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From A Cuse Fan (Split of athletic models)
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TexanMark Offline
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From A Cuse Fan (Split of athletic models)
Take this as 3rd hand info but this comes from a Massachusetts based Cuse fan from a contact at BC.

University President's of some of the most prestigious schools are developing a contingency plan. They will be in some sort of "consortium that emphasize sports and academics within a college framework". This is their nuclear option if the SEC Pro model continues to spiral out of control.

BC, UNC, Duke, Stanford, ND, Northwestern, and Syracuse are some of the schools. The Alliance does have legs it appears. No mention of USC or Miami? No idea if other state schools are involved.

What it tells me (if true) some schools will be fine going to a super Ivy League model.
(This post was last modified: 05-11-2022 11:14 AM by TexanMark.)
05-11-2022 10:58 AM
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constance Offline
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RE: From A Cuse Fan
(05-11-2022 10:58 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  Take this as 3rd hand info but this comes from a contact at BC.

University President's of some of the most prestigious schools are developing a contingency plan. They will be in some sort of consortium that emphasize sports and academics within college framework. This is their nuclear option if the SEC Pro model continues to spiral out of control.

BC, UNC, Duke, Stanford, ND, Northwestern, and Syracuse are some of the schools. The Alliance does have legs it appears. No mention of USC or Miami? No idea if other state schools are involved.

What it tells me (if true) some schools will be fine going to a super Ivy League model.

There already is a Big conference
05-11-2022 11:01 AM
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PeteTheChop Online
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RE: From A Cuse Fan
(05-11-2022 10:58 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  Take this as 3rd hand info but this comes from a contact at BC.

University President's of some of the most prestigious schools are developing a contingency plan. They will be in some sort of consortium that emphasize sports and academics within college framework.

BC, UNC, Duke, Stanford, ND, Northwestern, and Syracuse are some of the schools. The Alliance does have legs it appears. No mention of USC or Miami? No idea if other state schools are involved.

What it tells me (if true) some schools will be fine going to a super Ivy League model.

Hate to burst the your contact's bubble, but this idea with these schools ain't ever making it outside the ivory tower
05-11-2022 11:08 AM
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TexanMark Offline
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RE: From A Cuse Fan
(05-11-2022 11:08 AM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  
(05-11-2022 10:58 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  Take this as 3rd hand info but this comes from a contact at BC.

University President's of some of the most prestigious schools are developing a contingency plan. They will be in some sort of consortium that emphasize sports and academics within college framework.

BC, UNC, Duke, Stanford, ND, Northwestern, and Syracuse are some of the schools. The Alliance does have legs it appears. No mention of USC or Miami? No idea if other state schools are involved.

What it tells me (if true) some schools will be fine going to a super Ivy League model.

Hate to burst the your contact's bubble, but this idea with these schools ain't ever making it outside the ivory tower

Pete I tend to agree with you...however, just the threat might be enough to bring some sanity to the NIL and portal chaos.
05-11-2022 11:10 AM
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RE: From A Cuse Fan
One bright side for UNC fans, though: LOTS of discounted season tickets will be available in late August.
(This post was last modified: 05-11-2022 11:22 AM by PeteTheChop.)
05-11-2022 11:11 AM
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TexanMark Offline
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RE: From A Cuse Fan (Split of athletic models)
(05-11-2022 11:11 AM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  One bright side for UNC fans, though: LOTS of discounted season tickets will be available in late August.

There already are 03-lmfao
05-11-2022 11:13 AM
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RE: From A Cuse Fan
(05-11-2022 11:10 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  Pete I tend to agree with you...however, just the threat might be enough to bring some sanity to the NIL and portal chaos.

Yeah, I knew someone smart enough to reside in the Great State of North Florida isn't falling for the pie in the sky 04-cheers

I do agree trial balloons are being floated as "P-5" schools try to establish some sort of middle ground between what the NCAA rules used to be and whatever it is Texas A&M and others are doing right now.

It is and will remain a bumpy road for the near future, but College Sports Revenue is way too large of an industry to not find some sort of consensus that keeps the train on the track
(This post was last modified: 05-11-2022 11:21 AM by PeteTheChop.)
05-11-2022 11:21 AM
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random asian guy Offline
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RE: From A Cuse Fan (Split of athletic models)
(05-11-2022 10:58 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  Take this as 3rd hand info but this comes from a Massachusetts based Cuse fan from a contact at BC.

