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2022 football roster updated
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Middle Ages Offline
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Post: #41
RE: 2022 football roster updated
(07-13-2022 11:19 PM)Ourland Wrote:  Rice's defense is chronically undermanned. The starters are typically decent players with average talent, but the 2nd and 3rd team have very little to contribute.

That being the case, Rice needs an offense that can methodically grind its way down the field, keeping the defense resting on the bench.

Then we need to recruit better.
07-14-2022 12:00 PM
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Post: #42
RE: 2022 football roster updated
(07-14-2022 10:03 AM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  
(07-13-2022 11:19 PM)Ourland Wrote:  Rice's defense is chronically undermanned. The starters are typically decent players with average talent, but the 2nd and 3rd team have very little to contribute.

That being the case, Rice needs an offense that can methodically grind its way down the field, keeping the defense resting on the bench.

The defense doesn't need much rest when the opposition scores on 4 plays, PASSING the ball down field.

This brings up a good point about our 'dream teams'.

A poor defense isn't necessarily on the field a lot, if you have a good offense that can run the clock. They give up quick scores and the offense gets the ball back and they rest.

Similarly, a great defense isn't necessarily on the field a lot.. if you have a good offense that can run the clock. They get a 3 and out and the offense gets the ball back and they rest.

The problem comes when your offense can't run the clock or gives up turnovers or goes 3 and out a lot.... and if you can run the clock, the defense doesn't get worn out.

Running the clock depends on making first downs of course, but that also means that you have to be able to get 12 when you need 11, 4 when you need 3, and a foot when you need 6 inches. That's what the bone did and it was more effective than PTR because it relied on deception, vision, leverage and angles and not 'power'.

Even if we have a great OL, they will only do well against weaker DLs.... because we won't be 'that much more powerful' than the average g5 team, and will likely be weaker, or no better than any p5 team.

It's a recipe for mediocrity, even in a weak conference.
07-14-2022 01:09 PM
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Ourland Offline
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Post: #43
RE: 2022 football roster updated
(07-14-2022 10:03 AM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  
(07-13-2022 11:19 PM)Ourland Wrote:  Rice's defense is chronically undermanned. The starters are typically decent players with average talent, but the 2nd and 3rd team have very little to contribute.

That being the case, Rice needs an offense that can methodically grind its way down the field, keeping the defense resting on the bench.

The defense doesn't need much rest when the opposition scores on 4 plays, PASSING the ball down field.

That's easy to do against a bad defense.
07-14-2022 01:38 PM
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Ourland Offline
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RE: 2022 football roster updated
(07-14-2022 11:05 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(07-13-2022 11:19 PM)Ourland Wrote:  Rice's defense is chronically undermanned. The starters are typically decent players with average talent, but the 2nd and 3rd team have very little to contribute.

That being the case, Rice needs an offense that can methodically grind its way down the field, keeping the defense resting on the bench.

The defense got plenty of rest in the 70-63 debacle. Most of the SJS scores were on one play.

That's an extreme example, and not a very good one to support your argument. That was one of Hatfield's worst teams. The defense was awful. Their backup QB did that to us. That night was the beginning of the end for the head coach.
07-14-2022 01:46 PM
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Ourland Offline
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RE: 2022 football roster updated
(07-14-2022 12:00 PM)Middle Ages Wrote:  
(07-13-2022 11:19 PM)Ourland Wrote:  Rice's defense is chronically undermanned. The starters are typically decent players with average talent, but the 2nd and 3rd team have very little to contribute.

That being the case, Rice needs an offense that can methodically grind its way down the field, keeping the defense resting on the bench.

Then we need to recruit better.

Yes we do, but how do you do that at a school that's outside of the P5 and has the most rigorous academic requirements for athletes in the country? Mike Bloomgren was supposed to be a great recruiter, but he has shown me very little thus far.

