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Thamel: Forget NIL -- these are the real issues college leaders need to solve
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Big 12 fan too Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Thamel: Forget NIL -- these are the real issues college leaders need to solve
(05-13-2022 05:36 PM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  The SEC vs Alliance Title game is an interesting idea and probably one the SEC should push for.

I like the P2, SEC vs BIG. Good vs evil.

Even better if it comes from a civil war within the top of college football, with some ideological hate. Maybe a cold war in which they don’t play each other and they’re in different entities for a year or two.

Then when the BIG/Fox capitulate to SEC/ESPN, the hate would be fun. The matchups between conferences added theater
05-13-2022 05:59 PM
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Wedge Offline
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RE: Thamel: Forget NIL -- these are the real issues college leaders need to solve
(05-13-2022 05:54 PM)Big 12 fan too Wrote:  
(05-13-2022 05:46 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
Quote:Forget shiny new facilities and weight rooms. The Big Ten and SEC should be finding ways to leverage revenues that project to be as much as double that of their peers in a few years to distance themselves on the field. The other power leagues should be using brain power to find creative ways to keep up.

There is only one way for the Big Ten and SEC to use their TV money "to distance themselves": Use those millions to pay the best football and basketball players, instead of only using it to make the coaches and ADs multi-millionaires or to put an HDTV in every locker and a water slide behind the practice field.

NIL is a band-aid. If you leave player compensation to the boosters, that billionaire booster at Miami can outbid Florida's boosters. Why should Florida let that happen when they have $50 million more than Miami in annual athletic revenue? If you're running an SEC or Big Ten program, the real "bang for the buck" is in cutting off big slices of that TV money and serving them up to 5-star recruits.

Agree, although it’s not that hard to work the TV money to donors/NIL.
I mean, they could just simply make it known to their donors to make their current gifts to the NIL fund, rather than the school If they refused, it could still be redirected depending on how comf

That's not enough.

If they leave player compensation to the boosters, and only spend TV money on salaries for the "adults" and new facilities for the "olympic sports", then, no matter how they structure NIL pools, they are not taking advantage of their excess TV money. If it's left to boosters, they're leaving too much opportunity for Oregon, USC, Miami, and other teams outside the SEC and Big Ten where there are super-wealthy boosters willing to pay the players.

Further, the teams inside the Big Ten and SEC that don't have Ohio State/Texas level of booster generosity will really lose out if player payment is left to NIL/boosters and they can't use their mountains of TV cash to help them acquire better football and basketball players.
05-13-2022 06:21 PM
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esayem Offline
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RE: Thamel: Forget NIL -- these are the real issues college leaders need to solve
… and Maryland will still suck
05-13-2022 06:29 PM
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esayem Offline
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RE: Thamel: Forget NIL -- these are the real issues college leaders need to solve
I’d love to see them use their massive tv revenue money to pay a guy that then sits out their bowl game or playoff appearance. Nobody has yet proven where more tv rev = a higher success rate. At this point it’s just windbag speculation.

But of course nobody wants to make less than others, especially the pathetic programs littering the bottom of the Big Ten.
05-13-2022 06:33 PM
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Post: #25
RE: Thamel: Forget NIL -- these are the real issues college leaders need to solve
(05-13-2022 06:33 PM)esayem Wrote:  Nobody has yet proven where more tv rev = a higher success rate.

(that's because there isn't)

[Image: 76444678.jpg]
05-13-2022 06:43 PM
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Big 12 fan too Offline
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RE: Thamel: Forget NIL -- these are the real issues college leaders need to solve
(05-13-2022 06:21 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(05-13-2022 05:54 PM)Big 12 fan too Wrote:  
(05-13-2022 05:46 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
Quote:Forget shiny new facilities and weight rooms. The Big Ten and SEC should be finding ways to leverage revenues that project to be as much as double that of their peers in a few years to distance themselves on the field. The other power leagues should be using brain power to find creative ways to keep up.