University President's of some of the most prestigious schools are developing a contingency plan. They will be in some sort of "consortium that emphasize sports and academics within a college framework". This is their nuclear option if the SEC Pro model continues to spiral out of control.

BC, UNC, Duke, Stanford, ND, Northwestern, and Syracuse are some of the schools. The Alliance does have legs it appears. No mention of USC or Miami? No idea if other state schools are involved.

What it tells me (if true) some schools will be fine going to a super Ivy League model.

I believe it. This is consistent with the Swarbrick’s interview. Doesn’t mean the pro model is going to happen but it’s certainly a possibility. To me it’s only credibile breakaway scenario.
05-11-2022 11:23 AM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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RE: From A Cuse Fan (Split of athletic models)
(05-11-2022 11:10 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  
(05-11-2022 11:08 AM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  
(05-11-2022 10:58 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  Take this as 3rd hand info but this comes from a contact at BC.

University President's of some of the most prestigious schools are developing a contingency plan. They will be in some sort of consortium that emphasize sports and academics within college framework.

BC, UNC, Duke, Stanford, ND, Northwestern, and Syracuse are some of the schools. The Alliance does have legs it appears. No mention of USC or Miami? No idea if other state schools are involved.

What it tells me (if true) some schools will be fine going to a super Ivy League model.

Hate to burst the your contact's bubble, but this idea with these schools ain't ever making it outside the ivory tower

Pete I tend to agree with you...however, just the threat might be enough to bring some sanity to the NIL and portal chaos.

I doubt it.

All of these schools seem to want their cake and eat it, too.

It's easy for all of these schools to bemoan that NIL, the transfer portal and other changes in college sports are negatively impacting their respective academic missions.

However, what's not easy for all of these schools is no longer seeing their football and/or basketball games in prime slots on major TV networks while making tens of millions of dollars per year from their respective conferences. That's what would happen if they become a lower tier version of college sports compared to the "SEC pro model" that you've mentioned here.

If these schools are truly and legitimately fine with the latter (the direct loss of money and exposure by downgrading sports), then more power to them. I don't buy that will happen at all, though - not Stanford, not ND, not Duke, not anyone that's currently in a P5 league. Call me crazy, but unilaterally downgrading money and prestige (which is conferred with P5 membership) isn't something that really wealthy and prestigious schools actively choose to do in anything that they participate in, which would include sports.
05-11-2022 11:24 AM
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Big 12 fan too Offline
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RE: From A Cuse Fan (Split of athletic models)
(05-11-2022 11:24 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(05-11-2022 11:10 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  
(05-11-2022 11:08 AM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  
(05-11-2022 10:58 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  Take this as 3rd hand info but this comes from a contact at BC.

University President's of some of the most prestigious schools are developing a contingency plan. They will be in some sort of consortium that emphasize sports and academics within college framework.

BC, UNC, Duke, Stanford, ND, Northwestern, and Syracuse are some of the schools. The Alliance does have legs it appears. No mention of USC or Miami? No idea if other state schools are involved.

What it tells me (if true) some schools will be fine going to a super Ivy League model.

Hate to burst the your contact's bubble, but this idea with these schools ain't ever making it outside the ivory tower

Pete I tend to agree with you...however, just the threat might be enough to bring some sanity to the NIL and portal chaos.

I doubt it.

All of these schools seem to want their cake and eat it, too.

It's easy for all of these schools to bemoan that NIL, the transfer portal and other changes in college sports are negatively impacting their respective academic missions.

However, what's not easy for all of these schools is no longer seeing their football and/or basketball games in prime slots on major TV networks while making tens of millions of dollars per year from their respective conferences. That's what would happen if they become a lower tier version of college sports compared to the "SEC pro model" that you've mentioned here.

If these schools are truly and legitimately fine with the latter (the direct loss of money and exposure by downgrading sports), then more power to them. I don't buy that will happen at all, though - not Stanford, not ND, not Duke, not anyone that's currently in a P5 league. Call me crazy, but unilaterally downgrading money and prestige (which is conferred with P5 membership) isn't something that really wealthy and prestigious schools actively choose to do in anything that they participate in, which would include sports.

