Utah also has a few billionaires, including the owner of the Jazz.

The biggest financial issue for an NHL team in both Portland and SLC is probably that the NBA team owner also owns the arena, so an NHL team would be a tenant without any of the other revenue that an arena owner or master lessee can make. That would also be an issue in Houston.

It’s not necessarily a deal breaker, but many team owners are also trying to capture arena revenue now, as in Seattle, Denver, in SF with the Warriors, in LA with the Clippers’ future arena, etc. The Coyotes owner wants to do this in Tempe but it looks like he doesn’t have his act together. This issue goes away if the same owner has all of the NBA team, the NHL team, and the arena. That’s the case in Denver, but it takes Kroenke’s level of wealth to do that.

(05-16-2022 11:09 AM)Wedge Wrote:  Utah also has a few billionaires, including the owner of the Jazz.

The biggest financial issue for an NHL team in both Portland and SLC is probably that the NBA team owner also owns the arena, so an NHL team would be a tenant without any of the other revenue that an arena owner or master lessee can make. That would also be an issue in Houston.

It’s not necessarily a deal breaker, but many team owners are also trying to capture arena revenue now, as in Seattle, Denver, in SF with the Warriors, in LA with the Clippers’ future arena, etc. The Coyotes owner wants to do this in Tempe but it looks like he doesn’t have his act together. This issue goes away if the same owner has all of the NBA team, the NHL team, and the arena. That’s the case in Denver, but it takes Kroenke’s level of wealth to do that.

I figured the team could just move to where the Utah Grizzlies play in the Maverick Center.

(05-16-2022 11:09 AM)Wedge Wrote:  Utah also has a few billionaires, including the owner of the Jazz.

The biggest financial issue for an NHL team in both Portland and SLC is probably that the NBA team owner also owns the arena, so an NHL team would be a tenant without any of the other revenue that an arena owner or master lessee can make. That would also be an issue in Houston.

It’s not necessarily a deal breaker, but many team owners are also trying to capture arena revenue now, as in Seattle, Denver, in SF with the Warriors, in LA with the Clippers’ future arena, etc. The Coyotes owner wants to do this in Tempe but it looks like he doesn’t have his act together. This issue goes away if the same owner has all of the NBA team, the NHL team, and the arena. That’s the case in Denver, but it takes Kroenke’s level of wealth to do that.

Considering that the Moda Center is nearly 30 years old, I don't see it outside the realm of possibility for the county to build a new arena and lease it to the Blazers and an NHL franchise. Portland is a growing metro area with enough room for both an NHL and NBA franchises. I cannot ever foresee a NFL or MLB team here ever. The demo's just don't favor either.

(05-17-2022 04:13 AM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  

(05-16-2022 11:09 AM)Wedge Wrote:  Utah also has a few billionaires, including the owner of the Jazz.

The biggest financial issue for an NHL team in both Portland and SLC is probably that the NBA team owner also owns the arena, so an NHL team would be a tenant without any of the other revenue that an arena owner or master lessee can make. That would also be an issue in Houston.

It’s not necessarily a deal breaker, but many team owners are also trying to capture arena revenue now, as in Seattle, Denver, in SF with the Warriors, in LA with the Clippers’ future arena, etc. The Coyotes owner wants to do this in Tempe but it looks like he doesn’t have his act together. This issue goes away if the same owner has all of the NBA team, the NHL team, and the arena. That’s the case in Denver, but it takes Kroenke’s level of wealth to do that.

Considering that the Moda Center is nearly 30 years old, I don't see it outside the realm of possibility for the county to build a new arena and lease it to the Blazers and an NHL franchise. Portland is a growing metro area with enough room for both an NHL and NBA franchises. I cannot ever foresee a NFL or MLB team here ever. The demo's just don't favor either.

Is Portland sports-crazy enough to build a new state-of-the-art arena at taxpayer expense and lease it out on team-friendly terms to NBA and NHL teams? Seems unlikely. One thing that might change that dynamic is if the Blazers are sold and a new owner threatens to move the team (maybe to Seattle).

Just catching up in this thread, why don't the Coyotes play where the Suns play?

