https://twitter.com/GuerinEmig/status/15...ETPuJk1RgA

up from ~$36M per team for the covid-wrecked '20 season. I think(?) these are the first '21-22 conference payout numbers.

Am curious to see how the B12 handles the 1-2 years that the new members will be there and before OU/UT leave. Even with reduced payouts, are Texas or Oklahoma going to "subsidize" the new members? Will the networks create an entirely new contract for those 1-2 years, or will there be an "addendum" splitting the money between the Little8 and the new members.

"...Membership timelines unchanged this morning. "Aspirationally" (Bowlsby's word) BYU, UH, UCF, Cincy all join Big 12 by fall of '23. BYU in for sure.

As for OU, Texas staying til summer of '25? Schovanec: "It would be premature to even speculate how that might play out.""

From the above twitter link.

(06-03-2022 01:31 PM)ColKurtz Wrote:  https://twitter.com/GuerinEmig/status/15...ETPuJk1RgA

up from ~$36M per team for the covid-wrecked '20 season. I think(?) these are the first '21-22 conference payout numbers.

Am curious to see how the B12 handles the 1-2 years that the new members will be there and before OU/UT leave. Even with reduced payouts, are Texas or Oklahoma going to "subsidize" the new members? Will the networks create an entirely new contract for those 1-2 years, or will there be an "addendum" splitting the money between the Little8 and the new members.

Effectively, OU and UT probably dont care about how the money is split in the couple of seasons they share a league with the newbies. The reality of how the exit fee works (the exit fee is defined as an amount equal to 2 years of an exiting schools conference revenue) is that UT and OU probably dont see a dime of conference money during those two years anyway. So---how its split among those who ARE getting a share is probably nothing they give a flip about.

My guess is the OU and UT shares will provide a slight bump for the remaining legacy members (say a million or two each)----and whats left over will be split among the 4 newbies. Using that 42.5 million per school figure, each legacy school could get an extra 2 million from the UT/OU shares and the remaining amount would give each newbie a 17+ million dollar payout. This also means that the 170 million in UT/OU exit fees may not be anywhere near the massive windfall for the remaining schools that one typically perceives.

(06-03-2022 02:45 PM)bullet Wrote:  "...Membership timelines unchanged this morning. "Aspirationally" (Bowlsby's word) BYU, UH, UCF, Cincy all join Big 12 by fall of '23. BYU in for sure.

As for OU, Texas staying til summer of '25? Schovanec: "It would be premature to even speculate how that might play out.""

From the above twitter link.

translation: need wait til negotiation and possible arbitration and potential court cases are resolved.

oh and maybe a bowlsby replacement...

The biggest news is the dog that didn't bark.

we didn't hear anything about UT and OU not getting distributions. big 12 bylaws say that distributions don't go to withdrawing members. course they also say 2 years notice, not 4.

so the big 12 is not escalating. which says to me that either UT and OU are in the Big 12 for 2024 and 2025, or at least their TV rights are.

(06-07-2022 07:23 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  The biggest news is the dog that didn't bark.

we didn't hear anything about UT and OU not getting distributions. big 12 bylaws say that distributions don't go to withdrawing members. course they also say 2 years notice, not 4.

so the big 12 is not escalating. which says to me that either UT and OU are in the Big 12 for 2024 and 2025, or at least their TV rights are.

Yes, IIRC there were some who were adamant that once TX and OU announced they were leaving last summer that they were no longer entitled to any distributions for the next four years.

But as you say, that doesn't seem to be the case, or at least I am assuming that if TX and OU did not share in this distribution, we would have heard about it.

(06-07-2022 07:29 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-07-2022 07:23 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  The biggest news is the dog that didn't bark.

we didn't hear anything about UT and OU not getting distributions. big 12 bylaws say that distributions don't go to withdrawing members. course they also say 2 years notice, not 4.

so the big 12 is not escalating. which says to me that either UT and OU are in the Big 12 for 2024 and 2025, or at least their TV rights are.

Yes, IIRC there were some who were adamant that once TX and OU announced they were leaving last summer that they were no longer entitled to any distributions for the next four years.

But as you say, that doesn't seem to be the case, or at least I am assuming that if TX and OU did not share in this distribution, we would have heard about it.

