(06-14-2022 06:50 AM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  They didn't say "civilian" because they had just said "militia". They are ONE AND THE SAME THING. They had just finished fighting a war where they used MILITIA and the CONTINENTAL ARMY - two totally different entities. One is civilian and the other is government controlled.

It was a well-known fact then just like it is today that a militia is made up of civilians. Geez! At least watch the movie - The Patriot - and you can MAYBE get a grasp of what the militia was made up of, and the difference between them and the government's Continental Army.

Continental Army was just reorganized local militias regulated by the government to fight more effectively and with a leader. If you don't think the word "militia" especially with "well regulated" in front of it didn't include the Continental Army which effectively won the Revolutionary War, then you're a fool. No reason to debate any further.

(06-14-2022 07:00 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  Wrong. "Well-regulated" in the 1700s up to early 1900s had no association with the modern root "regulate" or as you with to imply, "regulation". In fact, the last words of the second amendment 'shall not be infringed', is a very clear counterargument to using the modern definition of regulate.

Doesn't matter either way. The fact "well-regulated" is in there instead of just using "militia" alone suggests it's more than just making sure they have guns and acting as terrorists. That is why Republicans and the NRA always like to hide from the phrase. The point of the amendment is for the "security of a free state". Free from something that is not free. Anyone duly elected by democratic principles is part of a free state and should not be fought against. Terrorism against the government plays no role in the 2nd amendment unless like I said before a Trump-type takes over and throws the existing government away making it effectively a foreign invader. Then we have whatever militia the 2nd amendment grants us (today it's the military, yesterday it was the local militias and the Continental Army) to depend on to fight for our "free state" again.

Quote:If only you understood what the Constitution really does...

You just can't accept the fact that "We the People" are the government. It must be something different in order for your terrorist mentality to work. That's why Trump is the wet-dream of conservatives. Sure Trump will throw away democracy so the white race can continue to dominate, but no worries, we'll keep him under control with our AR-15's. That's the mentality of the far-right.

(06-14-2022 07:08 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Since democrats seem firmly committed to becoming the party of elite experts, I want republicans to become the party of common sense. Unfortunately, they are resisting mightily, and so far successfully.

The GOD tenant of the Republican party they adopted in the late 70's and started acting on in the early 90's put pants on the fact Republican were not the party of common sense and never will be while they hold onto that tenant. It's like a cancer in the party and is the main reason why the GREED and GUN tenants were allowed to get out of control well beyond the realm of common sense to the point where our democracy is at risk.

(06-14-2022 02:15 PM)scorpius Wrote:  

(06-14-2022 07:08 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Since democrats seem firmly committed to becoming the party of elite experts, I want republicans to become the party of common sense. Unfortunately, they are resisting mightily, and so far successfully.

The GOD tenant of the Republican party they adopted in the late 70's and started acting on in the early 90's put pants on the fact Republican were not the party of common sense and never will be while they hold onto that tenant. It's like a cancer in the party and is the main reason why the GREED and GUN tenants were allowed to get out of control well beyond the realm of common sense to the point where our democracy is at risk.

Memo to self: It is not possible to engage in reasonable, sensible conversation with an idiot.

(06-14-2022 11:49 AM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  No need to be conflicted about this. There currently is no gray area. There's either the nutty side that is in power and rapidly ruining the country today, or the other side that wants to go in the opposite direction in pretty much all of the most meaningful things - i.e. immigration, oil production & energy independence, Constitutional rights, inflation, police & crime, education, national security, etc..
If you're looking for everything to be perfect, you're always going to be disappointed. It never will be.

I'm just looking for the other side, as you call them, to fight harder. So far, they don't seem inclined to do so.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend, but my enemies need better enemies.

(06-14-2022 07:08 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Geopolitical analyst George Friedman says that the USA is in the midst of a struggle between elite experts and common sense. The left favors the elite experts, and in fact supports having those experts rule every minute aspect of our lives. These experts are closely connected with academia, and thus their approach is largely theoretical. In theory, theory works well in practice; in practice, it doesn't. Therefore I am firmly on the side of common sense, which takes a more practical approach.

