The unofficial online home for fans of the University of Cincinnati Bearcats. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

(06-25-2022 01:45 PM)vabearcat Wrote:  The alumni of the University of Virginia and Virginia Tech are not too fond of one another, but the institutional administration of each respective school actually works well together. The two universities are the flagships of the commonwealth of Virginia, and because they have relatively different academic missions, they partner very well together in drawing resources and support from all ends of the political spectrum within the Commonwealth.

That's one thing UC and OSU lack: different academic missions.

Both aim to be THE comprehensive research university in their region. To draw international talent to the region and use that talent to create fundamental economic breakthroughs and provide a near-elite undergraduate education for anyone in that region who can hack it.

The only "difference" is that OSU sees "their region" as all of Ohio, and UC sees "their region" as SW Ohio, 8 counties in NKY, and 28 counties in SE Indiana (yes, UC offers in-state tuition in those counties).

The fact that our regions overlap has some odd effects. In the context of drawing talent to the region and creating economic breakthroughs, that makes us close co-operators. Yet in the field of educating the masses in Ohio, that makes us competitors.

Maybe UC could patent "of," as is used in University OF Cincinnati.

Didn't the University of Louisville go after a high school due to the version of the cardinal logo.

(06-26-2022 06:29 AM)Edgebrookjeff Wrote:  Didn't the University of Louisville go after a high school due to the version of the cardinal logo.

Probably. UC has done the same regarding the C-Paw since it's a unique, proprietary mark that's been "borrowed" (stolen) and used by some schools or other teams.

It's also been reproduced on clothing and novelty items outside the legal licensing which denies the University rightful royalty income. UC and Collegiate Licensing work together to protect the brand.

(06-26-2022 06:29 AM)Edgebrookjeff Wrote:  Didn't the University of Louisville go after a high school due to the version of the cardinal logo.

That logo is particularly difficult to avoid copyright infringement. There's too many other teams that use a similar mascot.

Which logo is which? The choices are: Arizona Cardinals, St Louis Cardinals, Louisville Cardinals, Ball State Cardinals, Illinois State Redbirds

Easy:

Arizona Cardinals
Louisville Cardinals
Illinois State Redbirds
St. Louis Cardinals
Ball State

(06-26-2022 06:29 AM)Edgebrookjeff Wrote:  Didn't the University of Louisville go after a high school due to the version of the cardinal logo.

No kidding here... When I was a kid in Aurora, CO, our rival public high school was sued by the International Olympic Committee and made to change their mascots and logos. They were the "Olympians" and their logo had five interlocking (black) rings and a stylized torch. They ended up the "Olys" and had to sandblast the rings and torch off their building and the sign in front of the school. The IOC was absolutely merciless in asserting their trademark...even against a public high school...to the point where it got a little bit nasty. The school district conceded the copyright infringement but asked for a singular permission, but the IOC absolutely refused to consider the usage.

A little later in life, my alma mater (Metropolitan State [now University] College of Denver) had to drop using a "Roadrunner" that was a little too close to the Warner Brothers (Looney Tunes) version. That one never went to court, a simple request from WB (and maybe a threat) was enough to prompt the administration to change the art.

I find it...unhelpful...for Universities and Institutions (like the IOC) to be too zealous against lower-division (i.e. High School, Little league, etc...) sports teams who perhaps inadvertently...or at least without malice...trespass on a Copyright. It is better to see if an amicable solution can be reached, and likely goes a long way to creating fans of your school. A few years back, I drove into Bentleyville, PA, searching for a gas station, and was...happily amused...to find the whole town bedecked with a "B-Paw" and the logos for the "Bentleyville Bearcats" that looked more than a little like our own logos. I took it as flattering that they looked at the University of Cincinnati Bearcats as worth imitating.

And no...I don't think they were infringing on the copyright.

I thought that I had heard or read it the UL went after Colerain saying the Colerain Cardinal was the same version as that of UofL.

(06-27-2022 04:15 PM)Edgebrookjeff Wrote:  I thought that I had heard or read it the UL went after Colerain saying the Colerain Cardinal was the same version as that of UofL.

