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Why is Sam Houston State's football attendance so low?
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Hradmiralsfan Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Why is Sam Houston State's football attendance so low?
(06-18-2022 07:18 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(06-18-2022 07:00 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  I had a hard time seeing SHSU as a good candidate to move up to FBS and I think CUSA made a mistake by adding them. But what's done is done. Good luck to them.

SHSU and Jax St. are both awful. Both states are already saturated with FBS schools.

But then CUSA didn't have many choices.

So saturated that JSU has good attendance. JSU has just as much fan support in Alabama as Troy, USA or UAB. So the demand is there so give the fans the supply
06-19-2022 08:37 AM
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CoastalVANDAL Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Why is Sam Houston State's football attendance so low?
Not sure if FBS will help but I am guessing it will.
FCS does well in isolated areas away from competition .
A Appalachian St or Georgia Southern barely gained fans because they had a nice following. They already had a die hard fan base despite FCS . A school like SHSU or a Portland St might attract casual fans and grow at a higher level . The more isolated schools have a high base but low ceiling. The schools in crowded markets the same ceiling with a low base. The best situation Is Boise St large market far from the other state schools and P5 schools. I would think UTEP and Portland St have that potential if the stars aligned for them. SHSU needs to expand their stadium like CCU did. Where it is barely over 20k but looks legit .
06-19-2022 09:14 AM
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SMUstang Online
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Post: #43
RE: Why is Sam Houston State's football attendance so low?
If you lived in Huntsville, TX, you could choose from Texas A&M, the Houston Texans, or even UH. Why would you go to Sam Houston State football games with no-name opponents?
(This post was last modified: 06-19-2022 10:01 AM by SMUstang.)
06-19-2022 09:59 AM
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DoubleRSU Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Why is Sam Houston State's football attendance so low?
(06-19-2022 09:59 AM)SMUstang Wrote:  If you lived in Huntsville, TX, you could choose from Texas A&M, the Houston Texans, or even UH. Why would you go to Sam Houston State football games with no-name opponents?

The Texans don’t play on the same day as SHSU. If you want to pay big bucks, you can go see those teams play. Plus gas and travel time. Or you can take a shorter trip and support your local team.
06-19-2022 11:51 AM
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UTEPDallas Online
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Post: #45
RE: Why is Sam Houston State's football attendance so low?
It doesn’t help Texas A&M is 45 miles to the west.

Only time will tell if the fans will care seeing a FBS schedule or things will stay the same. A series with Texas State might be a good start. I expect Louisiana Tech to bring a good crowd as well as the UTEP alumni and fans in Houston making the trip up north.
06-19-2022 01:05 PM
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SoCalBobcat78 Online
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Post: #46
RE: Why is Sam Houston State's football attendance so low?
(06-18-2022 03:48 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(06-18-2022 03:45 PM)SMUstang Wrote:  People in the Houston area are either A&M fans, UT fans, or LSU fans. Even UH and Rice don't count for much and they are in Houston proper. SHSU has no shot.

As regards SHSU you are correct, but there are tons of UH fans in Houston. LSU is pretty much on a par with Rice and Baylor, mainly alumni fans.

Houston will offically become an SEC city when Texas joins the SEC. Texas A&M, Texas and LSU will dominate in the city. There are tons of U of H fans and a few Rice fans, so that is what SHSU is up against. Being located in Huntsville, 70 miles north of downtown Houston, probably does not help, either.
06-19-2022 01:17 PM
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Bobcat2013 Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Why is Sam Houston State's football attendance so low?
(06-19-2022 01:05 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  It doesn’t help Texas A&M is 45 miles to the west.

Only time will tell if the fans will care seeing a FBS schedule or things will stay the same. A series with Texas State might be a good start. I expect Louisiana Tech to bring a good crowd as well as the UTEP alumni and fans in Houston making the trip up north.

Ehhh I'd rather us get a series with yall or Rice first before possibly adding SHSU to the schedule. Those are the only FBS schools in Texas we haven't played or added to the schedule since moving up.
(This post was last modified: 06-19-2022 01:54 PM by Bobcat2013.)
06-19-2022 01:43 PM
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_C2_ Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Why is Sam Houston State's football attendance so low?
(06-19-2022 01:17 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(06-18-2022 03:48 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(06-18-2022 03:45 PM)SMUstang Wrote:  People in the Houston area are either A&M fans, UT fans, or LSU fans. Even UH and Rice don't count for much and they are in Houston proper. SHSU has no shot.

