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Lincoln College In Illinois closed down
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Big 12 fan too Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Lincoln College In Illinois closed down
(05-10-2022 11:53 AM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(05-10-2022 11:49 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  
(05-10-2022 11:45 AM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  
(05-10-2022 11:35 AM)Big 12 fan too Wrote:  It’s as much a quality supply issue as cost. Residential education is trending towards luxury goods. Illinois has a shortage of spots for what the number of quality students are looking for.

My personal opinion is college athletics plays into that.

Illinois has a lot of colleges that have generally always been fast food quality, now charging casual dining prices, and most students are looking for better

In that context, would Illinois State making the jump to I-A and the MAC be a good thing for the "Prairie State" moving forward?

Would the MAC embrace such a thing (say with WKU in tow as Nos. 13 and 14)?

It would make zero difference. Illinois State (FCS) is a more popular school for IL students than NIU (FBS).

IL high school students don't care about G5 or FCS football. They care that there's not a Purdue to Indiana's Illinois.

I think that’s every state. If you live in X state you want to go to the “University of X” or “X State University”….I hate to say it but having a direction in your name is a killler unless your USC.
More correlation than anything. Most of the oldest, largest schools in states took those names. They became established as the top institutions a century ago.

Coming in 50+ years later and trying to compete with an business that is established is going to take some special circumstances to succeed.

USF and UCF for example have the benefit of a state with massive transient population growth, and better locations than FSU and UF. Particularly FSU.

FSU does not want to end up in the same conference as either of those two. Without their history in football, they wouldn’t have any significant brand advantage in state
05-10-2022 12:32 PM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Lincoln College In Illinois closed down
(05-10-2022 11:49 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  
(05-10-2022 11:45 AM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  
(05-10-2022 11:35 AM)Big 12 fan too Wrote:  It’s as much a quality supply issue as cost. Residential education is trending towards luxury goods. Illinois has a shortage of spots for what the number of quality students are looking for.

My personal opinion is college athletics plays into that.

Illinois has a lot of colleges that have generally always been fast food quality, now charging casual dining prices, and most students are looking for better

In that context, would Illinois State making the jump to I-A and the MAC be a good thing for the "Prairie State" moving forward?

Would the MAC embrace such a thing (say with WKU in tow as Nos. 13 and 14)?

It would make zero difference. Illinois State (FCS) is a more popular school for IL students than NIU (FBS).

IL high school students don't care about G5 or FCS football. They care that there's not a Purdue to Indiana's Illinois.

Agreed. Illinois State has always been higher on the pecking order than NIU with in the state. That wouldn't be impacted at all by a G5/FCS change. If anything, MVC basketball membership has more of an impact than MAC football membership locally.

As for other states:

Indiana has IU and Purdue.

Iowa has UI and Iowa State.

Michigan has Michigan and Michigan State.

Kentucky has UK and Louisville.

These are all states bordering or, in the case of Michigan, within an hour of the border of the State of Illinois that have multiple public P5 schools. The State of Illinois has U of I and Northwestern, but that's an elite private school that has a fraction of the enrollment spots and has a national admissions profile. So, our state has a combination of a lot fewer P5 public university slots with a much larger population than any of our neighbors. (I'm not saying that being a P5 school is the only way that a school can be a high-profile public university, as there are plenty of examples like UConn, UCSD, etc. However, there's a strong correlation and even a place like UConn is in the Big East for other sports.)

At the same time, that's not the only reason why a lot of students leave the State of Illinois, but it's assuredly the case that a lot of people want a traditional Big Ten/P5 large school experience and that's actually something that is in limited supply on a per capita basis for in-state Illinois students compared to a lot of other nearby states.
(This post was last modified: 05-10-2022 12:43 PM by Frank the Tank.)
05-10-2022 12:40 PM
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Schadenfreude Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Lincoln College In Illinois closed down
(05-10-2022 11:04 AM)Stay Cool Wrote:  That's because of in-state tuition costs, not lack of options. Also, most people from Illinois want to get the hell out of Illinois, especially around Chicago.

From 2010 to 2020, Illinois's population grew in Chicagoland. It declined in most other counties.

https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews...f6.pdf.pdf
05-10-2022 12:45 PM
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Big 12 fan too Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Lincoln College In Illinois closed down
(05-10-2022 12:40 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(05-10-2022 11:49 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  
(05-10-2022 11:45 AM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  
(05-10-2022 11:35 AM)Big 12 fan too Wrote:  It’s as much a quality supply issue as cost. Residential education is trending towards luxury goods. Illinois has a shortage of spots for what the number of quality students are looking for.

