |
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TripleA
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RE: If the PAC loses 4 or More Teams to the Big12......
(07-05-2022 07:32 PM)Cubanbull1 Wrote: (07-05-2022 07:24 PM)TripleA Wrote: (07-05-2022 07:11 PM)rtaylor Wrote: (07-05-2022 06:43 PM)mtmedlin Wrote: Mitt Winter
Winter Sports Law
“There's been a lot of talk about the Big 12's buyout clause and its grant of rights, and how they could affect OU and UT moving to the SEC.
I've represented multiple conferences in the middle of realignment and there's a big issue that no one has mentioned: sovereign immunity.
Sovereign immunity protects states, state agencies, and state officials from lawsuits seeking damages. It makes it difficult in many states to sue a state and collect a monetary judgment. Texas' sovereign immunity law makes it especially difficult to do so.
Texas' sovereign immunity law provides two layers of protection for state entities such as UT: immunity from suit and immunity from liability. The first provides complete bar from being sued. The second protects from judgments.
As with many states, a state entity in Texas waives immunity from liability when it enters into a contract. But, unless the entity expressly consents to being sued, the state entity still retains immunity from suit. And only the state legislature can waive immunity.
This means that if UT leaves the Big 12, the Big 12 can't sue UT in a Texas court to enforce the buyout provision or the grant of rights. This is the same problem that Mike Leach ran into when he tried to sue Texas Tech.“
This is what he posted about a year ago when things got crazy… still relevant now.
If you disagree, please feel free to contact th attorney who wrote this. It wasn’t me.
Neat. One lawyer with an opinion. Is his opinion iron clad?
More than one. I saw a group write one.
Not to mention, as Medlin said, look at precedent. It's everywhere.
Yet so far neither Texas nor Oklahoma have broken theirs.
True. But everybody else has. That's what precedent is, lol. It doesn't have to be unanimous. They decided it wasn't worth the expense.
But I think the gap is going to be so wide soon that it may be worth it again. Even for one that long.
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07-05-2022 08:37 PM |
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TripleA
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RE: If the PAC loses 4 or More Teams to the Big12......
(07-05-2022 08:11 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote: I am not a lawyer, but I managed scores of contracts over the years. It is very difficult to get out of a properly drawn contract unless the terms allow it. The only way I have experienced to end the contract is upon mutual agreement which means the exit party has to give something of value.
Which is what has happened every time, until OU and TX. And can certainly happen again. In fact, I think it will.
(This post was last modified: 07-05-2022 08:41 PM by TripleA.)
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07-05-2022 08:38 PM |
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Bear Catlett
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RE: If the PAC loses 4 or More Teams to the Big12......
I am pushing for a B12- Pac12 merger so that they can use my name for the new conference...
THE 12 PAC !!!!
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07-05-2022 08:52 PM |
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firmbizzle
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RE: If the PAC loses 4 or More Teams to the Big12......
(07-05-2022 01:01 PM)ECUGrad07 Wrote: I think if the PAC loses anybody else, they'll backfill from the MWC.
SDSU, Air Force, Boise State, Colorado State.. easy, plug and play.
And SMU.
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07-05-2022 09:04 PM |
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Memphis Yankee
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RE: If the PAC loses 4 or More Teams to the Big12......
(07-05-2022 08:11 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote: I am not a lawyer, but I managed scores of contracts over the years. It is very difficult to get out of a properly drawn contract unless the terms allow it. The only way I have experienced to end the contract is upon mutual agreement which means the exit party has to give something of value.
Contracts that don't usually hold up are the ones that are one-sided and considered unfair or unrealistic in the court of law.
Looks like to me the ACC teams are being treated like indentured servants.
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07-05-2022 09:18 PM |
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Memphis Yankee
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RE: If the PAC loses 4 or More Teams to the Big12......
(07-05-2022 08:52 PM)Bear Catlett Wrote: I am pushing for a B12- Pac12 merger so that they can use my name for the new conference...
THE 12 PAC !!!!
How bout the 24 Pac? The Party Pac.
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07-05-2022 09:20 PM |
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Cubanbull1
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RE: If the PAC loses 4 or More Teams to the Big12......
(07-05-2022 08:37 PM)TripleA Wrote: (07-05-2022 07:32 PM)Cubanbull1 Wrote: (07-05-2022 07:24 PM)TripleA Wrote: (07-05-2022 07:11 PM)rtaylor Wrote: (07-05-2022 06:43 PM)mtmedlin Wrote: Mitt Winter
Winter Sports Law
“There's been a lot of talk about the Big 12's buyout clause and its grant of rights, and how they could affect OU and UT moving to the SEC.
I've represented multiple conferences in the middle of realignment and there's a big issue that no one has mentioned: sovereign immunity.
