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What conferences will choose the Divisionless Model for 2023?
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Blue_Trombone Offline
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Post: #61
RE: What conferences will choose the Divisionless Model for 2023?
(05-20-2022 02:47 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(05-20-2022 02:41 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(05-20-2022 02:28 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  The Mountain West has decided to scrap Divisions beginning in 2023



I didn't expect this. Gotta think that SDSU, UNLV, Boise State and Utah State are behind this, wanting to play more of their old rivals in the other division. The front range and New Mexico especially wanting to play UNLV and SDSU more frequently.

I think the assumption at this point is that it would be unexpected if any conference *doesn't* remove divisions.

Reports are saying the SBC/MAC don't want it with regional divisions.

https://theathletic.com/3321550/2022/05/...-sun-belt/

They may be forced into it because everyone else is doing it by the end of the decade though.

Why would it matter if everyone else is doing it? Divisionless just affects what schedules are going to be. The Sun Belt can still do a top 2 championship
05-20-2022 03:20 PM
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Crayton Offline
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Post: #62
RE: What conferences will choose the Divisionless Model for 2023?
I think 5-3 is more likely than 3-5. Easier rotation, can keep many current permanent games.
05-20-2022 03:22 PM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #63
RE: What conferences will choose the Divisionless Model for 2023?
(05-20-2022 02:49 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(05-20-2022 02:44 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(05-20-2022 02:42 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(05-18-2022 03:01 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Confirmed are Pac-12 and C-USA. We can probably add the Big 12 since they couldn't agree on it in the first place. The SEC IMHO will likely wait until 2025 when Texas and Oklahoma join.

I think the SBC will keep them, as regional lines are important and embedded part of their design and they have only 2 cross-over games.

ACC should scrap them, but have internal disagreements to overcome.

The B1G will get there, but they are rather deliberate and it might be 2024 before they get that set up.

Not certain on MWC. The division setup makes sense with the Pacific time schools (and Hawaii) in one and the Mountain time schools in the other. It's a fairly natural division, and they haven't had any issue with sending the best teams; it hasn't hurt them.

The MAC absolutely should scrap divisions. They make zero sense for them.

If logic is followed every P5 plus the AAC, CUSA and MAC should scrap divisions, and only the SBC and MWC keep them.

MAC is a conservative conference and might be unwilling to do it for travel reasons. If anything costs a cent more they don't do it. The MAC will probably wait until they are the last conference with a 2 division setup before doing anything.

SBC is in a bind since they increased membership to 14. Even if they tried to protect 5 rivals it wouldn't be enough room for Marshall, JMU, ODU, ASU, Coastal, GSU and Georgia Southern to all play each other.

SEC has talked about creating 4 pods of 4 for scheduling purposes so they'll go away from the 2 division format. XII sets up a 3-5 with 14 teams they might be even more inclined to get back to 14 when UT/OU depart. ACC of course 3-5 would solve a lot of problems for them.

I don't know if its an automatic decision for the B1G to move to a non-division format. They could sit on the idea for a few years before changing. If they add Kansas they could have three divisions of 5 and take the top 2 for a championship game.

I think it's pretty automatic for the Big Ten at this point.

We can go around in circles about why a league will or won't have divisions, but the fact remains that the best chance to make the CFP (whether it's 4 teams or 12 teams) is to have the top 2 teams play in the CCG (and in the case of the G5, it's the best chance to get the NY6 bowl slot).

Does it open the door though for the B1G to add one member that could help them such as Kansas with their elite basketball? Easy win for Nebraska in FB?

No - remember that it’s impossible to have 9 conference games per team with an odd number of members. If the Big Ten wanted KU or any other Big 12 school, they would have been added prior to the current Big Ten TH negotiations (where it’s clear that the league is committing to a 9-game conference schedule for the networks).
05-20-2022 03:22 PM
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Just Joe Offline
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Post: #64
RE: What conferences will choose the Divisionless Model for 2023?
(05-20-2022 02:48 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(05-20-2022 02:28 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  The Mountain West has decided to scrap Divisions beginning in 2023



I didn't expect this. Gotta think that SDSU, UNLV, Boise State and Utah State are behind this, wanting to play more of their old rivals in the other division. The front range and New Mexico especially wanting to play UNLV and SDSU more frequently.

Per the article above, MWC is also likely to move from 8 to 9 conference games.