Right.

It’s rare that decision makers and stakeholders willingly reduce their salaries, layoff friends, introduce default risk, destroy brands that took decades to build, and harm local communities (and tax payers for public’s).

It’s common to soapbox and virtue signal to maintain or improve brand when there’s no risk. It’s also worth a chance to try to leverage it shaping the end result solution to be more favorable. But when the time comes, let’s see these AD and presidents actually jump down. The carnage would be entertaining.

There’s also the aspect of Johnson vs NCAA. You can’t opt out and it’s unlikely any semblance of the current model an option to stay in. An Ivy model in which there’s zero compensation even more non compliant.

So, it’s in the magnitude of compensation and rules applied to enforcing students. We don’t police regular student transfers or even top student enrollment efforts because those students aren’t valuable to the university. It’s not the collegial model they’re after, it’s a more restrictive CBA.

Willingly being AA baseball instead of majors will last about 5 years before they realize they were just yelling to get off the lawn.
(This post was last modified: 05-11-2022 11:45 AM by Big 12 fan too.)
05-11-2022 11:43 AM
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RE: From A Cuse Fan (Split of athletic models)
(05-11-2022 11:43 AM)Big 12 fan too Wrote:  It’s rare that decision makers and stakeholders willingly reduce their salaries, layoff friends, introduce default risk, destroy brands that took decades to build, and harm local communities (and tax payers for public’s).

It’s common to soapbox and virtue signal to maintain or improve brand when there’s no risk. It’s also worth a chance to try to leverage it shaping the end result solution to be more favorable. But when the time comes, let’s see these AD and presidents actually jump down. The carnage would be entertaining.

Bravo!

04-clap2
(This post was last modified: 05-11-2022 11:52 AM by PeteTheChop.)
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RE: From A Cuse Fan (Split of athletic models)
(05-11-2022 10:58 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  Take this as 3rd hand info but this comes from a Massachusetts based Cuse fan from a contact at BC.

University President's of some of the most prestigious schools are developing a contingency plan. They will be in some sort of "consortium that emphasize sports and academics within a college framework". This is their nuclear option if the SEC Pro model continues to spiral out of control.

BC, UNC, Duke, Stanford, ND, Northwestern, and Syracuse are some of the schools. The Alliance does have legs it appears. No mention of USC or Miami? No idea if other state schools are involved.

What it tells me (if true) some schools will be fine going to a super Ivy League model.

Some of those might be fine with, let's call it a "1950 college football model".

But there's no way in hell that the big donors at Notre Dame and USC will put up with downgrading "their" football teams like that. They'll limit their football schedules to BC/Duke/etc. every year while Ohio State, Michigan, and Alabama battle it out in the top level of the sport, the only level a large number of fans care about? Not a chance.
05-11-2022 12:04 PM
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RE: From A Cuse Fan (Split of athletic models)
(05-11-2022 11:24 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(05-11-2022 11:10 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  
(05-11-2022 11:08 AM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  
(05-11-2022 10:58 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  Take this as 3rd hand info but this comes from a contact at BC.

University President's of some of the most prestigious schools are developing a contingency plan. They will be in some sort of consortium that emphasize sports and academics within college framework.

BC, UNC, Duke, Stanford, ND, Northwestern, and Syracuse are some of the schools. The Alliance does have legs it appears. No mention of USC or Miami? No idea if other state schools are involved.

What it tells me (if true) some schools will be fine going to a super Ivy League model.

Hate to burst the your contact's bubble, but this idea with these schools ain't ever making it outside the ivory tower

Pete I tend to agree with you...however, just the threat might be enough to bring some sanity to the NIL and portal chaos.

I doubt it.

All of these schools seem to want their cake and eat it, too.

It's easy for all of these schools to bemoan that NIL, the transfer portal and other changes in college sports are negatively impacting their respective academic missions.

However, what's not easy for all of these schools is no longer seeing their football and/or basketball games in prime slots on major TV networks while making tens of millions of dollars per year from their respective conferences. That's what would happen if they become a lower tier version of college sports compared to the "SEC pro model" that you've mentioned here.

