(05-18-2022 08:14 PM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  No on NDSU. It makes no sense and they want in the MWC anyway, so adding them for 4 years until the MWC sweeps them up is foolish.

The MAC would have nothing to worry about. The Mountain West Conference has no interest in the Dakota schools.

The entire FB landscape is going to be shaken up over the next 5+ years.

1) NIL already legal precedent for it.
2) Divisions for a CCG no longer required.
3) Potential of unlimited scholarships in FBS.
4) Future money split in FBS yet to be determined.

NDSU has peaked and I seriously doubt they have any upside in this new environment.

MAC shouldn't expand with anyone until more shoes drop.

(05-16-2022 02:26 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  I think North Dakota State would come into the MAC and compete immediately the way Marshall did.

(05-16-2022 02:48 PM)inutech Wrote:  Is that a selling point for a MAC president?

It would be a selling point if the addition of WKU and NDSU is so successful that ESPN would have to agree to boost the MAC schools' revenue by over $1 million per year in the conference's next broadcasting agreement.

(05-19-2022 12:10 AM)Milwaukee Wrote:  

(05-16-2022 02:26 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  I think North Dakota State would come into the MAC and compete immediately the way Marshall did.

(05-16-2022 02:48 PM)inutech Wrote:  Is that a selling point for a MAC president?

It would be a selling point if the addition of WKU and NDSU is so successful that ESPN would have to agree to boost the MAC schools' revenue by over $1 million per year in the conference's next broadcasting agreement.

The MAC's strategy for increasing ESPN payout is a GOR.

MT of course balked on that.

(05-08-2022 06:26 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(05-08-2022 06:14 PM)TroyTBoy Wrote:  

(05-08-2022 05:36 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  The MAC seems better, IMO.

Bad take.

CUSA is going to be one of the best mid major conferences in NCAA Basketball. They literally got freed of most of the dead NET weight and added consistent programs like NMSU and Liberty (and a NCAA team in JSU).

As for football, CUSA just welcomed these name coaches:
Jerry Kill
Rich Rodriguez
Sonny Cumbie
Hugh Freeze

CUSA has much better brands than the MAC. UTEP, WKU, MTSU, FIU, and Louisiana Tech were all valued higher than the majority of the Sunbelt which is why they either departed the Sunbelt or poached the Sunbelt in 2013. Teams like ULM, USA, Troy, etc, are like a lot of the MAC teams those CUSA teams have tried to avoid.

Then, SHSU is a recent FCS National Champion and JSU won the upset of the year last year against Florida State.
Liberty is probably the jewel of the new CUSA. They are one of the most well-funded programs in the G5. Their contract with Freeze speaks to their commitment. NMSU just embarrassed UCONN in the NCAA tournament,

All of that doesn't even take into account that the MAC sits on a recruiting tundra.

All of the MAC schools are so close together in Michigan and Ohio that they cannibalize their fellow conference mates recruiting classes.

CUSA was fortunate to retain a Florida and Texas presence. The MAC just can't offer those recruiting fields. When you add in Louisiana and Alabama, CUSA still has access to the greatest regions for talent acquisition in FBS. (And they aren't suffocating each other trying to land a 2 star)

It can be argued that a 9-team league is preferable to a 14-team league with SBC caliber talent (or even a 12 team league with MAC caliber talent).

If I was CUSA, I might add 1 or 2 more and go into a Double Round Robin Scheduling philosophy. That's literally the optimal league structure for those programs (Southern bent and compact).

IMO, CUSA is the worst dumpster fire. The MAC at least has a tight-knit culture. CUSA raided the SBC in 2013 and seemed to be gunning for the MW as the second-best G5, everyone was predicting big things.

And what happened over the last 8 years? IMO CUSA went in to the toilet.

And why did that happen? Because CUSA foolishly pursued "markets" instead of programs with actual histories and cultures of successful football. CUSA did the SBC a favor by ridding it of over-bloated, under-performing "market" schools**.

