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Rank the attractiveness of non B1G and SEC schools in the P5
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PGEMF Offline
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Post: #1
Rank the attractiveness of non B1G and SEC schools in the P5
There are 39 teams in the ACC (including Notre Dame), B12 (post Oklahoma/Texas) and P12. If there were some type of breakaway, How how would you rate these schools in terms of attractiveness? Markets/tradition/football/basketball/overall athletics/tv ratings/academics /alumni base all play a factor. I’m sure someone will rank all 39, but my top choices would be

1. Notre Dame
2. USC
3. North Carolina
4. Clemson
5. Virginia
6. Florida St
7. UCLA
8. Oregon
9. Duke
10. Kansas

Pretty confident in Top 6, and I included Duke/Kansas up there for basketball purposes. Not sure where to put the 2 P12 schools I have there along with Stanford/Cal/Washington. Interested to hear others thoughts.
05-10-2022 06:04 PM
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dbackjon Offline
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RE: Rank the attractiveness of non B1G and SEC schools in the P5
(05-10-2022 06:04 PM)PGEMF Wrote:  There are 39 teams in the ACC (including Notre Dame), B12 (post Oklahoma/Texas) and P12. If there were some type of breakaway, How how would you rate these schools in terms of attractiveness? Markets/tradition/football/basketball/overall athletics/tv ratings/academics /alumni base all play a factor. I’m sure someone will rank all 39, but my top choices would be

1. Notre Dame
2. USC
3. North Carolina
4. Clemson
5. Virginia
6. Florida St
7. UCLA
8. Oregon
9. Duke
10. Kansas

Pretty confident in Top 6, and I included Duke/Kansas up there for basketball purposes. Not sure where to put the 2 P12 schools I have there along with Stanford/Cal/Washington. Interested to hear others thoughts.


One of the problems with trying to project "attractiveness" at this point is we have no clue how the whole NIL mess is going to shake out.

Can John Ruiz buy Miami's way up the hierarchy?
Are the biggest market teams like UCLA go up a notch? Can a small market historic blue-blood like Kansas keep up with the Joneses, or will Texas cash rule and render them down to Indiana status?

Do schools in fast growing states like Arizona jump up?

Your top 2 are the no-brainers. Lots of play in the next group.
05-10-2022 06:34 PM
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dbackjon Offline
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RE: Rank the attractiveness of non B1G and SEC schools in the P5
On the other end - Low Value Schools (not ranking the 4 newbies)

Boston College
Pittsburgh
Washington State
Oregon State
TCU
Baylor
Wake Forest
Texas Tech
Kansas State
Iowa State
05-10-2022 06:38 PM
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e-parade Offline
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RE: Rank the attractiveness of non B1G and SEC schools in the P5
(05-10-2022 06:04 PM)PGEMF Wrote:  There are 39 teams in the ACC (including Notre Dame), B12 (post Oklahoma/Texas) and P12. If there were some type of breakaway, How how would you rate these schools in terms of attractiveness? Markets/tradition/football/basketball/overall athletics/tv ratings/academics /alumni base all play a factor. I’m sure someone will rank all 39, but my top choices would be

1. Notre Dame
2. USC
3. North Carolina
4. Clemson
5. Virginia
6. Florida St
7. UCLA
8. Oregon
9. Duke
10. Kansas

Pretty confident in Top 6, and I included Duke/Kansas up there for basketball purposes. Not sure where to put the 2 P12 schools I have there along with Stanford/Cal/Washington. Interested to hear others thoughts.

It's really hard for me to figure out where the remainder of the PAC schools should go, just like you there.

It's hard to imagine the SoCal ones (USC/UCLA) without the Bay Area Cal/Stanford ones as well. And Oregon without Washington is another. I do definitely agree that USC is #2 behind ND overall though, and that UCLA would be the next most valuable from the conference.


Don't think there's much else from the ACC other than the ones you have listed though. Maybe Miami. Overall I think the "University of ____" are in good positions from the 3 conferences (so Utah, Colorado, and Arizona as well).
(This post was last modified: 05-10-2022 07:29 PM by e-parade.)
05-10-2022 07:26 PM
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PeteTheChop Offline
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RE: Rank the attractiveness of non B1G and SEC schools in the P5
(05-10-2022 06:04 PM)PGEMF Wrote:  Rank the attractiveness of non B1G and SEC schools in the P5

Attractiveness to whom?

ESPN and FOX?

Commissioners of the SEC and B1G?

"P-5" athletic directors?