Since democrats seem firmly committed to becoming the party of elite experts, I want republicans to become the party of common sense. Unfortunately, they are resisting mightily, and so far successfully.

lol---I dont even think those policies even work in theory if you analyze them from more than one point of view. Those kinds of theoretical policies work if everyone thinks exactly the way an ivory tower academic with tenure thinks. Most folks dont live in that kind of insulated secure cushy world with few consequences and no real need to show results.

(06-14-2022 02:15 PM)scorpius Wrote:  

(06-14-2022 07:00 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  Wrong. "Well-regulated" in the 1700s up to early 1900s had no association with the modern root "regulate" or as you with to imply, "regulation". In fact, the last words of the second amendment 'shall not be infringed', is a very clear counterargument to using the modern definition of regulate.

Doesn't matter either way. The fact "well-regulated" is in there instead of just using "militia" alone suggests it's more than just making sure they have guns and acting as terrorists. That is why Republicans and the NRA always like to hide from the phrase. The point of the amendment is for the "security of a free state". Free from something that is not free. Anyone duly elected by democratic principles is part of a free state and should not be fought against. Terrorism against the government plays no role in the 2nd amendment unless like I said before a Trump-type takes over and throws the existing government away making it effectively a foreign invader. Then we have whatever militia the 2nd amendment grants us (today it's the military, yesterday it was the local militias and the Continental Army) to depend on to fight for our "free state" again.

WTF you mean "doesn't matter"? The definition and common use of a phrase absolutely matters.

(06-14-2022 02:15 PM)scorpius Wrote:  

(06-14-2022 07:00 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  If only you understood what the Constitution really does...

You just can't accept the fact that "We the People" are the government. It must be something different in order for your terrorist mentality to work. That's why Trump is the wet-dream of conservatives. Sure Trump will throw away democracy so the white race can continue to dominate, but no worries, we'll keep him under control with our AR-15's. That's the mentality of the far-right.

You really don't understand the Constitution at all. I bet you think it grants citizens rights and all.

(06-14-2022 02:15 PM)scorpius Wrote:  

(06-14-2022 06:50 AM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  They didn't say "civilian" because they had just said "militia". They are ONE AND THE SAME THING. They had just finished fighting a war where they used MILITIA and the CONTINENTAL ARMY - two totally different entities. One is civilian and the other is government controlled.

It was a well-known fact then just like it is today that a militia is made up of civilians. Geez! At least watch the movie - The Patriot - and you can MAYBE get a grasp of what the militia was made up of, and the difference between them and the government's Continental Army.

No reason to debate any further.

McConnell, His 10 GOP Pushovers, And Any Others Who Attack The Second Amendment Can’t Be In Leadership

Maybe you are, turtle, but the GOP constituents are not happy with it, particularly the Red Flag Laws. These will be used for payback by people angry with others, or spouses, ex-spouses. Most likely, these will be used to disarm political opponents.

McConnell is an idiot who doesn't care because he won't be standing for re-election again. He and the other Republican traitors who worked on this compromise seem to be trying to weaken the expected red wave coming this November. I wonder what they forced the other side to give up? My guess is nothing (substantial).

(06-14-2022 02:47 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(06-14-2022 02:15 PM)scorpius Wrote:  

(06-14-2022 07:08 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Since democrats seem firmly committed to becoming the party of elite experts, I want republicans to become the party of common sense. Unfortunately, they are resisting mightily, and so far successfully.

The GOD tenant of the Republican party they adopted in the late 70's and started acting on in the early 90's put pants on the fact Republican were not the party of common sense and never will be while they hold onto that tenant. It's like a cancer in the party and is the main reason why the GREED and GUN tenants were allowed to get out of control well beyond the realm of common sense to the point where our democracy is at risk.

Memo to self: It is not possible to engage in reasonable, sensible conversation with an idiot.