CUSA is like the shadow-AAC, except it has fallen behind the Sun Belt so is now the Shadow-Shadow-AAC.

About the worst thing to be.


** Ironically, the AAC has arguably done CUSA a favor by taking some of those same "market" schools off CUSA hands.

You are exactly right. And, the AAC just did the same thing expanding with "markets" instead of programs.

No Divisions means the MAC can add WKU without a partner.

(05-19-2022 08:40 AM)HoustonCajun Wrote:  

(05-08-2022 06:26 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(05-08-2022 06:14 PM)TroyTBoy Wrote:  

(05-08-2022 05:36 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  The MAC seems better, IMO.

Bad take.

CUSA is going to be one of the best mid major conferences in NCAA Basketball. They literally got freed of most of the dead NET weight and added consistent programs like NMSU and Liberty (and a NCAA team in JSU).

As for football, CUSA just welcomed these name coaches:
Jerry Kill
Rich Rodriguez
Sonny Cumbie
Hugh Freeze

CUSA has much better brands than the MAC. UTEP, WKU, MTSU, FIU, and Louisiana Tech were all valued higher than the majority of the Sunbelt which is why they either departed the Sunbelt or poached the Sunbelt in 2013. Teams like ULM, USA, Troy, etc, are like a lot of the MAC teams those CUSA teams have tried to avoid.

Then, SHSU is a recent FCS National Champion and JSU won the upset of the year last year against Florida State.
Liberty is probably the jewel of the new CUSA. They are one of the most well-funded programs in the G5. Their contract with Freeze speaks to their commitment. NMSU just embarrassed UCONN in the NCAA tournament,

All of that doesn't even take into account that the MAC sits on a recruiting tundra.

All of the MAC schools are so close together in Michigan and Ohio that they cannibalize their fellow conference mates recruiting classes.

CUSA was fortunate to retain a Florida and Texas presence. The MAC just can't offer those recruiting fields. When you add in Louisiana and Alabama, CUSA still has access to the greatest regions for talent acquisition in FBS. (And they aren't suffocating each other trying to land a 2 star)

It can be argued that a 9-team league is preferable to a 14-team league with SBC caliber talent (or even a 12 team league with MAC caliber talent).

If I was CUSA, I might add 1 or 2 more and go into a Double Round Robin Scheduling philosophy. That's literally the optimal league structure for those programs (Southern bent and compact).

IMO, CUSA is the worst dumpster fire. The MAC at least has a tight-knit culture. CUSA raided the SBC in 2013 and seemed to be gunning for the MW as the second-best G5, everyone was predicting big things.

And what happened over the last 8 years? IMO CUSA went in to the toilet.

And why did that happen? Because CUSA foolishly pursued "markets" instead of programs with actual histories and cultures of successful football. CUSA did the SBC a favor by ridding it of over-bloated, under-performing "market" schools**.

CUSA is like the shadow-AAC, except it has fallen behind the Sun Belt so is now the Shadow-Shadow-AAC.

About the worst thing to be.


** Ironically, the AAC has arguably done CUSA a favor by taking some of those same "market" schools off CUSA hands.

You are exactly right. And, the AAC just did the same thing expanding with "markets" instead of programs.

The difference there is that CUSA doesn't have a TV deal and the AAC does. BUT... the CUSA schools that the AAC added do not have their market at all. Charlotte can barely get 11k in the stands on game day.

(05-19-2022 11:33 AM)GreenBison Wrote:  

(05-19-2022 08:40 AM)HoustonCajun Wrote:  

(05-08-2022 06:26 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(05-08-2022 06:14 PM)TroyTBoy Wrote:  

(05-08-2022 05:36 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  The MAC seems better, IMO.

Bad take.

CUSA is going to be one of the best mid major conferences in NCAA Basketball. They literally got freed of most of the dead NET weight and added consistent programs like NMSU and Liberty (and a NCAA team in JSU).

