(06-20-2022 01:14 PM)Big Frog II Wrote:  TCU 2014

I always felt like TCU had the best team in 2010 as well.

They didn't have a Cam Newton, but had a vastly better defense than Auburn.

(06-20-2022 04:43 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  

(06-20-2022 04:09 PM)Just Joe Wrote:  

(06-20-2022 04:02 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  2014 Georgia Tech
2004 Auburn
1998 Georgia Tech
1991 Penn State
1988 Michigan
1982 Florida State
1975 Arkansas
1966 Purdue
1955 Georgia Tech
1950 Wyoming

2014? A 3 loss team that lost at home to Duke and to a 6-7 UNC team? Really?

I did not rank them in order, just listed my top 10, went by year. However in 2014, GT had three losses that year by a combined point total of 13! (Duke, UNC, FSU ACCCG). Yes, Duke was a loss, and I must point out that Duke was having their best three years in school history in 2013 thru 2015. You would have to go back to 1933 thru 1941 to see that type of success with DUKE Football. The 2014 Yellow Jackets beat SBC Champs (GA Southern), #19 Clemson, #9 Georgia, & #7 Miss State. To think they were picked to finish sixth in the division, with pundits wondering whether Paul Johnson's early magic had worn off and talk about how he should be fired. Coach Johnson & Georgia Tech proved the doubters wrong all season. Had they gotten into the 2014 CFP Playoffs, it would have be interesting to see what they could have done. So yea, I think they are one of the better teams not to win a Natty!

I get were you're coming from I guess - IMO 2010 was the most talented Alabama team Saban's had (2020 may have surpassed it) but somehow we lost 3 games even with all that talent. Ultimately, results matter and I wouldn't consider a three loss team great in any way, shape, or form.

(06-21-2022 08:32 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(06-20-2022 09:48 AM)cottager Wrote:  1983 Nebraska

Yep, Turner Gill and Mike Rozier (Heisman winner) ran the option to perfection that year. They steam rolled everyone they played all season (including #4 Penn State 44-6) [/align]only to lose to Miami in the Orange Bowl 31-30 with the classic failed two point opportunity.

We have that debate periodically on the Texas boards. What if Georgia had been called for holding on that TD/Texas hadn't put a freshman back to fumble the punt late in the 4th/... And would the Miami dynasty have happened if Osborne kicked the XP for the tie ? Season a classic example of why the old system was bad. Nebraska and Texas were #1 and #2 all season and were disappointed not to get a shot at each other and both slept walk through their bowl games, both losing by 1. That Texas defense had something like 17 players eventually get drafted.

(06-21-2022 09:04 AM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  

(06-21-2022 08:48 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-21-2022 08:20 AM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  1980 Pitt Panthers

18 starters and five reserves went on to start in the NFL. 11 players drafted that season, 4 future players in Canton, 7 first round picks off of the team. 1 mid-season loss at Tallahassee. Finished 11-1 and outscored opponents 380-130, #1 defense, held opponents to 1.5 yards per rush, #1 in NYT computer poll, finished #2 in both the AP and UPI.

https://observer-reporter.com/columns/jo...38e08.html

http://blackandgoldworld.blogspot.com/20...teams.html

IIRC, Pitt's problem that year was the schedule. They played a soft schedule that didn't give them much chance to shine. They played two good teams that year, both on the road. They lost decisively to FSU and eeked past Penn State, so those showcase games were not impressive. Maybe if ND had beaten undefeated Georgia in the Sugar Bowl, Pitt would have been voted #1, but I suspect the Irish would have jumped them despite a loss and a tie.

No question, though, from the mid-1970s to the early 1980s, the Dorsett and Marino years, Pitt was consistently in the upper echelon of the national conversation. They were an elite program then.

Pitt played then #11 FSU and #5 PSU on the road. Georgia also played only 2 ranked teams in the regular season, squeaking by then #14 South Carolina at home by 3 (who Pitt destroyed in their bowl game by 28) and winning at #20 Florida by 5. Common opponent Tennessee: Georgia won 16-15 at Neyland, Pitt won at Neyland 30-6.