As regards SHSU you are correct, but there are tons of UH fans in Houston. LSU is pretty much on a par with Rice and Baylor, mainly alumni fans.

Houston will offically become an SEC city when Texas joins the SEC. Texas A&M, Texas and LSU will dominate in the city. There are tons of U of H fans and a few Rice fans, so that is what SHSU is up against. Being located in Huntsville, 70 miles north of downtown Houston, probably does not help, either.

The SEC will grow in prominence but I don't think Houston will become an SEC city any time soon.
06-19-2022 03:44 PM
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SoCalBobcat78 Online
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Post: #49
RE: Why is Sam Houston State's football attendance so low?
(06-19-2022 03:44 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  
(06-19-2022 01:17 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(06-18-2022 03:48 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(06-18-2022 03:45 PM)SMUstang Wrote:  People in the Houston area are either A&M fans, UT fans, or LSU fans. Even UH and Rice don't count for much and they are in Houston proper. SHSU has no shot.

As regards SHSU you are correct, but there are tons of UH fans in Houston. LSU is pretty much on a par with Rice and Baylor, mainly alumni fans.

Houston will offically become an SEC city when Texas joins the SEC. Texas A&M, Texas and LSU will dominate in the city. There are tons of U of H fans and a few Rice fans, so that is what SHSU is up against. Being located in Huntsville, 70 miles north of downtown Houston, probably does not help, either.

The SEC will grow in prominence but I don't think Houston will become an SEC city any time soon.

Texas A&M and Texas are the two most popular college football teams in Houston and in the state of Texas. LSU's Houston alumni chapter has more than 600 members, the largest LSU alumni chapter outside of Louisiana and the largest out-of-state alumni association in Texas. Once they are all in the SEC together, it will clearly become an SEC city and one of the most popular recruitng destinations for all SEC schools.
06-19-2022 04:09 PM
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_C2_ Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Why is Sam Houston State's football attendance so low?
I disagree, Houston is more of a melting pot of college sports allegiances, all behind pro sports as it stands anyways. Even if Texas and Texas A&M are the most popular in Houston (I somewhat disagree), they don't have enough cachet to turn Houston into an SEC city, at least to an extent that Atlanta or Birmingham are.
06-19-2022 05:37 PM
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SoCalBobcat78 Online
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Post: #51
RE: Why is Sam Houston State's football attendance so low?
(06-19-2022 05:37 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  I disagree, Houston is more of a melting pot of college sports allegiances, all behind pro sports as it stands anyways. Even if Texas and Texas A&M are the most popular in Houston (I somewhat disagree), they don't have enough cachet to turn Houston into an SEC city, at least to an extent that Atlanta or Birmingham are.

The SEC is already dominating Texas recruiting and Houston area recruiting.
https://247sports.com/Season/2022-Footba...l&State=TX

LSU got the top recruit out of the Houston area. Georgia picked up a top cornerback from Clear Lake to add to their defense. Texas A&M is cleaning up in the area. Texas picked up a five star offensive tackle out of Humble and a four star cornerback from the Golden Triangle in Port Arthur. Those are Big 12 picks today, but not in the future.

This is not about comparing college sports and pro sports. Texas A&M and Texas have been the two most popular college football programs for decades in Texas and in Houston. Just wait until they start playing each other again. Then you will really see it.
06-19-2022 06:23 PM
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Bobcat2013 Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Why is Sam Houston State's football attendance so low?
(06-19-2022 06:23 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(06-19-2022 05:37 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  I disagree, Houston is more of a melting pot of college sports allegiances, all behind pro sports as it stands anyways. Even if Texas and Texas A&M are the most popular in Houston (I somewhat disagree), they don't have enough cachet to turn Houston into an SEC city, at least to an extent that Atlanta or Birmingham are.

The SEC is already dominating Texas recruiting and Houston area recruiting.
https://247sports.com/Season/2022-Footba...l&State=TX

LSU got the top recruit out of the Houston area. Georgia picked up a top cornerback from Clear Lake to add to their defense. Texas A&M is cleaning up in the area. Texas picked up a five star offensive tackle out of Humble and a four star cornerback from the Golden Triangle in Port Arthur. Those are Big 12 picks today, but not in the future.

This is not about comparing college sports and pro sports. Texas A&M and Texas have been the two most popular college football programs for decades in Texas and in Houston. Just wait until they start playing each other again. Then you will really see it.