If these schools are truly and legitimately fine with the latter (the direct loss of money and exposure by downgrading sports), then more power to them. I don't buy that will happen at all, though - not Stanford, not ND, not Duke, not anyone that's currently in a P5 league. Call me crazy, but unilaterally downgrading money and prestige (which is conferred with P5 membership) isn't something that really wealthy and prestigious schools actively choose to do in anything that they participate in, which would include sports.

Totally understand that but what's the breaking point?
Ex: School earns $40m/year from TV and pays $400m/year of NIL.
Is this a business proposition you would go forward with?

Example seems dumb but NIL is spiraling out of control.
Bama and OSU paid $1m/yr to QBs that added no $ value to their teams/schools in 2021. If Young and Stroud weren't on the team would the schools not receive the TV money? Would the fans not show up to games? They were simply paid to choose those schools to play for. So paying the 7th string OL $40m/yr doesnt seem like the best business move but the market may dictate it.
(This post was last modified: 05-11-2022 12:19 PM by Scoochpooch1.)
05-11-2022 12:18 PM
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RE: From A Cuse Fan (Split of athletic models)
(05-11-2022 12:18 PM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  
(05-11-2022 11:24 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(05-11-2022 11:10 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  
(05-11-2022 11:08 AM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  
(05-11-2022 10:58 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  Take this as 3rd hand info but this comes from a contact at BC.

University President's of some of the most prestigious schools are developing a contingency plan. They will be in some sort of consortium that emphasize sports and academics within college framework.

BC, UNC, Duke, Stanford, ND, Northwestern, and Syracuse are some of the schools. The Alliance does have legs it appears. No mention of USC or Miami? No idea if other state schools are involved.

What it tells me (if true) some schools will be fine going to a super Ivy League model.

Hate to burst the your contact's bubble, but this idea with these schools ain't ever making it outside the ivory tower

Pete I tend to agree with you...however, just the threat might be enough to bring some sanity to the NIL and portal chaos.

I doubt it.

All of these schools seem to want their cake and eat it, too.

It's easy for all of these schools to bemoan that NIL, the transfer portal and other changes in college sports are negatively impacting their respective academic missions.

However, what's not easy for all of these schools is no longer seeing their football and/or basketball games in prime slots on major TV networks while making tens of millions of dollars per year from their respective conferences. That's what would happen if they become a lower tier version of college sports compared to the "SEC pro model" that you've mentioned here.

If these schools are truly and legitimately fine with the latter (the direct loss of money and exposure by downgrading sports), then more power to them. I don't buy that will happen at all, though - not Stanford, not ND, not Duke, not anyone that's currently in a P5 league. Call me crazy, but unilaterally downgrading money and prestige (which is conferred with P5 membership) isn't something that really wealthy and prestigious schools actively choose to do in anything that they participate in, which would include sports.

Totally understand that but what's the breaking point?
Ex: School earns $40m/year from TV and pays $400m/year of NIL.
Is this a business proposition you would go forward with?

Example seems dumb but NIL is spiraling out of control.
Bama and OSU paid $1m/yr to QBs that added no $ value to their teams/schools in 2021. If Young and Stroud weren't on the team would the schools not receive the TV money? Would the fans not show up to games? They were simply paid to choose those schools to play for. So paying the 7th string OL $40m/yr doesnt seem like the best business move but the market may dictate it.

The school doesn't pay NIL in the first place. This is third party money. That's the first mistake that so many posts seem to make. No school should care whatsoever how much NIL money their players are receiving (and if anything, ought to be encouraging it so it disincentivizes those players from seeking more direct compensation from the schools themselves). A school earning $40 million from TV while their roster is receiving $400 million in NIL compensation is a school that's earning $40 million from TV while paying $0 in NIL compensation (with a lot of happy players that aren't trying to get money directly from the schools). That's essentially the best deal ever for the schools.
(This post was last modified: 05-11-2022 12:26 PM by Frank the Tank.)
05-11-2022 12:26 PM
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RE: From A Cuse Fan (Split of athletic models)
(05-11-2022 12:26 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(05-11-2022 12:18 PM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  
(05-11-2022 11:24 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(05-11-2022 11:10 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  
(05-11-2022 11:08 AM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  Hate to burst the your contact's bubble, but this idea with these schools ain't ever making it outside the ivory tower

Pete I tend to agree with you...however, just the threat might be enough to bring some sanity to the NIL and portal chaos.