An idiot is one who doesn't realize the party that intentionally goes after those who are easily brainwashed is NOT the party to vote for. Then you must ask yourself if you fall into that category yourself.

(06-14-2022 06:17 PM)scorpius Wrote:  An idiot is one who doesn't realize the party that intentionally goes after those who are easily brainwashed is NOT the party to vote for. Then you must ask yourself if you fall into that category yourself.

We have one political party (Dems) in this country whose leading figures believe and often say;

- There are numerous genders
- You can switch genders as you wish and surgically alter your body
- Sexual deviance and 'alternative lifestyles' should be paraded in front of, and glorified to LITTLE kids
- January 6th was an attempt to overthrow the government
- Defunding the police is a good idea and won't impact safety of citizens
- YOU don't need a gun to defend yourself (but WE, the leaders need
armed security details)
- We are not coming to disarm you of your firearms
- Knowing and controlling who comes across our border is not important
- Criminals who are arrested should not have to post bail to get out
- Criminals deserve second, third and fourth chances and on and on
- Few people should ever be locked up - for anything
- White supremacists are the biggest problem facing America
- Past elections were stolen from them but 2020 was the most secure
election in history!
- Our bodies, our choice regarding abortion but definitely NOT when
talking about vaccinations as we insist you are forced to get one
- Our protests are 'mostly peaceful' but the Jan. 6 protesters should be
locked up and the keys thrown away.

But of course, it is the right and the GOP who are easily brainwashed. The left owns all the cultural institutions with which to mold the minds of the next generation and uses them to brainwash children.

So, according to our resident genius, you should definitely NOT vote for the pedo party, the democrats. On this, I agree.

(06-14-2022 06:49 PM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  

(06-14-2022 06:17 PM)scorpius Wrote:  An idiot is one who doesn't realize the party that intentionally goes after those who are easily brainwashed is NOT the party to vote for. Then you must ask yourself if you fall into that category yourself.

We have one political party (Dems) in this country whose leading figures believe and often say;

- There are numerous genders
- You can switch genders as you wish and surgically alter your body
- Sexual deviance and 'alternative lifestyles' should be paraded in front of, and glorified to LITTLE kids
- January 6th was an attempt to overthrow the government
- Defunding the police is a good idea and won't impact safety of citizens
- YOU don't need a gun to defend yourself (but WE, the leaders need
armed security details)
- We are not coming to disarm you of your firearms
- Knowing and controlling who comes across our border is not important
- Criminals who are arrested should not have to post bail to get out
- Criminals deserve second, third and fourth chances and on and on
- Few people should ever be locked up - for anything
- White supremacists are the biggest problem facing America
- Past elections were stolen from them but 2020 was the most secure
election in history!
- Our bodies, our choice regarding abortion but definitely NOT when
talking about vaccinations as we insist you are forced to get one
- Our protests are 'mostly peaceful' but the Jan. 6 protesters should be
locked up and the keys thrown away.

But of course, it is the right and the GOP who are easily brainwashed. The left owns all the cultural institutions with which to mold the minds of the next generation and uses them to brainwash children.

So, according to our resident genius, you should definitely NOT vote for the pedo party, the democrats. On this, I agree.

The fact you hide behind the word "pedo" shows where the problem is when it comes to brainwashing. If that's not enough, just tune into the various opinion news channels with an open mind for a minute. Watch for the classic clues of propaganda and brainwashing. It's not hard to see. At least I can admit that the extremes of both sides are really bad. It's the disgusting need on the right to actively pursue the most vulnerable in society to brainwashing and then actively take advantage of them to spread the most extreme garbage. It's downright dangerous. Just how you spout out the word "pedo" like a parrot is a classic example. What are we? 12? I mean seriously. It feels like I'm talking to someone who is as brainwashed as a kid who believes in Santa. And yes, one who still believes in Santa at age 12, no less.

