(05-19-2022 03:15 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  I love it when people from New England (OP author) tell us what we need out here.

If you mean "original post author", the closest "New England" to me is New England, North Dakota. Actually, I live in eastern ND so yes I live in the upper Midwest, a region I am specifically talking about. And no entry level G5 wants to visit as things sit today. (Admittedly things could change.)

(05-19-2022 04:49 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  

(05-19-2022 03:55 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(05-19-2022 03:36 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  

(05-19-2022 03:20 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  CUSA is half western and half southern.

The entry level conference now for both regions.

NMSU and UTEP are western. Sam Houston and LaTech really aren’t.

They are in rodeo country.

They don’t have rodeos in Alabama and Georgia?

They have them in Florida outside of Orlando (Kissimmee) Tampa (Arcadia) and Miami (Davie).

(05-19-2022 04:49 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  

(05-19-2022 03:55 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(05-19-2022 03:36 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  

(05-19-2022 03:20 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  CUSA is half western and half southern.

The entry level conference now for both regions.

NMSU and UTEP are western. Sam Houston and LaTech really aren’t.

They are in rodeo country.

They don’t have rodeos in Alabama and Georgia?

They push rodeo's in Louisiana like they are in Texas. Shreveport feels like East Texas. Lafayette the deep south.

(05-19-2022 04:49 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  

(05-19-2022 03:55 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(05-19-2022 03:36 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  

(05-19-2022 03:20 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  CUSA is half western and half southern.

The entry level conference now for both regions.

NMSU and UTEP are western. Sam Houston and LaTech really aren’t.

They are in rodeo country.

They don’t have rodeos in Alabama and Georgia?

The first rodeo I ever went to was in Madison Square Garden. So, pretty much everywhere.

On a rodeo related note I think it's pretty safe to say that rodeo itself isn't a big draw even here in Texas. It's the events surrounding rodeos that bring people out. The Houston Rodeo is essentially a 3 week long set of big name concerts with a carnival. I have never heard of anyone actually going to the rodeo for the sole purpose of going to the rodeo itself. Even the small town rodeos have regionally well known "Texas Country" artists that bring people out. My friends and I go to rodeos solely for the social aspect around the rodeo.

All that to say that rodeos aren't a good barometer of westernness. At least not in central Texas.

(05-19-2022 03:36 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  

(05-19-2022 03:20 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  CUSA is half western and half southern.

The entry level conference now for both regions.

NMSU and UTEP are western. Sam Houston and LaTech really aren’t.

Then for that matter neither are the Dakota schools, which is what this thread is all about. My question would be if the NCAA were to remove the requirement that an FCS school needs to have an invitation to an FBS conference to move up, would any of the Dakota schools choose to move up?

(05-20-2022 09:52 AM)ken d Wrote:  My question would be if the NCAA were to remove the requirement that an FCS school needs to have an invitation to an FBS conference to move up, would any of the Dakota schools choose to move up?

NDSU would look long and hard, and do some serious thought about life as an FBS indy*, is my expectation. There are both schools of thought in that camp. Where they'd land I have no guess, coin flip. The Montanas and UND would be paying very close attention.

The SD schools have stated their like of FCS but if the surroundings shifted, who knows.

*being an indy is nothing like having a conference schedule waiting, and something to play for (conf title)

(05-20-2022 09:52 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(05-19-2022 03:36 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  

(05-19-2022 03:20 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  CUSA is half western and half southern.

The entry level conference now for both regions.

NMSU and UTEP are western. Sam Houston and LaTech really aren’t.

Then for that matter neither are the Dakota schools, which is what this thread is all about. My question would be if the NCAA were to remove the requirement that an FCS school needs to have an invitation to an FBS conference to move up, would any of the Dakota schools choose to move up?

I've had many conversations with in the know people at NDSU and this much is clear:
1. There is interest in moving to the FBS - for the "right" situation. Those that I spoke to are not happy with the direction of the FCS.
2. There is no interest in being independent.
3. Financials in moving to FBS are not a concern. In fact, there is more concern about losing fan interest and not being able to get any FBS games outside of what has already been scheduled. NDSU's success has effectively blackballed for FBS money games.
4. Interest among the other Dakota schools is luke warm at best.

(05-20-2022 10:05 AM)The Sicatoka Wrote:  

(05-20-2022 09:52 AM)ken d Wrote:  My question would be if the NCAA were to remove the requirement that an FCS school needs to have an invitation to an FBS conference to move up, would any of the Dakota schools choose to move up?

NDSU would look long and hard, and do some serious thought about life as an FBS indy*, is my expectation. There are both schools of thought in that camp. Where they'd land I have no guess, coin flip. The Montanas and UND would be paying very close attention.

The SD schools have stated their like of FCS but if the surroundings shifted, who knows.

*being an indy is nothing like having a conference schedule waiting, and something to play for (conf title)

In addition to the conference invitation rule, if I'm not mistaken there is also a requirement to have at least five home games a year, at least four of which must be FBS schools. And even if there weren't such a rule a school like NDSU would want to have at least five home games. If all four Dakota schools moved up together, that only gives them 1 1/2 home games a year. NDSU might be able to attract some FBS schools in the region (like Minnesota, Nebraska, Kansas and Colorado schools, Wyoming, etc.) but the other three wouldn't have much success fishing for opponents in the same shallow pond.