There is only one way for the Big Ten and SEC to use their TV money "to distance themselves": Use those millions to pay the best football and basketball players, instead of only using it to make the coaches and ADs multi-millionaires or to put an HDTV in every locker and a water slide behind the practice field.

NIL is a band-aid. If you leave player compensation to the boosters, that billionaire booster at Miami can outbid Florida's boosters. Why should Florida let that happen when they have $50 million more than Miami in annual athletic revenue? If you're running an SEC or Big Ten program, the real "bang for the buck" is in cutting off big slices of that TV money and serving them up to 5-star recruits.

Agree, although it’s not that hard to work the TV money to donors/NIL.
I mean, they could just simply make it known to their donors to make their current gifts to the NIL fund, rather than the school If they refused, it could still be redirected depending on how comf

That's not enough.

If they leave player compensation to the boosters, and only spend TV money on salaries for the "adults" and new facilities for the "olympic sports", then, no matter how they structure NIL pools, they are not taking advantage of their excess TV money. If it's left to boosters, they're leaving too much opportunity for Oregon, USC, Miami, and other teams outside the SEC and Big Ten where there are super-wealthy boosters willing to pay the players.

Further, the teams inside the Big Ten and SEC that don't have Ohio State/Texas level of booster generosity will really lose out if player payment is left to NIL/boosters and they can't use their mountains of TV cash to help them acquire better football and basketball players.

I’m not sure I follow.
It can easily be one-to-one transfer. And the market will demand it. We’ve been getting around rules for player compensation for a century. NIL rules won’t stop TV money from all going to the most valuable input.
05-13-2022 07:54 PM
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Post: #27
RE: Thamel: Forget NIL -- these are the real issues college leaders need to solve
(05-13-2022 06:33 PM)esayem Wrote:  I’d love to see them use their massive tv revenue money to pay a guy that then sits out their bowl game or playoff appearance. Nobody has yet proven where more tv rev = a higher success rate. At this point it’s just windbag speculation.

But of course nobody wants to make less than others, especially the pathetic programs littering the bottom of the Big Ten.

Lol, the new “recruiting rankings don’t matter” soapbox.


Which pro team does better, the one spending $50 million on players, or the one spending $1 million?
05-13-2022 07:57 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Thamel: Forget NIL -- these are the real issues college leaders need to solve
There are teams in the two conferences that are being paid way too much than what their on the field/court performance shows. This conference model sucks. Schools that are not in a P5 like Boise State, San Diego State, Fresno State, UNR, UCF, SMU, Houston, Memphis, Cincinnati, Marshall, Navy, App State etc deserves to be paid more than schools like Kansas, Nebraska, Rutgers, Oregon State, Washington State, Vanderbilt, Maryland, BC, Syracuse, Wake Forest and Duke.
05-13-2022 08:08 PM
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BewareThePhog Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Thamel: Forget NIL -- these are the real issues college leaders need to solve
Some legitimate questions and issues to be sure. I’m also not naive enough to think that the playing field has always been truly level, or that there’s not a point where the traditional benefits for players isn’t compensation enough given the overall resources spent on this arena.

But I also think that at some point, there’s a significant risk that a lot of fans will just say “screw it, I’d rather just watch the best athletes in the pros” and leave college sports behind. The salary cap brings some semblance of competitive balance to the NFL for example. That doesn’t mean that the Lions aren’t likely gonna suck (they are, after all, the Lions), but at least they aren’t at some massive structural disadvantage like everyone outside the top 2 conferences may be at some point.
05-13-2022 08:47 PM
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Wedge Offline
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RE: Thamel: Forget NIL -- these are the real issues college leaders need to solve
(05-13-2022 06:33 PM)esayem Wrote:  I’d love to see them use their massive tv revenue money to pay a guy that then sits out their bowl game or playoff appearance. Nobody has yet proven where more tv rev = a higher success rate. At this point it’s just windbag speculation.