I was watching for the Big 12 distributions to come out, because I thought that was a deadline clock, and we'd see an agreement for TX and OU to take half-distributions for the next four years and stay, or sign over their TV rights for 2024 and 2025 and leave with the Big 12's and Fox/ESPN's blessing (Auburn @ Texas on Big Noon Sunday in October? sure why not).

The deadline past with no agreement, on paper anyway. But I think there's an unspoken agreement now that nobody's going to do anything crazy. Like push for 2x the list-price exit fee, or jailbreak the Big 12 bylaws / GOR.

(06-07-2022 09:33 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(06-07-2022 07:29 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-07-2022 07:23 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  The biggest news is the dog that didn't bark.

we didn't hear anything about UT and OU not getting distributions. big 12 bylaws say that distributions don't go to withdrawing members. course they also say 2 years notice, not 4.

so the big 12 is not escalating. which says to me that either UT and OU are in the Big 12 for 2024 and 2025, or at least their TV rights are.

Yes, IIRC there were some who were adamant that once TX and OU announced they were leaving last summer that they were no longer entitled to any distributions for the next four years.

But as you say, that doesn't seem to be the case, or at least I am assuming that if TX and OU did not share in this distribution, we would have heard about it.

I was watching for the Big 12 distributions to come out, because I thought that was a deadline clock, and we'd see an agreement for TX and OU to take half-distributions for the next four years and stay, or sign over their TV rights for 2024 and 2025 and leave with the Big 12's and Fox/ESPN's blessing (Auburn @ Texas on Big Noon Sunday in October? sure why not).

The deadline past with no agreement, on paper anyway. But I think there's an unspoken agreement now that nobody's going to do anything crazy. Like push for 2x the list-price exit fee, or jailbreak the Big 12 bylaws / GOR.

The take away here is it appears GOR's largely work as advertised. They may not keep valuable schools in your conference forever---but they certainly keep them in your conference until the GOR agreement expires.

[align=left]

(06-07-2022 11:44 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  The take away here is it appears GOR's largely work as advertised. They may not keep valuable schools in your conference forever---but they certainly keep them in your conference until the GOR agreement expires.

Certainly?

TBD on that as well as how much OU and UT end up paying should they exit before June 30, 2025.

There is this notion GoR's were put in place to protect (and ultimately enrich) the member schools and the conferences themselves should the league's more valuable institutions seek greener pastures elsewhere.

But it's hard to imagine it wasn't ESPN itself (and perhaps FOX, too) wanting to lock up the Big 12 (and, in ESPN's case, the ACC) media rights at a fixed dollar amount driving the bus -- and not the less savvy conference commissioners or school presidents.

ESPN and FOX are in the business of making money.

It doesn't an accounting degree to recognize that over time Texas and Oklahoma will be worth more to the four-letter network's bottom line in the higher-profile SEC than in the Big 12.

(06-07-2022 09:27 PM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  [align=left]

(06-07-2022 11:44 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  The take away here is it appears GOR's largely work as advertised. They may not keep valuable schools in your conference forever---but they certainly keep them in your conference until the GOR agreement expires.

Certainly?

TBD on that as well as how much OU and UT end up paying should they exit before June 30, 2025.

There is this notion GoR's were put in place to protect (and ultimately enrich) the member schools and the conferences themselves should the league's more valuable institutions seek greener pastures elsewhere.

But it's hard to imagine it wasn't ESPN itself (and perhaps FOX, too) wanting to lock up the Big 12 (and, in ESPN's case, the ACC) media rights at a fixed dollar amount driving the bus -- and not the less savvy conference commissioners or school presidents.

ESPN and FOX are in the business of making money.

It doesn't an accounting degree to recognize that over time Texas and Oklahoma will be worth more to the four-letter network's bottom line in the higher-profile SEC than in the Big 12.

About the bolded, that's a good point. In fact, IIRC, during negotiations for some conference media deals, I have read reports that a conference could get a slightly higher deal if it agreed to a GOR - presumably because the network is willing to pay a bonus for having that added layer of certainty that they are getting those schools at that price for that amount of time.