I doubt it.

All of these schools seem to want their cake and eat it, too.

It's easy for all of these schools to bemoan that NIL, the transfer portal and other changes in college sports are negatively impacting their respective academic missions.

However, what's not easy for all of these schools is no longer seeing their football and/or basketball games in prime slots on major TV networks while making tens of millions of dollars per year from their respective conferences. That's what would happen if they become a lower tier version of college sports compared to the "SEC pro model" that you've mentioned here.

If these schools are truly and legitimately fine with the latter (the direct loss of money and exposure by downgrading sports), then more power to them. I don't buy that will happen at all, though - not Stanford, not ND, not Duke, not anyone that's currently in a P5 league. Call me crazy, but unilaterally downgrading money and prestige (which is conferred with P5 membership) isn't something that really wealthy and prestigious schools actively choose to do in anything that they participate in, which would include sports.

Totally understand that but what's the breaking point?
Ex: School earns $40m/year from TV and pays $400m/year of NIL.
Is this a business proposition you would go forward with?

Example seems dumb but NIL is spiraling out of control.
Bama and OSU paid $1m/yr to QBs that added no $ value to their teams/schools in 2021. If Young and Stroud weren't on the team would the schools not receive the TV money? Would the fans not show up to games? They were simply paid to choose those schools to play for. So paying the 7th string OL $40m/yr doesnt seem like the best business move but the market may dictate it.

The school doesn't pay NIL in the first place. This is third party money. That's the first mistake that so many posts seem to make. No school should care whatsoever how much NIL money their players are receiving (and if anything, ought to be encouraging it so it disincentivizes those players from seeking more direct compensation from the schools themselves). A school earning $40 million from TV while their roster is receiving $400 million in NIL compensation is a school that's earning $40 million from TV while paying $0 in NIL compensation (with a lot of happy players that aren't trying to get money directly from the schools). That's essentially the best deal ever for the schools.

Ideally, NIL doesnt affect school revenue. However, in practice, college AD's are now discovering thats not how its working. The reality? The pool of revenue potentially available to college sports hasn't actually changed. The same total pool of advertising, corporate sponsorship, and alum donation dollars that existed before NIL exists after NIL. The real difference is to whom it will be paid. The that pool of money used for direct payments to players, means less will be available to flow directly to the schools.
(This post was last modified: 05-11-2022 12:43 PM by Attackcoog.)
05-11-2022 12:40 PM
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Big 12 fan too Offline
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RE: From A Cuse Fan (Split of athletic models)
(05-11-2022 12:40 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(05-11-2022 12:26 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(05-11-2022 12:18 PM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  
(05-11-2022 11:24 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(05-11-2022 11:10 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  Pete I tend to agree with you...however, just the threat might be enough to bring some sanity to the NIL and portal chaos.

I doubt it.

All of these schools seem to want their cake and eat it, too.

It's easy for all of these schools to bemoan that NIL, the transfer portal and other changes in college sports are negatively impacting their respective academic missions.

However, what's not easy for all of these schools is no longer seeing their football and/or basketball games in prime slots on major TV networks while making tens of millions of dollars per year from their respective conferences. That's what would happen if they become a lower tier version of college sports compared to the "SEC pro model" that you've mentioned here.

If these schools are truly and legitimately fine with the latter (the direct loss of money and exposure by downgrading sports), then more power to them. I don't buy that will happen at all, though - not Stanford, not ND, not Duke, not anyone that's currently in a P5 league. Call me crazy, but unilaterally downgrading money and prestige (which is conferred with P5 membership) isn't something that really wealthy and prestigious schools actively choose to do in anything that they participate in, which would include sports.

Totally understand that but what's the breaking point?
Ex: School earns $40m/year from TV and pays $400m/year of NIL.
Is this a business proposition you would go forward with?

Example seems dumb but NIL is spiraling out of control.
Bama and OSU paid $1m/yr to QBs that added no $ value to their teams/schools in 2021. If Young and Stroud weren't on the team would the schools not receive the TV money? Would the fans not show up to games? They were simply paid to choose those schools to play for. So paying the 7th string OL $40m/yr doesnt seem like the best business move but the market may dictate it.