Fans?
05-10-2022 08:30 PM
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goofus Offline
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RE: Rank the attractiveness of non B1G and SEC schools in the P5
39. Wake Forest
38. Wash St
37. BC
36. Hou
35. Baylor
34. Ore St
33. Duke
32. Cincy
31. UCF
30. Lou
29. WV
28. Kan St
27. TT
26. Iowa St
25. Pitt
24. Cuse
23. Ok ST
22. TCU
21. BYU
20. GT
19. VT
18. Miami
17. NCSU
16. Ariz St
15. Stan
14. Utah
13. Kansas
12. Ariz
11. Cal
10. Col
9. Wash
8. UCLA
7. Ore
6. Va
5. UNC
4. Clemson
3. FL ST
2. USC
1. ND
05-10-2022 08:34 PM
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PeteTheChop Offline
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RE: Rank the attractiveness of non B1G and SEC schools in the P5
Taking geography out of the equation ... which unquestionably makes some schools "easier" fits for the B1G or SEC:

(Alphabetically)

Tier 1 (3): North Carolina, ND, USC

Tier 1A (8): Clemson, Duke, Florida State, Kansas, Oregon, UCLA, Virginia, Washington

Tier 2 (13): Arizona, Arizona State, Baylor, Cal, Colorado, Georgia Tech, Miami, NC State, Pitt, Stanford, Texas Tech, Utah, Virginia Tech

Tier 2A (14): Boston College, *BYU, *Cincinnati, *Houston, Iowa State, Kansas State, Louisville, Oklahoma State, Oregon State, Syracuse, TCU, *UCF, Washington State, West Virginia

Tier 3 (1): Wake Forest
05-10-2022 08:52 PM
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PeteTheChop Offline
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RE: Rank the attractiveness of non B1G and SEC schools in the P5
(05-10-2022 08:34 PM)goofus Wrote:  39. Wake Forest
38. Wash St
37. BC
36. Hou
35. Baylor
34. Ore St
33. Duke
32. Cincy
31. UCF
30. Lou
29. WV
28. Kan St
27. TT
26. Iowa St
25. Pitt
24. Cuse
23. Ok ST
22. TCU
21. BYU
20. GT
19. VT
18. Miami
17. NCSU
16. Ariz St
15. Stan
14. Utah
13. Kansas
12. Ariz
11. Cal
10. Col
9. Wash
8. UCLA
7. Ore
6. Va
5. UNC
4. Clemson
3. FL ST
2. USC
1. ND

No diehard Hawkeye fan would rank the Cyclones anywhere near that high 03-wink
05-10-2022 08:57 PM
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PGEMF Offline
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RE: Rank the attractiveness of non B1G and SEC schools in the P5
(05-10-2022 08:30 PM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  
(05-10-2022 06:04 PM)PGEMF Wrote:  Rank the attractiveness of non B1G and SEC schools in the P5

Attractiveness to whom?

ESPN and FOX?

Commissioners of the SEC and B1G?

"P-5" athletic directors?

Fans?

All of the above? Although I guess in my mind, I was thinking more B1G/SEC commissioners as in who would they want.
05-10-2022 09:25 PM
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PGEMF Offline
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RE: Rank the attractiveness of non B1G and SEC schools in the P5
(05-10-2022 08:52 PM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  Taking geography out of the equation ... which unquestionably makes some schools "easier" fits for the B1G or SEC:

(Alphabetically)

Tier 1 (3): North Carolina, ND, USC

Tier 1A (8): Clemson, Duke, Florida State, Kansas, Oregon, UCLA, Virginia, Washington

Tier 2 (13): Arizona, Arizona State, Baylor, Cal, Colorado, Georgia Tech, Miami, NC State, Pitt, Stanford, Texas Tech, Utah, Virginia Tech

Tier 2A (14): Boston College, *BYU, *Cincinnati, *Houston, Iowa State, Kansas State, Louisville, Oklahoma State, Oregon State, Syracuse, TCU, *UCF, Washington State, West Virginia

Tier 3 (1): Wake Forest

This is really good, I don’t see anyone I would potentially move up or down more than one tier.
05-10-2022 09:30 PM
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DFW HOYA Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Rank the attractiveness of non B1G and SEC schools in the P5
BC and Wake Forest are the field horses.
05-10-2022 09:51 PM
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UTEPDallas Offline
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RE: Rank the attractiveness of non B1G and SEC schools in the P5
Even in the B1G and SEC, there’s schools who would not be part of either conference if they started from scratch today. Mississippi State comes to mind.
05-10-2022 09:59 PM
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PeteTheChop Offline
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RE: Rank the attractiveness of non B1G and SEC schools in the P5
(05-10-2022 09:51 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  BC and Wake Forest are the field horses.

Boston College was a lousy choice for No. 12 by the ACC back in 2002.

