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Would WKU + MTSU leaving deliver a kill shot to C-USA as an FBS league?
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FMRocket Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Would WKU + MTSU leaving deliver a kill shot to C-USA as an FBS league?
(06-15-2022 12:04 PM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  
(06-15-2022 11:40 AM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  
(06-15-2022 11:38 AM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  CUSA will overtake the MAC again in a few years.

How?

Demographics and ambition. The MAC has neither. The MAC schools are reliant on talent from the South to fill key roles. Go scan their rosters, and you'll see plenty of guys from GA, AL, FL, TX. There's no MAC program that has any ambition to be anything more than a payday game for B1G teams. That has been made apparent time and again with their investment levels.

On the other hand, the CUSA teams are in solid football recruiting areas. Yes, there's limits even to the amount of talent that FL, GA, TX and the others produce. But you can find a lot more legit 2* guys with potential in those states than in the Midwestern states. Plus these CUSA programs have ambition. Liberty, of course, but these other schools moving up to D1 want to succeed. They're making investments, and they're going to expect success in football.

CUSA has a decent mix of proven, generally successful programs with new high ambition programs that the MAC doesn't. Buffalo is the only MAC program that seems to have any ambition whatsoever.

Toledo has brought in some fairly decent opponents into the Glass Bowl in the past (Miami, BYU, Missouri, Iowa State, Cincy, and several big ten schools) …
Get back to me when anyone in the future CUSA lineup can pull that type of home scheduling off !!
Plus, recently a contingent of University of Toledo boosters are in the process of setting up a very lucrative NIL deal for our student athletes …
Other schools in the MAC (Miami,Western Michigan have deep pockets) and along with Buffalo and Toledo have ambitious agendas…
06-15-2022 12:59 PM
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MUsince96 Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Would WKU + MTSU leaving deliver a kill shot to C-USA as an FBS league?
No. They'd limp along adding one or two. Telling everyone they actually improved in the process.
06-15-2022 01:00 PM
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Schadenfreude Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Would WKU + MTSU leaving deliver a kill shot to C-USA as an FBS league?
(06-15-2022 12:44 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Northern Illinois applied to be a member of the Big 12 a few years ago.

This was so long ago, it was then known as the Big 8, and I don't know there was ever a formal application.

For those who don't know: Northern Illinois did leave the MAC in the mid-1980s. Some in DeKalb were talking big about the Big 8. After a few years of spinning their wheels as an independent, the Huskies ended up in the Big West. It was pretty much a debacle.

Northern Illinois has been back since 1997, and I don't think they are going anywhere.

(06-15-2022 12:44 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  I would not count any MAC schools out for not wanted to jump to get more money. They would jump for more money if the AAC called on them which I am surprise that AAC did not went for Buffalo, Toledo or Ohio.

The American Athletic is a southern conference with an outpost in Philadelphia. I don't know whatever extra money that conference could come up with would make all the additional travel and lack of local rivalries worth it for a current member of the MAC.
(This post was last modified: 06-15-2022 01:15 PM by Schadenfreude.)
06-15-2022 01:11 PM
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BeatWestern! Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Would WKU + MTSU leaving deliver a kill shot to C-USA as an FBS league?
(06-15-2022 12:59 PM)FMRocket Wrote:  
(06-15-2022 12:04 PM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  
(06-15-2022 11:40 AM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  
(06-15-2022 11:38 AM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  CUSA will overtake the MAC again in a few years.

How?

Demographics and ambition. The MAC has neither. The MAC schools are reliant on talent from the South to fill key roles. Go scan their rosters, and you'll see plenty of guys from GA, AL, FL, TX. There's no MAC program that has any ambition to be anything more than a payday game for B1G teams. That has been made apparent time and again with their investment levels.

On the other hand, the CUSA teams are in solid football recruiting areas. Yes, there's limits even to the amount of talent that FL, GA, TX and the others produce. But you can find a lot more legit 2* guys with potential in those states than in the Midwestern states. Plus these CUSA programs have ambition. Liberty, of course, but these other schools moving up to D1 want to succeed. They're making investments, and they're going to expect success in football.

