(06-13-2022 12:13 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  

(06-04-2022 10:34 AM)XLance Wrote:  
It has become obvious that in order to have the symmetry necessary to have any kind of workable playoff structure (4, 6 12, or 16) all conferences need to adopt the same structure.

Since the NB12 plans to elevate 4 schools and adding Notre Dame on a full time basis takes us beyond 4 x 16, the next logical step would be 4 x 18. Unfortunately 5 conferences can't survive and have any type of logical division to advance the playoffs in an organized fashion.

This may not be perfect, but it should illustrate how conferences could be organized to allow for a rational playoff system so that every school could be involved and therefore profit from the system.

ACC
adds: UCF, West Virginia, Tulane, Houston

B1G
adds: Notre Dame, Cincinnati, Iowa State, Kansas

SEC
adds: USF, Baylor

PAC
adds: San Diego State, BYU, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech, TCU

I still like the traditional division approach, but with 18 teams those divisions could be either 2 x 9 or 3 x 6.

IMO, the addition of UT and OU has completely changed the SEC’s viewpoint on conferences. If you have the most valuable brands and a long record of winning the most national championships, seeking “symmetry” is analogous to promoting welfare, redistribution and Socialism. Conference symmetry would help if conferences had relatively comparable brands and opportunities. Symmetry could have worked if: a) UT, OU, TTU and KU had joined the PAC, and b) ND joined the ACC.

Standardizing conference structures to 4x18 is now futile. Unfortunately, all four conferences would be weakened by expanding with the proposed members. The SEC is fully aligned with ND…they don’t value conference champions. The Alliance (B1G, ACC and PAC) still promotes the importance of conference champions, but they’re losing the PR war about CFP expansion.

You do have to wonder if the predatory attitude the SEC has been displaying is fueled by the Post-Skipper leadership at ESPN or from the SEC itself.
Either way it doesn't bode very well for the overall health of collegiate athletics.

(06-13-2022 09:05 AM)b2b Wrote:  

(06-04-2022 07:43 PM)Porcine Wrote:  

(06-04-2022 06:57 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(06-04-2022 04:54 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(06-04-2022 11:19 AM)schmolik Wrote:  Tulane over Temple? Now that's just anti-North.

Nope......Southern Ivy.

That's the problem with the ACC right there!!!! No, picking Temple is not the fix. It is the way the ACC's profile is. What the heck does the ACC represent??

I can tell you what the SEC represents: every major university in the southeast, excluding those in the ACC.

The SunBelt represents the second best state universities in the southeast, IMO.

The ACC, to me is one big giant blob. Part wants to be Southern Ivy, part wants to be like the SEC, and rest are northern schools!!

All of those East Indys should have carved out a whole new conference. No old school clique telling all the others that are used to do things their way what to do.

It was tried. Louisville and FSU killed it... allegedly. UL didn't want to share basketball. FSU wanted an unequal cut of football.

I guess some will never figure out that "trying to keep all the money" doesn't work.

(06-13-2022 03:42 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(06-13-2022 12:13 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  

(06-04-2022 10:34 AM)XLance Wrote:  
It has become obvious that in order to have the symmetry necessary to have any kind of workable playoff structure (4, 6 12, or 16) all conferences need to adopt the same structure.

Since the NB12 plans to elevate 4 schools and adding Notre Dame on a full time basis takes us beyond 4 x 16, the next logical step would be 4 x 18. Unfortunately 5 conferences can't survive and have any type of logical division to advance the playoffs in an organized fashion.

This may not be perfect, but it should illustrate how conferences could be organized to allow for a rational playoff system so that every school could be involved and therefore profit from the system.

ACC
adds: UCF, West Virginia, Tulane, Houston

B1G
adds: Notre Dame, Cincinnati, Iowa State, Kansas

SEC
adds: USF, Baylor

PAC
adds: San Diego State, BYU, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech, TCU

I still like the traditional division approach, but with 18 teams those divisions could be either 2 x 9 or 3 x 6.

IMO, the addition of UT and OU has completely changed the SEC’s viewpoint on conferences. If you have the most valuable brands and a long record of winning the most national championships, seeking “symmetry” is analogous to promoting welfare, redistribution and Socialism. Conference symmetry would help if conferences had relatively comparable brands and opportunities. Symmetry could have worked if: a) UT, OU, TTU and KU had joined the PAC, and b) ND joined the ACC.

Standardizing conference structures to 4x18 is now futile. Unfortunately, all four conferences would be weakened by expanding with the proposed members. The SEC is fully aligned with ND…they don’t value conference champions. The Alliance (B1G, ACC and PAC) still promotes the importance of conference champions, but they’re losing the PR war about CFP expansion.

You do have to wonder if the predatory attitude the SEC has been displaying is fueled by the Post-Skipper leadership at ESPN or from the SEC itself.
Either way it doesn't bode very well for the overall health of collegiate athletics.

SEC is also under relatively new leadership; Sankey hasn't been in charge all that long.

That said, I blame realignment on ESPN and Fox.

(06-13-2022 04:52 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(06-13-2022 03:42 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(06-13-2022 12:13 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  

(06-04-2022 10:34 AM)XLance Wrote:  
It has become obvious that in order to have the symmetry necessary to have any kind of workable playoff structure (4, 6 12, or 16) all conferences need to adopt the same structure.

Since the NB12 plans to elevate 4 schools and adding Notre Dame on a full time basis takes us beyond 4 x 16, the next logical step would be 4 x 18. Unfortunately 5 conferences can't survive and have any type of logical division to advance the playoffs in an organized fashion.