But of course nobody wants to make less than others, especially the pathetic programs littering the bottom of the Big Ten.

It's not the bottom of those conferences to be concerned about. The bottom teams can't lure elite players with only money until after they win their share of games against Ohio State and other kingpins. The top recruits will have multiple options and can get paid by better teams.

It's the "upper middle class" (as well as the upper class) in the Big Ten and SEC who could successfully use media money to outbid the top teams in other leagues, because they can convince elite recruits that they can win. Teams like Wisconsin and Auburn, not Northwestern and Vanderbilt.

And you're right that more TV revenue has yet to be proven to translate directly to more wins -- that's because teams with a huge edge in TV revenue have yet to use that extra money to get better players by paying them.
05-13-2022 08:49 PM
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Post: #31
RE: Thamel: Forget NIL -- these are the real issues college leaders need to solve
Is Clemson better off going 12-0 in the acc but making $50 million or 8-4 in the SEC and making $100 million ? Money isn’t everything
05-13-2022 09:53 PM
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RE: Thamel: Forget NIL -- these are the real issues college leaders need to solve
(05-13-2022 09:53 PM)bluesox Wrote:  Is Clemson better off going 12-0 in the acc but making $50 million or 8-4 in the SEC and making $100 million ? Money isn’t everything
How many 3 loss SEC teams are ahead of the tweener conference champ?

And why are these the only options?

Is Clemson better post Dabo in an ACC division of the SEC making $110 million or in the ACC going 8-4 and falling behind regional peers and without the money to catch up?


In the expanded playoffs, the chance of CFP won’t be materially different than now for Clemson
05-13-2022 10:04 PM
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Post: #33
RE: Thamel: Forget NIL -- these are the real issues college leaders need to solve
(05-13-2022 09:53 PM)bluesox Wrote:  Is Clemson better off going 12-0 in the acc but making $50 million or 8-4 in the SEC and making $100 million ? Money isn’t everything

Ask your wife or your accountant
05-13-2022 10:09 PM
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RE: Thamel: Forget NIL -- these are the real issues college leaders need to solve
(05-13-2022 03:27 PM)Hokie4Skins Wrote:  https://www.espn.com/college-football/st...need-solve

Forget shiny new facilities and weight rooms. The Big Ten and SEC should be finding ways to leverage revenues that project to be as much as double that of their peers in a few years to distance themselves on the field. The other power leagues should be using brain power to find creative ways to keep up. in the mid-2020s, Navigate Research projects that each Big Ten and SEC school will be making in the neighborhood of $100 million in league payouts and the next three leagues -- ACC, Big 12 and Pac 12 -- will be taking in about half that.

We've always heard about conferences if they had to pick trade exposure over money. All of the FBS TV deals for the most part push exposure to the forefront.

If then exposure is significant with the AAC/SBC having ABC TV windows what does it mean for sponsorships? It may be that players from the Top 3 in those conferences get some bangin' sponsorship dollars from that exposure.

In UFC where most of the fighters make more money from sponsorship than the actual fights themselves is a good case study. Different roads to the "gold"

1) Main event money. If you can get ranked in the Top 10 or above you've got a chance to star in a main event for 300k+ instead of the normal 30k per fight.

2) Becoming a PPV draw. There are fighters that are picking up elevated main event and PPV money just because they are popular than more so than really a challenger for their weight class.

3) Hype machines. Most of these fighters realize they are not that great, do not want to challenge for a title yet realize they can game the system fighting cans, build a following and still get a seven figure sponsorship deal.

With college sports keep in mind that already athletic department valuations vary from high ticket sale/donor models to massive corporate sponsorships and all points in between.