My personal opinion is college athletics plays into that.

Illinois has a lot of colleges that have generally always been fast food quality, now charging casual dining prices, and most students are looking for better

In that context, would Illinois State making the jump to I-A and the MAC be a good thing for the "Prairie State" moving forward?

Would the MAC embrace such a thing (say with WKU in tow as Nos. 13 and 14)?

It would make zero difference. Illinois State (FCS) is a more popular school for IL students than NIU (FBS).

IL high school students don't care about G5 or FCS football. They care that there's not a Purdue to Indiana's Illinois.

Agreed. Illinois State has always been higher on the pecking order than NIU with in the state. That wouldn't be impacted at all by a G5/FCS change. If anything, MVC basketball membership has more of an impact than MAC football membership locally.

As for other states:

Indiana has IU and Purdue.

Iowa has UI and Iowa State.

Michigan has Michigan and Michigan State.

Kentucky has UK and Louisville.

These are all states bordering or, in the case of Michigan, within an hour of the border of the State of Illinois that have multiple public P5 schools. The State of Illinois has U of I and Northwestern, but that's an elite private school that has a fraction of the enrollment spots and has a national admissions profile. So, our state has a combination of a lot fewer P5 public university slots with a much larger population than any of our neighbors. (I'm not saying that being a P5 school is the only way that a school can be a high-profile public university, as there are plenty of examples like UConn, UCSD, etc. However, there's a strong correlation and even a place like UConn is in the Big East for other sports.)
It’s a regional issue. MN, WI, Missouri all have the same dynamic. Nebraska only one, but also a much smaller population.
Ohio is the extreme case in which the public alternatives to OSU so distributive in nature, for decades the down market options have drowned themselves out, although sheer need for an alternative does a place like Ohio well. In any other industry M&A would have occurred.

If Illinois State had spent on average $10 million more per year on football 1990-2010, are they in UCF’s shoes?
(This post was last modified: 05-10-2022 12:55 PM by Big 12 fan too.)
05-10-2022 12:48 PM
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Bronco'14 Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Lincoln College In Illinois closed down
I agree w/ this: You wouldn't see as many Illinois students leaving if there were more 'high-quality' schools.

Imagine if Chicago had Big 10 athletics, Illinois Urbana-Champaign was a Big 10 power, or there was another Big 10 school.

As a MAC fan, yes, I'm open to another Illinois school in the MAC. I don't know if it'd help the state of Illinois, but I think it could help Northern Illinois. having a nice rivalry in-state.
(This post was last modified: 05-10-2022 12:56 PM by Bronco'14.)
05-10-2022 12:52 PM
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Post: #26
RE: Lincoln College In Illinois closed down
(05-10-2022 12:52 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  I agree w/ this: You wouldn't see as many Illinois students leaving if there were more 'high-quality' schools.

Imagine if Chicago had Big 10 athletics, Illinois Urbana-Champaign was a Big 10 power, or there was another Big 10 school.

As a MAC fan, yes, I'm open to another Illinois school in the MAC. I don't know if it'd help the state of Illinois, but I think it could help Northern Illinois. having a nice rivalry in-state.

Again, speaking of the MAC, I've gotten the sense that four schools have larger fan bases/more resources than the rest of the conference's traditional Midwest members:

Miami
Ohio U
Toledo
Western Michigan

Would that be accurate?
(This post was last modified: 05-10-2022 01:19 PM by PeteTheChop.)
05-10-2022 01:18 PM
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Post: #27
RE: Lincoln College In Illinois closed down
(05-10-2022 12:52 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  Imagine if Chicago had Big 10 athletics,

Maybe they need more billboards.

[Image: NU-Billboard-15-2.jpg]
05-10-2022 03:47 PM
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goofus Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Lincoln College In Illinois closed down
(05-10-2022 03:47 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  
(05-10-2022 12:52 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  Imagine if Chicago had Big 10 athletics,

Maybe they need more billboards.