Rice needs Texas coaches with recruiting connections, but even then, recruiting will never be easy for Rice. Kids don't want educations anymore. They want to play at the highest level, and we're no longer in the SWC. Recruiting will always be a chronic problem. What 'system' best addresses that reality...the Triple Option.
07-14-2022 01:55 PM
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Ourland Offline
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RE: 2022 football roster updated
(07-14-2022 01:09 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  
(07-14-2022 10:03 AM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  
(07-13-2022 11:19 PM)Ourland Wrote:  Rice's defense is chronically undermanned. The starters are typically decent players with average talent, but the 2nd and 3rd team have very little to contribute.

That being the case, Rice needs an offense that can methodically grind its way down the field, keeping the defense resting on the bench.

The defense doesn't need much rest when the opposition scores on 4 plays, PASSING the ball down field.

This brings up a good point about our 'dream teams'.

A poor defense isn't necessarily on the field a lot, if you have a good offense that can run the clock. They give up quick scores and the offense gets the ball back and they rest.

Similarly, a great defense isn't necessarily on the field a lot.. if you have a good offense that can run the clock. They get a 3 and out and the offense gets the ball back and they rest.

The problem comes when your offense can't run the clock or gives up turnovers or goes 3 and out a lot.... and if you can run the clock, the defense doesn't get worn out.

Running the clock depends on making first downs of course, but that also means that you have to be able to get 12 when you need 11, 4 when you need 3, and a foot when you need 6 inches. That's what the bone did and it was more effective than PTR because it relied on deception, vision, leverage and angles and not 'power'.

Even if we have a great OL, they will only do well against weaker DLs.... because we won't be 'that much more powerful' than the average g5 team, and will likely be weaker, or no better than any p5 team.

It's a recipe for mediocrity, even in a weak conference.

Right again.
07-14-2022 01:57 PM
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Middle Ages Offline
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Post: #47
RE: 2022 football roster updated
(07-14-2022 01:55 PM)Ourland Wrote:  
(07-14-2022 12:00 PM)Middle Ages Wrote:  
(07-13-2022 11:19 PM)Ourland Wrote:  Rice's defense is chronically undermanned. The starters are typically decent players with average talent, but the 2nd and 3rd team have very little to contribute.

That being the case, Rice needs an offense that can methodically grind its way down the field, keeping the defense resting on the bench.

Then we need to recruit better.

Yes we do, but how do you do that at a school that's outside of the P5 and has the most rigorous academic requirements for athletes in the country? Mike Bloomgren was supposed to be a great recruiter, but he has shown me very little thus far.

Rice needs Texas coaches with recruiting connections, but even then, recruiting will never be easy for Rice. Kids don't want educations anymore. They want to play at the highest level, and we're no longer in the SWC. Recruiting will always be a chronic problem. What 'system' best addresses that reality...the Triple Option.

Wong attitiude. Focus on the strengths, not the challenges. Rice has done a horrific job of hiring STAFFS of recruiters- since Goldmsith. Hat was okay and certainly got some gems but he was so specific on what he was looking for it's hard to compare. Graham was good but only here a year. Bailiff was pretty good in spurts but he couldn't keep his good recruiters because of pay (that was solvable). Bloom has been a disaster, though he has had some good individual recruiters.

Say what you will about Goldsmith's philosophy in the three phases of game play, his top priority by a long shot was recruitiing/ upgrading talent and the staff he put in place were all good recruitiers. They had many of the same recruiting challenges then but found ways to attract talent anyway. That's what we need now- way more than what scheme we run.

Bloomgren was supposed to be a great recruiter? Really? I don't remember that. All I remember was that he was (hushed tones) Stanford....
(This post was last modified: 07-14-2022 02:25 PM by Middle Ages.)
07-14-2022 02:23 PM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #48
RE: 2022 football roster updated
(07-14-2022 01:46 PM)Ourland Wrote:  
(07-14-2022 11:05 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(07-13-2022 11:19 PM)Ourland Wrote:  Rice's defense is chronically undermanned. The starters are typically decent players with average talent, but the 2nd and 3rd team have very little to contribute.

That being the case, Rice needs an offense that can methodically grind its way down the field, keeping the defense resting on the bench.