That's why I think the network stumbling block to an early TX/OU move is FOX, not ESPN. ESPN presumably wouldn't mind TX and OU exiting their Big 12 GOR and joining the SEC early because they would then get full access to their games rather than sharing them with FOX as they do in the Big 12 contracts. It's FOX that would be losing access to TX and OU between now and 2025, and so they would have to be made whole somehow, regardless of what the Big 12 and its schools think. IOWs, for those schools to leave early, it's not just the Big 12 that would have to be satisfied, FOX would have to be as well.

All of that said, I do agree with "Attack" about this also showing the strength of GORs. Put it this way - if the Big 12 didn't have a GOR, I think that TX and OU would already have announced they would be joining the SEC for fall 2023.

Also, schools presidents sometimes are savvy. Consider the cases of TX and OU vs say UCF and Cincy. TX and OU could be stuck in the Big 12 for four more years, because their presidents signed that GOR in 2012.

In contrast, Cincy and UCF are likely going to be in the Big 12 for 2023, because IIRC their presidents wisely refused to sign a GOR during the 2019 media deal negotiations.

Imagine if Cincy/UCF/Houston had in 2019 signed a GOR that gave AAC their media rights until 2032? That could have been a major problem, one that would make leaving for the Big 12 much costlier for them. Savvy.

(06-08-2022 09:05 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-07-2022 09:27 PM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  [align=left]

(06-07-2022 11:44 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  The take away here is it appears GOR's largely work as advertised. They may not keep valuable schools in your conference forever---but they certainly keep them in your conference until the GOR agreement expires.

Certainly?

TBD on that as well as how much OU and UT end up paying should they exit before June 30, 2025.

There is this notion GoR's were put in place to protect (and ultimately enrich) the member schools and the conferences themselves should the league's more valuable institutions seek greener pastures elsewhere.

But it's hard to imagine it wasn't ESPN itself (and perhaps FOX, too) wanting to lock up the Big 12 (and, in ESPN's case, the ACC) media rights at a fixed dollar amount driving the bus -- and not the less savvy conference commissioners or school presidents.

ESPN and FOX are in the business of making money.

It doesn't an accounting degree to recognize that over time Texas and Oklahoma will be worth more to the four-letter network's bottom line in the higher-profile SEC than in the Big 12.

About the bolded, that's a good point. In fact, IIRC, during negotiations for some conference media deals, I have read reports that a conference could get a slightly higher deal if it agreed to a GOR - presumably because the network is willing to pay a bonus for having that added layer of certainty that they are getting those schools at that price for that amount of time.

That's why I think the network stumbling block to an early TX/OU move is FOX, not ESPN. ESPN presumably wouldn't mind TX and OU exiting their Big 12 GOR and joining the SEC early because they would then get full access to their games rather than sharing them with FOX as they do in the Big 12 contracts. It's FOX that would be losing access to TX and OU between now and 2025, and so they would have to be made whole somehow, regardless of what the Big 12 and its schools think. IOWs, for those schools to leave early, it's not just the Big 12 that would have to be satisfied, FOX would have to be as well.

All of that said, I do agree with "Attack" about this also showing the strength of GORs. Put it this way - if the Big 12 didn't have a GOR, I think that TX and OU would already have announced they would be joining the SEC for fall 2023.

Didn't FOX pass on the broadcasting all future Big 12 championship games?

(06-08-2022 09:10 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(06-08-2022 09:05 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-07-2022 09:27 PM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  [align=left]

(06-07-2022 11:44 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  The take away here is it appears GOR's largely work as advertised. They may not keep valuable schools in your conference forever---but they certainly keep them in your conference until the GOR agreement expires.

Certainly?

TBD on that as well as how much OU and UT end up paying should they exit before June 30, 2025.

There is this notion GoR's were put in place to protect (and ultimately enrich) the member schools and the conferences themselves should the league's more valuable institutions seek greener pastures elsewhere.

But it's hard to imagine it wasn't ESPN itself (and perhaps FOX, too) wanting to lock up the Big 12 (and, in ESPN's case, the ACC) media rights at a fixed dollar amount driving the bus -- and not the less savvy conference commissioners or school presidents.

ESPN and FOX are in the business of making money.

It doesn't an accounting degree to recognize that over time Texas and Oklahoma will be worth more to the four-letter network's bottom line in the higher-profile SEC than in the Big 12.