Haha they the only logo I had to confirm was Louisville and that it wasn’t going to be Colerain.

I remember hearing about that when I lived there, Jerry. Yeah, the IOC sucks. There's a beloved restaurant here in Portland now called Olympia Provisions. It was Olympic Provisions until five or six years ago, but the IOC threatened to sue. The restaurant changed their name because they couldn't afford the fight, and the change alone cost a ton of money (marketing, branding, etc).

Somewhat related - I worked at the University of Denver when Metro was changing their name. The consensus was that they wanted to change it to Denver State University, which made good sense on a number of levels. DU lobbied hard to stop that, worried about the two universities being confused. It was lame, and now we have the word jumble Metropolitan State University of Denver.

(06-27-2022 02:14 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  

(06-26-2022 06:29 AM)Edgebrookjeff Wrote:  Didn't the University of Louisville go after a high school due to the version of the cardinal logo.

No kidding here... When I was a kid in Aurora, CO, our rival public high school was sued by the International Olympic Committee and made to change their mascots and logos. They were the "Olympians" and their logo had five interlocking (black) rings and a stylized torch. They ended up the "Olys" and had to sandblast the rings and torch off their building and the sign in front of the school. The IOC was absolutely merciless in asserting their trademark...even against a public high school...to the point where it got a little bit nasty. The school district conceded the copyright infringement but asked for a singular permission, but the IOC absolutely refused to consider the usage.

A little later in life, my alma mater (Metropolitan State [now University] College of Denver) had to drop using a "Roadrunner" that was a little too close to the Warner Brothers (Looney Tunes) version. That one never went to court, a simple request from WB (and maybe a threat) was enough to prompt the administration to change the art.

I find it...unhelpful...for Universities and Institutions (like the IOC) to be too zealous against lower-division (i.e. High School, Little league, etc...) sports teams who perhaps inadvertently...or at least without malice...trespass on a Copyright. It is better to see if an amicable solution can be reached, and likely goes a long way to creating fans of your school. A few years back, I drove into Bentleyville, PA, searching for a gas station, and was...happily amused...to find the whole town bedecked with a "B-Paw" and the logos for the "Bentleyville Bearcats" that looked more than a little like our own logos. I took it as flattering that they looked at the University of Cincinnati Bearcats as worth imitating.

And no...I don't think they were infringing on the copyright.

(06-24-2022 07:55 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  

(06-24-2022 04:06 AM)Dannyboy Wrote:  This all comes from their ill fated attempt to sue Ohio University, right? I don’t remember the “THE” crap existing before that.

That's a little more complex than OU would have you believe. OSU was using "Ohio" on various athletic and cheerleading uniforms for decades (see pics of Jesse Owens), and OU started the fight by sending a cease and desist letter to Columbus. OSU, at that point, had to respond to it, so that's how and why the lawsuit began.

Getting along with OSU does not have to be that hard. UC never had the historical bad blood with them that Miami and OU did, but for his own pathetic brand building p.r. Ono went out of his way to try to create it. Pinto has taken the opposite approach and developed a constructive relationship with them, and it hasn't held UC back one bit academically or athletically. BTW, notice that there's no Buckeye-Bobcat Day at the Ohio Statehouse.

Not sure how much or little bad blood there is between UC/TSFC. However, their fans defaced the fieldhouse when UC played them for the NC. When Shoemaker was trying to secure state funds for the bball facility, I heard they lobbied legislators for certain restrictions, i.e. less capacity than St John's and multipurpose vs bball only. Gee went out his way to make sure funding was diverted away from UC, as well as other state institutions.

(06-28-2022 09:41 AM)geef Wrote:  I remember hearing about that when I lived there, Jerry. Yeah, the IOC sucks. There's a beloved restaurant here in Portland now called Olympia Provisions. It was Olympic Provisions until five or six years ago, but the IOC threatened to sue. The restaurant changed their name because they couldn't afford the fight, and the change alone cost a ton of money (marketing, branding, etc).

