Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Post Reply 
How long was the SEC contemplating a move to 12?
Author Message
Fighting Muskie Offline
Senior Chief Realignmentologist
*

Posts: 8,831
Joined: Sep 2016
Reputation: 411
I Root For: Ohio St, UC,MAC
Location: Biden Cesspool
Post: #1
How long was the SEC contemplating a move to 12?
The common narrative, at least from the SEC, is that they only voted to go to 12 in 1990 because the Big 10 added Penn St the December prior and they feared an expansion arms race. Was that really the case though?

The PSAC approached the NCAA with the CCG concept in 1986 and were going to implement it in 1988. The DI-A conferences all had to vote to approve it. Were they already contemplating the possible advantages the CCG afforded then?

Was there any hesitation to expand then, for fear of the optics of being an aggressor and the Penn St move gave them something they could pin it on?

The SWC was in the thick of the Pony Express controversy—going after their teams then would have come across as kicking them while they were down.
06-21-2022 06:43 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Advertisement


Porcine Offline
2nd String
*

Posts: 457
Joined: Oct 2021
Reputation: 43
I Root For: Arkansas, SBC
Location: Northern Arkansas
Post: #2
RE: How long was the SEC contemplating a move to 12?
The SEC wanted to go bigger than 12 and do it a few years earlier than that, but Bob Bullock and few other Texas politicians ruined the plan so it 30 years to complete.
06-21-2022 07:26 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
_C2_ Offline
The King of Overanalysis
*

Posts: 20,487
Joined: Feb 2008
Reputation: 415
I Root For: Houston, PVAMU
Location: League City, TX
Post: #3
RE: How long was the SEC contemplating a move to 12?
The SEC coveted Houston and Florida State as early as the 1960's to go to 12.
06-21-2022 08:03 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Advertisement


Nerdlinger Offline
Realignment Enthusiast
*

Posts: 4,374
Joined: May 2017
Reputation: 304
I Root For: Realignment!
Location: Murica
Post: #4
RE: How long was the SEC contemplating a move to 12?
(06-21-2022 08:03 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  The SEC coveted Houston and Florida State as early as the 1960's to go to 12.

They were already at 12 in the '60s.
06-21-2022 08:06 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
_C2_ Offline
The King of Overanalysis
*

Posts: 20,487
Joined: Feb 2008
Reputation: 415
I Root For: Houston, PVAMU
Location: League City, TX
Post: #5
RE: How long was the SEC contemplating a move to 12?
Late 60's.
06-21-2022 08:31 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Advertisement


Fighting Muskie Offline
Senior Chief Realignmentologist
*

Posts: 8,831
Joined: Sep 2016
Reputation: 411
I Root For: Ohio St, UC,MAC
Location: Biden Cesspool
Post: #6
RE: How long was the SEC contemplating a move to 12?
(06-21-2022 08:06 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(06-21-2022 08:03 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  The SEC coveted Houston and Florida State as early as the 1960's to go to 12.

They were already at 12 in the '60s.

Right. Tulane and GT defections dropped them to 10. That’s another great what if: does the SEC still expand in the 90s if they already had 12?
06-21-2022 08:36 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
JRsec Offline
Super Moderator
*

Posts: 29,730
Joined: Mar 2012
Reputation: 3903
I Root For: SEC
Location:
Post: #7
RE: How long was the SEC contemplating a move to 12?
(06-21-2022 08:31 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  Late 60's.

Dude, FSU wasn't even on the radar until 1977. Houston was not a consideration which made it out of the discussion phase. TCU had more legs, but was way down the priority list.

The original plan for Kramer was to make a decisive move to 16. Arkansas, Texas, Texas A&M, (silently Oklahoma), Clemson and FSU. Texas and A&M had to back out due to politics so UT's silent partner which they spoke for withdrew as well. This helped Bowden's decision to head to the ACC, along with some other things. Broyles wanted in and a Clemson trustee told a USC trustee the SEC was looking around so USC applied. Kramer wanted a playoff so those 2 it was. WVU and VaTech expressed interest with WVU applying. Miami was spoken with and claimed they were offered. Were they? Miami paper said yes, but so did Boren when he spoke with the SEC in 2011 and insisted we take OSU also, and we said no.