As for football, CUSA just welcomed these name coaches:
Jerry Kill
Rich Rodriguez
Sonny Cumbie
Hugh Freeze

CUSA has much better brands than the MAC. UTEP, WKU, MTSU, FIU, and Louisiana Tech were all valued higher than the majority of the Sunbelt which is why they either departed the Sunbelt or poached the Sunbelt in 2013. Teams like ULM, USA, Troy, etc, are like a lot of the MAC teams those CUSA teams have tried to avoid.

Then, SHSU is a recent FCS National Champion and JSU won the upset of the year last year against Florida State.
Liberty is probably the jewel of the new CUSA. They are one of the most well-funded programs in the G5. Their contract with Freeze speaks to their commitment. NMSU just embarrassed UCONN in the NCAA tournament,

All of that doesn't even take into account that the MAC sits on a recruiting tundra.

All of the MAC schools are so close together in Michigan and Ohio that they cannibalize their fellow conference mates recruiting classes.

CUSA was fortunate to retain a Florida and Texas presence. The MAC just can't offer those recruiting fields. When you add in Louisiana and Alabama, CUSA still has access to the greatest regions for talent acquisition in FBS. (And they aren't suffocating each other trying to land a 2 star)

It can be argued that a 9-team league is preferable to a 14-team league with SBC caliber talent (or even a 12 team league with MAC caliber talent).

If I was CUSA, I might add 1 or 2 more and go into a Double Round Robin Scheduling philosophy. That's literally the optimal league structure for those programs (Southern bent and compact).

IMO, CUSA is the worst dumpster fire. The MAC at least has a tight-knit culture. CUSA raided the SBC in 2013 and seemed to be gunning for the MW as the second-best G5, everyone was predicting big things.

And what happened over the last 8 years? IMO CUSA went in to the toilet.

And why did that happen? Because CUSA foolishly pursued "markets" instead of programs with actual histories and cultures of successful football. CUSA did the SBC a favor by ridding it of over-bloated, under-performing "market" schools**.

CUSA is like the shadow-AAC, except it has fallen behind the Sun Belt so is now the Shadow-Shadow-AAC.

About the worst thing to be.


** Ironically, the AAC has arguably done CUSA a favor by taking some of those same "market" schools off CUSA hands.

You are exactly right. And, the AAC just did the same thing expanding with "markets" instead of programs.

The difference there is that CUSA doesn't have a TV deal and the AAC does. BUT... the CUSA schools that the AAC added do not have their market at all. Charlotte can barely get 11k in the stands on game day.

Charlotte still has some growing to do for sure and were 100% a market add. I think C-USA suffered through the growing pains and rehabilitation of programs like UTSA, FAU, and UAB. Now the AAC will get to benefit for it come the next negotiation because I expect those 3 to stay good. UNT has potential and administrative support so their floor is being mediocre and their ceiling is being great. Rice is Rice. They could be Stanford if their admin wanted to, they just haven't seemed interested in a long time. Maybe that changes now that they have their "golden ticket". I think playing other privates like Tulane, Temple, and Tulsa will help grease the wheel for them because losing to neanderthal publics that have low entrance standards is tolerable because you have your academic high-horse to sit on. Losing to other programs with academic standards won't be an easy pill to swallow.

(05-19-2022 11:31 AM)GreenBison Wrote:  No Divisions means the MAC can add WKU without a partner.

Bingo!

(05-19-2022 11:56 AM)BeatWestern! Wrote:  

(05-19-2022 11:31 AM)GreenBison Wrote:  No Divisions means the MAC can add WKU without a partner.

Bingo!

Didn't C-USA agree to a temporary extension of the exit window (at the request of some of the programs leaving to the AAC)? In a perfect World something could be done soonish, but I don't know that any of the institutions involved moved at that speed.

(05-19-2022 11:56 AM)BeatWestern! Wrote:  

(05-19-2022 11:31 AM)GreenBison Wrote:  No Divisions means the MAC can add WKU without a partner.