Sovereign immunity protects states, state agencies, and state officials from lawsuits seeking damages. It makes it difficult in many states to sue a state and collect a monetary judgment. Texas' sovereign immunity law makes it especially difficult to do so.
Texas' sovereign immunity law provides two layers of protection for state entities such as UT: immunity from suit and immunity from liability. The first provides complete bar from being sued. The second protects from judgments.
As with many states, a state entity in Texas waives immunity from liability when it enters into a contract. But, unless the entity expressly consents to being sued, the state entity still retains immunity from suit. And only the state legislature can waive immunity.
This means that if UT leaves the Big 12, the Big 12 can't sue UT in a Texas court to enforce the buyout provision or the grant of rights. This is the same problem that Mike Leach ran into when he tried to sue Texas Tech.“
This is what he posted about a year ago when things got crazy… still relevant now.
If you disagree, please feel free to contact th attorney who wrote this. It wasn’t me.
Neat. One lawyer with an opinion. Is his opinion iron clad?
More than one. I saw a group write one.
Not to mention, as Medlin said, look at precedent. It's everywhere.
Yet so far neither Texas nor Oklahoma have broken theirs.
True. But everybody else has. That's what precedent is, lol. It doesn't have to be unanimous. They decided it wasn't worth the expense.
But I think the gap is going to be so wide soon that it may be worth it again. Even for one that long.
Who has broken a GOR deal?
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07-05-2022 09:21 PM |
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TripleA
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RE: If the PAC loses 4 or More Teams to the Big12......
(07-05-2022 09:21 PM)Cubanbull1 Wrote: (07-05-2022 08:37 PM)TripleA Wrote: (07-05-2022 07:32 PM)Cubanbull1 Wrote: (07-05-2022 07:24 PM)TripleA Wrote: (07-05-2022 07:11 PM)rtaylor Wrote: Neat. One lawyer with an opinion. Is his opinion iron clad?
More than one. I saw a group write one.
Not to mention, as Medlin said, look at precedent. It's everywhere.
Yet so far neither Texas nor Oklahoma have broken theirs.
True. But everybody else has. That's what precedent is, lol. It doesn't have to be unanimous. They decided it wasn't worth the expense.
But I think the gap is going to be so wide soon that it may be worth it again. Even for one that long.
Who has broken a GOR deal?
Conference contracts. Not necessarily GoR. But they all can be broken for the right amount of money. Here's another example now.
Quote:
With the Big 12 and Pac-12 in flux, ACC schools are becoming increasingly aware of a media rights gap that could approach $50 million per year compared to the SEC and Big Ten.
It has been widely speculated that some combination of Clemson, Florida State and Miami could be a fit if the SEC chooses to expand again.
At a gap of $50M a year, teams can afford to break contracts, including GoRs. Nobody said they would necessarily do it, but it can be done. Just takes enough money. And if the SEC or B1G wants them, those schools will go. sooner or later.
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07-05-2022 10:44 PM |
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firmbizzle
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RE: If the PAC loses 4 or More Teams to the Big12......
(07-05-2022 03:32 PM)maybeimhere Wrote: (07-05-2022 03:27 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote: (07-05-2022 01:01 PM)ECUGrad07 Wrote: I think if the PAC loses anybody else, they'll backfill from the MWC.
SDSU, Air Force, Boise State, Colorado State.. easy, plug and play.
More likely that the MW picks up Oregon State and Washington State.
Nah, the PAC shell is way more valuable than the MWC shell. I mean, same thing as the American selling the name Big East to the C7 because it was more valuable than creating a new name.
Not only that but there will be exits fees and NCAA credits.
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07-06-2022 04:47 AM |
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firmbizzle
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RE: If the PAC loses 4 or More Teams to the Big12......
Beware of the Pac12 right now. They are talking to ESPN and ESPN wants OUT in the SEC in 2023. The Pac12 needs to convince 6/LO8 (Kansas, Iowa State, Oklahoma State, TCU, Baylor, Texas Tech) plus OUT to dissolve (takes 75% to dissolve, that is 8/10 members) the B12 this year in exchange for a lucrative long term (10 year deal) that sounds great today but won't be worth as much in 10 years. ESPN was planning on spending money on the B12 and Pac12 anyway, so that is a sunk cost, now they only have to spend money on one conference.
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07-06-2022 04:54 AM |
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otown
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RE: If the PAC loses 4 or More Teams to the Big12......
If ESPN really wants to save money in the long term and start marinating the meat early vs later, orchestrate a cancelation of the ACC GOR. Work with Fox to consolidate a P3 conference with the left behinds from PAC, Big 12, and ACC. Have 20 to 24 team P3 conferences over night. In 10 years, these will be established and ready to eat. You won't have to start from scratch when the current ACC expires in 10 plus years.