The school doesn't pay NIL in the first place. This is third party money. That's the first mistake that so many posts seem to make. No school should care whatsoever how much NIL money their players are receiving (and if anything, ought to be encouraging it so it disincentivizes those players from seeking more direct compensation from the schools themselves). A school earning $40 million from TV while their roster is receiving $400 million in NIL compensation is a school that's earning $40 million from TV while paying $0 in NIL compensation (with a lot of happy players that aren't trying to get money directly from the schools). That's essentially the best deal ever for the schools.

Ideally, NIL doesnt affect school revenue. However, in practice, college AD's are now discovering thats not how its working. The reality? The pool of revenue potentially available to college sports hasn't actually changed. The same total pool of advertising, corporate sponsorship, and alum donation dollars that existed before NIL exists after NIL. The real difference is to whom it will be paid. The that pool of money used for direct payments to players, means less will be available to flow directly to the schools.

Show me a school that currently spends $440 million?
You can’t get to your example without growth, and that growth isn’t coming from the school. If anything, that school is earning more in revenue without being on the hook for the cost required to get it.

There’s likely some transition pain with fixed costs right now, but a steady state would quickly be reached. The school will spend to its means, just like now, and the arms race offload to NIL and donors.

This is mostly about power. ADs and presidents like to have a say on how their boosters spend money. With them getting a cut along the way. The ADs with any semblance of thought would love their boosters spending that much on the input most likely to generate revenue growth. Not paying for seed and land if you’re a farmer is a heck of a business model, even if initially you have a little less to pay off your current obligations.

The only valid concern is product deterioration with fans not liking the sudden change annual free agency
(This post was last modified: 05-11-2022 12:55 PM by Big 12 fan too.)
05-11-2022 12:49 PM
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Post: #17
RE: From A Cuse Fan (Split of athletic models)
(05-11-2022 12:40 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(05-11-2022 12:26 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(05-11-2022 12:18 PM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  
(05-11-2022 11:24 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(05-11-2022 11:10 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  Pete I tend to agree with you...however, just the threat might be enough to bring some sanity to the NIL and portal chaos.

I doubt it.

All of these schools seem to want their cake and eat it, too.

It's easy for all of these schools to bemoan that NIL, the transfer portal and other changes in college sports are negatively impacting their respective academic missions.

However, what's not easy for all of these schools is no longer seeing their football and/or basketball games in prime slots on major TV networks while making tens of millions of dollars per year from their respective conferences. That's what would happen if they become a lower tier version of college sports compared to the "SEC pro model" that you've mentioned here.

If these schools are truly and legitimately fine with the latter (the direct loss of money and exposure by downgrading sports), then more power to them. I don't buy that will happen at all, though - not Stanford, not ND, not Duke, not anyone that's currently in a P5 league. Call me crazy, but unilaterally downgrading money and prestige (which is conferred with P5 membership) isn't something that really wealthy and prestigious schools actively choose to do in anything that they participate in, which would include sports.

Totally understand that but what's the breaking point?
Ex: School earns $40m/year from TV and pays $400m/year of NIL.
Is this a business proposition you would go forward with?

Example seems dumb but NIL is spiraling out of control.
Bama and OSU paid $1m/yr to QBs that added no $ value to their teams/schools in 2021. If Young and Stroud weren't on the team would the schools not receive the TV money? Would the fans not show up to games? They were simply paid to choose those schools to play for. So paying the 7th string OL $40m/yr doesnt seem like the best business move but the market may dictate it.

The school doesn't pay NIL in the first place. This is third party money. That's the first mistake that so many posts seem to make. No school should care whatsoever how much NIL money their players are receiving (and if anything, ought to be encouraging it so it disincentivizes those players from seeking more direct compensation from the schools themselves). A school earning $40 million from TV while their roster is receiving $400 million in NIL compensation is a school that's earning $40 million from TV while paying $0 in NIL compensation (with a lot of happy players that aren't trying to get money directly from the schools). That's essentially the best deal ever for the schools.