Somewhat related - I worked at the University of Denver when Metro was changing their name. The consensus was that they wanted to change it to Denver State University, which made good sense on a number of levels. DU lobbied hard to stop that, worried about the two universities being confused. It was lame, and now we have the word jumble Metropolitan State University of Denver.

(06-27-2022 02:14 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  

(06-26-2022 06:29 AM)Edgebrookjeff Wrote:  Didn't the University of Louisville go after a high school due to the version of the cardinal logo.

No kidding here... When I was a kid in Aurora, CO, our rival public high school was sued by the International Olympic Committee and made to change their mascots and logos. They were the "Olympians" and their logo had five interlocking (black) rings and a stylized torch. They ended up the "Olys" and had to sandblast the rings and torch off their building and the sign in front of the school. The IOC was absolutely merciless in asserting their trademark...even against a public high school...to the point where it got a little bit nasty. The school district conceded the copyright infringement but asked for a singular permission, but the IOC absolutely refused to consider the usage.

A little later in life, my alma mater (Metropolitan State [now University] College of Denver) had to drop using a "Roadrunner" that was a little too close to the Warner Brothers (Looney Tunes) version. That one never went to court, a simple request from WB (and maybe a threat) was enough to prompt the administration to change the art.

I find it...unhelpful...for Universities and Institutions (like the IOC) to be too zealous against lower-division (i.e. High School, Little league, etc...) sports teams who perhaps inadvertently...or at least without malice...trespass on a Copyright. It is better to see if an amicable solution can be reached, and likely goes a long way to creating fans of your school. A few years back, I drove into Bentleyville, PA, searching for a gas station, and was...happily amused...to find the whole town bedecked with a "B-Paw" and the logos for the "Bentleyville Bearcats" that looked more than a little like our own logos. I took it as flattering that they looked at the University of Cincinnati Bearcats as worth imitating.

And no...I don't think they were infringing on the copyright.

As to the Metro State thing... Yeah... The "Denver State" thing was a mess on so many levels. The first was the proposal to fold the UC-Denver school into a single entity named "Denver State" but independent of the CU board. Not gonna happen. Then the CU board was really against having another, "major" school to challenge them. There is a kind of parallel here with tOSU; the CU (University of Colorado) Board of Trustees have long fought Colorado State and other Universities to remain preeminent in Colorado... Metro was purposefully chartered as an alternative to CU, and so has never been beholden to the CU board of Regents, so they have long tried to keep Metro in a tight box. (As originally founded, Metro State was supposed to be a purely undergraduate school, and can never sponsor football...though they have flirted with D1 BB from time-to-time, which was never envisioned when it was founded.) But yeah, the University of Denver really went crazy over the name...DU is a private school, and the "State" thing would have set the schools apart, IMO... But...

Yeah.

(06-23-2022 12:59 AM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  There was a dust-up a couple of years back between the University of Southern California (aka USC) and the University of South Carolina (who also attempted to use the abbreviation USC).

I guess Oregon State and Oklahoma State Universities will have to watch out for tOSU to trademarking the letters O, S, and U next.

I seem to recall hearing that the University of California was ticked off when they tried to register the domain name uc.edu, and discovered that it had already been registered.

(06-28-2022 03:41 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(06-23-2022 12:59 AM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  There was a dust-up a couple of years back between the University of Southern California (aka USC) and the University of South Carolina (who also attempted to use the abbreviation USC).

I guess Oregon State and Oklahoma State Universities will have to watch out for tOSU to trademarking the letters O, S, and U next.

I seem to recall hearing that the University of California was ticked off when they tried to register the domain name uc.edu, and discovered that it had already been registered.

My understanding is that's correct and UC was first to that party.

Imagine all the high tech. folks out there being scooped by us rubes here in flyover country?

(06-28-2022 03:27 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  

(06-28-2022 09:41 AM)geef Wrote:  I remember hearing about that when I lived there, Jerry. Yeah, the IOC sucks. There's a beloved restaurant here in Portland now called Olympia Provisions. It was Olympic Provisions until five or six years ago, but the IOC threatened to sue. The restaurant changed their name because they couldn't afford the fight, and the change alone cost a ton of money (marketing, branding, etc).