This may not be perfect, but it should illustrate how conferences could be organized to allow for a rational playoff system so that every school could be involved and therefore profit from the system.

ACC
adds: UCF, West Virginia, Tulane, Houston

B1G
adds: Notre Dame, Cincinnati, Iowa State, Kansas

SEC
adds: USF, Baylor

PAC
adds: San Diego State, BYU, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech, TCU

I still like the traditional division approach, but with 18 teams those divisions could be either 2 x 9 or 3 x 6.

IMO, the addition of UT and OU has completely changed the SEC’s viewpoint on conferences. If you have the most valuable brands and a long record of winning the most national championships, seeking “symmetry” is analogous to promoting welfare, redistribution and Socialism. Conference symmetry would help if conferences had relatively comparable brands and opportunities. Symmetry could have worked if: a) UT, OU, TTU and KU had joined the PAC, and b) ND joined the ACC.

Standardizing conference structures to 4x18 is now futile. Unfortunately, all four conferences would be weakened by expanding with the proposed members. The SEC is fully aligned with ND…they don’t value conference champions. The Alliance (B1G, ACC and PAC) still promotes the importance of conference champions, but they’re losing the PR war about CFP expansion.

You do have to wonder if the predatory attitude the SEC has been displaying is fueled by the Post-Skipper leadership at ESPN or from the SEC itself.
Either way it doesn't bode very well for the overall health of collegiate athletics.

SEC is also under relatively new leadership; Sankey hasn't been in charge all that long.

That said, I blame realignment on ESPN and Fox.

And the last I checked, it isn't the SEC that has hostages.

(06-13-2022 05:34 PM)Porcine Wrote:  

(06-13-2022 04:52 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(06-13-2022 03:42 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(06-13-2022 12:13 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  

(06-04-2022 10:34 AM)XLance Wrote:  
It has become obvious that in order to have the symmetry necessary to have any kind of workable playoff structure (4, 6 12, or 16) all conferences need to adopt the same structure.

Since the NB12 plans to elevate 4 schools and adding Notre Dame on a full time basis takes us beyond 4 x 16, the next logical step would be 4 x 18. Unfortunately 5 conferences can't survive and have any type of logical division to advance the playoffs in an organized fashion.

This may not be perfect, but it should illustrate how conferences could be organized to allow for a rational playoff system so that every school could be involved and therefore profit from the system.

ACC
adds: UCF, West Virginia, Tulane, Houston

B1G
adds: Notre Dame, Cincinnati, Iowa State, Kansas

SEC
adds: USF, Baylor

PAC
adds: San Diego State, BYU, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech, TCU

I still like the traditional division approach, but with 18 teams those divisions could be either 2 x 9 or 3 x 6.

IMO, the addition of UT and OU has completely changed the SEC’s viewpoint on conferences. If you have the most valuable brands and a long record of winning the most national championships, seeking “symmetry” is analogous to promoting welfare, redistribution and Socialism. Conference symmetry would help if conferences had relatively comparable brands and opportunities. Symmetry could have worked if: a) UT, OU, TTU and KU had joined the PAC, and b) ND joined the ACC.

Standardizing conference structures to 4x18 is now futile. Unfortunately, all four conferences would be weakened by expanding with the proposed members. The SEC is fully aligned with ND…they don’t value conference champions. The Alliance (B1G, ACC and PAC) still promotes the importance of conference champions, but they’re losing the PR war about CFP expansion.

You do have to wonder if the predatory attitude the SEC has been displaying is fueled by the Post-Skipper leadership at ESPN or from the SEC itself.
Either way it doesn't bode very well for the overall health of collegiate athletics.

SEC is also under relatively new leadership; Sankey hasn't been in charge all that long.

That said, I blame realignment on ESPN and Fox.

And the last I checked, it isn't the SEC that has hostages.

Correct. That dubious honor goes to the ACC, IMO.

#FreeClemsonandFSU

(06-13-2022 04:52 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(06-13-2022 03:42 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(06-13-2022 12:13 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  

(06-04-2022 10:34 AM)XLance Wrote:  
It has become obvious that in order to have the symmetry necessary to have any kind of workable playoff structure (4, 6 12, or 16) all conferences need to adopt the same structure.

Since the NB12 plans to elevate 4 schools and adding Notre Dame on a full time basis takes us beyond 4 x 16, the next logical step would be 4 x 18. Unfortunately 5 conferences can't survive and have any type of logical division to advance the playoffs in an organized fashion.

This may not be perfect, but it should illustrate how conferences could be organized to allow for a rational playoff system so that every school could be involved and therefore profit from the system.

ACC
adds: UCF, West Virginia, Tulane, Houston

B1G
adds: Notre Dame, Cincinnati, Iowa State, Kansas

SEC
adds: USF, Baylor

PAC
adds: San Diego State, BYU, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech, TCU

I still like the traditional division approach, but with 18 teams those divisions could be either 2 x 9 or 3 x 6.

IMO, the addition of UT and OU has completely changed the SEC’s viewpoint on conferences. If you have the most valuable brands and a long record of winning the most national championships, seeking “symmetry” is analogous to promoting welfare, redistribution and Socialism. Conference symmetry would help if conferences had relatively comparable brands and opportunities. Symmetry could have worked if: a) UT, OU, TTU and KU had joined the PAC, and b) ND joined the ACC.