(06-15-2022 09:23 PM)scorpius Wrote:  

(06-14-2022 06:49 PM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  

(06-14-2022 06:17 PM)scorpius Wrote:  An idiot is one who doesn't realize the party that intentionally goes after those who are easily brainwashed is NOT the party to vote for. Then you must ask yourself if you fall into that category yourself.

We have one political party (Dems) in this country whose leading figures believe and often say;

- There are numerous genders
- You can switch genders as you wish and surgically alter your body
- Sexual deviance and 'alternative lifestyles' should be paraded in front of, and glorified to LITTLE kids
- January 6th was an attempt to overthrow the government
- Defunding the police is a good idea and won't impact safety of citizens
- YOU don't need a gun to defend yourself (but WE, the leaders need
armed security details)
- We are not coming to disarm you of your firearms
- Knowing and controlling who comes across our border is not important
- Criminals who are arrested should not have to post bail to get out
- Criminals deserve second, third and fourth chances and on and on
- Few people should ever be locked up - for anything
- White supremacists are the biggest problem facing America
- Past elections were stolen from them but 2020 was the most secure
election in history!
- Our bodies, our choice regarding abortion but definitely NOT when
talking about vaccinations as we insist you are forced to get one
- Our protests are 'mostly peaceful' but the Jan. 6 protesters should be
locked up and the keys thrown away.

But of course, it is the right and the GOP who are easily brainwashed. The left owns all the cultural institutions with which to mold the minds of the next generation and uses them to brainwash children.

So, according to our resident genius, you should definitely NOT vote for the pedo party, the democrats. On this, I agree.

The fact you hide behind the word "pedo" shows where the problem is when it comes to brainwashing. If that's not enough, just tune into the various opinion news channels with an open mind for a minute. Watch for the classic clues of propaganda and brainwashing. It's not hard to see. At least I can admit that the extremes of both sides are really bad. It's the disgusting need on the right to actively pursue the most venerable in society to brainwashing and then actively take advantage of them to spread the most extreme garbage. It's downright dangerous. Just how you spout out the word "pedo" like a parrot is a classic example. What are we? 12? I mean seriously. It feels like I'm talking to someone who is as brainwashed as a kid who believes in Santa. And yes, one who still believes in Santa at age 12, no less.

Yes, I believe you are 12.

Scorp, what if I remove the word pedo? You got hung up on it so you could dodge the main point of my post. Address the list I posted and tell me how I am wrong.

Did you even read my list of just some of the insanity that dem leaders spout and/or believe? These are the brainwashed fools and so many of you just lap it up. No critical thinking needed.

Your party is insane. The dems have lost their minds. The list is where their priorities lie, not in attempting to fix inflation, high gas prices, supply chain problems and looming food insecurity.

You decided to get hung up on ONE word instead of addressing the list of insane stuff your party parrots.

How about for once, address the substance of what I listed? Try it, it is not hard and doesn't hurt.

Republicans play the sucker all the time. I'm getting tired of waiting on them to stand up and be counted.

I also think it would help their election chances immensely if they could do like Newt in 1994 and put together a platform of conservative ideas that were winners with voters, based upon polling and focus groups. I think they would win big, like 1994, but would then be faced with the same problem. They would have to do what they said they were going to do, and they are not good at that.

Republicans never do what they say they are going to do, which is a problem. Democrats always do what they say they are going to do, which is a bigger problem.

(06-15-2022 09:23 PM)scorpius Wrote:  The fact you hide behind the word "pedo" shows where the problem is when it comes to brainwashing. If that's not enough, just tune into the various opinion news channels with an open mind for a minute. Watch for the classic clues of propaganda and brainwashing. It's not hard to see. At least I can admit that the extremes of both sides are really bad. It's the disgusting need on the right to actively pursue the most venerable in society to brainwashing and then actively take advantage of them to spread the most extreme garbage. It's downright dangerous. Just how you spout out the word "pedo" like a parrot is a classic example. What are we? 12? I mean seriously. It feels like I'm talking to someone who is as brainwashed as a kid who believes in Santa. And yes, one who still believes in Santa at age 12, no less.