[Image: NU-Billboard-15-2.jpg]

That's funny. Although I had a hunch he meant University of Chicago. But I could be wrong.
05-10-2022 04:06 PM
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Bronco'14 Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Lincoln College In Illinois closed down
I did mean the University of Chicago, although yes, students going out of state are avoiding N'western as well.

(05-10-2022 01:18 PM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  
(05-10-2022 12:52 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  I agree w/ this: You wouldn't see as many Illinois students leaving if there were more 'high-quality' schools.

Imagine if Chicago had Big 10 athletics, Illinois Urbana-Champaign was a Big 10 power, or there was another Big 10 school.

As a MAC fan, yes, I'm open to another Illinois school in the MAC. I don't know if it'd help the state of Illinois, but I think it could help Northern Illinois. having a nice rivalry in-state.

Again, speaking of the MAC, I've gotten the sense that four schools have larger fan bases/more resources than the rest of the conference's traditional Midwest members:

Miami
Ohio U
Toledo
Western Michigan

Would that be accurate?
I would add Central Michigan & possibly Bowling Green as well.
(This post was last modified: 05-10-2022 04:11 PM by Bronco'14.)
05-10-2022 04:11 PM
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IWokeUpLikeThis Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Lincoln College In Illinois closed down
(05-10-2022 04:11 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  I did mean the University of Chicago, although yes, students going out of state are avoiding N'western as well.

Other way around. Northwestern is avoiding them.
05-10-2022 05:04 PM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Lincoln College In Illinois closed down
(05-10-2022 05:04 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  
(05-10-2022 04:11 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  I did mean the University of Chicago, although yes, students going out of state are avoiding N'western as well.

Other way around. Northwestern is avoiding them.

Heh - yeah. Northwestern’s acceptance rate was 7% this year out of over 51,000 applications. To put that into perspective, Northwestern receives more applications than every single other Big Ten school besides Michigan with only a fraction of the enrollment. That’s not the school that Illinois students are avoiding.
05-10-2022 05:23 PM
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johnintx Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Lincoln College In Illinois closed down
(05-10-2022 09:42 AM)billybobby777 Wrote:  If this 150 year old college in central Illinois that had 1200 students in 2021 can’t make it, I wonder how worse off schools in Illinois can?

As discussed on another thread, Lincoln is a unique situation. They were a private junior college from 1929 to 2015. There are very few private junior colleges left. In an attempt to stay open, they added four-year degrees in 2015.

So, with 86 years as a junior college, they were not able to build the alumni base or endowment needed to make it through hard times. When Covid and the cyberattack hit together, they were unable to bounce back.

However, these are indeed tough times for small private colleges. Those with higher endowments, a specific base of support, and a defined niche will be able to survive.
05-10-2022 06:02 PM
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Post: #33
RE: Lincoln College In Illinois closed down
(05-10-2022 05:23 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(05-10-2022 05:04 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  
(05-10-2022 04:11 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  I did mean the University of Chicago, although yes, students going out of state are avoiding N'western as well.

Other way around. Northwestern is avoiding them.

Heh - yeah. Northwestern’s acceptance rate was 7% this year out of over 51,000 applications. To put that into perspective, Northwestern receives more applications than every single other Big Ten school besides Michigan with only a fraction of the enrollment. That’s not the school that Illinois students are avoiding.

Makes me appreciate all the more how special my Mom was - two Master's degrees done concurrently at Northwestern back in the early 50's - both done in 2 years
05-10-2022 06:11 PM
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Post: #34
RE: Lincoln College In Illinois closed down
(05-10-2022 06:02 PM)johnintx Wrote:  
(05-10-2022 09:42 AM)billybobby777 Wrote:  If this 150 year old college in central Illinois that had 1200 students in 2021 can’t make it, I wonder how worse off schools in Illinois can?

As discussed on another thread, Lincoln is a unique situation. They were a private junior college from 1929 to 2015. There are very few private junior colleges left. In an attempt to stay open, they added four-year degrees in 2015.

So, with 86 years as a junior college, they were not able to build the alumni base or endowment needed to make it through hard times. When Covid and the cyberattack hit together, they were unable to bounce back.

However, these are indeed tough times for small private colleges. Those with higher endowments, a specific base of support, and a defined niche will be able to survive.