Standardizing conference structures to 4x18 is now futile. Unfortunately, all four conferences would be weakened by expanding with the proposed members. The SEC is fully aligned with ND…they don’t value conference champions. The Alliance (B1G, ACC and PAC) still promotes the importance of conference champions, but they’re losing the PR war about CFP expansion.

You do have to wonder if the predatory attitude the SEC has been displaying is fueled by the Post-Skipper leadership at ESPN or from the SEC itself.
Either way it doesn't bode very well for the overall health of collegiate athletics.

SEC is also under relatively new leadership; Sankey hasn't been in charge all that long.

That said, I blame realignment on ESPN and Fox.

It is, has been, and will be, corporate network driven. Anyone who has witnessed a buyout or takeover can see all of the signs of it. Only the most delusional still want to blame conferences and schools.

Prior to 2010 most conference revenue was plus or minus 3 million of each other at the upper echelon. Then came the if you expand your footprint (network word) we will increase your pay. Then came we will pay you more if you add content and inventory (network and business words), and now it is all about ratings for ad leverage and, wait for it, exposure (more network lingo). Verbiage always tells you who is in control. Commissioners talk about schools and their accomplishments and championships, at least until 2010, and now they talk about.....media distributions.

So who is in control? ESPN was quietly involved in expansion in expansion post Penn State because Delany was a not their fan. Who did the SEC go to for a valuation on FSU in '90? ESPN. Markets were the rage then and ESPN knew they could double dip Florida if FSU was in the ACC and that such a move would keep the SEC from getting too strong for them at the time. So how did the ACC know how much the SEC would offer and when they would offer it? Yep, ESPN. Their goal then was domination of the strongest college football markets and that's where we have headed since.

Why FOX? Two media companies can avoid anti-trust suits if they secretly work together. It's amazing how incestuous the two are! But what do the gullible say and do? They tell us who will never go here or there, and they tout academics as if it still matters in a post amateur world, and they blame schools and conferences instead of corporate overlords.

And yet during the CFP we've had a committee who selected on most years not necessarily the 4 best, but the 4 best who could draw a larger market share. Tinfoil hat? Just follow the money!

These threads on if so and so had gone to conference x or y are hilarious. Schools made the most profitable moves. Being pissed about officiating, bad blood, etc, is just fan fiction being jazzed by leadership to fan the flames of rivalry to hype the games when they are played. And yet we have flame wars over this nonsense.

What do I think happened with the 12 team playoff? Who leaked Texas and OU to the SEC? Likely our media partners since it (1) drives interest, (2) creates playoff expansion talk, (3) happens when conference consolidation is triggered so it covers the focus on a. pay differential, b. which two conferences emerge as P+ and which three as P-, c. it happens as NIL emerges with pay for play looming.

If we wind up with a P2 and a solid P- catch all then the playoffs become self contained and FOX and ESPN make a killing. Panic to jump into one of the 2 leaders becomes the norm, fans go along as long as they aren't left out, and with low overhead for the two NETS with schools covering the payouts, they have a mini NFL all to themselves.

It has all been corporate, and the lure was financial disparity which was made an issue in a for pay arms race started by network money.

(06-13-2022 05:58 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(06-13-2022 04:52 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(06-13-2022 03:42 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(06-13-2022 12:13 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  

(06-04-2022 10:34 AM)XLance Wrote:  
It has become obvious that in order to have the symmetry necessary to have any kind of workable playoff structure (4, 6 12, or 16) all conferences need to adopt the same structure.

Since the NB12 plans to elevate 4 schools and adding Notre Dame on a full time basis takes us beyond 4 x 16, the next logical step would be 4 x 18. Unfortunately 5 conferences can't survive and have any type of logical division to advance the playoffs in an organized fashion.

This may not be perfect, but it should illustrate how conferences could be organized to allow for a rational playoff system so that every school could be involved and therefore profit from the system.

ACC
adds: UCF, West Virginia, Tulane, Houston

B1G
adds: Notre Dame, Cincinnati, Iowa State, Kansas

SEC
adds: USF, Baylor

PAC
adds: San Diego State, BYU, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech, TCU

I still like the traditional division approach, but with 18 teams those divisions could be either 2 x 9 or 3 x 6.

IMO, the addition of UT and OU has completely changed the SEC’s viewpoint on conferences. If you have the most valuable brands and a long record of winning the most national championships, seeking “symmetry” is analogous to promoting welfare, redistribution and Socialism. Conference symmetry would help if conferences had relatively comparable brands and opportunities. Symmetry could have worked if: a) UT, OU, TTU and KU had joined the PAC, and b) ND joined the ACC.

Standardizing conference structures to 4x18 is now futile. Unfortunately, all four conferences would be weakened by expanding with the proposed members. The SEC is fully aligned with ND…they don’t value conference champions. The Alliance (B1G, ACC and PAC) still promotes the importance of conference champions, but they’re losing the PR war about CFP expansion.

You do have to wonder if the predatory attitude the SEC has been displaying is fueled by the Post-Skipper leadership at ESPN or from the SEC itself.
Either way it doesn't bode very well for the overall health of collegiate athletics.

SEC is also under relatively new leadership; Sankey hasn't been in charge all that long.

That said, I blame realignment on ESPN and Fox.

It is, has been, and will be, corporate network driven. Anyone who has witnessed a buyout or takeover can see all of the signs of it. Only the most delusional still want to blame conferences and schools.

Prior to 2010 most conference revenue was plus or minus 3 million of each other at the upper echelon. Then came the if you expand your footprint (network word) we will increase your pay. Then came we will pay you more if you add content and inventory (network and business words), and now it is all about ratings for ad leverage and, wait for it, exposure (more network lingo). Verbiage always tells you who is in control. Commissioners talk about schools and their accomplishments and championships, at least until 2010, and now they talk about.....media distributions.