Bingo!

So we will find out if the MAC thinks it's worthwhile since we know WKU wants in and we know that the MAC can add just one without issues.

(05-19-2022 11:31 AM)GreenBison Wrote:  No Divisions means the MAC can add WKU without a partner.

Why do you think this was the reason stopping them from doing so?

They could always have added WKU without a partner if they wanted. This maybe means it's less of a bad idea, but that doesn't make it a good idea.

(05-19-2022 01:43 PM)inutech Wrote:  

(05-19-2022 11:31 AM)GreenBison Wrote:  No Divisions means the MAC can add WKU without a partner.

Why do you think this was the reason stopping them from doing so?

They could always have added WKU without a partner if they wanted. This maybe means it's less of a bad idea, but that doesn't make it a good idea.

The MAC still has 5 more years on its TV deal with ESPN. They demanded a GOR for MT/WKU and extension but they can wait on it to see how everything plays out.

(05-18-2022 11:40 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  The entire FB landscape is going to be shaken up over the next 5+ years.

1) NIL already legal precedent for it.
2) Divisions for a CCG no longer required.
3) Potential of unlimited scholarships in FBS.
4) Future money split in FBS yet to be determined.

NDSU has peaked and I seriously doubt they have any upside in this new environment.

MAC shouldn't expand with anyone until more shoes drop.

I don't think the MAC really wanted to expand, or WKU and MTSU really wanted to leave CUSA.

There was probably a consultant who went to the MAC and said "there's these schools that are really interested in the MAC" and then went to the schools and said, "The MAC is really looking at expanding." The consultant was just looking for his fee.

(05-19-2022 11:03 PM)jimrtex Wrote:  

(05-18-2022 11:40 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  The entire FB landscape is going to be shaken up over the next 5+ years.

1) NIL already legal precedent for it.
2) Divisions for a CCG no longer required.
3) Potential of unlimited scholarships in FBS.
4) Future money split in FBS yet to be determined.

NDSU has peaked and I seriously doubt they have any upside in this new environment.

MAC shouldn't expand with anyone until more shoes drop.

I don't think the MAC really wanted to expand, or WKU and MTSU really wanted to leave CUSA.

There was probably a consultant who went to the MAC and said "there's these schools that are really interested in the MAC" and then went to the schools and said, "The MAC is really looking at expanding." The consultant was just looking for his fee.

NOT TRUE. The whole situation was real and moving forward till close to a final decision.

It was NOT just some consultant "shopping" the idea to both sides.

jimrtex WAY off base with this take!!!

I think WKU will get to the MAC eventually, especially if the AAC loses more schools to the Big XII and the AAC adds Buffalo to placate Temple.

(05-19-2022 11:14 PM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  

(05-19-2022 11:03 PM)jimrtex Wrote:  

(05-18-2022 11:40 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  The entire FB landscape is going to be shaken up over the next 5+ years.

1) NIL already legal precedent for it.
2) Divisions for a CCG no longer required.
3) Potential of unlimited scholarships in FBS.
4) Future money split in FBS yet to be determined.

NDSU has peaked and I seriously doubt they have any upside in this new environment.

MAC shouldn't expand with anyone until more shoes drop.

I don't think the MAC really wanted to expand, or WKU and MTSU really wanted to leave CUSA.

There was probably a consultant who went to the MAC and said "there's these schools that are really interested in the MAC" and then went to the schools and said, "The MAC is really looking at expanding." The consultant was just looking for his fee.

NOT TRUE. The whole situation was real and moving forward till close to a final decision.

It was NOT just some consultant "shopping" the idea to both sides.

jimrtex WAY off base with this take!!!

The MAC has the same teams they had in 1976, with the exception of Akron which was added in 1992, and Buffalo which was added in 1999.

Northern Illinois left but came back. UCF, Marshall, Temple, UMass have come and gone.