Will we see stuff like a really good player from Chicago or Boston wanting to stay home at Northwestern or BC because they are a local star and it plays big in that market as far as sponsorships go? Will going to the program that gives you the best chance at winning a championship be the one that gives you the most money? It may get complicated this way before the college sports industry figures out how to manage it.
(This post was last modified: 05-14-2022 12:02 AM by Kit-Cat.)
05-14-2022 12:00 AM
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Post: #35
RE: Thamel: Forget NIL -- these are the real issues college leaders need to solve
(05-13-2022 06:33 PM)esayem Wrote:  I’d love to see them use their massive tv revenue money to pay a guy that then sits out their bowl game or playoff appearance. Nobody has yet proven where more tv rev = a higher success rate. At this point it’s just windbag speculation.

But of course nobody wants to make less than others, especially the pathetic programs littering the bottom of the Big Ten.

You, in particular, keep saying this. But the reality is we really haven't seen it yet. If I'm making $35 million a year and you're making $45 million a year, yeah there's a discrepancy, but we're still playing in the same ball park. But if I'm making $40 million a year and you're making $90 million a year, we're not even playing on the same planet.
05-14-2022 05:54 AM
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RE: Thamel: Forget NIL -- these are the real issues college leaders need to solve
Now the ACC, P12 and B12 are starting to understand how G5 schools have felt ever since the money divide first started in CFB.

Only in our case, it's not 100% difference ($100M vs. $50M). It's many times more, at best right now, $35M to $7M.

Not saying anything can or will be done about it, just acknowledging it has existed in some form since CFB regained its TV rights.

Nobody ever worried about the G5 falling behind, even though it is half of D1.
(This post was last modified: 05-14-2022 10:26 AM by TripleA.)
05-14-2022 10:22 AM
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RE: Thamel: Forget NIL -- these are the real issues college leaders need to solve
(05-14-2022 10:22 AM)TripleA Wrote:  Now the ACC, P12 and B12 are starting to understand how G5 schools have felt ever since the money divide first started in CFB.

Only in our case, it's not 100% difference ($100M vs. $50M). It's many times more, at best right now, $35M to $7M.

Not saying anything can or will be done about it, just acknowledging it has existed in some form since CFB regained its TV rights.

Nobody ever worried about the G5 falling behind, even though it is half of D1.
I don't think any level has inexperience with how damaging the disparity will be because it has never been easier to pay players and transfer.

The G5 may have been more multiples less, but $50 million delta is more meaningful than your example of a $28 million delta for G5. We all have the same inputs to choose from.

$7 million is 7x more than $1 million (hypothetical low G5), but I'd wouldn't say that the low major G5 is at a bigger disadvantage to the American G5, than the American is to the P5, despite the American only being 5x less than P5.
05-14-2022 11:50 AM
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Post: #38
RE: Thamel: Forget NIL -- these are the real issues college leaders need to solve
(05-13-2022 07:57 PM)Big 12 fan too Wrote:  
(05-13-2022 06:33 PM)esayem Wrote:  I’d love to see them use their massive tv revenue money to pay a guy that then sits out their bowl game or playoff appearance. Nobody has yet proven where more tv rev = a higher success rate. At this point it’s just windbag speculation.

But of course nobody wants to make less than others, especially the pathetic programs littering the bottom of the Big Ten.

Lol, the new “recruiting rankings don’t matter” soapbox.


Which pro team does better, the one spending $50 million on players, or the one spending $1 million?

Carolina and Miami had great recruiting classes. What are your thoughts there?

To answer your question, small ball mean anything to you? In the end, it’s a game.
05-14-2022 12:19 PM
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RE: Thamel: Forget NIL -- these are the real issues college leaders need to solve
(05-13-2022 06:21 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(05-13-2022 05:54 PM)Big 12 fan too Wrote:  
(05-13-2022 05:46 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
Quote:Forget shiny new facilities and weight rooms. The Big Ten and SEC should be finding ways to leverage revenues that project to be as much as double that of their peers in a few years to distance themselves on the field. The other power leagues should be using brain power to find creative ways to keep up.

There is only one way for the Big Ten and SEC to use their TV money "to distance themselves": Use those millions to pay the best football and basketball players, instead of only using it to make the coaches and ADs multi-millionaires or to put an HDTV in every locker and a water slide behind the practice field.