The defense got plenty of rest in the 70-63 debacle. Most of the SJS scores were on one play.

That's an extreme example, and not a very good one to support your argument. That was one of Hatfield's worst teams. The defense was awful. Their backup QB did that to us. That night was the beginning of the end for the head coach.

It was just a few games after that 10-7 defensive jewel that Numbers and I were discussing. They avoided the shut out with 9 seconds left.

Set. 5 10-7 U. of Houstom
Oct 2 63-70 SJS

2004 season

The defense was pretty good through the first 3.25 games. Won the next game (SMU)44-10. No idea why it imploded.
(This post was last modified: 07-14-2022 03:35 PM by OptimisticOwl.)
07-14-2022 03:22 PM
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Ourland Offline
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Post: #49
RE: 2022 football roster updated
(07-14-2022 03:22 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(07-14-2022 01:46 PM)Ourland Wrote:  
(07-14-2022 11:05 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(07-13-2022 11:19 PM)Ourland Wrote:  Rice's defense is chronically undermanned. The starters are typically decent players with average talent, but the 2nd and 3rd team have very little to contribute.

That being the case, Rice needs an offense that can methodically grind its way down the field, keeping the defense resting on the bench.

The defense got plenty of rest in the 70-63 debacle. Most of the SJS scores were on one play.

That's an extreme example, and not a very good one to support your argument. That was one of Hatfield's worst teams. The defense was awful. Their backup QB did that to us. That night was the beginning of the end for the head coach.

It was just a few games after that 10-7 defensive jewel that Numbers and I were discussing. They avoided the shut out with 9 seconds left.

Set. 5 10-7 U. of Houstom
Oct 2 63-70 SJS

2004 season

That doesn't necessarily make us a good defense. Kevin Kolb was under constant pressure in that game. He ran for his life the entire time. Was that due to our DL playing great, or their OL playing horribly? A little of both?
07-14-2022 03:33 PM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #50
RE: 2022 football roster updated
(07-14-2022 03:33 PM)Ourland Wrote:  
(07-14-2022 03:22 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(07-14-2022 01:46 PM)Ourland Wrote:  
(07-14-2022 11:05 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(07-13-2022 11:19 PM)Ourland Wrote:  Rice's defense is chronically undermanned. The starters are typically decent players with average talent, but the 2nd and 3rd team have very little to contribute.

That being the case, Rice needs an offense that can methodically grind its way down the field, keeping the defense resting on the bench.

The defense got plenty of rest in the 70-63 debacle. Most of the SJS scores were on one play.

That's an extreme example, and not a very good one to support your argument. That was one of Hatfield's worst teams. The defense was awful. Their backup QB did that to us. That night was the beginning of the end for the head coach.

It was just a few games after that 10-7 defensive jewel that Numbers and I were discussing. They avoided the shut out with 9 seconds left.

Set. 5 10-7 U. of Houstom
Oct 2 63-70 SJS

2004 season

That doesn't necessarily make us a good defense. Kevin Kolb was under constant pressure in that game. He ran for his life the entire time. Was that due to our DL playing great, or their OL playing horribly? A little of both?

"Kolb was under constant pressure" is all you needed to say.
07-14-2022 03:37 PM
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Ourland Offline
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Post: #51
RE: 2022 football roster updated
(07-14-2022 02:23 PM)Middle Ages Wrote:  
(07-14-2022 01:55 PM)Ourland Wrote:  
(07-14-2022 12:00 PM)Middle Ages Wrote:  
(07-13-2022 11:19 PM)Ourland Wrote:  Rice's defense is chronically undermanned. The starters are typically decent players with average talent, but the 2nd and 3rd team have very little to contribute.

That being the case, Rice needs an offense that can methodically grind its way down the field, keeping the defense resting on the bench.

Then we need to recruit better.

Yes we do, but how do you do that at a school that's outside of the P5 and has the most rigorous academic requirements for athletes in the country? Mike Bloomgren was supposed to be a great recruiter, but he has shown me very little thus far.