Somewhat related - I worked at the University of Denver when Metro was changing their name. The consensus was that they wanted to change it to Denver State University, which made good sense on a number of levels. DU lobbied hard to stop that, worried about the two universities being confused. It was lame, and now we have the word jumble Metropolitan State University of Denver.

(06-27-2022 02:14 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  

(06-26-2022 06:29 AM)Edgebrookjeff Wrote:  Didn't the University of Louisville go after a high school due to the version of the cardinal logo.

No kidding here... When I was a kid in Aurora, CO, our rival public high school was sued by the International Olympic Committee and made to change their mascots and logos. They were the "Olympians" and their logo had five interlocking (black) rings and a stylized torch. They ended up the "Olys" and had to sandblast the rings and torch off their building and the sign in front of the school. The IOC was absolutely merciless in asserting their trademark...even against a public high school...to the point where it got a little bit nasty. The school district conceded the copyright infringement but asked for a singular permission, but the IOC absolutely refused to consider the usage.

A little later in life, my alma mater (Metropolitan State [now University] College of Denver) had to drop using a "Roadrunner" that was a little too close to the Warner Brothers (Looney Tunes) version. That one never went to court, a simple request from WB (and maybe a threat) was enough to prompt the administration to change the art.

I find it...unhelpful...for Universities and Institutions (like the IOC) to be too zealous against lower-division (i.e. High School, Little league, etc...) sports teams who perhaps inadvertently...or at least without malice...trespass on a Copyright. It is better to see if an amicable solution can be reached, and likely goes a long way to creating fans of your school. A few years back, I drove into Bentleyville, PA, searching for a gas station, and was...happily amused...to find the whole town bedecked with a "B-Paw" and the logos for the "Bentleyville Bearcats" that looked more than a little like our own logos. I took it as flattering that they looked at the University of Cincinnati Bearcats as worth imitating.

And no...I don't think they were infringing on the copyright.

As to the Metro State thing... Yeah... The "Denver State" thing was a mess on so many levels. The first was the proposal to fold the UC-Denver school into a single entity named "Denver State" but independent of the CU board. Not gonna happen. Then the CU board was really against having another, "major" school to challenge them. There is a kind of parallel here with tOSU; the CU (University of Colorado) Board of Trustees have long fought Colorado State and other Universities to remain preeminent in Colorado... Metro was purposefully chartered as an alternative to CU, and so has never been beholden to the CU board of Regents, so they have long tried to keep Metro in a tight box. (As originally founded, Metro State was supposed to be a purely undergraduate school, and can never sponsor football...though they have flirted with D1 BB from time-to-time, which was never envisioned when it was founded.) But yeah, the University of Denver really went crazy over the name...DU is a private school, and the "State" thing would have set the schools apart, IMO... But...

Yeah.

See, I don't have a problem with CU keeping Metro from empire building and adding on a bunch of Ph.D and research programs that are destined to go nowhere. That's the problem in Ohio. Bowling Green and OU and Kent should never have been allowed to start piling on redundant graduate/research programs in the hopes that they could take on the throne.

Now, before anyone attacks me, UC was never under the thumb of the Eagleson Bill restrictions and had built up multiple graduate, research and professional programs before it entered the state system. We entered in the perfect position to be the VaTech to OSU's UVA, and in a sane and structured system that's what we'd be recognized as. Instead, Ohio has this dysfunctional, competitive mess where every state school thinks it can become some AAU powerhouse if it adds on enough Ph.D programs ranked below 100. UC is held back far more by the Bowling Greens, Kents and Ohios below us than it is by OSU.

And I've left Miami out of this because for a long time they weren't really looking to add on a ton of grad/research programs and were content to fulfill their role as a finishing school for preppy business majors. That, however, is starting to change as Miami realizes that being a complete non-entity in STEM fields is seriously hampering its ability to attract high quality undergrads. They've started to make rumbles that they want to add on a bunch of engineering and hard science programs, and it will be a complete abomination if state money is sent to those rather than similar and long standing programs at UC that actually are or have a chance to become nationally relevant programs.