Ideally, NIL doesnt affect school revenue. However, in practice, college AD's are now discovering thats not how its working. The reality? The pool of revenue potentially available to college sports hasn't actually changed. The same total pool of advertising, corporate sponsorship, and alum donation dollars that existed before NIL exists after NIL. The real difference is to whom it will be paid. The that pool of money used for direct payments to players, means less will be available to flow directly to the schools.

On top of that the football programs have to pay to players under the “pro” model. Every school would / could do that?
(This post was last modified: 05-11-2022 12:51 PM by random asian guy.)
05-11-2022 12:49 PM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #18
RE: From A Cuse Fan (Split of athletic models)
(05-11-2022 12:40 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(05-11-2022 12:26 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(05-11-2022 12:18 PM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  
(05-11-2022 11:24 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(05-11-2022 11:10 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  Pete I tend to agree with you...however, just the threat might be enough to bring some sanity to the NIL and portal chaos.

I doubt it.

All of these schools seem to want their cake and eat it, too.

It's easy for all of these schools to bemoan that NIL, the transfer portal and other changes in college sports are negatively impacting their respective academic missions.

However, what's not easy for all of these schools is no longer seeing their football and/or basketball games in prime slots on major TV networks while making tens of millions of dollars per year from their respective conferences. That's what would happen if they become a lower tier version of college sports compared to the "SEC pro model" that you've mentioned here.

If these schools are truly and legitimately fine with the latter (the direct loss of money and exposure by downgrading sports), then more power to them. I don't buy that will happen at all, though - not Stanford, not ND, not Duke, not anyone that's currently in a P5 league. Call me crazy, but unilaterally downgrading money and prestige (which is conferred with P5 membership) isn't something that really wealthy and prestigious schools actively choose to do in anything that they participate in, which would include sports.

Totally understand that but what's the breaking point?
Ex: School earns $40m/year from TV and pays $400m/year of NIL.
Is this a business proposition you would go forward with?

Example seems dumb but NIL is spiraling out of control.
Bama and OSU paid $1m/yr to QBs that added no $ value to their teams/schools in 2021. If Young and Stroud weren't on the team would the schools not receive the TV money? Would the fans not show up to games? They were simply paid to choose those schools to play for. So paying the 7th string OL $40m/yr doesnt seem like the best business move but the market may dictate it.

The school doesn't pay NIL in the first place. This is third party money. That's the first mistake that so many posts seem to make. No school should care whatsoever how much NIL money their players are receiving (and if anything, ought to be encouraging it so it disincentivizes those players from seeking more direct compensation from the schools themselves). A school earning $40 million from TV while their roster is receiving $400 million in NIL compensation is a school that's earning $40 million from TV while paying $0 in NIL compensation (with a lot of happy players that aren't trying to get money directly from the schools). That's essentially the best deal ever for the schools.

Ideally, NIL doesnt affect school revenue. However, in practice, college AD's are now discovering thats not how its working. The reality? The pool of revenue potentially available to college sports hasn't actually changed. The same total pool of advertising, corporate sponsorship, and alum donation dollars that existed before NIL exists after NIL. The real difference is to whom it will be paid. The that pool of money used for direct payments to players, means less will be available to flow directly to the schools.

To the extent that it's occurring, it's simply reflecting that the market was previously distorted where you could provide *zero* to the athletes themselves.

Up until now, the way to attract top players was to essentially have capital investments from the university, such as new training facilities.

Now, the way to attract top players is to actually pay more to those top players.

The latter is a WAAAAAAAAY more efficient way of attracting top talent, particularly in the zero sum world of sports where wins and losses count for so much.

It's like I've said elsewhere: would you rather have your employer spend more money on (a) shiny new offices and top executive salaries or (b) your own salary/bonuses? I know that I'd pick (b) every single time, yet all college athletic departments have been doing is spending money on (a).
05-11-2022 12:51 PM
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Post: #19
RE: From A Cuse Fan (Split of athletic models)
(05-11-2022 11:24 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(05-11-2022 11:10 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  
(05-11-2022 11:08 AM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  
(05-11-2022 10:58 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  Take this as 3rd hand info but this comes from a contact at BC.

University President's of some of the most prestigious schools are developing a contingency plan. They will be in some sort of consortium that emphasize sports and academics within college framework.