This is why I never wanted UT and A&M to ever play again. When they do it sucks up all of the cfb talk in the state. Heck I'd argue on Thanksgiving they even drowned out the Cowboys, at least for my family. It always annoyed me, a huge Cowboys fan and hater of those two programs, how my fam would kind of casually check in on the Cowboys game but then all 50 people would have their faces glued to the TV when UT and A&M would play. It's been a nice break.
06-19-2022 06:36 PM
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Ridge1982 Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Why is Sam Houston State's football attendance so low?
CFB predates the NFL in the South, so A&M and UT getting more attention within your family isn’t surprising.
06-19-2022 08:00 PM
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Post: #54
RE: Why is Sam Houston State's football attendance so low?
(06-19-2022 08:37 AM)Hradmiralsfan Wrote:  
(06-18-2022 07:18 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(06-18-2022 07:00 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  I had a hard time seeing SHSU as a good candidate to move up to FBS and I think CUSA made a mistake by adding them. But what's done is done. Good luck to them.

SHSU and Jax St. are both awful. Both states are already saturated with FBS schools.

But then CUSA didn't have many choices.

So saturated that JSU has good attendance. JSU has just as much fan support in Alabama as Troy, USA or UAB. So the demand is there so give the fans the supply

There isn't that much supply of talent.
06-19-2022 09:16 PM
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Gemofthehills Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Why is Sam Houston State's football attendance so low?
(06-19-2022 09:16 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(06-19-2022 08:37 AM)Hradmiralsfan Wrote:  
(06-18-2022 07:18 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(06-18-2022 07:00 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  I had a hard time seeing SHSU as a good candidate to move up to FBS and I think CUSA made a mistake by adding them. But what's done is done. Good luck to them.

SHSU and Jax St. are both awful. Both states are already saturated with FBS schools.

But then CUSA didn't have many choices.

So saturated that JSU has good attendance. JSU has just as much fan support in Alabama as Troy, USA or UAB. So the demand is there so give the fans the supply

There isn't that much supply of talent.

So, if we get the players it will be someone else's problem. If you take a 125 miles radius, which is solid recruiting distance, JSU sits in one of the most populous area in the nation. Plenty of talent close to the school.
06-19-2022 09:38 PM
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Post: #56
RE: Why is Sam Houston State's football attendance so low?
(06-19-2022 09:38 PM)Gemofthehills Wrote:  
(06-19-2022 09:16 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(06-19-2022 08:37 AM)Hradmiralsfan Wrote:  
(06-18-2022 07:18 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(06-18-2022 07:00 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  I had a hard time seeing SHSU as a good candidate to move up to FBS and I think CUSA made a mistake by adding them. But what's done is done. Good luck to them.

SHSU and Jax St. are both awful. Both states are already saturated with FBS schools.

But then CUSA didn't have many choices.

So saturated that JSU has good attendance. JSU has just as much fan support in Alabama as Troy, USA or UAB. So the demand is there so give the fans the supply

There isn't that much supply of talent.

So, if we get the players it will be someone else's problem. If you take a 125 miles radius, which is solid recruiting distance, JSU sits in one of the most populous area in the nation. Plenty of talent close to the school.

It will drag all those schools down like it seems to have in Louisiana and Texas.
06-20-2022 08:28 AM
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DFW HOYA Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Why is Sam Houston State's football attendance so low?
(06-19-2022 09:38 PM)Gemofthehills Wrote:  If you take a 125 miles radius, which is solid recruiting distance, JSU sits in one of the most populous area in the nation. Plenty of talent close to the school.

Could you elaborate on this? There is no way a radius of JSU is more populous than at least 15 other major conference schools.
06-20-2022 09:36 AM
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Gemofthehills Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Why is Sam Houston State's football attendance so low?
(06-20-2022 09:36 AM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  
(06-19-2022 09:38 PM)Gemofthehills Wrote:  If you take a 125 miles radius, which is solid recruiting distance, JSU sits in one of the most populous area in the nation. Plenty of talent close to the school.

Could you elaborate on this? There is no way a radius of JSU is more populous than at least 15 other major conference schools.

Hope I didnt miss anyone but tried to get all of the 23-24? G5 Schools. Bolded the populations larger than Jacksonville if I counted correctly and didnt leave anyone out 10 G5 schools have a larger population, JMU is an unknown.

Some reason it would not calculate Harrisonburg, VA?