So who is in control? ESPN was quietly involved in expansion in expansion post Penn State because Delany was a not their fan. Who did the SEC go to for a valuation on FSU in '90? ESPN. Markets were the rage then and ESPN knew they could double dip Florida if FSU was in the ACC and that such a move would keep the SEC from getting too strong for them at the time. So how did the ACC know how much the SEC would offer and when they would offer it? Yep, ESPN. Their goal then was domination of the strongest college football markets and that's where we have headed since.

Why FOX? Two media companies can avoid anti-trust suits if they secretly work together. It's amazing how incestuous the two are! But what do the gullible say and do? They tell us who will never go here or there, and they tout academics as if it still matters in a post amateur world, and they blame schools and conferences instead of corporate overlords.

And yet during the CFP we've had a committee who selected on most years not necessarily the 4 best, but the 4 best who could draw a larger market share. Tinfoil hat? Just follow the money!

These threads on if so and so had gone to conference x or y are hilarious. Schools made the most profitable moves. Being pissed about officiating, bad blood, etc, is just fan fiction being jazzed by leadership to fan the flames of rivalry to hype the games when they are played. And yet we have flame wars over this nonsense.

What do I think happened with the 12 team playoff? Who leaked Texas and OU to the SEC? Likely our media partners since it (1) drives interest, (2) creates playoff expansion talk, (3) happens when conference consolidation is triggered so it covers the focus on a. pay differential, b. which two conferences emerge as P+ and which three as P-, c. it happens as NIL emerges with pay for play looming.

If we wind up with a P2 and a solid P- catch all then the playoffs become self contained and FOX and ESPN make a killing. Panic to jump into one of the 2 leaders becomes the norm, fans go along as long as they aren't left out, and with low overhead for the two NETS with schools covering the payouts, they have a mini NFL all to themselves.

It has all been corporate, and the lure was financial disparity which was made an issue in a for pay arms race started by network money.

Es verdad.

(06-13-2022 05:58 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(06-13-2022 04:52 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(06-13-2022 03:42 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(06-13-2022 12:13 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  

(06-04-2022 10:34 AM)XLance Wrote:  
It has become obvious that in order to have the symmetry necessary to have any kind of workable playoff structure (4, 6 12, or 16) all conferences need to adopt the same structure.

Since the NB12 plans to elevate 4 schools and adding Notre Dame on a full time basis takes us beyond 4 x 16, the next logical step would be 4 x 18. Unfortunately 5 conferences can't survive and have any type of logical division to advance the playoffs in an organized fashion.

This may not be perfect, but it should illustrate how conferences could be organized to allow for a rational playoff system so that every school could be involved and therefore profit from the system.

ACC
adds: UCF, West Virginia, Tulane, Houston

B1G
adds: Notre Dame, Cincinnati, Iowa State, Kansas

SEC
adds: USF, Baylor

PAC
adds: San Diego State, BYU, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech, TCU

I still like the traditional division approach, but with 18 teams those divisions could be either 2 x 9 or 3 x 6.

IMO, the addition of UT and OU has completely changed the SEC’s viewpoint on conferences. If you have the most valuable brands and a long record of winning the most national championships, seeking “symmetry” is analogous to promoting welfare, redistribution and Socialism. Conference symmetry would help if conferences had relatively comparable brands and opportunities. Symmetry could have worked if: a) UT, OU, TTU and KU had joined the PAC, and b) ND joined the ACC.

Standardizing conference structures to 4x18 is now futile. Unfortunately, all four conferences would be weakened by expanding with the proposed members. The SEC is fully aligned with ND…they don’t value conference champions. The Alliance (B1G, ACC and PAC) still promotes the importance of conference champions, but they’re losing the PR war about CFP expansion.

You do have to wonder if the predatory attitude the SEC has been displaying is fueled by the Post-Skipper leadership at ESPN or from the SEC itself.
Either way it doesn't bode very well for the overall health of collegiate athletics.

SEC is also under relatively new leadership; Sankey hasn't been in charge all that long.

That said, I blame realignment on ESPN and Fox.

It is, has been, and will be, corporate network driven. Anyone who has witnessed a buyout or takeover can see all of the signs of it. Only the most delusional still want to blame conferences and schools.

Prior to 2010 most conference revenue was plus or minus 3 million of each other at the upper echelon. Then came the if you expand your footprint (network word) we will increase your pay. Then came we will pay you more if you add content and inventory (network and business words), and now it is all about ratings for ad leverage and, wait for it, exposure (more network lingo). Verbiage always tells you who is in control. Commissioners talk about schools and their accomplishments and championships, at least until 2010, and now they talk about.....media distributions.

So who is in control? ESPN was quietly involved in expansion in expansion post Penn State because Delany was a not their fan. Who did the SEC go to for a valuation on FSU in '90? ESPN. Markets were the rage then and ESPN knew they could double dip Florida if FSU was in the ACC and that such a move would keep the SEC from getting too strong for them at the time. So how did the ACC know how much the SEC would offer and when they would offer it? Yep, ESPN. Their goal then was domination of the strongest college football markets and that's where we have headed since.

Why FOX? Two media companies can avoid anti-trust suits if they secretly work together. It's amazing how incestuous the two are! But what do the gullible say and do? They tell us who will never go here or there, and they tout academics as if it still matters in a post amateur world, and they blame schools and conferences instead of corporate overlords.