Would guess there's not another "P-5" school that is lower on the totem pole in its home market in terms of fan interest than BC.
(This post was last modified: 05-10-2022 10:09 PM by PeteTheChop.)
05-10-2022 10:07 PM
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Gemofthehills Offline
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RE: Rank the attractiveness of non B1G and SEC schools in the P5
Notre Dame
Clemson
North Carolina
Southern Cal
Oregon
Florida State
Then it gets hard to want any of the others
Miami
UCF
UVA
UCLA
Va Tech
then maybe
NC State
Washington
Arizona State
BYU
... who cares or wants anyone else

Who do you kick out
Mississippi State
Vandy
Indiana
Purdue
Rutgers
05-10-2022 10:08 PM
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JRsec Offline
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RE: Rank the attractiveness of non B1G and SEC schools in the P5
This data is a year dated but it gives an accurate perspective of a school's relative value to their conference by assuming where their value would be if conference media payouts were made proportionately to their % of the total revenue of the conference instead of equally.

You will note Washington's position relative to USC's. And the value of the ACC schools should open some eyes.

https://csnbbs.com/thread-916418.html


You can look at other evaluative tools as well:
Average Attendance
Gross Total Revenue
WSJ Valuations (which is their total economic impact upon their region other than the games themselves)


Clearly the schools which account for the highest % of total conference revenue are the most valuable to that conference. This inversion shows you just how much.
(This post was last modified: 05-10-2022 10:26 PM by JRsec.)
05-10-2022 10:19 PM
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dbackjon Offline
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RE: Rank the attractiveness of non B1G and SEC schools in the P5
JR - good stuff. Confirms my suspicions that the posters here are way overvaluing UNC and Duke and overvaluing basketball schools in general
05-11-2022 08:16 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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RE: Rank the attractiveness of non B1G and SEC schools in the P5
(05-10-2022 10:19 PM)JRsec Wrote:  This data is a year dated but it gives an accurate perspective of a school's relative value to their conference by assuming where their value would be if conference media payouts were made proportionately to their % of the total revenue of the conference instead of equally.

You will note Washington's position relative to USC's. And the value of the ACC schools should open some eyes.

https://csnbbs.com/thread-916418.html


You can look at other evaluative tools as well:
Average Attendance
Gross Total Revenue
WSJ Valuations (which is their total economic impact upon their region other than the games themselves)


Clearly the schools which account for the highest % of total conference revenue are the most valuable to that conference. This inversion shows you just how much.

OK, but if the value is relative to the conference, then that implies that a school's value might vary in a different conference.

For example, I can buy that right now, in terms of WSJ factors, VT is has a higher % of total conference revenue than UNC. But IMO both the B1G and SEC would much rather invite North Carolina than VT. UNC is a much more attractive addition to both.
(This post was last modified: 05-11-2022 09:00 AM by quo vadis.)
05-11-2022 08:35 AM
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PeteTheChop Offline
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RE: Rank the attractiveness of non B1G and SEC schools in the P5
(05-11-2022 08:16 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  Confirms my suspicions that the posters here are way overvaluing UNC and Duke ...

Pretty certain Greg Sankey, Kevin Warren and the ESPN/Fox bigwigs would disagree with this part of your post
05-11-2022 09:04 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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RE: Rank the attractiveness of non B1G and SEC schools in the P5
(05-11-2022 09:04 AM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  
(05-11-2022 08:16 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  Confirms my suspicions that the posters here are way overvaluing UNC and Duke ...

Pretty certain Greg Sankey, Kevin Warren and the ESPN/Fox bigwigs would disagree with this part of your post

Yes, if I understand the WSJ method correctly, it doesn't necessarily apply this issue, because the value is relative to the conference, which might not mean much in another context.

I mean, this list says that NC State is more valuable to the ACC than UNC, and Duke is dead last. This makes no sense to me. IMO, both Duke and UNC would be at the very top of B1G or SEC expansion lists, whereas NC State would be considerably lower.
05-11-2022 09:10 AM
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freshtop Offline
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RE: Rank the attractiveness of non B1G and SEC schools in the P5
I think football is going to be 80% of the equation (both from a performance and viewership standpoint). Other factors like basketball, non-revenue sports, academics, geography, etc. fall into the other 20%.

1.) Notre Dame
2.) USC
3.) Clemson
4.) Florida State
5.) Oregon
6.) Miami

After that I think you have a lot of programs on relatively equal footing. Washington, VaTech, UCLA, Colorado, Utah, etc. Any P5 that has shown a pulse in the past decade. I actually think that UCF probably deserves in that convo as well.
05-11-2022 09:25 AM
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