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07-06-2022 06:45 AM |
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KNIGHTTIME
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RE: If the PAC loses 4 or More Teams to the Big12......
(07-06-2022 06:45 AM)otown Wrote: If ESPN really wants to save money in the long term and start marinating the meat early vs later, orchestrate a cancelation of the ACC GOR. Work with Fox to consolidate a P3 conference with the left behinds from PAC, Big 12, and ACC. Have 20 to 24 team P3 conferences over night. In 10 years, these will be established and ready to eat. You won't have to start from scratch when the current ACC expires in 10 plus years.
Cancelation of the GOR? It is owned by the conference
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07-06-2022 07:42 AM |
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otown
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RE: If the PAC loses 4 or More Teams to the Big12......
(07-06-2022 07:42 AM)KNIGHTTIME Wrote: (07-06-2022 06:45 AM)otown Wrote: If ESPN really wants to save money in the long term and start marinating the meat early vs later, orchestrate a cancelation of the ACC GOR. Work with Fox to consolidate a P3 conference with the left behinds from PAC, Big 12, and ACC. Have 20 to 24 team P3 conferences over night. In 10 years, these will be established and ready to eat. You won't have to start from scratch when the current ACC expires in 10 plus years.
Cancelation of the GOR? It is owned by the conference
Sure. ESPN can orchestrate a plan where everyone gets paid more. ACC is severely underpaid. ESPN would do it because it is more lucrative for them to move the top of the conference into the B1G and SEC. Have a landing spot in the new P3 3rd conference for the left behinds that will still pay more than the piss poor current ACC contract.
Economically it makes sense.....just gotta get around egos.
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07-06-2022 07:51 AM |
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Pirate Rep
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RE: If the PAC loses 4 or More Teams to the Big12......
(07-06-2022 04:54 AM)firmbizzle Wrote: Beware of the Pac12 right now. They are talking to ESPN and ESPN wants OUT in the SEC in 2023. The Pac12 needs to convince 6/LO8 (Kansas, Iowa State, Oklahoma State, TCU, Baylor, Texas Tech) plus OUT to dissolve (takes 75% to dissolve, that is 8/10 members) the B12 this year in exchange for a lucrative long term (10 year deal) that sounds great today but won't be worth as much in 10 years. ESPN was planning on spending money on the B12 and Pac12 anyway, so that is a sunk cost, now they only have to spend money on one conference.
You are exactly right and could be done. It serves the self interest of ESPN and a out of jail free card to OU & UT.
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07-06-2022 07:57 AM |
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CoastalJuan
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RE: If the PAC loses 4 or More Teams to the Big12......
(07-06-2022 06:45 AM)otown Wrote: If ESPN really wants to save money in the long term and start marinating the meat early vs later, orchestrate a cancelation of the ACC GOR. Work with Fox to consolidate a P3 conference with the left behinds from PAC, Big 12, and ACC. Have 20 to 24 team P3 conferences over night. In 10 years, these will be established and ready to eat. You won't have to start from scratch when the current ACC expires in 10 plus years.
The only problem there is that it's really only the top tier that are fully on board with a coast to coast conference. A second tier conference would likely be eaten alive by the travel. Teams like Purdue and Illinois are putting up with it because they'll be making 100m a year by association. No conference making 20-30m is going to want to do all sports between NC and CA.
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07-06-2022 08:18 AM |
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Tiger1983
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RE: If the PAC loses 4 or More Teams to the Big12......
Given the interest of Apple, Amazon, Netflix in sports programming; it would behoove ESPN to lock up conference media deals for as long as feasible.
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07-06-2022 08:38 AM |
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Sellular1
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RE: If the PAC loses 4 or More Teams to the Big12......
(07-05-2022 08:52 PM)Bear Catlett Wrote: I am pushing for a B12- Pac12 merger so that they can use my name for the new conference...
THE 12 PAC !!!!
Would be a cool new conference logo…. The Big12 Pac
Every school logo on a can of beer.
Shake before using, best served cold
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07-06-2022 08:46 AM |
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freshtop
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RE: If the PAC loses 4 or More Teams to the Big12......
(07-05-2022 09:04 PM)firmbizzle Wrote: (07-05-2022 01:01 PM)ECUGrad07 Wrote: I think if the PAC loses anybody else, they'll backfill from the MWC.
SDSU, Air Force, Boise State, Colorado State.. easy, plug and play.
And SMU.
SMU should be their first call. Best combination of budget, brand, market, academics, and athletic performance available. I also wouldn't be surprised if Cal/Stanford go for other academic adds (Rice, Tulane, Tulsa) over Boise. SDSU, Air Force, and Colorado State are all squarely in the "good enough" academic category.
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07-06-2022 08:47 AM |
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