(05-19-2022 11:03 PM)jimrtex Wrote:  

(05-18-2022 11:40 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  The entire FB landscape is going to be shaken up over the next 5+ years.

1) NIL already legal precedent for it.
2) Divisions for a CCG no longer required.
3) Potential of unlimited scholarships in FBS.
4) Future money split in FBS yet to be determined.

NDSU has peaked and I seriously doubt they have any upside in this new environment.

MAC shouldn't expand with anyone until more shoes drop.

I don't think the MAC really wanted to expand, or WKU and MTSU really wanted to leave CUSA.

There was probably a consultant who went to the MAC and said "there's these schools that are really interested in the MAC" and then went to the schools and said, "The MAC is really looking at expanding." The consultant was just looking for his fee.

I can’t speak for the MAC or MTSU but WKU’s AD has publicly said we wanted in the MAC and that we would still want in if the opportunity came up in the future.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

(05-20-2022 05:10 AM)jimrtex Wrote:  

(05-19-2022 11:14 PM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  

(05-19-2022 11:03 PM)jimrtex Wrote:  

(05-18-2022 11:40 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  The entire FB landscape is going to be shaken up over the next 5+ years.

1) NIL already legal precedent for it.
2) Divisions for a CCG no longer required.
3) Potential of unlimited scholarships in FBS.
4) Future money split in FBS yet to be determined.

NDSU has peaked and I seriously doubt they have any upside in this new environment.

MAC shouldn't expand with anyone until more shoes drop.

I don't think the MAC really wanted to expand, or WKU and MTSU really wanted to leave CUSA.

There was probably a consultant who went to the MAC and said "there's these schools that are really interested in the MAC" and then went to the schools and said, "The MAC is really looking at expanding." The consultant was just looking for his fee.

NOT TRUE. The whole situation was real and moving forward till close to a final decision.

It was NOT just some consultant "shopping" the idea to both sides.

jimrtex WAY off base with this take!!!

The MAC has the same teams they had in 1976, with the exception of Akron which was added in 1992, and Buffalo which was added in 1999.

Northern Illinois left but came back. UCF, Marshall, Temple, UMass have come and gone.

Quote:The MAC only wanted two teams and it was set for Western Kentucky and Middle Tennessee State to join, however MTSU backed out at the last second causing them to rescind their bid.

the rest of the story
https://www.wbko.com/2021/11/24/wku-athl...ying-cusa/

Quote:Stewart believes there was “mutual agreement” across the board the MAC was comfortable moving to 14 schools with the addition of WKU and Middle Tennessee, but on Wednesday morning, Middle Tennessee announced it would be staying in C-USA.

Quote:“We got into the process a little bit and then all of a sudden one wasn’t interested as much, so I think that changed things from the standpoint of all of a sudden now they’re not adding an even number, they’re adding an odd number, and 14 for scheduling purposes and divisional purposes is more appealing than 13 is,” Stewart said. “That changing, going from two to one, which made it go from 14 to 13, really was a game changer, and I think were it not for that, I think that we both would be in the Mid-American Conference today.”

WKU was still prepared to accept an invitation from the MAC if one had come, but Wednesday evening word came from the MAC that it would not be seeking expansion, with the caveat at the end of the release that “the Mid-American Conference will continue to monitor the membership landscape.”

Quote:“If we had been invited to join the MAC, we would have said yes. If we’re invited to join the MAC down the line, then I think the answer to that would probably be yes, because if it makes sense today, then I think it’s safe to assume it would make sense down the line,” Stewart said.

the whole interview with WKU's AD.
https://www.bgdailynews.com/sports/wku/c...9d68e.html

Regardless whether some at WKU may still be interested in the MAC, I'm not confident in the least that the MAC wants WKU alone. WKU may have been attractive as a bundle with MTSU but alone? Not so much.

I'm content with the new CUSA 4.0 for now. Several solid programs in football and basketball and it won't be held down by a lot of programs that are traditional dead weight. Those have moved on to the SBC and the AAC and are their problem now.