And yet during the CFP we've had a committee who selected on most years not necessarily the 4 best, but the 4 best who could draw a larger market share. Tinfoil hat? Just follow the money!

These threads on if so and so had gone to conference x or y are hilarious. Schools made the most profitable moves. Being pissed about officiating, bad blood, etc, is just fan fiction being jazzed by leadership to fan the flames of rivalry to hype the games when they are played. And yet we have flame wars over this nonsense.

What do I think happened with the 12 team playoff? Who leaked Texas and OU to the SEC? Likely our media partners since it (1) drives interest, (2) creates playoff expansion talk, (3) happens when conference consolidation is triggered so it covers the focus on a. pay differential, b. which two conferences emerge as P+ and which three as P-, c. it happens as NIL emerges with pay for play looming.

If we wind up with a P2 and a solid P- catch all then the playoffs become self contained and FOX and ESPN make a killing. Panic to jump into one of the 2 leaders becomes the norm, fans go along as long as they aren't left out, and with low overhead for the two NETS with schools covering the payouts, they have a mini NFL all to themselves.

It has all been corporate, and the lure was financial disparity which was made an issue in a for pay arms race started by network money.

I have been telling people for years that, for the SEC at least, the networks became "THE" boss right here.

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/news...id=3553033

As you said. there isn't a much new stuff, but it's a whole new level.

(06-13-2022 05:58 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(06-13-2022 04:52 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(06-13-2022 03:42 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(06-13-2022 12:13 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  

(06-04-2022 10:34 AM)XLance Wrote:  
It has become obvious that in order to have the symmetry necessary to have any kind of workable playoff structure (4, 6 12, or 16) all conferences need to adopt the same structure.

Since the NB12 plans to elevate 4 schools and adding Notre Dame on a full time basis takes us beyond 4 x 16, the next logical step would be 4 x 18. Unfortunately 5 conferences can't survive and have any type of logical division to advance the playoffs in an organized fashion.

This may not be perfect, but it should illustrate how conferences could be organized to allow for a rational playoff system so that every school could be involved and therefore profit from the system.

ACC
adds: UCF, West Virginia, Tulane, Houston

B1G
adds: Notre Dame, Cincinnati, Iowa State, Kansas

SEC
adds: USF, Baylor

PAC
adds: San Diego State, BYU, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech, TCU

I still like the traditional division approach, but with 18 teams those divisions could be either 2 x 9 or 3 x 6.

IMO, the addition of UT and OU has completely changed the SEC’s viewpoint on conferences. If you have the most valuable brands and a long record of winning the most national championships, seeking “symmetry” is analogous to promoting welfare, redistribution and Socialism. Conference symmetry would help if conferences had relatively comparable brands and opportunities. Symmetry could have worked if: a) UT, OU, TTU and KU had joined the PAC, and b) ND joined the ACC.

Standardizing conference structures to 4x18 is now futile. Unfortunately, all four conferences would be weakened by expanding with the proposed members. The SEC is fully aligned with ND…they don’t value conference champions. The Alliance (B1G, ACC and PAC) still promotes the importance of conference champions, but they’re losing the PR war about CFP expansion.

You do have to wonder if the predatory attitude the SEC has been displaying is fueled by the Post-Skipper leadership at ESPN or from the SEC itself.
Either way it doesn't bode very well for the overall health of collegiate athletics.

SEC is also under relatively new leadership; Sankey hasn't been in charge all that long.

That said, I blame realignment on ESPN and Fox.

It is, has been, and will be, corporate network driven. Anyone who has witnessed a buyout or takeover can see all of the signs of it. Only the most delusional still want to blame conferences and schools.

Prior to 2010 most conference revenue was plus or minus 3 million of each other at the upper echelon. Then came the if you expand your footprint (network word) we will increase your pay. Then came we will pay you more if you add content and inventory (network and business words), and now it is all about ratings for ad leverage and, wait for it, exposure (more network lingo). Verbiage always tells you who is in control. Commissioners talk about schools and their accomplishments and championships, at least until 2010, and now they talk about.....media distributions.

So who is in control? ESPN was quietly involved in expansion in expansion post Penn State because Delany was a not their fan. Who did the SEC go to for a valuation on FSU in '90? ESPN. Markets were the rage then and ESPN knew they could double dip Florida if FSU was in the ACC and that such a move would keep the SEC from getting too strong for them at the time. So how did the ACC know how much the SEC would offer and when they would offer it? Yep, ESPN. Their goal then was domination of the strongest college football markets and that's where we have headed since.

Why FOX? Two media companies can avoid anti-trust suits if they secretly work together. It's amazing how incestuous the two are! But what do the gullible say and do? They tell us who will never go here or there, and they tout academics as if it still matters in a post amateur world, and they blame schools and conferences instead of corporate overlords.

And yet during the CFP we've had a committee who selected on most years not necessarily the 4 best, but the 4 best who could draw a larger market share. Tinfoil hat? Just follow the money!

These threads on if so and so had gone to conference x or y are hilarious. Schools made the most profitable moves. Being pissed about officiating, bad blood, etc, is just fan fiction being jazzed by leadership to fan the flames of rivalry to hype the games when they are played. And yet we have flame wars over this nonsense.

What do I think happened with the 12 team playoff? Who leaked Texas and OU to the SEC? Likely our media partners since it (1) drives interest, (2) creates playoff expansion talk, (3) happens when conference consolidation is triggered so it covers the focus on a. pay differential, b. which two conferences emerge as P+ and which three as P-, c. it happens as NIL emerges with pay for play looming.