(06-28-2022 05:48 PM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  

(06-28-2022 03:27 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  

(06-28-2022 09:41 AM)geef Wrote:  I remember hearing about that when I lived there, Jerry. Yeah, the IOC sucks. There's a beloved restaurant here in Portland now called Olympia Provisions. It was Olympic Provisions until five or six years ago, but the IOC threatened to sue. The restaurant changed their name because they couldn't afford the fight, and the change alone cost a ton of money (marketing, branding, etc).

Somewhat related - I worked at the University of Denver when Metro was changing their name. The consensus was that they wanted to change it to Denver State University, which made good sense on a number of levels. DU lobbied hard to stop that, worried about the two universities being confused. It was lame, and now we have the word jumble Metropolitan State University of Denver.

(06-27-2022 02:14 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  

(06-26-2022 06:29 AM)Edgebrookjeff Wrote:  Didn't the University of Louisville go after a high school due to the version of the cardinal logo.

No kidding here... When I was a kid in Aurora, CO, our rival public high school was sued by the International Olympic Committee and made to change their mascots and logos. They were the "Olympians" and their logo had five interlocking (black) rings and a stylized torch. They ended up the "Olys" and had to sandblast the rings and torch off their building and the sign in front of the school. The IOC was absolutely merciless in asserting their trademark...even against a public high school...to the point where it got a little bit nasty. The school district conceded the copyright infringement but asked for a singular permission, but the IOC absolutely refused to consider the usage.

A little later in life, my alma mater (Metropolitan State [now University] College of Denver) had to drop using a "Roadrunner" that was a little too close to the Warner Brothers (Looney Tunes) version. That one never went to court, a simple request from WB (and maybe a threat) was enough to prompt the administration to change the art.

I find it...unhelpful...for Universities and Institutions (like the IOC) to be too zealous against lower-division (i.e. High School, Little league, etc...) sports teams who perhaps inadvertently...or at least without malice...trespass on a Copyright. It is better to see if an amicable solution can be reached, and likely goes a long way to creating fans of your school. A few years back, I drove into Bentleyville, PA, searching for a gas station, and was...happily amused...to find the whole town bedecked with a "B-Paw" and the logos for the "Bentleyville Bearcats" that looked more than a little like our own logos. I took it as flattering that they looked at the University of Cincinnati Bearcats as worth imitating.

And no...I don't think they were infringing on the copyright.

As to the Metro State thing... Yeah... The "Denver State" thing was a mess on so many levels. The first was the proposal to fold the UC-Denver school into a single entity named "Denver State" but independent of the CU board. Not gonna happen. Then the CU board was really against having another, "major" school to challenge them. There is a kind of parallel here with tOSU; the CU (University of Colorado) Board of Trustees have long fought Colorado State and other Universities to remain preeminent in Colorado... Metro was purposefully chartered as an alternative to CU, and so has never been beholden to the CU board of Regents, so they have long tried to keep Metro in a tight box. (As originally founded, Metro State was supposed to be a purely undergraduate school, and can never sponsor football...though they have flirted with D1 BB from time-to-time, which was never envisioned when it was founded.) But yeah, the University of Denver really went crazy over the name...DU is a private school, and the "State" thing would have set the schools apart, IMO... But...

Yeah.

See, I don't have a problem with CU keeping Metro from empire building and adding on a bunch of Ph.D and research programs that are destined to go nowhere. That's the problem in Ohio. Bowling Green and OU and Kent should never have been allowed to start piling on redundant graduate/research programs in the hopes that they could take on the throne.

Now, before anyone attacks me, UC was never under the thumb of the Eagleson Bill restrictions and had built up multiple graduate, research and professional programs before it entered the state system. We entered in the perfect position to be the VaTech to OSU's UVA, and in a sane and structured system that's what we'd be recognized as. Instead, Ohio has this dysfunctional, competitive mess where every state school thinks it can become some AAU powerhouse if it adds on enough Ph.D programs ranked below 100. UC is held back far more by the Bowling Greens, Kents and Ohios below us than it is by OSU.