BC, UNC, Duke, Stanford, ND, Northwestern, and Syracuse are some of the schools. The Alliance does have legs it appears. No mention of USC or Miami? No idea if other state schools are involved.

What it tells me (if true) some schools will be fine going to a super Ivy League model.

Hate to burst the your contact's bubble, but this idea with these schools ain't ever making it outside the ivory tower

Pete I tend to agree with you...however, just the threat might be enough to bring some sanity to the NIL and portal chaos.

I doubt it.

All of these schools seem to want their cake and eat it, too.

It's easy for all of these schools to bemoan that NIL, the transfer portal and other changes in college sports are negatively impacting their respective academic missions.

However, what's not easy for all of these schools is no longer seeing their football and/or basketball games in prime slots on major TV networks while making tens of millions of dollars per year from their respective conferences. That's what would happen if they become a lower tier version of college sports compared to the "SEC pro model" that you've mentioned here.

If these schools are truly and legitimately fine with the latter (the direct loss of money and exposure by downgrading sports), then more power to them. I don't buy that will happen at all, though - not Stanford, not ND, not Duke, not anyone that's currently in a P5 league. Call me crazy, but unilaterally downgrading money and prestige (which is conferred with P5 membership) isn't something that really wealthy and prestigious schools actively choose to do in anything that they participate in, which would include sports.

Ivy League. University of Chicago. University Athletic Association. A school like Louisville or Ole Miss isn't going to do it. But a Syracuse or Boston College? Maybe. Especially in football.
05-11-2022 01:02 PM
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Post: #20
RE: From A Cuse Fan (Split of athletic models)
(05-11-2022 12:40 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(05-11-2022 12:26 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(05-11-2022 12:18 PM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  
(05-11-2022 11:24 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(05-11-2022 11:10 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  Pete I tend to agree with you...however, just the threat might be enough to bring some sanity to the NIL and portal chaos.

I doubt it.

All of these schools seem to want their cake and eat it, too.

It's easy for all of these schools to bemoan that NIL, the transfer portal and other changes in college sports are negatively impacting their respective academic missions.

However, what's not easy for all of these schools is no longer seeing their football and/or basketball games in prime slots on major TV networks while making tens of millions of dollars per year from their respective conferences. That's what would happen if they become a lower tier version of college sports compared to the "SEC pro model" that you've mentioned here.

If these schools are truly and legitimately fine with the latter (the direct loss of money and exposure by downgrading sports), then more power to them. I don't buy that will happen at all, though - not Stanford, not ND, not Duke, not anyone that's currently in a P5 league. Call me crazy, but unilaterally downgrading money and prestige (which is conferred with P5 membership) isn't something that really wealthy and prestigious schools actively choose to do in anything that they participate in, which would include sports.

Totally understand that but what's the breaking point?
Ex: School earns $40m/year from TV and pays $400m/year of NIL.
Is this a business proposition you would go forward with?

Example seems dumb but NIL is spiraling out of control.
Bama and OSU paid $1m/yr to QBs that added no $ value to their teams/schools in 2021. If Young and Stroud weren't on the team would the schools not receive the TV money? Would the fans not show up to games? They were simply paid to choose those schools to play for. So paying the 7th string OL $40m/yr doesnt seem like the best business move but the market may dictate it.

The school doesn't pay NIL in the first place. This is third party money. That's the first mistake that so many posts seem to make. No school should care whatsoever how much NIL money their players are receiving (and if anything, ought to be encouraging it so it disincentivizes those players from seeking more direct compensation from the schools themselves). A school earning $40 million from TV while their roster is receiving $400 million in NIL compensation is a school that's earning $40 million from TV while paying $0 in NIL compensation (with a lot of happy players that aren't trying to get money directly from the schools). That's essentially the best deal ever for the schools.

Ideally, NIL doesnt affect school revenue. However, in practice, college AD's are now discovering thats not how its working. The reality? The pool of revenue potentially available to college sports hasn't actually changed. The same total pool of advertising, corporate sponsorship, and alum donation dollars that existed before NIL exists after NIL. The real difference is to whom it will be paid. The that pool of money used for direct payments to players, means less will be available to flow directly to the schools.

I don't totally agree. At some point NIL money will be replacing direct donations to the schools. But I see a lot of new money out there right now.
05-11-2022 01:06 PM
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