If we wind up with a P2 and a solid P- catch all then the playoffs become self contained and FOX and ESPN make a killing. Panic to jump into one of the 2 leaders becomes the norm, fans go along as long as they aren't left out, and with low overhead for the two NETS with schools covering the payouts, they have a mini NFL all to themselves.

It has all been corporate, and the lure was financial disparity which was made an issue in a for pay arms race started by network money.

Even Fluguar is saying it:

Classic case of the blind squirrel, I guess.

(06-13-2022 03:42 PM)XLance Wrote:  You do have to wonder if the predatory attitude the SEC has been displaying is fueled by the Post-Skipper leadership at ESPN or from the SEC itself.
Either way it doesn't bode very well for the overall health of collegiate athletics.

Whose goal is "the overall health of collegiate athletics"? That may be the goal of the NCAA, since they answer to the hundreds of schools that compete at the lowest levels. But for the SEC, a more appropriate goal might be "the overall health of P5 athletics".

I'm sure some would weep for the demise of D-II and/or D-III athletics, but I would only do so in theory, because I have no stake in any D-II or D-III school. I imagine those schools would continue to field athletic teams whether the NCAA survives or not. And they would be at least as healthy as they are now.

(06-14-2022 11:17 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(06-13-2022 03:42 PM)XLance Wrote:  You do have to wonder if the predatory attitude the SEC has been displaying is fueled by the Post-Skipper leadership at ESPN or from the SEC itself.
Either way it doesn't bode very well for the overall health of collegiate athletics.

Whose goal is "the overall health of collegiate athletics"? That may be the goal of the NCAA, since they answer to the hundreds of schools that compete at the lowest levels. But for the SEC, a more appropriate goal might be "the overall health of P5 athletics".

I'm sure some would weep for the demise of D-II and/or D-III athletics, but I would only do so in theory, because I have no stake in any D-II or D-III school. I imagine those schools would continue to field athletic teams whether the NCAA survives or not. And they would be at least as healthy as they are now.

It's not a good thing when collegiate athletics is manipulated by a corporate entity for the benefit of that entity or for any one conference to bully even a sub group (P5) of college athletics to make changes that would be advantageous to the bully at the expense of the rest of the group.

I would like the P5 schools to be self governing apart from the smaller schools, but I don't want ESPN, the SEC or the pair of them conspiring to make the rules.

(06-15-2022 04:53 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(06-14-2022 11:17 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(06-13-2022 03:42 PM)XLance Wrote:  You do have to wonder if the predatory attitude the SEC has been displaying is fueled by the Post-Skipper leadership at ESPN or from the SEC itself.
Either way it doesn't bode very well for the overall health of collegiate athletics.

Whose goal is "the overall health of collegiate athletics"? That may be the goal of the NCAA, since they answer to the hundreds of schools that compete at the lowest levels. But for the SEC, a more appropriate goal might be "the overall health of P5 athletics".

I'm sure some would weep for the demise of D-II and/or D-III athletics, but I would only do so in theory, because I have no stake in any D-II or D-III school. I imagine those schools would continue to field athletic teams whether the NCAA survives or not. And they would be at least as healthy as they are now.

It's not a good thing when collegiate athletics is manipulated by a corporate entity for the benefit of that entity or for any one conference to bully even a sub group (P5) of college athletics to make changes that would be advantageous to the bully at the expense of the rest of the group.

I would like the P5 schools to be self governing apart from the smaller schools, but I don't want ESPN, the SEC or the pair of them conspiring to make the rules.

We have different concepts of "collegiate athletics". To me, it is the 95% of schools who aren't essentially professional. I don't care much about how the market sorts out the winners and losers among the 5% who are.

(06-15-2022 04:53 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(06-14-2022 11:17 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(06-13-2022 03:42 PM)XLance Wrote:  You do have to wonder if the predatory attitude the SEC has been displaying is fueled by the Post-Skipper leadership at ESPN or from the SEC itself.
Either way it doesn't bode very well for the overall health of collegiate athletics.

Whose goal is "the overall health of collegiate athletics"? That may be the goal of the NCAA, since they answer to the hundreds of schools that compete at the lowest levels. But for the SEC, a more appropriate goal might be "the overall health of P5 athletics".

I'm sure some would weep for the demise of D-II and/or D-III athletics, but I would only do so in theory, because I have no stake in any D-II or D-III school. I imagine those schools would continue to field athletic teams whether the NCAA survives or not. And they would be at least as healthy as they are now.

It's not a good thing when collegiate athletics is manipulated by a corporate entity for the benefit of that entity or for any one conference to bully even a sub group (P5) of college athletics to make changes that would be advantageous to the bully at the expense of the rest of the group.

I would like the P5 schools to be self governing apart from the smaller schools, but I don't want ESPN, the SEC or the pair of them conspiring to make the rules.

ESPN is already making the rules, not conspiring, IMO.

(06-13-2022 05:34 PM)Porcine Wrote:  

(06-13-2022 04:52 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(06-13-2022 03:42 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(06-13-2022 12:13 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  

(06-04-2022 10:34 AM)XLance Wrote:  
It has become obvious that in order to have the symmetry necessary to have any kind of workable playoff structure (4, 6 12, or 16) all conferences need to adopt the same structure.

Since the NB12 plans to elevate 4 schools and adding Notre Dame on a full time basis takes us beyond 4 x 16, the next logical step would be 4 x 18. Unfortunately 5 conferences can't survive and have any type of logical division to advance the playoffs in an organized fashion.