That feels like a big middle finger to Air Force after the rather open flirting they did with the AAC last year before grudgingly deciding to stay. Typically they play one FCS school and one FBS non-conference in addition to the other academies. This would lock up 11 games a year for them.
05-20-2022 03:23 PM
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Stugray2 Offline
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Post: #65
RE: What conferences will choose the Divisionless Model for 2023?
The SBC is setup for Divisions and they apply to pretty much all sports. Rivalries are contained in divisions (e.g., Marshall-ODU-JMU-App State-Ga Southern are pretty much locked together; Troy-USM-ULL-ULM-Ark State are a tight block) and it's unlikely to impact their CFP chances. So I think they stay.

The MWC moving to a 9 game schedule leads me to think they'll go Pods like the Pac-12. Nobody wants Hawai'i in their rival group, but the California schools would accept it if they can keep each other. Having 3-6 Pod schedule means you'll host the other schools 3 times every 8 years. It also means every school gets a game in California every year, critical for recruiting.

If they stay at 8 games, then I think a 2-6 model would be required. I think it's look like this:

Hawai'i: SJSU, SDSU
SDSU: Hawai'i, Fresno State
SJSU: Hawai'i, Fresno State
Fresno State: SDSU, SJSU // winner in this setup
UNLV: Nevada, New Mexico
Nevada: UNLV, Boise State
Boise State: Utah State, Nevada
Utah State: Boise State, Wyoming
Wyoming: Colorado State, Utah State
Colorado State: Wyoming, Air Force
Air Force: Colorado State, New Mexico
New Mexico: UNLV, Air Force

A Pod based 3-5 is pretty funky, would take 16 years to cycle through evenly.
05-20-2022 03:38 PM
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Stugray2 Offline
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Post: #66
RE: What conferences will choose the Divisionless Model for 2023?
I think the MWC will in the end stay at 8 games. Most of the schools need revenue games and a cheap OOC home game that FCS provide. But they'll talk about a 9 game schedule.

Air Force objection is very possible, since they have Army and Navy build in as OOC.
05-20-2022 03:42 PM
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RamblinRedWolf Offline
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Post: #67
RE: What conferences will choose the Divisionless Model for 2023?
05-20-2022 03:44 PM
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inutech Offline
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Post: #68
RE: What conferences will choose the Divisionless Model for 2023?
It never made sense for the 'belt to drop divisions. Just like it wouldn't have if the 14 team (current as of today) CUSA was going to be around.
05-20-2022 03:59 PM
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HawaiiMongoose Offline
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Post: #69
RE: What conferences will choose the Divisionless Model for 2023?
MWC's official announcement, just for reference:

https://themw.com/news/2022/5/20/mountai...-2023.aspx

"A scheduling model and tiebreaking procedures for future seasons are being finalized and will be announced in the coming weeks."
(This post was last modified: 05-20-2022 05:31 PM by HawaiiMongoose.)
05-20-2022 05:30 PM
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chiefsfan Offline
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Post: #70
RE: What conferences will choose the Divisionless Model for 2023?
(05-20-2022 02:47 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(05-20-2022 02:41 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(05-20-2022 02:28 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  The Mountain West has decided to scrap Divisions beginning in 2023



I didn't expect this. Gotta think that SDSU, UNLV, Boise State and Utah State are behind this, wanting to play more of their old rivals in the other division. The front range and New Mexico especially wanting to play UNLV and SDSU more frequently.

I think the assumption at this point is that it would be unexpected if any conference *doesn't* remove divisions.

Reports are saying the SBC/MAC don't want it with regional divisions.

https://theathletic.com/3321550/2022/05/...-sun-belt/

They may be forced into it because everyone else is doing it by the end of the decade though.

Meh, SBC spent a ton of time in realignment this cycle stressing the importance of keeping the majority of your games within a reasonable distance from your home campus so athletes miss less class time, fans can travel easier, and schools save money. We were never high on the NY6 list anyway, so we're willing to sacrifice a little to help fan support.
05-21-2022 12:02 AM
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BePcr07 Offline
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Post: #71
RE: What conferences will choose the Divisionless Model for 2023?
(05-21-2022 12:02 AM)chiefsfan Wrote:  
(05-20-2022 02:47 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(05-20-2022 02:41 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(05-20-2022 02:28 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  The Mountain West has decided to scrap Divisions beginning in 2023



I didn't expect this. Gotta think that SDSU, UNLV, Boise State and Utah State are behind this, wanting to play more of their old rivals in the other division. The front range and New Mexico especially wanting to play UNLV and SDSU more frequently.