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(This post was last modified: 06-20-2022 11:24 AM by Gemofthehills.)
06-20-2022 11:20 AM
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GTFletch Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Why is Sam Houston State's football attendance so low?
(06-18-2022 01:03 PM)ken d Wrote:  The other two 2022 FCS callups, James Madison and Jacksonville State, have averaged about three times as much as Sam Houston State over the past four seasons. Despite an undergraduate enrollment of about 19K and a location about an hour from Houston, one of the most populous cities in America, the Bearkats have averaged fewer than 7K at its home football games. In a football crazy state like Texas, wouldn't one expect more? What am I missing from this story?

In 2002, the football oversight committee changed the requirements to what they are now: a 15,000-fan average, with no stadium size requirement. I dont think they ever really enforce that 15k attendance rule, especially with current G5 teams. There are some schools who tend to average a little below 15k almost every year. NCAA bylaw 20.9.9.5.1 states, “An institution that fails to satisfy any of the Football Bowl Subdivision membership requirements shall receive notice of such noncompliance. After receiving notice, any further noncompliance with the Football Bowl Subdivision requirements within a 10-year period shall cause the institution to be placed in restricted membership.” Restricted membership includes a postseason ban and could lead to reclassification to FCS.

For Example: (SEPT 30, 2008 bleacherreport)

Going back to 2005 thru 2008, some teams have already not met this standard for three straight years. According to the NCAA, these teams are supposed to pull 15,000 fans at least once every two years if they don't want to be dropped from the Football Bowl Subdivision.

Teams that have not met the standard since 2005

Utah State: 10,896, 11,360, 13,131
Eastern Michigan: 5,219, 14,734, 6,910

Teams that have not met the standard since 2006

Rice: 14,760, 13,353
Idaho: 14,543, 11,479

Teams that did not meet the standard in 2007
Ball State: 13,085
Kent State: 8,999
Buffalo: 13,658
New Mexico State: 14,412
Florida International: 7,982

Link
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/6351...ball-teams

As of July 2019 (pre COVID) according to the official NCAA stats, 14 different programs reported average attendance below 15,000. If you go by scanned tickets, that number is closer to 30.

Link
https://extrapoints.substack.com/p/the-n...equirement

So back to your question, How will Sam Houston State meet requirements? PAID Attendance! How a school gets over the mark varies. Some work with groups that distribute them to local charities. Some have agreements through sponsorship deals. But the tickets have to be paid for. They can’t be given away for free. Kent State gets to 15,000 through its marketing deal with IMG. In years when it needs to hit the mark, Kent State uses IMG money to buy discounted tickets from itself. Per NCAA rules, discount tickets are required to be at least one-third of the price of the most expensive available tickets.

Ball State has similar up-and-down numbers. In 2015, it sold 40,000 “discounted general admission” tickets in the final two home games to reach the 15,000 average, according to its audits. In 2017, it had more than 23,000 tickets credited to “foundation” in the final two games to reach the average, along with 5,500 credited to “community relations” for each game.

Eastern Michigan receives $280,000 annually from a sponsorship with Pepsi, and according to the school’s most recent audit conducted in February, “EMU has the option to direct Pepsi to expend some of these fees to purchase home football game tickets. These tickets may be distributed to community groups identified by Pepsi and EMU. Tickets issued are used to supplement the actual attendance total.” That included Pepsi “buying” at least 10,000 tickets in four of five home games in 2017. In 2016, there were at least 10,000 “groups” tickets in every game. We have to get creative with that,” EMU athletic director Scott Wetherbee said. “My goal is to continue to lessen that, obviously. We’ve got plans in place to chip away. One of my arguments to the 15,000 piece is that when that was enacted, we weren’t playing Tuesday, Wednesday, Friday in November, in snowstorms."

Link
https://theathletic.com/1070204/2019/07/...ance-rule/

Also you might be interested in an interview with Sam Houston State AD Bobby Williams by 365 Sports. He talks about facility upgrades, but doesn't even mention the attendance thing because he knows he can use PAID Attendance!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkqbgFQriT0
(This post was last modified: 06-20-2022 11:48 AM by GTFletch.)
06-20-2022 11:36 AM
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Post: #60
RE: Why is Sam Houston State's football attendance so low?
Thanks for the data dump Gem. Reiterates what I have previously said on WKU's board about us being smack dab in the middle of growing markets but only getting any credit for the Bowling Green, KY DMA which is sandwiched so hard on all sides (Nashville to the south, Louisville to the northeast, Evansville to the northwest) that it is hard to really show how much value there is to our brand locally. I won't pretend we are major players in those other markets listed, but WKU is pretty well known in them and has a lot of students and alumni hailing from those areas. I would wager that our games shown on major broadcast/linear networks are well viewed in those markets.
06-20-2022 11:43 AM
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