And I've left Miami out of this because for a long time they weren't really looking to add on a ton of grad/research programs and were content to fulfill their role as a finishing school for preppy business majors. That, however, is starting to change as Miami realizes that being a complete non-entity in STEM fields is seriously hampering its ability to attract high quality undergrads. They've started to make rumbles that they want to add on a bunch of engineering and hard science programs, and it will be a complete abomination if state money is sent to those rather than similar and long standing programs at UC that actually are or have a chance to become nationally relevant programs.

Great assessment of the state of public higher education in Ohio.

Someone in UC's administration pointed out to me years ago how ridiculous that there were multiple PhD programs, for example, in history and philosophy in the state system. Maybe UC and OSU should offer those and the rest get shut down. Of course there are tenured faculty at those schools where programs would be terminated but this could be a slow conversion where faculty are given the option to continue teaching undergraduate and masters' course or are offered buyouts over several years.

Change has to start somewhere; Ohio isn't a high growth state and future enrollments state-wide don't bode well for sustaining these fiefdoms that were built over the course of the 20th century. Worse still, sustaining them at the expense of creating excellence at both UC and OSU is shortsighted.

(06-29-2022 08:40 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  

(06-28-2022 05:48 PM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  

(06-28-2022 03:27 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  

(06-28-2022 09:41 AM)geef Wrote:  I remember hearing about that when I lived there, Jerry. Yeah, the IOC sucks. There's a beloved restaurant here in Portland now called Olympia Provisions. It was Olympic Provisions until five or six years ago, but the IOC threatened to sue. The restaurant changed their name because they couldn't afford the fight, and the change alone cost a ton of money (marketing, branding, etc).

Somewhat related - I worked at the University of Denver when Metro was changing their name. The consensus was that they wanted to change it to Denver State University, which made good sense on a number of levels. DU lobbied hard to stop that, worried about the two universities being confused. It was lame, and now we have the word jumble Metropolitan State University of Denver.

(06-27-2022 02:14 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  No kidding here... When I was a kid in Aurora, CO, our rival public high school was sued by the International Olympic Committee and made to change their mascots and logos. They were the "Olympians" and their logo had five interlocking (black) rings and a stylized torch. They ended up the "Olys" and had to sandblast the rings and torch off their building and the sign in front of the school. The IOC was absolutely merciless in asserting their trademark...even against a public high school...to the point where it got a little bit nasty. The school district conceded the copyright infringement but asked for a singular permission, but the IOC absolutely refused to consider the usage.

A little later in life, my alma mater (Metropolitan State [now University] College of Denver) had to drop using a "Roadrunner" that was a little too close to the Warner Brothers (Looney Tunes) version. That one never went to court, a simple request from WB (and maybe a threat) was enough to prompt the administration to change the art.

I find it...unhelpful...for Universities and Institutions (like the IOC) to be too zealous against lower-division (i.e. High School, Little league, etc...) sports teams who perhaps inadvertently...or at least without malice...trespass on a Copyright. It is better to see if an amicable solution can be reached, and likely goes a long way to creating fans of your school. A few years back, I drove into Bentleyville, PA, searching for a gas station, and was...happily amused...to find the whole town bedecked with a "B-Paw" and the logos for the "Bentleyville Bearcats" that looked more than a little like our own logos. I took it as flattering that they looked at the University of Cincinnati Bearcats as worth imitating.

And no...I don't think they were infringing on the copyright.

As to the Metro State thing... Yeah... The "Denver State" thing was a mess on so many levels. The first was the proposal to fold the UC-Denver school into a single entity named "Denver State" but independent of the CU board. Not gonna happen. Then the CU board was really against having another, "major" school to challenge them. There is a kind of parallel here with tOSU; the CU (University of Colorado) Board of Trustees have long fought Colorado State and other Universities to remain preeminent in Colorado... Metro was purposefully chartered as an alternative to CU, and so has never been beholden to the CU board of Regents, so they have long tried to keep Metro in a tight box. (As originally founded, Metro State was supposed to be a purely undergraduate school, and can never sponsor football...though they have flirted with D1 BB from time-to-time, which was never envisioned when it was founded.) But yeah, the University of Denver really went crazy over the name...DU is a private school, and the "State" thing would have set the schools apart, IMO... But...