CUSA has a decent mix of proven, generally successful programs with new high ambition programs that the MAC doesn't. Buffalo is the only MAC program that seems to have any ambition whatsoever.

Toledo has brought in some fairly decent opponents into the Glass Bowl in the past (Miami, BYU, Missouri, Iowa State, Cincy, and several big ten schools) …
Get back to me when anyone in the future CUSA lineup can pull that type of home scheduling off !!
Plus, recently a contingent of University of Toledo boosters are in the process of setting up a very lucrative NIL deal for our student athletes …
Other schools in the MAC (Miami,Western Michigan have deep pockets) and along with Buffalo and Toledo have ambitious agendas…

Careful now! Overlook the Chippewas at your own peril! 03-wink
06-15-2022 01:24 PM
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Yosef181 Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Would WKU + MTSU leaving deliver a kill shot to C-USA as an FBS league?
(06-15-2022 01:11 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  
(06-15-2022 12:44 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Northern Illinois applied to be a member of the Big 12 a few years ago.

This was so long ago, it was then known as the Big 8, and I don't know there was ever a formal application.

For those who don't know: Northern Illinois did leave the MAC in the mid-1980s. Some in DeKalb were talking big about the Big 8. After a few years of spinning their wheels as an independent, the Huskies ended up in the Big West. It was pretty much a debacle.

Northern Illinois has been back since 1997, and I don't think they are going anywhere.

(06-15-2022 12:44 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  I would not count any MAC schools out for not wanted to jump to get more money. They would jump for more money if the AAC called on them which I am surprise that AAC did not went for Buffalo, Toledo or Ohio.

The American Athletic is a southern conference with an outpost in Philadelphia. I don't know whatever extra money that conference could come up with would make all the additional travel and lack of local rivalries worth it for a current member of the MAC.

It's a southern conference? Is Philly southern? Are Tampa and Miami considered a part of southern culture? Are Maryland and Kansas considered "the south"?
(This post was last modified: 06-15-2022 02:43 PM by Yosef181.)
06-15-2022 02:30 PM
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PeteTheChop Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Would WKU + MTSU leaving deliver a kill shot to C-USA as an FBS league?
(06-15-2022 02:30 PM)Yosef181 Wrote:  Are Tampa and Miami considered a part of southern culture?

Only by people who don't know any better
06-15-2022 02:36 PM
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Schadenfreude Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Would WKU + MTSU leaving deliver a kill shot to C-USA as an FBS league?
(06-15-2022 02:30 PM)Yosef181 Wrote:  It's a southern conference? Is Philly southern? Are Tampa and Miami considered a part of southern culture? Are Maryland and Kansas considered "the south"?

I said Philadelphia was an outpost. And I'm not talking about cultural geography. I'm talking about literal geography. Tampa is literally 1,100 miles south of Bowling Green, Ohio. That would be a lot of jet fuel to be burning up on volleyball games and track meets.
06-15-2022 02:51 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Would WKU + MTSU leaving deliver a kill shot to C-USA as an FBS league?
Is the present tense, probably not.

In the past tense, absolutely. Had those 2 announced a move to the MAC before C-USA announced the 4 expansion schools, the 3 leftovers would have been in a pickle. I think FIU and LA Tech would have lobbied hard to get into the SBC. I also have to wonder if at 14 members vs 3 that the 3 C-USA schools would have offered up their charter as a negotiating tactic to save themselves—the C-USA 3 get a lifeline and in exchange the SBC gets the shell of C-USA and thus the SBC East and SBC West could have both been their own conferences with a basketball autobid for both “divisions”.

Had this failed and C-USA been forced to rebuild it might have been trickier to convince FCS schools and Liberty to buy in. Provided they are able to get Liberty, NMSU, SHSU and JSU all aboard, UMass would have been a willing fb only school and one other FCS school (EKU?) would be needed. If any of those parties is gun shy regarding joining, this is a tough objective.
06-15-2022 02:56 PM
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PeteTheChop Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Would WKU + MTSU leaving deliver a kill shot to C-USA as an FBS league?
(06-15-2022 02:56 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Is the present tense, probably not.