In the process an application has to be made before a vote can be held. No vote no membership offer. How solid is this? OU and UT had to submit formal applications to be voted on. The SEC isn't going to get bent out of shape with face saving done by schools spoken with. If we aren't going to be favorable on an application we don't ever hold a formal vote, we simply table it so we don't have to tell some president's school they were rejected.

Things reported in papers about realignment are seldom the whole truth and usually a heavily sanitized one because of legalities.

But the initial move was to go to 16. We now have 4 of those schools. We have South Carolina instead of Clemson, and Missouri instead of FSU. 4.5 out of 6 ain't bad!
(This post was last modified: 06-21-2022 08:58 PM by JRsec.)
06-21-2022 08:55 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Advertisement


CarlSmithCenter Online
Special Teams
*

Posts: 843
Joined: Jun 2014
Reputation: 84
I Root For: Ball So Hard U
Location:
Post: #8
RE: How long was the SEC contemplating a move to 12?
(06-21-2022 08:55 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(06-21-2022 08:31 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  Late 60's.

Dude, FSU wasn't even on the radar until 1977. Houston was not a consideration which made it out of the discussion phase. TCU had more legs, but was way down the priority list.

The original plan for Kramer was to make a decisive move to 16. Arkansas, Texas, Texas A&M, (silently Oklahoma), Clemson and FSU. Texas and A&M had to back out due to politics so UT's silent partner which they spoke for withdrew as well. This helped Bowden's decision to head to the ACC, along with some other things. Broyles wanted in and a Clemson trustee told a USC trustee the SEC was looking around so USC applied. Kramer wanted a playoff so those 2 it was. WVU and VaTech expressed interest with WVU applying. Miami was spoken with and claimed they were offered. Were they? Miami paper said yes, but so did Boren when he spoke with the SEC in 2011 and insisted we take OSU also, and we said no.

In the process an application has to be made before a vote can be held. No vote no membership offer. How solid is this? OU and UT had to submit formal applications to be voted on. The SEC isn't going to get bent out of shape with face saving done by schools spoken with. If we aren't going to be favorable on an application we don't ever hold a formal vote, we simply table it so we don't have to tell some president's school they were rejected.

Things reported in papers about realignment are seldom the whole truth and usually a heavily sanitized one because of legalities.

But the initial move was to go to 16. We now have 4 of those schools. We have South Carolina instead of Clemson, and Missouri instead of FSU. 4.5 out of 6 ain't bad!

Clemson wouldn’t have won two CFB titles as an SEC member. The Gamecocks have won multiple titles in baseball and WBB, and for all the complaints about the heat, Columbia is an hour and change from the Charlotte airport.
06-21-2022 09:17 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
_C2_ Offline
The King of Overanalysis
*

Posts: 20,487
Joined: Feb 2008
Reputation: 415
I Root For: Houston, PVAMU
Location: League City, TX
Post: #9
RE: How long was the SEC contemplating a move to 12?
(06-21-2022 08:55 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(06-21-2022 08:31 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  Late 60's.

Dude, FSU wasn't even on the radar until 1977. Houston was not a consideration which made it out of the discussion phase. TCU had more legs, but was way down the priority list.

The original plan for Kramer was to make a decisive move to 16. Arkansas, Texas, Texas A&M, (silently Oklahoma), Clemson and FSU. Texas and A&M had to back out due to politics so UT's silent partner which they spoke for withdrew as well. This helped Bowden's decision to head to the ACC, along with some other things. Broyles wanted in and a Clemson trustee told a USC trustee the SEC was looking around so USC applied. Kramer wanted a playoff so those 2 it was. WVU and VaTech expressed interest with WVU applying. Miami was spoken with and claimed they were offered. Were they? Miami paper said yes, but so did Boren when he spoke with the SEC in 2011 and insisted we take OSU also, and we said no.