I think the assumption at this point is that it would be unexpected if any conference *doesn't* remove divisions.

Reports are saying the SBC/MAC don't want it with regional divisions.

https://theathletic.com/3321550/2022/05/...-sun-belt/

They may be forced into it because everyone else is doing it by the end of the decade though.

Meh, SBC spent a ton of time in realignment this cycle stressing the importance of keeping the majority of your games within a reasonable distance from your home campus so athletes miss less class time, fans can travel easier, and schools save money. We were never high on the NY6 list anyway, so we're willing to sacrifice a little to help fan support.

I could see the MAC going to a 5 / 3-3 model so the Ohio schools would all play each other regularly which happens today minus Toledo.
05-21-2022 12:21 AM
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SMUstang Offline
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Post: #72
RE: What conferences will choose the Divisionless Model for 2023?
(05-21-2022 12:02 AM)chiefsfan Wrote:  
(05-20-2022 02:47 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(05-20-2022 02:41 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(05-20-2022 02:28 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  The Mountain West has decided to scrap Divisions beginning in 2023



I didn't expect this. Gotta think that SDSU, UNLV, Boise State and Utah State are behind this, wanting to play more of their old rivals in the other division. The front range and New Mexico especially wanting to play UNLV and SDSU more frequently.

I think the assumption at this point is that it would be unexpected if any conference *doesn't* remove divisions.

Reports are saying the SBC/MAC don't want it with regional divisions.

https://theathletic.com/3321550/2022/05/...-sun-belt/

They may be forced into it because everyone else is doing it by the end of the decade though.

Meh, SBC spent a ton of time in realignment this cycle stressing the importance of keeping the majority of your games within a reasonable distance from your home campus so athletes miss less class time, fans can travel easier, and schools save money. We were never high on the NY6 list anyway, so we're willing to sacrifice a little to help fan support.

Good answer, I think that is what made the SWC so great. But others say that is what killed the conference.
(This post was last modified: 05-21-2022 12:46 AM by SMUstang.)
05-21-2022 12:23 AM
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jimrtex Offline
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Post: #73
RE: What conferences will choose the Divisionless Model for 2023?
(05-20-2022 02:47 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(05-20-2022 02:41 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(05-20-2022 02:28 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  The Mountain West has decided to scrap Divisions beginning in 2023



I didn't expect this. Gotta think that SDSU, UNLV, Boise State and Utah State are behind this, wanting to play more of their old rivals in the other division. The front range and New Mexico especially wanting to play UNLV and SDSU more frequently.

I think the assumption at this point is that it would be unexpected if any conference *doesn't* remove divisions.

Reports are saying the SBC/MAC don't want it with regional divisions.

https://theathletic.com/3321550/2022/05/...-sun-belt/

They may be forced into it because everyone else is doing it by the end of the decade though.
If an SBC or MAC team had a chance to get in the CFP they are going to win their division, and it might be better to face a weaker opponent from the opposite division in the CCG.
05-21-2022 05:30 AM
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schmolik Offline
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Post: #74
RE: What conferences will choose the Divisionless Model for 2023?
(05-20-2022 02:47 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(05-20-2022 02:41 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(05-20-2022 02:28 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  The Mountain West has decided to scrap Divisions beginning in 2023



I didn't expect this. Gotta think that SDSU, UNLV, Boise State and Utah State are behind this, wanting to play more of their old rivals in the other division. The front range and New Mexico especially wanting to play UNLV and SDSU more frequently.

I think the assumption at this point is that it would be unexpected if any conference *doesn't* remove divisions.

Reports are saying the SBC/MAC don't want it with regional divisions.

https://theathletic.com/3321550/2022/05/...-sun-belt/

They may be forced into it because everyone else is doing it by the end of the decade though.