Not the schedule at all. Bowl bids were given out much earlier, in November, before the USC game that ND lost when ND only had a tie at GT and before Pitt won at then #5 PSU, so those performances didn't factor at all. Georgia was undefeated and ranked #1 which is why they got into the Sugar. ND had only a tie against GT at the time and was ranked, at the time of the bowl bid, #2. So the Sugar took two undefeateds at the time of the bowl bid and ND is ND; the Pitt-PSU game had yet to be played and was a toss up between two top 5 major rivals so the Sugar wasn't looking to take a possible 2-loss team with #2, 1-tie ND available. If bowl bids had been given out after the regular season was completed, Pitt may have gotten the Sugar invite and won the title. On paper, and based on common opponents, Pitt would have beaten both Georgia and ND handily under normal circumstances.

Bobby Bowden: "I've said it many times: In all my years of coaching, that Pitt team was the best college football team I have ever seen." So the answer to this question was at least clear to Bobby Bowden.

On the other hand, Pitt didn't have Herschel Walker.

(06-21-2022 09:49 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(06-20-2022 01:14 PM)Big Frog II Wrote:  TCU 2014

I always felt like TCU had the best team in 2010 as well.

They didn't have a Cam Newton, but had a vastly better defense than Auburn.

People said Auburn's defense wasn't that good, but they held Oregon's "point a minute" offense to 19 points in the BCS title game.

IMO, it's difficult to compare a TCU defense that faced MW opponents during the season to an AU defense that played an SEC schedule.

(06-21-2022 09:51 AM)Just Joe Wrote:  

(06-20-2022 04:43 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  

(06-20-2022 04:09 PM)Just Joe Wrote:  

(06-20-2022 04:02 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  2014 Georgia Tech
2004 Auburn
1998 Georgia Tech
1991 Penn State
1988 Michigan
1982 Florida State
1975 Arkansas
1966 Purdue
1955 Georgia Tech
1950 Wyoming

2014? A 3 loss team that lost at home to Duke and to a 6-7 UNC team? Really?

I did not rank them in order, just listed my top 10, went by year. However in 2014, GT had three losses that year by a combined point total of 13! (Duke, UNC, FSU ACCCG). Yes, Duke was a loss, and I must point out that Duke was having their best three years in school history in 2013 thru 2015. You would have to go back to 1933 thru 1941 to see that type of success with DUKE Football. The 2014 Yellow Jackets beat SBC Champs (GA Southern), #19 Clemson, #9 Georgia, & #7 Miss State. To think they were picked to finish sixth in the division, with pundits wondering whether Paul Johnson's early magic had worn off and talk about how he should be fired. Coach Johnson & Georgia Tech proved the doubters wrong all season. Had they gotten into the 2014 CFP Playoffs, it would have be interesting to see what they could have done. So yea, I think they are one of the better teams not to win a Natty!

I get were you're coming from I guess - IMO 2010 was the most talented Alabama team Saban's had (2020 may have surpassed it) but somehow we lost 3 games even with all that talent. Ultimately, results matter and I wouldn't consider a three loss team great in any way, shape, or form.

Yes, the 2010 team was a formidable Alabama team that will never be regarded as as good as it was. Deservedly so, because as you say, three losses is three losses, but still.

The games they lost were to a good SC team that had the wideouts to give them problems, to the national champs by the slimmest of margins, and a squeaker to a very formidable LSU team that was itself one of the best in the country.

They just didn't put it all together until their bowl game, where they clobbered B1G co-champ Michigan State by a million points or something.

(06-21-2022 10:12 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(06-21-2022 09:04 AM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  

(06-21-2022 08:48 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-21-2022 08:20 AM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  1980 Pitt Panthers

18 starters and five reserves went on to start in the NFL. 11 players drafted that season, 4 future players in Canton, 7 first round picks off of the team. 1 mid-season loss at Tallahassee. Finished 11-1 and outscored opponents 380-130, #1 defense, held opponents to 1.5 yards per rush, #1 in NYT computer poll, finished #2 in both the AP and UPI.

https://observer-reporter.com/columns/jo...38e08.html

http://blackandgoldworld.blogspot.com/20...teams.html

IIRC, Pitt's problem that year was the schedule. They played a soft schedule that didn't give them much chance to shine. They played two good teams that year, both on the road. They lost decisively to FSU and eeked past Penn State, so those showcase games were not impressive. Maybe if ND had beaten undefeated Georgia in the Sugar Bowl, Pitt would have been voted #1, but I suspect the Irish would have jumped them despite a loss and a tie.