Yep. Finally convinced you are nothing more than a troll.

(06-12-2022 09:31 PM)scorpius Wrote:  The 2nd Amendment reads:
“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”

There is a big difference between the, "well regulated Militia," part and the, "shall not be infringed," part.

By any rules of English grammar, composition, and syntax, in effect today or in the 1700s or at any time in between, the, "shall not be infringed," wording applies to the, "right of the people to keep and bear Arms," and the, "well regulated Militia," wording does not.

That is all.

(06-16-2022 12:53 AM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  Scorp, what if I remove the word pedo? You got hung up on it so you could dodge the main point of my post. Address the list I posted and tell me how I am wrong.

Did you even read my list of just some of the insanity that dem leaders spout and/or believe? These are the brainwashed fools and so many of you just lap it up. No critical thinking needed.

Your party is insane. The dems have lost their minds. The list is where their priorities lie, not in attempting to fix inflation, high gas prices, supply chain problems and looming food insecurity.

You decided to get hung up on ONE word instead of addressing the list of insane stuff your party parrots.

How about for once, address the substance of what I listed? Try it, it is not hard and doesn't hurt.

I told you in my original reply that the extremes of both parties are nuts. It's the fact you do not realize this is the problem. Then I pointed out why I lean Democrat. It's certainly not because of the extreme left which I agree with you is nuts, just like the extreme right. It's because I can see with my very eyes the active effort even those who are moderately conservative are using propaganda and brainwashing to control the population. That is their MAIN tool to broaden their tent. Reason and science takes a backseat to conspiracy theory in today's Republican party.

Not saying it doesn't go on with the left as well, but it is MOST CERTAINLY not their main tool. When I hear the message from the left it's backed up more often than not by reasonable deductions based many times in science and hard evidence. Conspiracy theory takes a backseat to science. I respect that. Whereas on the right they seem to fall back to faith, conspiracy theory, tradition, even when there is strong evidence against it.

Why do you think they took the evangelicals under their tent? The GOD tenant? Or the white supremacist anti-immigrant 2nd amendment people? The GUN tenant? These people are ALREADY the most brainwashed in society.. so they are the most vulnerable to propaganda. It's how we ended up with Trump literally being the first President in history to attempt a coup in this country. THAT is what I saw coming 3 decades ago when I started voting Democrat after being a Reagan supporter.

In fact, I STILL believe we are in grave danger of losing our democracy because of this cancer in the Republican party. It used to not be that way. What Nixon supported are the values I'd love to support in a Republican party. I'd vote for that everyday. They even proved that when they had a crook in the White House, they could impeach him! And they proved multiple times that when social issues shift, they will shift with them. The old Republican party, pre-Reagan, the true party of Lincoln was the ideal political party. Reagon was great because these GOD and GUN cancers had not gained much traction yet, but still he played a large part in initiating them into the party.

Quote:Your party is insane. The dems have lost their minds. The list is where their priorities lie, not in attempting to fix inflation, high gas prices, supply chain problems and looming food insecurity.

You do realize the entire developed world regardless of who is in power (liberals, conservatives, socialists, totalitarians, etc) is having similiar inflation, high gas price, supply chain and food insecurity problems like we are. So trying to pin it on one party and worse yet, accusing them of not trying to fix the problem just shows AGAIN (and without using the word pedo) how you are subjected to brainwashing.

(06-16-2022 07:37 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Republicans play the sucker all the time. I'm getting tired of waiting on them to stand up and be counted.

I also think it would help their election chances immensely if they could do like Newt in 1994 and put together a platform of conservative ideas that were winners with voters, based upon polling and focus groups. I think they would win big, like 1994, but would then be faced with the same problem. They would have to do what they said they were going to do, and they are not good at that.

Republicans never do what they say they are going to do, which is a problem. Democrats always do what they say they are going to do, which is a bigger problem.

