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What is the ideal size of a FBS conference?

8? 10? 12? 14? 16? 18? 20?

Somewhere in between?

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You're just begging inutech to come here and use a bunch "greater than" symbols.

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Question:

Is there an ideal size for every conference, or does it depend on the conference - - e.g., the conference's current location and footprint?

Does anyone think that the P5 conferences should be bigger than the G5 conferences?

Does anyone think that the Big 12, AAC, SBC, and SEC shouldn't be expanding, or that there should be both a minimum and maximum conference size?

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I don't think 9 is the actual minimum.

But it is the perfect number (for football).

(06-22-2022 08:34 AM)inutech Wrote:  I don't think 9 is the actual minimum.

But it is the perfect number (for football).

Q: Why is 9 the perfect number?

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10 for Football, 9 game schedule

12 for Basketball, 22 game schedule

(06-22-2022 08:06 AM)Milwaukee Wrote:  .

Question:

Is there an ideal size for every conference, or does it depend on the conference - - e.g., the conference's current location and footprint?

Does anyone think that the P5 conferences should be bigger than the G5 conferences?

Does anyone think that the Big 12, AAC, SBC, and SEC shouldn't be expanding, or that there should be both a minimum and maximum conference size?

.

It always depends on the league - there's no hard and fast rule.

My personal opinion is that 16 schools is the maximum size to still be a true conference as opposed to a TV scheduling arrangement (where schools don't end up playing each other any more than if they were non-conference opponents). However, the reality is if a massive whale like Notre Dame wants to join, there will always be exceptions.

(06-22-2022 08:40 AM)Milwaukee Wrote:  

(06-22-2022 08:34 AM)inutech Wrote:  I don't think 9 is the actual minimum.

But it is the perfect number (for football).

Q: Why is 9 the perfect number?

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A: Perfect round-robin scheduling. Decent inter-connectivity with 2/3 conference games and 1/3 OOC. Balanced home and away schedule for conference play (and in theory, overall).

If you've just got to have a conference championship game, 12 is the next best number because at least you can rotate through the other schools in a decent period of time whether you do divisions or pods or scheduling partners or whatever. I prefer everybody playing everybody to a CCG in a platonic ideal scenario.

9 isn't as good for basketball I'll admit, but my bias is towards football.

When I'm king of college sports I'm making everyone go to nine (but I'd listen to arguments for 12).

8 is actually the minimum for FBS, that is to say, 8 full members have to sponsor the sport—affiliates can’t be counted towards the total. It’s in essence the “Big East Rule” due to their hybrid 4-full, 4 affiliate model in the early 90s.

10. Round-robin in football with 1v2 in the CCG and every member gets a home and home in basketball.

9-12

It all depends on the conference and what they want to accomplish.

(06-22-2022 08:34 AM)inutech Wrote:  I don't think 9 is the actual minimum.

But it is the perfect number (for football).

I'm disappointed by the lack of "greater than" symbols. Now you're just making my post look ridiculous.

(06-22-2022 09:13 AM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  9-12

It all depends on the conference and what they want to accomplish.

Agree.

Question to those who think 9-12 is the optimal number: Why is it that 3 P5 conferences have 14 members and that 2 G5 conferences have decided to expand to 14 members? Was that not optimal from their standpoint?

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(06-22-2022 09:25 AM)dawgonit Wrote:  

(06-22-2022 08:34 AM)inutech Wrote:  I don't think 9 is the actual minimum.

But it is the perfect number (for football).

I'm disappointed by the lack of "greater than" symbols. Now you're just making my post look ridiculous.

9 >> 12 >>>>>>>>>>>>> 8 > 10 = 14 > 16>>>> 11 > 13 > 15



Here is the link to the CUSA discussion of this topic:
https://www.csnbbs.com/thread-943801.html

(06-22-2022 09:29 AM)Milwaukee Wrote:  

(06-22-2022 09:13 AM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  9-12

It all depends on the conference and what they want to accomplish.

Agree.

Question to those who think 9-12 is the optimal number: Why is it that 3 P5 conferences have 14 members and that 2 G5 conferences have decided to expand to 14 members? Was that not optimal from their standpoint?

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Because we don't operate in a world of platonic ideals. As FtT said above, even if you already have 16 schools, if Notre Dame suddenly wants to join (or tv decides they'll pay you more money per school if you'll add anyone) you just do it. Your conference would be "worse" from an ideal "structure of a conference" standpoint but "better" because you'd make more money/save on travel/have better exposure/some other positive.

I guess the real issue is that in the real world "all things being equal" isn't really possible. A nine team league with Notre Dame is better than a 10 team league with Notre Dame (or a 9 team league without Notre Dame) but it's also not good to boot a team out to make room for them. So you make that trade-off.

On the other end of the spectrum, CUSA is about to actually have 9 teams. That's great from an academic, perfectly balanced, round-robin, one true champion standpoint. But unfortunately, the 9 teams in question are all spread out and with the exception of a couple of pairs, don't have a lot of history with or interest in one another (and will include several historically, let's say "challenged" programs). 9 is the best number, but these 9 aren't necessarily the best pairings with each other. The old CUSA had 14 theoretically for insurance (which didn't pan out) and negotiating (which didn't pan out) and for travel (which I think helped quite a bit, but Marshall and ODU really didn't like having to play 8 games per year in Texas, which apparently they had to do, so maybe not). The new SB went to 14 in order to essentially give themselves 2 mini-conferences with really good geography and history.

Etc.

To be honest I didn't hate the idea of a Super Conference USA somebody tossed around a few years ago that merged with the Sun Belt.

24 total in 4 pods of 6 teams. Label the pods North/South/East/West and then a have Conference Semi-Final + Conference Championship playoff. There is some finer details that would need to be worked out regarding post-season play but I won't begin creating that further.

I also like 16 because it is more flexible than 14 in scheduling. This is why looking back on it I wish the Sun Belt would have brought in 2 more teams from C-USA.

I'm in the minority opinion most likely though so I'm just going to enjoy football for what I can these days.

Twelve. The Pacific-12 and the Mid-American are perfect that way.

8 or 9 for Football

Up to 12 for Basketball

My vote is for 9-12. 14 or more is way too big (CUSA learned this lesson and the SBC is about to). You have to split up the revenue pie into too many pieces (this matters more for G5 conferences than P5 conferences) and you don't get to play teams from the other division very often.

Any even number, as long as all the conferences are at the same size.