No question, though, from the mid-1970s to the early 1980s, the Dorsett and Marino years, Pitt was consistently in the upper echelon of the national conversation. They were an elite program then.

Pitt played then #11 FSU and #5 PSU on the road. Georgia also played only 2 ranked teams in the regular season, squeaking by then #14 South Carolina at home by 3 (who Pitt destroyed in their bowl game by 28) and winning at #20 Florida by 5. Common opponent Tennessee: Georgia won 16-15 at Neyland, Pitt won at Neyland 30-6.

Not the schedule at all. Bowl bids were given out much earlier, in November, before the USC game that ND lost when ND only had a tie at GT and before Pitt won at then #5 PSU, so those performances didn't factor at all. Georgia was undefeated and ranked #1 which is why they got into the Sugar. ND had only a tie against GT at the time and was ranked, at the time of the bowl bid, #2. So the Sugar took two undefeateds at the time of the bowl bid and ND is ND; the Pitt-PSU game had yet to be played and was a toss up between two top 5 major rivals so the Sugar wasn't looking to take a possible 2-loss team with #2, 1-tie ND available. If bowl bids had been given out after the regular season was completed, Pitt may have gotten the Sugar invite and won the title. On paper, and based on common opponents, Pitt would have beaten both Georgia and ND handily under normal circumstances.

Bobby Bowden: "I've said it many times: In all my years of coaching, that Pitt team was the best college football team I have ever seen." So the answer to this question was at least clear to Bobby Bowden.

On the other hand, Pitt didn't have Herschel Walker.

Pitt also didn't have Herschel Walker the following season when they beat #2 Georgia in the 1982 Sugar Bowl, holding Walker to 84 yards on 25 carries. That was holding him without Lombardi winner and Heisman runner-up DE Hugh Green and future pro football HOFer linebacker Rickey Jackson that were drafted the year prior along with 5 other defensive teammates that were drafted.

(06-21-2022 11:03 AM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  

(06-21-2022 10:12 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(06-21-2022 09:04 AM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  

(06-21-2022 08:48 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-21-2022 08:20 AM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  1980 Pitt Panthers

18 starters and five reserves went on to start in the NFL. 11 players drafted that season, 4 future players in Canton, 7 first round picks off of the team. 1 mid-season loss at Tallahassee. Finished 11-1 and outscored opponents 380-130, #1 defense, held opponents to 1.5 yards per rush, #1 in NYT computer poll, finished #2 in both the AP and UPI.

https://observer-reporter.com/columns/jo...38e08.html

http://blackandgoldworld.blogspot.com/20...teams.html

IIRC, Pitt's problem that year was the schedule. They played a soft schedule that didn't give them much chance to shine. They played two good teams that year, both on the road. They lost decisively to FSU and eeked past Penn State, so those showcase games were not impressive. Maybe if ND had beaten undefeated Georgia in the Sugar Bowl, Pitt would have been voted #1, but I suspect the Irish would have jumped them despite a loss and a tie.

No question, though, from the mid-1970s to the early 1980s, the Dorsett and Marino years, Pitt was consistently in the upper echelon of the national conversation. They were an elite program then.

Pitt played then #11 FSU and #5 PSU on the road. Georgia also played only 2 ranked teams in the regular season, squeaking by then #14 South Carolina at home by 3 (who Pitt destroyed in their bowl game by 28) and winning at #20 Florida by 5. Common opponent Tennessee: Georgia won 16-15 at Neyland, Pitt won at Neyland 30-6.

Not the schedule at all. Bowl bids were given out much earlier, in November, before the USC game that ND lost when ND only had a tie at GT and before Pitt won at then #5 PSU, so those performances didn't factor at all. Georgia was undefeated and ranked #1 which is why they got into the Sugar. ND had only a tie against GT at the time and was ranked, at the time of the bowl bid, #2. So the Sugar took two undefeateds at the time of the bowl bid and ND is ND; the Pitt-PSU game had yet to be played and was a toss up between two top 5 major rivals so the Sugar wasn't looking to take a possible 2-loss team with #2, 1-tie ND available. If bowl bids had been given out after the regular season was completed, Pitt may have gotten the Sugar invite and won the title. On paper, and based on common opponents, Pitt would have beaten both Georgia and ND handily under normal circumstances.

Bobby Bowden: "I've said it many times: In all my years of coaching, that Pitt team was the best college football team I have ever seen." So the answer to this question was at least clear to Bobby Bowden.