Geography dealt them all a bad hand, but there's really not much they can do about it except live with their place in the MVFC.

there's no need for it. CUSA, Sun Belt, and MAC already exist and completely fill the niche, and the once semi-power conference WAC Football fell apart due to lack of FBS-ready candidates to backfill with after their schools left to form the MWC. The fact that Louisiana Tech, who eventually left for the slightly less colder waters in CUSA, and Chicago State were in a conference for western schools is already a pretty big red flag, and long-time D1-A programs like Montana, Idaho, New Mexico State either got demoted to FCS or have been floating around independence ever since the fall of WAC football is also one. The west outside of California and the Seattle area has sparse populations and relatively weak tv value, and even if you include Texas you really only have the eastern half of the state. The demand is just not there, nor is the money.

The "western" definition cannot be 'West of the Mississippi.' CUSA and Sun Belt are already in Texas. CUSA will have two teams in the Mountain time zone.

North Dakota State is FBS-ready, if desired, but would not be very valuable to a truly "western" G5 conference that is centered in the Pacific and Mountain time zones.

From the Big Sky, only Montana and Montana State are ready for FBS, if they want it. No other Big Sky school can get more than 10K attendance...if they even have the stadium capacity for that. But, they were courted by and rejected the MWC.
Nothing else moves the FBS needle out west.

(05-20-2022 11:01 AM)YNot Wrote:  The "western" definition cannot be 'West of the Mississippi.' CUSA and Sun Belt are already in Texas. CUSA will have two teams in the Mountain time zone.

My proposed footprint is the front range and upper Midwest, say Spokane to Denver to KC to MSP. It's 1000 miles to Texas from there. CUSA and SBC are southeastern conferences.

Is the luke-warm interest because there's no obvious nearby conference? Would that change if there was a conference?

(05-20-2022 10:22 AM)ken d Wrote:  ... but the other three wouldn't have much success fishing for opponents in the same shallow pond.

Geography dealt them all a bad hand, but there's really not much they can do about it except live with their place in the MVFC.

That's why my Option 1 puts out the notion of group moving to form a conference. Scheduling issues solved.

(05-20-2022 11:01 AM)YNot Wrote:  The "western" definition cannot be 'West of the Mississippi.' CUSA and Sun Belt are already in Texas. CUSA will have two teams in the Mountain time zone.

North Dakota State is FBS-ready, if desired, but would not be very valuable to a truly "western" G5 conference that is centered in the Pacific and Mountain time zones.

From the Big Sky, only Montana and Montana State are ready for FBS, if they want it. No other Big Sky school can get more than 10K attendance...if they even have the stadium capacity for that. But, they were courted by and rejected the MWC.
Nothing else moves the FBS needle out west.

MWC never courted the Montana Schools - they would have accepted. The WAC called.

(05-20-2022 07:55 AM)The Sicatoka Wrote:  Actually, I live in eastern ND so yes I live in the upper Midwest, a region I am specifically talking about.

Yes -- the midwest, which is not part of the west.

The schools in the Dakotas are all clinging to the border with Minnesota. They are in the midwest, not the west, and they belong in a midwestern conference. They don't make sense in a conference of schools that are in the Rocky Mountains or west of the Rockies.

These schools are geographically sensible in the midwestern football conference they are already in, the MVFC -- see the map below -- or another conference with the same footprint, such as the MAC.

Missouri Valley Football Conference map:

The MAC doesn't and hasn't gone west of Illinois State (look at MVFC map).

There is no entry-level FBS conference for a huge swath of the country.

(05-20-2022 12:46 PM)The Sicatoka Wrote:  The MAC doesn't and hasn't gone west of Illinois State (look at MVFC map).

There is no entry-level FBS conference for a huge swath of the country.

Conference USA

In its name means the whole country. From Maine to Texas to Hawaii to Alaska.

(05-20-2022 07:55 AM)The Sicatoka Wrote:  

(05-19-2022 03:15 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  I love it when people from New England (OP author) tell us what we need out here.

If you mean "original post author", the closest "New England" to me is New England, North Dakota. Actually, I live in eastern ND so yes I live in the upper Midwest, a region I am specifically talking about. And no entry level G5 wants to visit as things sit today. (Admittedly things could change.)

Yes you are in the Midwest. You are not in the West, and you are clueless about the West.

(05-20-2022 12:49 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  Conference USA
In its name means the whole country. From Maine to Texas to Hawaii to Alaska.

And the Atlantic 10 can all see the ocean ...
What the name is and what they do are not the same.

(05-20-2022 12:49 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Yes you are in the Midwest. You are not in the West, and you are clueless about the West.

You're arguing a nuance? I viewed things as "east and west" in the thread title; sorry I confused you, because my opening post specifies "front range" (of the Rockies, like west) and "upper Midwest" (keyword: Midwest).