About the bolded, that's a good point. In fact, IIRC, during negotiations for some conference media deals, I have read reports that a conference could get a slightly higher deal if it agreed to a GOR - presumably because the network is willing to pay a bonus for having that added layer of certainty that they are getting those schools at that price for that amount of time.

That's why I think the network stumbling block to an early TX/OU move is FOX, not ESPN. ESPN presumably wouldn't mind TX and OU exiting their Big 12 GOR and joining the SEC early because they would then get full access to their games rather than sharing them with FOX as they do in the Big 12 contracts. It's FOX that would be losing access to TX and OU between now and 2025, and so they would have to be made whole somehow, regardless of what the Big 12 and its schools think. IOWs, for those schools to leave early, it's not just the Big 12 that would have to be satisfied, FOX would have to be as well.

All of that said, I do agree with "Attack" about this also showing the strength of GORs. Put it this way - if the Big 12 didn't have a GOR, I think that TX and OU would already have announced they would be joining the SEC for fall 2023.

Didn't FOX pass on the broadcasting all future Big 12 championship games?

Yes, but IMO, not wanting to meet the Big 12's asking price for future CCGs (which IIRC is what happened) is one thing, being willing to give up TX and OU regular season games for a couple seasons might be another.

(06-08-2022 09:05 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  About the bolded, that's a good point. In fact, IIRC, during negotiations for some conference media deals, I have read reports that a conference could get a slightly higher deal if it agreed to a GOR - presumably because the network is willing to pay a bonus for having that added layer of certainty that they are getting those schools at that price for that amount of time.

That's why I think the network stumbling block to an early TX/OU move is FOX, not ESPN. ESPN presumably wouldn't mind TX and OU exiting their Big 12 GOR and joining the SEC early because they would then get full access to their games rather than sharing them with FOX as they do in the Big 12 contracts. It's FOX that would be losing access to TX and OU between now and 2025, and so they would have to be made whole somehow, regardless of what the Big 12 and its schools think. IOWs, for those schools to leave early, it's not just the Big 12 that would have to be satisfied, FOX would have to be as well.

I'll hazard a guess that part of the ongoing B1G negotiations is tied into FOX and ESPN doing some "horse trading" that benefits both (e.g., freeing up OU and UT to leave early in exchange for "sharing" the media rights of current ESPN properties in the ACC, i.e. UNC, UVA and Duke).

Fox Broadcasting Company — which has said publicly it's not interested in an ESPN+ type streaming platform at this time — doesn't need the entire B1G contract to fill slots on FOX and FS1.

(06-07-2022 09:27 PM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  There is this notion GoR's were put in place to protect (and ultimately enrich) the member schools and the conferences themselves should the league's more valuable institutions seek greener pastures elsewhere.

But it's hard to imagine it wasn't ESPN itself (and perhaps FOX, too) wanting to lock up the Big 12 (and, in ESPN's case, the ACC) media rights at a fixed dollar amount driving the bus -- and not the less savvy conference commissioners or school presidents.

ESPN and FOX are in the business of making money.

It doesn't an accounting degree to recognize that over time Texas and Oklahoma will be worth more to the four-letter network's bottom line in the higher-profile SEC than in the Big 12.

BINGO!

ESPN pushed for an ACC GoR before they would commit to the ACC Network. Why would they pay for someone to break the deal, when they are the primary beneficiary?

(06-03-2022 01:31 PM)ColKurtz Wrote:  https://twitter.com/GuerinEmig/status/15...ETPuJk1RgA

up from ~$36M per team for the covid-wrecked '20 season. I think(?) these are the first '21-22 conference payout numbers.

Am curious to see how the B12 handles the 1-2 years that the new members will be there and before OU/UT leave. Even with reduced payouts, are Texas or Oklahoma going to "subsidize" the new members? Will the networks create an entirely new contract for those 1-2 years, or will there be an "addendum" splitting the money between the Little8 and the new members.

I am curious if the average payout per team was actually $42.6 million.

The total revenue was $426 million so average “revenue” per team is $42.6 million. But as you know, the revenue and the distribution are two different things because a conference office incurs significant expenses, resulting in a smaller net distribution.

Knowing that the admin cost is at least 10 percent of the total revenue, I suspect that B12’s actual net payout per team should be about $38.3 million for FY 2022.