This may not be perfect, but it should illustrate how conferences could be organized to allow for a rational playoff system so that every school could be involved and therefore profit from the system.

ACC
adds: UCF, West Virginia, Tulane, Houston

B1G
adds: Notre Dame, Cincinnati, Iowa State, Kansas

SEC
adds: USF, Baylor

PAC
adds: San Diego State, BYU, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech, TCU

I still like the traditional division approach, but with 18 teams those divisions could be either 2 x 9 or 3 x 6.

IMO, the addition of UT and OU has completely changed the SEC’s viewpoint on conferences. If you have the most valuable brands and a long record of winning the most national championships, seeking “symmetry” is analogous to promoting welfare, redistribution and Socialism. Conference symmetry would help if conferences had relatively comparable brands and opportunities. Symmetry could have worked if: a) UT, OU, TTU and KU had joined the PAC, and b) ND joined the ACC.

Standardizing conference structures to 4x18 is now futile. Unfortunately, all four conferences would be weakened by expanding with the proposed members. The SEC is fully aligned with ND…they don’t value conference champions. The Alliance (B1G, ACC and PAC) still promotes the importance of conference champions, but they’re losing the PR war about CFP expansion.

You do have to wonder if the predatory attitude the SEC has been displaying is fueled by the Post-Skipper leadership at ESPN or from the SEC itself.
Either way it doesn't bode very well for the overall health of collegiate athletics.

SEC is also under relatively new leadership; Sankey hasn't been in charge all that long.

That said, I blame realignment on ESPN and Fox.

And the last I checked, it isn't the SEC that has hostages.

If you are equating GOR = hostages, then the SEC also has hostages. All schools in the B1G, B12, ACC and SEC willingly provided GORs in exchange for money…either more or sooner distributions. Every written contract is a form of creating “hostages”, attempting to build trust.

(06-15-2022 06:48 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  

(06-13-2022 05:34 PM)Porcine Wrote:  

(06-13-2022 04:52 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(06-13-2022 03:42 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(06-13-2022 12:13 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  IMO, the addition of UT and OU has completely changed the SEC’s viewpoint on conferences. If you have the most valuable brands and a long record of winning the most national championships, seeking “symmetry” is analogous to promoting welfare, redistribution and Socialism. Conference symmetry would help if conferences had relatively comparable brands and opportunities. Symmetry could have worked if: a) UT, OU, TTU and KU had joined the PAC, and b) ND joined the ACC.

Standardizing conference structures to 4x18 is now futile. Unfortunately, all four conferences would be weakened by expanding with the proposed members. The SEC is fully aligned with ND…they don’t value conference champions. The Alliance (B1G, ACC and PAC) still promotes the importance of conference champions, but they’re losing the PR war about CFP expansion.

You do have to wonder if the predatory attitude the SEC has been displaying is fueled by the Post-Skipper leadership at ESPN or from the SEC itself.
Either way it doesn't bode very well for the overall health of collegiate athletics.

SEC is also under relatively new leadership; Sankey hasn't been in charge all that long.

That said, I blame realignment on ESPN and Fox.

And the last I checked, it isn't the SEC that has hostages.

If you are equating GOR = hostages, then the SEC also has hostages. All schools in the B1G, B12, ACC and SEC willingly provided GORs in exchange for money…either more or sooner distributions. Every written contract is a form of creating “hostages”, attempting to build trust.

You are only a hostage if you want out. Nobody in the SEC or B1G wants out. Hostage is a state of mind. Happy people don't see their obligations as bondage. Unhappy ones do.

(06-15-2022 07:41 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(06-15-2022 06:48 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  

(06-13-2022 05:34 PM)Porcine Wrote:  

(06-13-2022 04:52 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(06-13-2022 03:42 PM)XLance Wrote:  You do have to wonder if the predatory attitude the SEC has been displaying is fueled by the Post-Skipper leadership at ESPN or from the SEC itself.
Either way it doesn't bode very well for the overall health of collegiate athletics.

SEC is also under relatively new leadership; Sankey hasn't been in charge all that long.

That said, I blame realignment on ESPN and Fox.

And the last I checked, it isn't the SEC that has hostages.

If you are equating GOR = hostages, then the SEC also has hostages. All schools in the B1G, B12, ACC and SEC willingly provided GORs in exchange for money…either more or sooner distributions. Every written contract is a form of creating “hostages”, attempting to build trust.

You are only a hostage if you want out. Nobody in the SEC or B1G wants out. Hostage is a state of mind. Happy people don't see their obligations as bondage. Unhappy ones do.

LOL
I thought that hostages had to be held involuntarily (which doesn’t apply to GOR). I didn’t think about fans’ state of mind.

(06-15-2022 09:11 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  

(06-15-2022 07:41 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(06-15-2022 06:48 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  

(06-13-2022 05:34 PM)Porcine Wrote:  

(06-13-2022 04:52 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  SEC is also under relatively new leadership; Sankey hasn't been in charge all that long.

That said, I blame realignment on ESPN and Fox.

And the last I checked, it isn't the SEC that has hostages.

If you are equating GOR = hostages, then the SEC also has hostages. All schools in the B1G, B12, ACC and SEC willingly provided GORs in exchange for money…either more or sooner distributions. Every written contract is a form of creating “hostages”, attempting to build trust.

You are only a hostage if you want out. Nobody in the SEC or B1G wants out. Hostage is a state of mind. Happy people don't see their obligations as bondage. Unhappy ones do.