Yeah.

See, I don't have a problem with CU keeping Metro from empire building and adding on a bunch of Ph.D and research programs that are destined to go nowhere. That's the problem in Ohio. Bowling Green and OU and Kent should never have been allowed to start piling on redundant graduate/research programs in the hopes that they could take on the throne.

Now, before anyone attacks me, UC was never under the thumb of the Eagleson Bill restrictions and had built up multiple graduate, research and professional programs before it entered the state system. We entered in the perfect position to be the VaTech to OSU's UVA, and in a sane and structured system that's what we'd be recognized as. Instead, Ohio has this dysfunctional, competitive mess where every state school thinks it can become some AAU powerhouse if it adds on enough Ph.D programs ranked below 100. UC is held back far more by the Bowling Greens, Kents and Ohios below us than it is by OSU.

And I've left Miami out of this because for a long time they weren't really looking to add on a ton of grad/research programs and were content to fulfill their role as a finishing school for preppy business majors. That, however, is starting to change as Miami realizes that being a complete non-entity in STEM fields is seriously hampering its ability to attract high quality undergrads. They've started to make rumbles that they want to add on a bunch of engineering and hard science programs, and it will be a complete abomination if state money is sent to those rather than similar and long standing programs at UC that actually are or have a chance to become nationally relevant programs.

Great assessment of the state of public higher education in Ohio.

Someone in UC's administration pointed out to me years ago how ridiculous that there were multiple PhD programs, for example, in history and philosophy in the state system. Maybe UC and OSU should offer those and the rest get shut down. Of course there are tenured faculty at those schools where programs would be terminated but this could be a slow conversion where faculty are given the option to continue teaching undergraduate and masters' course or are offered buyouts over several years.

Change has to start somewhere; Ohio isn't a high growth state and future enrollments state-wide don't bode well for sustaining these fiefdoms that were built over the course of the 20th century. Worse still, sustaining them at the expense of creating excellence at both UC and OSU is shortsighted.

I've been reading where UC's goal is to have 60,000 students by 2030. Depending on what source you use, we are at ~46K students now. Where is UC going to pick up another 14K students in a state where the numbers indicate fewer college eligible students are available to enroll? It would seem to me there is no way they add that many students over the next years unless it counts on-line offerings or they build/acquire another regional campus.

(06-29-2022 08:45 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(06-29-2022 08:40 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  

(06-28-2022 05:48 PM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  

(06-28-2022 03:27 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  

(06-28-2022 09:41 AM)geef Wrote:  I remember hearing about that when I lived there, Jerry. Yeah, the IOC sucks. There's a beloved restaurant here in Portland now called Olympia Provisions. It was Olympic Provisions until five or six years ago, but the IOC threatened to sue. The restaurant changed their name because they couldn't afford the fight, and the change alone cost a ton of money (marketing, branding, etc).

Somewhat related - I worked at the University of Denver when Metro was changing their name. The consensus was that they wanted to change it to Denver State University, which made good sense on a number of levels. DU lobbied hard to stop that, worried about the two universities being confused. It was lame, and now we have the word jumble Metropolitan State University of Denver.

As to the Metro State thing... Yeah... The "Denver State" thing was a mess on so many levels. The first was the proposal to fold the UC-Denver school into a single entity named "Denver State" but independent of the CU board. Not gonna happen. Then the CU board was really against having another, "major" school to challenge them. There is a kind of parallel here with tOSU; the CU (University of Colorado) Board of Trustees have long fought Colorado State and other Universities to remain preeminent in Colorado... Metro was purposefully chartered as an alternative to CU, and so has never been beholden to the CU board of Regents, so they have long tried to keep Metro in a tight box. (As originally founded, Metro State was supposed to be a purely undergraduate school, and can never sponsor football...though they have flirted with D1 BB from time-to-time, which was never envisioned when it was founded.) But yeah, the University of Denver really went crazy over the name...DU is a private school, and the "State" thing would have set the schools apart, IMO... But...