In the past tense, absolutely. Had those 2 announced a move to the MAC before C-USA announced the 4 expansion schools, the 3 leftovers would have been in a pickle. I think FIU and LA Tech would have lobbied hard to get into the SBC.

"Hey guys!! How's everything going in Lafayette and Monroe? This is your buddies calling from Louisiana Tech wondering if we could ask a really big favor ... "

"Hello? Hello? Are y'all still on the line."
06-15-2022 03:20 PM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Would WKU + MTSU leaving deliver a kill shot to C-USA as an FBS league?
(06-15-2022 12:04 PM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  
(06-15-2022 11:40 AM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  
(06-15-2022 11:38 AM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  CUSA will overtake the MAC again in a few years.

How?

Demographics and ambition. The MAC has neither. The MAC schools are reliant on talent from the South to fill key roles. Go scan their rosters, and you'll see plenty of guys from GA, AL, FL, TX. There's no MAC program that has any ambition to be anything more than a payday game for B1G teams. That has been made apparent time and again with their investment levels.

On the other hand, the CUSA teams are in solid football recruiting areas. Yes, there's limits even to the amount of talent that FL, GA, TX and the others produce. But you can find a lot more legit 2* guys with potential in those states than in the Midwestern states. Plus these CUSA programs have ambition. Liberty, of course, but these other schools moving up to D1 want to succeed. They're making investments, and they're going to expect success in football.

CUSA has a decent mix of proven, generally successful programs with new high ambition programs that the MAC doesn't. Buffalo is the only MAC program that seems to have any ambition whatsoever.

What does being in a "solid football recruiting area" do for you if all you are getting is 2 star players from that area? You can get those anywhere, including in the MAC footprint.

But D-I conferences appear to be immortal. You can't kill them if you tried.
06-15-2022 03:29 PM
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DawgNBama Online
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Post: #31
RE: Would WKU + MTSU leaving deliver a kill shot to C-USA as an FBS league?
True, even the Big East football conference is still alive and kicking!! It's just called "the American Athletic Conference " now. The only DI conference that died since I was born was the Southwest Conference. SMU fans still mourn its passing to this day, IMO.
06-15-2022 03:51 PM
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freshtop Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Would WKU + MTSU leaving deliver a kill shot to C-USA as an FBS league?
The window of opportunity to kill C-USA has come and gone. If the SBC had taken USM, Marshall, ODU, and LaTech (vs. JMU) and the MAC had taken WKU+MTSU then UTEP and FIU would be thoroughly screwed. FIU would probably hang on as an indy long enough to backfill the AAC (when USF leaves). UTEP similarly for the MWC when Boise State leaves. C-USA goes away, the FCS callups stay FCS.

Now that things have stabilized, losing MTSU+WKU doesn't kill the conference, it just expedites more callups. There is no reason for anyone to move on hastily now because there are exit monies to collect and another round of realignment to come (in my opinion).
06-15-2022 04:30 PM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Would WKU + MTSU leaving deliver a kill shot to C-USA as an FBS league?
I feel like Louisiana Tech would take independence over joining the Sun Belt, at least as long as ULL and ULM are in the league.
06-15-2022 04:35 PM
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THUNDERStruck73 Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Would WKU + MTSU leaving deliver a kill shot to C-USA as an FBS league?
(06-15-2022 04:35 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  I feel like Louisiana Tech would take independence over joining the Sun Belt, at least as long as ULL and ULM are in the league.

I'll bet that if the sky came crashing down on them, they would try to get in to be in a very tight divisional footprint with a better TV payout. I have been lobbying for Tech to get in from the start. They are a quality program in multiple sports and would be a very smart business decision for the conference. Who cares if they're liked or not? I like the cross-divisional rivalry we were growing with them.
06-15-2022 04:52 PM
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DawgNBama Online
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Post: #35
RE: Would WKU + MTSU leaving deliver a kill shot to C-USA as an FBS league?
(06-15-2022 04:52 PM)THUNDERStruck73 Wrote:  
(06-15-2022 04:35 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  I feel like Louisiana Tech would take independence over joining the Sun Belt, at least as long as ULL and ULM are in the league.