On the other hand, Pitt didn't have Herschel Walker.

Pitt also didn't have Herschel Walker the following season when they beat Georgia in the 1982 Sugar Bowl.

I remember watching that game, it was highly entertaining.

Pitt dominated statistically, but Georgia was in the game because of the Vince Dooley formula of conservative play, bend don't break defense, and opportunistic capitalization on other team's mistakes.

My recollection of those early 80s Georgia teams is they seemed to struggle more with teams from up north. They lost the national title game, also the Sugar Bowl, to Penn State the next season.

Dooley was a great coach, but he was a step behind the northern schools in adopting the modern NFL passing strategy that was soon to revolutionize college football.

(06-21-2022 10:35 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-21-2022 09:49 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(06-20-2022 01:14 PM)Big Frog II Wrote:  TCU 2014

I always felt like TCU had the best team in 2010 as well.

They didn't have a Cam Newton, but had a vastly better defense than Auburn.

People said Auburn's defense wasn't that good, but they held Oregon's "point a minute" offense to 19 points in the BCS title game.

IMO, it's difficult to compare a TCU defense that faced MW opponents during the season to an AU defense that played an SEC schedule.

Auburn did well against Oregon but had one of the worst defenses of any national champion. ULM-3, MSU-14, S. Carolina and LSU-17 were the only teams that scored less than Oregon did. They gave up 43 to Arkansas, 34 to Kentucky and were giving up the 20s and 30s to everyone else. Auburn did have one of the greatest college QBs to offset that. TCU held 8 of their 13 opponents to 10 or less and held Wisconsin in the Rose Bowl to 19, who had scored more against everyone else and scored 31 or more against all but 2 teams.

So yes, its difficult to compare, but TCU was top 10 all year and the final #2, getting a few #1 votes, despite being in the lower profile MWC.

(06-21-2022 11:15 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(06-21-2022 10:35 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-21-2022 09:49 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(06-20-2022 01:14 PM)Big Frog II Wrote:  TCU 2014

I always felt like TCU had the best team in 2010 as well.

They didn't have a Cam Newton, but had a vastly better defense than Auburn.

People said Auburn's defense wasn't that good, but they held Oregon's "point a minute" offense to 19 points in the BCS title game.

IMO, it's difficult to compare a TCU defense that faced MW opponents during the season to an AU defense that played an SEC schedule.

Auburn did well against Oregon but had one of the worst defenses of any national champion. ULM-3, MSU-14, S. Carolina and LSU-17 were the only teams that scored less than Oregon did. They gave up 43 to Arkansas, 34 to Kentucky and were giving up the 20s and 30s to everyone else. Auburn did have one of the greatest college QBs to offset that. TCU held 8 of their 13 opponents to 10 or less and held Wisconsin in the Rose Bowl to 19, who had scored more against everyone else and scored 31 or more against all but 2 teams.

So yes, its difficult to compare, but TCU was top 10 all year and the final #2, getting a few #1 votes, despite being in the lower profile MWC.

Yeah but ......

IIRC, in most of those games where Auburn gave up big points, they were way ahead. Yeah they gave up 43 to Arkansas but scored 65. They gave up 31 to Ole Miss and to Georgia, but won those games by 18 and 20 points. They gave up 26 to Arkansas State but scored over 50. IMO, judging a defense in those games makes little sense, because you are cruising. The only really bad game was giving up 34 to Kentucky. That was a 37-34 nail-biter. Even though, UK had a very good offense that season. They haven't scored as many points as they did in 2010 since, and only have scored more in one other season since 2000.

OTOH, holding SC and LSU under 20 were big deals. The SC game was the SEC title game, and LSU was a very good team, an 11-win Cotton Bowl winner. They only scored 24 vs LSU so couldn't afford to give up big points, and didn't. Even Mississippi State was a 9-game winner that scored over 50 points routing Michigan in the Gator Bowl. Auburn only scored 17 against them so needed the defense to stand up, and it did. So in big games when it mattered or when games were close, the defense showed up, shutting down the other team in the SEC title game and the BCS title game.

OTOH, TCU was shutting down mostly bad teams, a bunch of single-digit scorelines vs Air Force, BYU, Colorado State, Wyoming, etc. Not the same level of competition as 2010-era SEC IMO, so not comparable to me.