Republicans have stated what they want to do. They want to define a person from conception, sell as many guns to as many people as possible, make it as hard to vote as possible, discriminate against people (based on religion, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity, race, etc.), lower taxes on the rich, get rid of entitlement programs from the poor, and ultimately raise taxes on the middle class to balance the budget.

And yes they very much make an effort on accomplishing these tasks every time they have power. The only exception is maybe raising taxes on the middle class while employing "starve the beast" strategy, but that has played it's course with many Republicans now fully and openly in support of increased taxes on the middle class to balance the budget. That has been the whole point of "starve the beast" to begin with. So there is no choice but to raise taxes on the middle class and get rid of entitlements for the poor. The GREED of the party controls the whole apparatus.

(06-16-2022 11:09 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(06-12-2022 09:31 PM)scorpius Wrote:  The 2nd Amendment reads:
“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”

There is a big difference between the, "well regulated Militia," part and the, "shall not be infringed," part.

By any rules of English grammar, composition, and syntax, in effect today or in the 1700s or at any time in between, the, "shall not be infringed," wording applies to the, "right of the people to keep and bear Arms," and the, "well regulated Militia," wording does not.

That is all.

It's one amendment. Not only that, it's one sentence. If both parts of it were such a "big" difference as you put it, they'd make two amendments out of it, or at the VERY LEAST make it two sentences. This is what I mean about common sense taking a backseat to plain stupidity.

(06-17-2022 12:01 AM)scorpius Wrote:  

(06-16-2022 07:37 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Republicans play the sucker all the time. I'm getting tired of waiting on them to stand up and be counted.

I also think it would help their election chances immensely if they could do like Newt in 1994 and put together a platform of conservative ideas that were winners with voters, based upon polling and focus groups. I think they would win big, like 1994, but would then be faced with the same problem. They would have to do what they said they were going to do, and they are not good at that.

Republicans never do what they say they are going to do, which is a problem. Democrats always do what they say they are going to do, which is a bigger problem.

Republicans have stated what they want to do. They want to define a person from conception, sell as many guns to as many people as possible, make it as hard to vote as possible, discriminate against people (based on religion, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity, race, etc.), lower taxes on the rich, get rid of entitlement programs from the poor, and ultimately raise taxes on the middle class to balance the budget.

And yes they very much make an effort on accomplishing these tasks every time they have power. The only exception is maybe raising taxes on the middle class while employing "starve the beast" strategy, but that has played it's course with many Republicans now fully and openly in support of increased taxes on the middle class to balance the budget. That has been the whole point of "starve the beast" to begin with. So there is no choice but to raise taxes on the middle class and get rid of entitlements for the poor. The GREED of the party controls the whole apparatus.

(06-16-2022 11:09 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(06-12-2022 09:31 PM)scorpius Wrote:  The 2nd Amendment reads:
“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”

There is a big difference between the, "well regulated Militia," part and the, "shall not be infringed," part.

By any rules of English grammar, composition, and syntax, in effect today or in the 1700s or at any time in between, the, "shall not be infringed," wording applies to the, "right of the people to keep and bear Arms," and the, "well regulated Militia," wording does not.

That is all.

It's one amendment. Not only that, it's one sentence. If both parts of it were such a "big" difference as you put it, they'd make two amendments out of it, or at the VERY LEAST make it two sentences. This is what I mean about common sense taking a backseat to plain stupidity.

You definitely don't let common sense anywhere near your stupidity.

(06-17-2022 05:30 AM)appst89 Wrote:  

(06-17-2022 12:01 AM)scorpius Wrote:  It's one amendment. Not only that, it's one sentence. If both parts of it were such a "big" difference as you put it, they'd make two amendments out of it, or at the VERY LEAST make it two sentences. This is what I mean about common sense taking a backseat to plain stupidity.

You definitely don't let common sense anywhere near your stupidity.

Common sense says the 2nd amendment guarantees our right to a national defense. And the 14th amendment is what determines the extent we are allowed to bear arms personally.