Rice needs Texas coaches with recruiting connections, but even then, recruiting will never be easy for Rice. Kids don't want educations anymore. They want to play at the highest level, and we're no longer in the SWC. Recruiting will always be a chronic problem. What 'system' best addresses that reality...the Triple Option.

Wong attitiude. Focus on the strengths, not the challenges. Rice has done a horrific job of hiring STAFFS of recruiters- since Goldmsith. Hat was okay and certainly got some gems but he was so specific on what he was looking for it's hard to compare. Graham was good but only here a year. Bailiff was pretty good in spurts but he couldn't keep his good recruiters because of pay (that was solvable). Bloom has been a disaster, though he has had some good individual recruiters.

Say what you will about Goldsmith's philosophy in the three phases of game play, his top priority by a long shot was recruitiing/ upgrading talent and the staff he put in place were all good recruitiers. They had many of the same recruiting challenges then but found ways to attract talent anyway. That's what we need now- way more than what scheme we run.

Bloomgren was supposed to be a great recruiter? Really? I don't remember that. All I remember was that he was (hushed tones) Stanford....

You don't think that was all done in a much different era? There were no power conferences in the late 80's and early 90's. We were all equals. Now there are two tiers of competition within FBS, and we are in the lower tier. Not to mention how badly the current transfer rules and NIL are killing us. At some point, our desires will have to meet reality.

And yes, Bloomgren had a reputation as a good recruiter. It's one of the reasons that he was hired. Now that he's here, he has recruited no one of any consequence into the program. I think that's a reflection of his inability to recruit Texas, and the fact that Rice has been in a horrible conference.
07-14-2022 03:44 PM
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Middle Ages Offline
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Post: #52
RE: 2022 football roster updated
(07-14-2022 03:44 PM)Ourland Wrote:  
(07-14-2022 02:23 PM)Middle Ages Wrote:  
(07-14-2022 01:55 PM)Ourland Wrote:  
(07-14-2022 12:00 PM)Middle Ages Wrote:  
(07-13-2022 11:19 PM)Ourland Wrote:  Rice's defense is chronically undermanned. The starters are typically decent players with average talent, but the 2nd and 3rd team have very little to contribute.

That being the case, Rice needs an offense that can methodically grind its way down the field, keeping the defense resting on the bench.

Then we need to recruit better.

Yes we do, but how do you do that at a school that's outside of the P5 and has the most rigorous academic requirements for athletes in the country? Mike Bloomgren was supposed to be a great recruiter, but he has shown me very little thus far.

Rice needs Texas coaches with recruiting connections, but even then, recruiting will never be easy for Rice. Kids don't want educations anymore. They want to play at the highest level, and we're no longer in the SWC. Recruiting will always be a chronic problem. What 'system' best addresses that reality...the Triple Option.

Wong attitiude. Focus on the strengths, not the challenges. Rice has done a horrific job of hiring STAFFS of recruiters- since Goldmsith. Hat was okay and certainly got some gems but he was so specific on what he was looking for it's hard to compare. Graham was good but only here a year. Bailiff was pretty good in spurts but he couldn't keep his good recruiters because of pay (that was solvable). Bloom has been a disaster, though he has had some good individual recruiters.

Say what you will about Goldsmith's philosophy in the three phases of game play, his top priority by a long shot was recruitiing/ upgrading talent and the staff he put in place were all good recruitiers. They had many of the same recruiting challenges then but found ways to attract talent anyway. That's what we need now- way more than what scheme we run.

Bloomgren was supposed to be a great recruiter? Really? I don't remember that. All I remember was that he was (hushed tones) Stanford....

You don't think that was all done in a much different era? There were no power conferences in the late 80's and early 90's. We were all equals. Now there are two tiers of competition within FBS, and we are in the lower tier. Not to mention how badly the current transfer rules and NIL are killing us. At some point, our desires will have to meet reality.