I'll bet Toledo would love to get rid of divisions (or move to the East) but would the other Ohio schools and Buffalo want to give up the East Division (or the West Division schools)? Could they just move Miami to the West Division? Would getting rid of divisions be a reasonable compromise?
05-21-2022 08:19 AM
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Porcine Offline
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Post: #75
RE: What conferences will choose the Divisionless Model for 2023?
(05-21-2022 12:23 AM)SMUstang Wrote:  
(05-21-2022 12:02 AM)chiefsfan Wrote:  
(05-20-2022 02:47 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(05-20-2022 02:41 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(05-20-2022 02:28 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  The Mountain West has decided to scrap Divisions beginning in 2023



I didn't expect this. Gotta think that SDSU, UNLV, Boise State and Utah State are behind this, wanting to play more of their old rivals in the other division. The front range and New Mexico especially wanting to play UNLV and SDSU more frequently.

I think the assumption at this point is that it would be unexpected if any conference *doesn't* remove divisions.

Reports are saying the SBC/MAC don't want it with regional divisions.

https://theathletic.com/3321550/2022/05/...-sun-belt/

They may be forced into it because everyone else is doing it by the end of the decade though.

Meh, SBC spent a ton of time in realignment this cycle stressing the importance of keeping the majority of your games within a reasonable distance from your home campus so athletes miss less class time, fans can travel easier, and schools save money. We were never high on the NY6 list anyway, so we're willing to sacrifice a little to help fan support.

Good answer, I think that is what made the SWC so great. But others say that is what killed the conference.

What's old is new again.
05-21-2022 12:20 PM
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SMUstang Offline
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Post: #76
RE: What conferences will choose the Divisionless Model for 2023?
(05-21-2022 12:20 PM)Porcine Wrote:  
(05-21-2022 12:23 AM)SMUstang Wrote:  Meh, SBC spent a ton of time in realignment this cycle stressing the importance of keeping the majority of your games within a reasonable distance from your home campus so athletes miss less class time, fans can travel easier, and schools save money. We were never high on the NY6 list anyway, so we're willing to sacrifice a little to help fan support.

Good answer, I think that is what made the SWC so great. But others say that is what killed the conference.

What's old is new again.

It was really all about money and greed. TV networks wanted and got control. To heck with the fans, rivals, or anything else. It appears that divisionless scheduling might keep teams closer to home and restore some of that.
(This post was last modified: 05-21-2022 02:25 PM by SMUstang.)
05-21-2022 02:20 PM
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templefootballfan Offline
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Post: #77
RE: What conferences will choose the Divisionless Model for 2023?
'15, '17 thru '21.
Pac 12 champ had 2 or 3 loses.
that's what kept them out of playoffs, not divisions
05-21-2022 04:38 PM
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SMUstang Offline
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Post: #78
RE: What conferences will choose the Divisionless Model for 2023?
So far what we know:
The MWC, the ACC, and the PAC are eliminating divisions in 2023. The SBC and the MAC are on the fence. The Big XII and the AAC will probably not restart divisions.

The big question: What are the B1G and the SEC going to do?
(This post was last modified: 05-24-2022 01:13 PM by SMUstang.)
05-24-2022 09:56 AM
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dawgonit Offline
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Post: #79
RE: What conferences will choose the Divisionless Model for 2023?
(05-24-2022 09:56 AM)SMUstang Wrote:  So far what we know:
MWC, the ACC, the PAC and the Big XII are eliminating divisions in 2023. The SBC and the MAC are on the fence.

The MAC is a possibility. I just don't see the SBC doing that. They have stressed how much they look forward to their divisions. They would be the last conference to eliminate divisions IMO.
05-24-2022 10:05 AM
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Michael in Raleigh Offline
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Post: #80
RE: What conferences will choose the Divisionless Model for 2023?
I would be okay if the SB eliminated divisions, yet continued to schedule as though they existed. By that, I mean that I want 6 of the 8 opponents for my school to be against teams that will be in the East division, but if the top two teams are both from the same division, they should be in the championship game.

If the league went divisionless where schools had three annual rivals played five for two years and the remaining five for the next two years, that would defeat a major purpose of the expansion.

I would be concerned if the upcoming scheduling model were replaced where eastern schools are played less often and western schools more often, we would circle back aroumd to the clamoring for the mythical east coast G5 league completely separate from the Sun Belt West.

Eastern schools want to play eastern schools, and Western schools want to play western schools. That's what they're getting, all while maintaining under one conference umbrella. Pretty much everyone is thrilled about it. The league has to be careful how it approaches things.
05-25-2022 12:10 PM
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