NIL is a band-aid. If you leave player compensation to the boosters, that billionaire booster at Miami can outbid Florida's boosters. Why should Florida let that happen when they have $50 million more than Miami in annual athletic revenue? If you're running an SEC or Big Ten program, the real "bang for the buck" is in cutting off big slices of that TV money and serving them up to 5-star recruits.

Agree, although it’s not that hard to work the TV money to donors/NIL.
I mean, they could just simply make it known to their donors to make their current gifts to the NIL fund, rather than the school If they refused, it could still be redirected depending on how comf

That's not enough.

If they leave player compensation to the boosters, and only spend TV money on salaries for the "adults" and new facilities for the "olympic sports", then, no matter how they structure NIL pools, they are not taking advantage of their excess TV money. If it's left to boosters, they're leaving too much opportunity for Oregon, USC, Miami, and other teams outside the SEC and Big Ten where there are super-wealthy boosters willing to pay the players.

Further, the teams inside the Big Ten and SEC that don't have Ohio State/Texas level of booster generosity will really lose out if player payment is left to NIL/boosters and they can't use their mountains of TV cash to help them acquire better football and basketball players.

While it may be true that higher TV revenue didn't translate to on field success in the past, to the extent that it funds higher player compensation in the future I'm willing to bet there will be significant correlation with on field success. Coaching will still matter, but in the end talent will matter more.
05-14-2022 01:10 PM
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Wedge Offline
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RE: Thamel: Forget NIL -- these are the real issues college leaders need to solve
(05-14-2022 01:10 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(05-13-2022 06:21 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(05-13-2022 05:54 PM)Big 12 fan too Wrote:  
(05-13-2022 05:46 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
Quote:Forget shiny new facilities and weight rooms. The Big Ten and SEC should be finding ways to leverage revenues that project to be as much as double that of their peers in a few years to distance themselves on the field. The other power leagues should be using brain power to find creative ways to keep up.

There is only one way for the Big Ten and SEC to use their TV money "to distance themselves": Use those millions to pay the best football and basketball players, instead of only using it to make the coaches and ADs multi-millionaires or to put an HDTV in every locker and a water slide behind the practice field.

NIL is a band-aid. If you leave player compensation to the boosters, that billionaire booster at Miami can outbid Florida's boosters. Why should Florida let that happen when they have $50 million more than Miami in annual athletic revenue? If you're running an SEC or Big Ten program, the real "bang for the buck" is in cutting off big slices of that TV money and serving them up to 5-star recruits.

Agree, although it’s not that hard to work the TV money to donors/NIL.
I mean, they could just simply make it known to their donors to make their current gifts to the NIL fund, rather than the school If they refused, it could still be redirected depending on how comf

That's not enough.

If they leave player compensation to the boosters, and only spend TV money on salaries for the "adults" and new facilities for the "olympic sports", then, no matter how they structure NIL pools, they are not taking advantage of their excess TV money. If it's left to boosters, they're leaving too much opportunity for Oregon, USC, Miami, and other teams outside the SEC and Big Ten where there are super-wealthy boosters willing to pay the players.

Further, the teams inside the Big Ten and SEC that don't have Ohio State/Texas level of booster generosity will really lose out if player payment is left to NIL/boosters and they can't use their mountains of TV cash to help them acquire better football and basketball players.

While it may be true that higher TV revenue didn't translate to on field success in the past, to the extent that it funds higher player compensation in the future I'm willing to bet there will be significant correlation with on field success. Coaching will still matter, but in the end talent will matter more.

Right. They have to use the extra TV money to pay players, and thus monopolize the pool of elite talent, if they want to take full advantage of the gap in revenue. Having wealthier coaches and more deluxe training facilities is nice, but not enough to create an almost-insurmountable competitive edge.
05-14-2022 01:21 PM
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