Yeah.

See, I don't have a problem with CU keeping Metro from empire building and adding on a bunch of Ph.D and research programs that are destined to go nowhere. That's the problem in Ohio. Bowling Green and OU and Kent should never have been allowed to start piling on redundant graduate/research programs in the hopes that they could take on the throne.

Now, before anyone attacks me, UC was never under the thumb of the Eagleson Bill restrictions and had built up multiple graduate, research and professional programs before it entered the state system. We entered in the perfect position to be the VaTech to OSU's UVA, and in a sane and structured system that's what we'd be recognized as. Instead, Ohio has this dysfunctional, competitive mess where every state school thinks it can become some AAU powerhouse if it adds on enough Ph.D programs ranked below 100. UC is held back far more by the Bowling Greens, Kents and Ohios below us than it is by OSU.

And I've left Miami out of this because for a long time they weren't really looking to add on a ton of grad/research programs and were content to fulfill their role as a finishing school for preppy business majors. That, however, is starting to change as Miami realizes that being a complete non-entity in STEM fields is seriously hampering its ability to attract high quality undergrads. They've started to make rumbles that they want to add on a bunch of engineering and hard science programs, and it will be a complete abomination if state money is sent to those rather than similar and long standing programs at UC that actually are or have a chance to become nationally relevant programs.

Great assessment of the state of public higher education in Ohio.

Someone in UC's administration pointed out to me years ago how ridiculous that there were multiple PhD programs, for example, in history and philosophy in the state system. Maybe UC and OSU should offer those and the rest get shut down. Of course there are tenured faculty at those schools where programs would be terminated but this could be a slow conversion where faculty are given the option to continue teaching undergraduate and masters' course or are offered buyouts over several years.

Change has to start somewhere; Ohio isn't a high growth state and future enrollments state-wide don't bode well for sustaining these fiefdoms that were built over the course of the 20th century. Worse still, sustaining them at the expense of creating excellence at both UC and OSU is shortsighted.

I've been reading where UC's goal is to have 60,000 students by 2030. Depending on what source you use, we are at ~46K students now. Where is UC going to pick up another 14K students in a state where the numbers indicate fewer college eligible students are available to enroll? It would seem to me there is no way they add that many students over the next years unless it counts on-line offerings or they build/acquire another regional campus.

Bolded, unless there is some secret plan to expand the Clifton Campus footprint, it's hard to imagine where you could stuff another 14,000 students and the faculty and staff needed to serve them.

Maybe College of Engineering moves to the Innovation District @ MLK someday? That frees up space but I really wouldn't like any move that fragments the campus community in that way. Perhaps it's a "new" branch in West Chester or Liberty Township?

Continuing the logo conversation... Spencerville, OH is home of the Bearcats and one Amy Fickell.

They sport a mighty creative S-Paw

(06-29-2022 10:05 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  I've been reading where UC's goal is to have 60,000 students by 2030. Depending on what source you use, we are at ~46K students now. Where is UC going to pick up another 14K students in a state where the numbers indicate fewer college eligible students are available to enroll? It would seem to me there is no way they add that many students over the next years unless it counts on-line offerings or they build/acquire another regional campus.

Bolded, unless there is some secret plan to expand the Clifton Campus footprint, it's hard to imagine where you could stuff another 14,000 students and the faculty and staff needed to serve them.

Maybe College of Engineering moves to the Innovation District @ MLK someday? That frees up space but I really wouldn't like any move that fragments the campus community in that way. Perhaps it's a "new" branch in West Chester or Liberty Township?
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Maybe they know something about Wright St. We've all heard the "talk" about their financial situation and the speculation that they might be absorbed into "The" OSU or UC. That would certainly add a major chunk of students.