And yes, Bloomgren had a reputation as a good recruiter. It's one of the reasons that he was hired. Now that he's here, he has recruited no one of any consequence into the program. I think that's a reflection of his inability to recruit Texas, and the fact that Rice has been in a horrible conference.

Definintely a different era and our ability to steal someone from Tech, Baylor, TCU, etc. is much diminished compared to then (almost puked typing that). But given our strengths, why can't we recruit among the top of the G5? From a recruiting/talent persepctive, we are a far cry from Cincy, UH, Boise, and even SMU (I did puke that time)
(This post was last modified: 07-14-2022 04:30 PM by Middle Ages.)
07-14-2022 04:29 PM
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Ourland Offline
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Post: #53
RE: 2022 football roster updated
Bloomgren's departure is critical. He's an a$$hole, and his players have no faith in his system. It's the reason so many abandon the program. We can't even keep our own players. The least we could do is bring in a coach with an effective scheme, who truly cares about his players. That would go a long way in stabilizing the program. There's no foundation to build a program on when so many transfer out.
07-14-2022 04:57 PM
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Post: #54
RE: 2022 football roster updated
(07-14-2022 04:29 PM)Middle Ages Wrote:  
(07-14-2022 03:44 PM)Ourland Wrote:  
(07-14-2022 02:23 PM)Middle Ages Wrote:  
(07-14-2022 01:55 PM)Ourland Wrote:  
(07-14-2022 12:00 PM)Middle Ages Wrote:  Then we need to recruit better.

Yes we do, but how do you do that at a school that's outside of the P5 and has the most rigorous academic requirements for athletes in the country? Mike Bloomgren was supposed to be a great recruiter, but he has shown me very little thus far.

Rice needs Texas coaches with recruiting connections, but even then, recruiting will never be easy for Rice. Kids don't want educations anymore. They want to play at the highest level, and we're no longer in the SWC. Recruiting will always be a chronic problem. What 'system' best addresses that reality...the Triple Option.

Wong attitiude. Focus on the strengths, not the challenges. Rice has done a horrific job of hiring STAFFS of recruiters- since Goldmsith. Hat was okay and certainly got some gems but he was so specific on what he was looking for it's hard to compare. Graham was good but only here a year. Bailiff was pretty good in spurts but he couldn't keep his good recruiters because of pay (that was solvable). Bloom has been a disaster, though he has had some good individual recruiters.

Say what you will about Goldsmith's philosophy in the three phases of game play, his top priority by a long shot was recruitiing/ upgrading talent and the staff he put in place were all good recruitiers. They had many of the same recruiting challenges then but found ways to attract talent anyway. That's what we need now- way more than what scheme we run.

Bloomgren was supposed to be a great recruiter? Really? I don't remember that. All I remember was that he was (hushed tones) Stanford....

You don't think that was all done in a much different era? There were no power conferences in the late 80's and early 90's. We were all equals. Now there are two tiers of competition within FBS, and we are in the lower tier. Not to mention how badly the current transfer rules and NIL are killing us. At some point, our desires will have to meet reality.

And yes, Bloomgren had a reputation as a good recruiter. It's one of the reasons that he was hired. Now that he's here, he has recruited no one of any consequence into the program. I think that's a reflection of his inability to recruit Texas, and the fact that Rice has been in a horrible conference.

Definintely a different era and our ability to steal someone from Tech, Baylor, TCU, etc. is much diminished compared to then (almost puked typing that). But given our strengths, why can't we recruit among the top of the G5? From a recruiting/talent persepctive, we are a far cry from Cincy, UH, Boise, and even SMU (I did puke that time)

I can help you mitigate that wave of nausea that you are experiencing.
07-14-2022 05:00 PM
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Post: #55
RE: 2022 football roster updated
You can talk all you want about conference inequality but remember this. SMU was on the death penalty in 1987 and 1988. During those two years Rice won exactly the same number of SWC games as SMU. Rice wasn't equal to the rest when Fred arrived.
(This post was last modified: 07-14-2022 07:34 PM by Owl 69/70/75.)
07-14-2022 07:34 PM
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