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Having spent a lot of time with the swimming & diving team while I was in college, I hadn't seen this news posted anywhere on the board. A search for "diving" here showed a ton of TH threads as he's famous for diving for the pylon.

https://swimswam.com/old-dominion-discon...20-season/

I pored through the archives and didn't see any place where this announcement became public. This report was from January of last year - months after the diving part of the program was quietly no longer a thing.

Why is this important?
The lack of transparency in announcing this builds on the thought from swimmers and divers they weren't cared about. I think this is a worse way to get rid of athletes than what they did to the wrestling team. There weren't many divers at the program's end, but when you aren't hiring a diving coach when the last one leaves, it pretty much shows potential recruits where your stance is with the support of your S&D program.

This puts the athletes on what's now just the "swimming" teams at a disadvantage when it comes time to win/compete for conference championships.

I looked at the men's runner-up finish in the CCSA (C-USA nor Sun Belt have men's S&D) and the finish was definitely positively impacted by the diving component. That possibility is all but gone now.

Is it possible to win a conference championship without diving? Yes, W&M did it in the CAA, but that isn't exactly a conference with any world-beaters in the swimming ranks. In the CCSA, who knows. According to one swimming expert I reached out to, you're not putting any potential scorers in anywhere from 4-6 events, leaving minimal room for anything short of perfect to score, so the chances of this even happening are slim. Very slim.

This is another sport athletics leadership has put behind the proverbial eight-ball. So if a kid wants to try to win a championship as part of their team - the deck is stacked against them if they want to swim in Norfolk.

Thoughts?

This is terrible. I am surprised it was both men's and women's diving. I figured with Title IX the men's diving was a goner, but I thought the women's would stay.

(05-17-2022 10:53 AM)ODUwildman Wrote:  Having spent a lot of time with the swimming & diving team while I was in college, I hadn't seen this news posted anywhere on the board. A search for "diving" here showed a ton of TH threads as he's famous for diving for the pylon.

https://swimswam.com/old-dominion-discon...20-season/

I pored through the archives and didn't see any place where this announcement became public. This report was from January of last year - months after the diving part of the program was quietly no longer a thing.

Why is this important?
The lack of transparency in announcing this builds on the thought from swimmers and divers they weren't cared about. I think this is a worse way to get rid of athletes than what they did to the wrestling team. There weren't many divers at the program's end, but when you aren't hiring a diving coach when the last one leaves, it pretty much shows potential recruits where your stance is with the support of your S&D program.

This puts the athletes on what's now just the "swimming" teams at a disadvantage when it comes time to win/compete for conference championships.

I looked at the men's runner-up finish in the CCSA (C-USA nor Sun Belt have men's S&D) and the finish was definitely positively impacted by the diving component. That possibility is all but gone now.

Is it possible to win a conference championship without diving? Yes, W&M did it in the CAA, but that isn't exactly a conference with any world-beaters in the swimming ranks. In the CCSA, who knows. According to one swimming expert I reached out to, you're not putting any potential scorers in anywhere from 4-6 events, leaving minimal room for anything short of perfect to score, so the chances of this even happening are slim. Very slim.

This is another sport athletics leadership has put behind the proverbial eight-ball. So if a kid wants to try to win a championship as part of their team - the deck is stacked against them if they want to swim in Norfolk.

Thoughts?

Speaking for myself, I don't really care. Sorry.

I saw a tweet from CollegeAD at some point when this happened.

That said, a decade ago when we were still in full FCS/CAA mode (2011-12) we had a total of 1 mens diver and 5 women.
The 2014-15 roster lists 2 men & 1 woman divers.

Looks like the diving coach was also a professor here and may have moved on professionally to Lamar.

I didn't know we had a diving team.

(05-17-2022 10:53 AM)ODUwildman Wrote:  Having spent a lot of time with the swimming & diving team while I was in college, I hadn't seen this news posted anywhere on the board. A search for "diving" here showed a ton of TH threads as he's famous for diving for the pylon.

https://swimswam.com/old-dominion-discon...20-season/

I pored through the archives and didn't see any place where this announcement became public. This report was from January of last year - months after the diving part of the program was quietly no longer a thing.

Why is this important?
The lack of transparency in announcing this builds on the thought from swimmers and divers they weren't cared about. I think this is a worse way to get rid of athletes than what they did to the wrestling team. There weren't many divers at the program's end, but when you aren't hiring a diving coach when the last one leaves, it pretty much shows potential recruits where your stance is with the support of your S&D program.

This puts the athletes on what's now just the "swimming" teams at a disadvantage when it comes time to win/compete for conference championships.

I looked at the men's runner-up finish in the CCSA (C-USA nor Sun Belt have men's S&D) and the finish was definitely positively impacted by the diving component. That possibility is all but gone now.

Is it possible to win a conference championship without diving? Yes, W&M did it in the CAA, but that isn't exactly a conference with any world-beaters in the swimming ranks. In the CCSA, who knows. According to one swimming expert I reached out to, you're not putting any potential scorers in anywhere from 4-6 events, leaving minimal room for anything short of perfect to score, so the chances of this even happening are slim. Very slim.

This is another sport athletics leadership has put behind the proverbial eight-ball. So if a kid wants to try to win a championship as part of their team - the deck is stacked against them if they want to swim in Norfolk.

Thoughts?

Your expert is wrong. This year’s NCAA champ got zero points from diving and managed to win a national championship

(05-20-2022 01:14 AM)Justanodufan Wrote:  

(05-17-2022 10:53 AM)ODUwildman Wrote:  Having spent a lot of time with the swimming & diving team while I was in college, I hadn't seen this news posted anywhere on the board. A search for "diving" here showed a ton of TH threads as he's famous for diving for the pylon.

https://swimswam.com/old-dominion-discon...20-season/

I pored through the archives and didn't see any place where this announcement became public. This report was from January of last year - months after the diving part of the program was quietly no longer a thing.