(06-08-2022 12:20 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  Knowing that the admin cost is at least 10 percent of the total revenue, I suspect that B12’s actual net payout per team should be about $38.3 million for FY 2022.

Also will need to set aside a nice chunk of change for Bob Bowlsby's buyout going away gift

(06-08-2022 12:20 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  

(06-03-2022 01:31 PM)ColKurtz Wrote:  https://twitter.com/GuerinEmig/status/15...ETPuJk1RgA

up from ~$36M per team for the covid-wrecked '20 season. I think(?) these are the first '21-22 conference payout numbers.

Am curious to see how the B12 handles the 1-2 years that the new members will be there and before OU/UT leave. Even with reduced payouts, are Texas or Oklahoma going to "subsidize" the new members? Will the networks create an entirely new contract for those 1-2 years, or will there be an "addendum" splitting the money between the Little8 and the new members.

I am curious if the average payout per team was actually $42.6 million.

The total revenue was $426 million so average “revenue” per team is $42.6 million. But as you know, the revenue and the distribution are two different things because a conference office incurs significant expenses, resulting in a smaller net distribution.

Knowing that the admin cost is at least 10 percent of the total revenue, I suspect that B12’s actual net payout per team should be about $38.3 million for FY 2022.

Correct. Does anyone have a link explaining how the Big XII conference itself is financed? I assume it must be a fixed amount of "dues" per school, or something like that?

(06-08-2022 12:20 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  

(06-03-2022 01:31 PM)ColKurtz Wrote:  https://twitter.com/GuerinEmig/status/15...ETPuJk1RgA

up from ~$36M per team for the covid-wrecked '20 season. I think(?) these are the first '21-22 conference payout numbers.

Am curious to see how the B12 handles the 1-2 years that the new members will be there and before OU/UT leave. Even with reduced payouts, are Texas or Oklahoma going to "subsidize" the new members? Will the networks create an entirely new contract for those 1-2 years, or will there be an "addendum" splitting the money between the Little8 and the new members.

I am curious if the average payout per team was actually $42.6 million.

The total revenue was $426 million so average “revenue” per team is $42.6 million. But as you know, the revenue and the distribution are two different things because a conference office incurs significant expenses, resulting in a smaller net distribution.

Knowing that the admin cost is at least 10 percent of the total revenue, I suspect that B12’s actual net payout per team should be about $38.3 million for FY 2022.

Why are you inventing things?

It quite simply says $42.6 million is the average distribution. That's very clear.
It doesn't say anything about "revenue."

(06-08-2022 12:29 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(06-08-2022 12:20 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  

(06-03-2022 01:31 PM)ColKurtz Wrote:  https://twitter.com/GuerinEmig/status/15...ETPuJk1RgA

up from ~$36M per team for the covid-wrecked '20 season. I think(?) these are the first '21-22 conference payout numbers.

Am curious to see how the B12 handles the 1-2 years that the new members will be there and before OU/UT leave. Even with reduced payouts, are Texas or Oklahoma going to "subsidize" the new members? Will the networks create an entirely new contract for those 1-2 years, or will there be an "addendum" splitting the money between the Little8 and the new members.

I am curious if the average payout per team was actually $42.6 million.

The total revenue was $426 million so average “revenue” per team is $42.6 million. But as you know, the revenue and the distribution are two different things because a conference office incurs significant expenses, resulting in a smaller net distribution.

Knowing that the admin cost is at least 10 percent of the total revenue, I suspect that B12’s actual net payout per team should be about $38.3 million for FY 2022.

Correct. Does anyone have a link explaining how the Big XII conference itself is financed? I assume it must be a fixed amount of "dues" per school, or something like that?

You are confused by Swofford using the ACC as a piggy bank.
The link and press release are quite clear. $42.6 million is the average distribution.

I would think that OU and UT would be somewhat indifferent to the move to the SEC.

Texas can at least go 3-6 in the Big 12, and they really want to be in the Pac 12 or Austin is the Center of The Universe One. At least when they played Rice, Houston was close. Nashville is a longer trip, and if they wanted some music they would stay in Austin. Plus you have that whiner in Tuscaloosa who thinks there is something wrong about buying your whole recruiting class.