I'll bet that if the sky came crashing down on them, they would try to get in to be in a very tight divisional footprint with a better TV payout. I have been lobbying for Tech to get in from the start. They are a quality program in multiple sports and would be a very smart business decision for the conference. Who cares if they're liked or not? I like the cross-divisional rivalry we were growing with them.

The sky did come crashing down on them, but they chose to remain with their "allies", the new Texas AAC schools, and look where it got them. LTU isn't getting into the AAC, and they know it!!
06-15-2022 04:59 PM
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THUNDERStruck73 Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Would WKU + MTSU leaving deliver a kill shot to C-USA as an FBS league?
(06-15-2022 04:59 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  
(06-15-2022 04:52 PM)THUNDERStruck73 Wrote:  
(06-15-2022 04:35 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  I feel like Louisiana Tech would take independence over joining the Sun Belt, at least as long as ULL and ULM are in the league.

I'll bet that if the sky came crashing down on them, they would try to get in to be in a very tight divisional footprint with a better TV payout. I have been lobbying for Tech to get in from the start. They are a quality program in multiple sports and would be a very smart business decision for the conference. Who cares if they're liked or not? I like the cross-divisional rivalry we were growing with them.

The sky did come crashing down on them, but they chose to remain with their "allies", the new Texas AAC schools, and look where it got them. LTU isn't getting into the AAC, and they know it!!

I know that... I was speaking of them courting the SBC.
06-15-2022 05:01 PM
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chargeradio Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Would WKU + MTSU leaving deliver a kill shot to C-USA as an FBS league?
(06-15-2022 11:55 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  Nah. Schools like EKU and SFA are already on deck. Having 4 members transitioning to D1 out of 9 would result in some difficulties regarding autobids, but I'm sure the league can get the waivers it would need. Or maybe the rules around transitioning members will be relaxed so that the issue is moot.

The FCS to FBS transition has no impact on sports other than football. FCS schools are already Division I.

Even if C-USA were noncompliant, they would have a two year grace period to cure the non-compliance. No waiver required.
06-15-2022 05:01 PM
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inutech Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Would WKU + MTSU leaving deliver a kill shot to C-USA as an FBS league?
The answer to the incessantly trolly question in the original post is no.

Were we due for another round of this? I guess it'd been a couple of weeks.

But, obviously just no. It'd suck, but we'd just add one or two more FCS teams.
06-15-2022 05:42 PM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Would WKU + MTSU leaving deliver a kill shot to C-USA as an FBS league?
(06-15-2022 05:01 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  
(06-15-2022 11:55 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  Nah. Schools like EKU and SFA are already on deck. Having 4 members transitioning to D1 out of 9 would result in some difficulties regarding autobids, but I'm sure the league can get the waivers it would need. Or maybe the rules around transitioning members will be relaxed so that the issue is moot.

The FCS to FBS transition has no impact on sports other than football. FCS schools are already Division I.

Even if C-USA were noncompliant, they would have a two year grace period to cure the non-compliance. No waiver required.

Ah yes, silly me. I've been thinking a lot about D2 call-ups lately and my mind just went there.
06-15-2022 05:54 PM
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inutech Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Would WKU + MTSU leaving deliver a kill shot to C-USA as an FBS league?
(06-15-2022 03:20 PM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  
(06-15-2022 02:56 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Is the present tense, probably not.

In the past tense, absolutely. Had those 2 announced a move to the MAC before C-USA announced the 4 expansion schools, the 3 leftovers would have been in a pickle. I think FIU and LA Tech would have lobbied hard to get into the SBC.

"Hey guys!! How's everything going in Lafayette and Monroe? This is your buddies calling from Louisiana Tech wondering if we could ask a really big favor ... "

"Hello? Hello? Are y'all still on the line."

We play them both in almost every sport every year and would be the biggest draw for either.

Supposedly they both would have supported an invitation this last go around.

But Tech's real mean and all and narratives are fun. Remember when we cost CUSA billions and burned endless bridges because mean ole Tech was solely responsible for not updating next year's football schedule promptly enough?
06-15-2022 05:58 PM
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