Why is this important?
The lack of transparency in announcing this builds on the thought from swimmers and divers they weren't cared about. I think this is a worse way to get rid of athletes than what they did to the wrestling team. There weren't many divers at the program's end, but when you aren't hiring a diving coach when the last one leaves, it pretty much shows potential recruits where your stance is with the support of your S&D program.

This puts the athletes on what's now just the "swimming" teams at a disadvantage when it comes time to win/compete for conference championships.

I looked at the men's runner-up finish in the CCSA (C-USA nor Sun Belt have men's S&D) and the finish was definitely positively impacted by the diving component. That possibility is all but gone now.

Is it possible to win a conference championship without diving? Yes, W&M did it in the CAA, but that isn't exactly a conference with any world-beaters in the swimming ranks. In the CCSA, who knows. According to one swimming expert I reached out to, you're not putting any potential scorers in anywhere from 4-6 events, leaving minimal room for anything short of perfect to score, so the chances of this even happening are slim. Very slim.

This is another sport athletics leadership has put behind the proverbial eight-ball. So if a kid wants to try to win a championship as part of their team - the deck is stacked against them if they want to swim in Norfolk.

Thoughts?

Your expert is wrong. This year’s NCAA champ got zero points from diving and managed to win a national championship

I was also speaking specifically at the conference championship, where every team enters and ODU's best opportunity to win any team hardware since the # of swimmers & divers from ODU who have ever made the NCAA tournament is small. I never mentioned NCAA championships.

But since you mention it, I'll explain why there's a difference and a distinction - You qualify for the NCAA championships, so like most individual sports, the more a team qualifies, the better their chances to score points and win an NCAA team title. A team of stellar swimmers getting a number of people through will logically have opportunities to score. Another individual sport - Penn State won the D1 wrestling title without qualifying a weight. A team of stellar lightweights can score x-amount of points, but won't score anything where they didn't qualify athletes.

So my expert isn’t wrong at all, you want to apply NCAA championship logic to a conference qualifier and they aren’t one and the same.

(06-03-2022 07:43 AM)ODUwildman Wrote:  

(05-20-2022 01:14 AM)Justanodufan Wrote:  

(05-17-2022 10:53 AM)ODUwildman Wrote:  Having spent a lot of time with the swimming & diving team while I was in college, I hadn't seen this news posted anywhere on the board. A search for "diving" here showed a ton of TH threads as he's famous for diving for the pylon.

https://swimswam.com/old-dominion-discon...20-season/

I pored through the archives and didn't see any place where this announcement became public. This report was from January of last year - months after the diving part of the program was quietly no longer a thing.

Why is this important?
The lack of transparency in announcing this builds on the thought from swimmers and divers they weren't cared about. I think this is a worse way to get rid of athletes than what they did to the wrestling team. There weren't many divers at the program's end, but when you aren't hiring a diving coach when the last one leaves, it pretty much shows potential recruits where your stance is with the support of your S&D program.

This puts the athletes on what's now just the "swimming" teams at a disadvantage when it comes time to win/compete for conference championships.

I looked at the men's runner-up finish in the CCSA (C-USA nor Sun Belt have men's S&D) and the finish was definitely positively impacted by the diving component. That possibility is all but gone now.

Is it possible to win a conference championship without diving? Yes, W&M did it in the CAA, but that isn't exactly a conference with any world-beaters in the swimming ranks. In the CCSA, who knows. According to one swimming expert I reached out to, you're not putting any potential scorers in anywhere from 4-6 events, leaving minimal room for anything short of perfect to score, so the chances of this even happening are slim. Very slim.

This is another sport athletics leadership has put behind the proverbial eight-ball. So if a kid wants to try to win a championship as part of their team - the deck is stacked against them if they want to swim in Norfolk.

Thoughts?

Your expert is wrong. This year’s NCAA champ got zero points from diving and managed to win a national championship

I was also speaking specifically at the conference championship, where every team enters and ODU's best opportunity to win any team hardware since the # of swimmers & divers from ODU who have ever made the NCAA tournament is small. I never mentioned NCAA championships.

But since you mention it, I'll explain why there's a difference and a distinction - You qualify for the NCAA championships, so like most individual sports, the more a team qualifies, the better their chances to score points and win an NCAA team title. A team of stellar swimmers getting a number of people through will logically have opportunities to score. Another individual sport - Penn State won the D1 wrestling title without qualifying a weight. A team of stellar lightweights can score x-amount of points, but won't score anything where they didn't qualify athletes.

So my expert isn’t wrong at all, you want to apply NCAA championship logic to a conference qualifier and they aren’t one and the same.

The same team that won the NCAA championship also won the Pac 12 championship………….

(06-05-2022 12:15 AM)Justanodufan Wrote:  The same team that won the NCAA championship also won the Pac 12 championship………….

A comparison of the nation's best swim team winning the six-team Pac-12 without divers and ODU contending for a CCSA title is apples and kumquats. I also clearly said the chances are slim without divers, which the swimming website SwimSwam explained was accurate. It's rare for teams to win conference titles without divers, but when you're the nation's best at swimming, that's more the exception than the rule.

If you want to get into a deep dive (no pun intended) of how swimming scoring works with the board, I'm more than prepared for it. The folks at SwimSwam have provided me with more than enough information.

Please don't, I think we've had enough swim discussion for the month.