LOL
I thought that hostages had to be held involuntarily (which doesn’t apply to GOR). I didn’t think about fans’ state of mind.

My point is we are bound by many obligations both as institutions, citizens, and just being plain ole' people. Work, marriage, parenthood, morality, or lack thereof impact about every life. We don't feel bound when we feel secure or happy in those obligations. As citizens we do feel impinged by compulsory service if the sacrifice can be dodged by some and shouldered by others whereas if it falls on all equally we accept it more readily.

As to the ACC's GOR it no longer grants security equally, though some shoulder the burden of service while others profit from their obligation. Happiness is lost by some, and the responsibility to sacrifice is not equal. Yes, you have a contract but when it expires relationships will have long since disintegrated, and all will have missed a chance to hold it together. Like a couple no longer in love not even tolerance can preserve the future for children in a home with no love and a relationship of even silent hostility.

Short version, you aren't saving anything, but you are fostering frustration and anger. Now go thump your chest and celebrate your contract of misery. When it's over it's over whether in business, citizen obligation, or private life. Contentment, Satisfaction, and Happiness are all that ever hold anything together. Do you know how miserable it can be to stay bound to those who despise you for 12 more years?

I'm the one having a LOL!

(06-15-2022 09:31 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(06-15-2022 09:11 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  

(06-15-2022 07:41 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(06-15-2022 06:48 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  

(06-13-2022 05:34 PM)Porcine Wrote:  And the last I checked, it isn't the SEC that has hostages.

If you are equating GOR = hostages, then the SEC also has hostages. All schools in the B1G, B12, ACC and SEC willingly provided GORs in exchange for money…either more or sooner distributions. Every written contract is a form of creating “hostages”, attempting to build trust.

You are only a hostage if you want out. Nobody in the SEC or B1G wants out. Hostage is a state of mind. Happy people don't see their obligations as bondage. Unhappy ones do.

LOL
I thought that hostages had to be held involuntarily (which doesn’t apply to GOR). I didn’t think about fans’ state of mind.

My point is we are bound by many obligations both as institutions, citizens, and just being plain ole' people. Work, marriage, parenthood, morality, or lack thereof impact about every life. We don't feel bound when we feel secure or happy in those obligations. As citizens we do feel impinged by compulsory service if the sacrifice can be dodged by some and shouldered by others whereas if it falls on all equally we accept it more readily.

As to the ACC's GOR it no longer grants security equally, though some shoulder the burden of service while others profit from their obligation. Happiness is lost by some, and the responsibility to sacrifice is not equal. Yes, you have a contract but when it expires relationships will have long since disintegrated, and all will have missed a chance to hold it together. Like a couple no longer in love not even tolerance can preserve the future for children in a home with no love and a relationship of even silent hostility.

Short version, you aren't saving anything, but you are fostering frustration and anger. Now go thump your chest and celebrate your contract of misery. When it's over it's over whether in business, citizen obligation, or private life. Contentment, Satisfaction, and Happiness are all that ever hold anything together. Do you know how miserable it can be to stay bound to those who despise you for 12 more years?

I'm the one having a LOL!

I got your point.

We’re still debating about college athletics…entertainment. Regardless, if any party is that miserable with their voluntary commitments there are plenty of options.

It won't happen, but I would love to see the ACC add Cincy and WVU full member, UCONN as an Olympic sport member (scheduling agreement in FB). Then the SEC jump in and grab Oklahoma St. and Kansas. It gets you a solid group of 60 schools + ND and UCONN in a P4 alignment that'll at least give fans a chance of seeing traditional rivalries restored (especially in the ACC). Of course this Big 12 wouldn't kill off the Big 12, and I'm sure they'll be able to pick off 2-8 teams from the AAC and MWC to stay P5, but they may be perceived as a lesser P5 by that point (maybe like C-USA grabbing a bunch of FCS schools to stay G5) making it seem like there is only a P4.

(06-17-2022 05:35 AM)GoBuckeyes1047 Wrote:  It won't happen, but I would love to see the ACC add Cincy and WVU full member, UCONN as an Olympic sport member (scheduling agreement in FB). Then the SEC jump in and grab Oklahoma St. and Kansas. It gets you a solid group of 60 schools + ND and UCONN in a P4 alignment that'll at least give fans a chance of seeing traditional rivalries restored (especially in the ACC). Of course this Big 12 wouldn't kill off the Big 12, and I'm sure they'll be able to pick off 2-8 teams from the AAC and MWC to stay P5, but they may be perceived as a lesser P5 by that point (maybe like C-USA grabbing a bunch of FCS schools to stay G5) making it seem like there is only a P4.

Teams left out from XII: Baylor, BYU, Central Florida, Houston, Iowa St, Kansas St, TCU, Texas Tech

What’s wild to me is every school that fell under the Big East football banner makes it in except South Florida and Temple. Both of whom could join Memphis and SMU for a solid new XII.

PAC / B1G stay as-is.

SEC
East: Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, South Carolina, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
South: Alabama, Arkansas, Auburn, LSU, Mississippi, Mississippi St
West: Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, Texas, Texas A&M

ACC
Atlantic: Boston College, Cincinnati, Louisville, Miami, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Virginia Tech, West Virginia
Coastal: Clemson, Duke, Florida St, Georgia Tech, North Carolina, North Carolina St, Virginia, Wake Forest
* Non-football: Connecticut, Notre Dame

XII
East: Central Florida, Houston, Memphis, SMU, South Florida, Temple
West: Baylor, BYU, Iowa St, Kansas St, TCU, Texas Tech