In the process an application has to be made before a vote can be held. No vote no membership offer. How solid is this? OU and UT had to submit formal applications to be voted on. The SEC isn't going to get bent out of shape with face saving done by schools spoken with. If we aren't going to be favorable on an application we don't ever hold a formal vote, we simply table it so we don't have to tell some president's school they were rejected.

Things reported in papers about realignment are seldom the whole truth and usually a heavily sanitized one because of legalities.

But the initial move was to go to 16. We now have 4 of those schools. We have South Carolina instead of Clemson, and Missouri instead of FSU. 4.5 out of 6 ain't bad!

I remember seeing an article on it (sorry, it was posted on Houston's old board many moons ago, I have no link). Houston and Florida State.

This speaks nothing of the SEC's interest in Houston two decades later, which I've also seen articles on (particularly, the San Antonio Express-News).
06-21-2022 10:40 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Advertisement


esayem Offline
Hark The Sound!
*

Posts: 9,954
Joined: Feb 2007
Reputation: 430
I Root For: Statefan
Location: Tobacco Road
Post: #10
RE: How long was the SEC contemplating a move to 12?
The SEC being interested in Houston and FSU is misleading.

Houston and Miami applied to the SEC in the 50’s being sponsored by Ole Miss and Florida, respectively. They didn’t get in.

In the 60’s, FSU and Memphis State applied multiple times with sponsorship coming from Florida and Tennessee, respectively.

The SEC shut down expansion talk in the 70’s by voting against it for ten years. Georgia Tech tried to get back in around 1977 and didn’t have the votes. They may have tried in the late 60’s as well, I can’t recall. Bear Bryant went to bat for them to no avail.
06-22-2022 07:16 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
GarnetAndBlue Offline
Water Engineer
*

Posts: 6
Joined: Aug 2021
Reputation: 3
I Root For: FSU & Michigan
Location:
Post: #11
RE: How long was the SEC contemplating a move to 12?
(06-22-2022 07:16 PM)esayem Wrote:  The SEC being interested in Houston and FSU is misleading.

Houston and Miami applied to the SEC in the 50’s being sponsored by Ole Miss and Florida, respectively. They didn’t get in.

In the 60’s, FSU and Memphis State applied multiple times with sponsorship coming from Florida and Tennessee, respectively.

The SEC shut down expansion talk in the 70’s by voting against it for ten years. Georgia Tech tried to get back in around 1977 and didn’t have the votes. They may have tried in the late 60’s as well, I can’t recall. Bear Bryant went to bat for them to no avail.

No question that there wasn't a single nationally relevant school in the entire State of FL until the 1980's really. Bowden at FSU and Schnelly at Miami brought those schools to rapid and unforeseen heights. UF (despite it's SEC membership) really wasn't a national program until Spurrier did the same in bringing home their first conference championship...followed by a few more trophies. Prior to 1980...you could have easily left the state of FL out of any College Football Encylopedia and not missed anything. But what a run it was for a 30 year stretch or so!
06-23-2022 10:12 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Scoochpooch1 Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,285
Joined: May 2017
Reputation: 66
I Root For: P4
Location:
Post: #12
RE: How long was the SEC contemplating a move to 12?
(06-21-2022 07:26 PM)Porcine Wrote:  The SEC wanted to go bigger than 12 and do it a few years earlier than that, but Bob Bullock and few other Texas politicians ruined the plan so it 30 years to complete.

Oh really? Have any more information?
(This post was last modified: 06-23-2022 10:20 AM by Scoochpooch1.)
06-23-2022 10:18 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2022 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
We allow third-party companies to serve ads and/or collect certain anonymous information when you visit our web site. These companies may use non-personally identifiable information (e.g., click stream information, browser type, time and date, subject of advertisements clicked or scrolled over) during your visits to this and other Web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services likely to be of greater interest to you. These companies typically use a cookie or third party web beacon to collect this information. To learn more about this behavioral advertising practice or to opt-out of this type of advertising, you can visit http://www.networkadvertising.org.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2022 MyBB Group.