Is Lincoln an Historically Black University?
05-11-2022 01:37 AM
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ChrisLords Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Lincoln College In Illinois closed down
Land of Lincoln cancels Lincoln.
05-11-2022 04:46 AM
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Post: #36
RE: Lincoln College In Illinois closed down
(05-11-2022 01:37 AM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(05-10-2022 06:02 PM)johnintx Wrote:  
(05-10-2022 09:42 AM)billybobby777 Wrote:  If this 150 year old college in central Illinois that had 1200 students in 2021 can’t make it, I wonder how worse off schools in Illinois can?

As discussed on another thread, Lincoln is a unique situation. They were a private junior college from 1929 to 2015. There are very few private junior colleges left. In an attempt to stay open, they added four-year degrees in 2015.

So, with 86 years as a junior college, they were not able to build the alumni base or endowment needed to make it through hard times. When Covid and the cyberattack hit together, they were unable to bounce back.

However, these are indeed tough times for small private colleges. Those with higher endowments, a specific base of support, and a defined niche will be able to survive.

Is Lincoln an Historically Black University?

That’s Lincoln (PA). At one time, Lincoln/Howard was the biggest rivalry in HBCU football.
05-11-2022 08:24 AM
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Post: #37
RE: Lincoln College In Illinois closed down
(05-10-2022 12:48 PM)Big 12 fan too Wrote:  If Illinois State had spent on average $10 million more per year on football 1990-2010, are they in UCF’s shoes?

No way.

Not enough available football talent within driving distance of Normal, Ill.
05-11-2022 08:46 AM
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Post: #38
RE: Lincoln College In Illinois closed down
(05-10-2022 11:48 AM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(05-10-2022 11:35 AM)Big 12 fan too Wrote:  
(05-10-2022 11:04 AM)Stay Cool Wrote:  
(05-10-2022 10:50 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(05-10-2022 09:43 AM)Stay Cool Wrote:  If we're being honest, Illinois is a little over saturated with colleges that can easily be consolidated.

Sent from my SM-N981U using Tapatalk

Illinois is a huge exporter of students.

If anything, the state doesn't have enough colleges.
That's because of in-state tuition costs, not lack of options. Also, most people from Illinois want to get the hell out of Illinois, especially around Chicago.

Sent from my SM-N981U using Tapatalk
That’s not exactly true. University of Iowa is more expensive out of state than NIU or ISU.

It’s as much a quality supply issue as cost. Residential education is trending towards luxury goods. Illinois has a shortage of spots for what the number of quality students are looking for.

My personal opinion is college athletics plays into that.

Illinois has a lot of colleges that have generally always been fast food quality, now charging casual dining prices, and most students are looking for better

When I visited my brother at University of Iowa ten years ago I was amazed at how many kids were from Illinois. I think you’re right, if they can’t go to Illinois they go out of state rather than stay in state for a “less prestigious”. Yeah, I think sports has something to do with it.

This is precisely what happens at Arkansas. Texas student enrollment is massive. If kids don’t get into UT/A&M, there’s a high chance they’ll choose Arkansas over Tech, Houston, or other in-state choices. It’s also plenty of kids who could afford SMU based on the amount of Texas plates on new high end cars in the lot.
05-11-2022 08:57 AM
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Post: #39
RE: Lincoln College In Illinois closed down
(05-11-2022 08:46 AM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  
(05-10-2022 12:48 PM)Big 12 fan too Wrote:  If Illinois State had spent on average $10 million more per year on football 1990-2010, are they in UCF’s shoes?

No way.

Not enough available football talent within driving distance of Normal, Ill.

There’s about as much as Cincinnati.
Enough NIU had an orange bowl season too
05-11-2022 08:59 AM
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Post: #40
RE: Lincoln College In Illinois closed down
(05-11-2022 08:59 AM)Big 12 fan too Wrote:  
(05-11-2022 08:46 AM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  
(05-10-2022 12:48 PM)Big 12 fan too Wrote:  If Illinois State had spent on average $10 million more per year on football 1990-2010, are they in UCF’s shoes?

No way.

Not enough available football talent within driving distance of Normal, Ill.

There’s about as much as Cincinnati.
Enough NIU had an orange bowl season too

Cincinnati has way more access to Ohio and a bit to Pennsylvania. And UCF/Cincy had a much better conference with the old AAC. And they’re located in Cincinnati/Orlando as compared to Blo-No. And they’re much bigger schools with much bigger budgets. There’s no comparison.

ISU would just be splitting players the other MAC teams get.
05-11-2022 09:38 AM
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