(05-17-2022 02:34 PM)fsquid Wrote:  Just catching up in this thread, why don't the Coyotes play where the Suns play?

That is where they started. Arena not built for hockey, one goal sits UNDER the second deck. Recent renovations make it even more hockey-phobic. Plus the Suns' owner is a jerk that no one wants to deal with.

Thanks

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(05-17-2022 12:14 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(05-17-2022 04:13 AM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  

(05-16-2022 11:09 AM)Wedge Wrote:  Utah also has a few billionaires, including the owner of the Jazz.

The biggest financial issue for an NHL team in both Portland and SLC is probably that the NBA team owner also owns the arena, so an NHL team would be a tenant without any of the other revenue that an arena owner or master lessee can make. That would also be an issue in Houston.

It’s not necessarily a deal breaker, but many team owners are also trying to capture arena revenue now, as in Seattle, Denver, in SF with the Warriors, in LA with the Clippers’ future arena, etc. The Coyotes owner wants to do this in Tempe but it looks like he doesn’t have his act together. This issue goes away if the same owner has all of the NBA team, the NHL team, and the arena. That’s the case in Denver, but it takes Kroenke’s level of wealth to do that.

Considering that the Moda Center is nearly 30 years old, I don't see it outside the realm of possibility for the county to build a new arena and lease it to the Blazers and an NHL franchise. Portland is a growing metro area with enough room for both an NHL and NBA franchises. I cannot ever foresee a NFL or MLB team here ever. The demo's just don't favor either.

Is Portland sports-crazy enough to build a new state-of-the-art arena at taxpayer expense and lease it out on team-friendly terms to NBA and NHL teams? Seems unlikely. One thing that might change that dynamic is if the Blazers are sold and a new owner threatens to move the team (maybe to Seattle).

Honestly, Portland does not feel like a sports-crazy town. It's really nothing like Pittsburgh in any fashion. Precisely why I feel the demo doesn't favor football in any capacity. For instance, most bars tend to show SEC/Big10 games as opposed to Ducks/Beavers. There would never be a PSU or Pitt specific bar in Pittsburgh, unless you're on campus; otherwise, the average bar airs both as well as an array of games across the country. As for the Blazers, I sense they have some following, but even their games aren't aired in all bars, like the Penguins would be in Pittsburgh. The team that has a legit hardcore following is the Timbers. I think the average pro baseball and pro football fan in Portland are fans of existing teams and are transplants like myself, it'll be very difficult to convert those fans, like myself, into a Portland Athletics fan (for argument's sake). As for hockey, from my discussions with people at bars in Portland is that Portland has a deep hockey past, mostly minor league teams, and the Winterhawks do have a solid following, for being a junior hockey club in the CHL. And most of these people have projected that a NHL-based team would have a larger following than the Blazers. They could be wrong; I don't know.

Agree that existing NBA teams will probably keep the NHL from seriously looking into Portland, Salt Lake City, or other smaller metros (e.g. Sacramento, San Antonio, Milwaukee) indefinitely even if they'd be viable markets in the absence of pro basketball.

Alternatively, the lack of NBA in cities like Kansas City, Baltimore, Austin, and San Diego should be noted, though imo KC is probably the only one of those under any consideration based on the existence of the Sprint Center and generally solid fan support for an area its size.

Houston is a big enough metro area that they could probably support hockey like Dallas does as long as the team doesn't blow. The Toyota Center is owned by Harris County per Wikipedia so the Rockets might not be a huge deterrent, especially now that they're lousy.

Quebec City is low-hanging fruit, the NHL could move a team there and the city would support it in a heartbeat but the league doesn't want to since the long-term financial upside isn't as high for a small Canadian city that will watch hockey regardless of a local team being there. Getting the Coyotes to work in Arizona like the Lightning in Tampa or Preds in Nashville is much more lucrative if they could, but at a certain point you have to call it and start fresh elsewhere.

How long has the league been trying to keep a team alive in a market that is clearly unenthusiastic about supporting hockey?

It’s time to cut bait and find another city where they can soak the tax payers for the cost of an arena, preferably in the Central Time zone to make the divisions make more sense.

(05-22-2022 11:29 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  How long has the league been trying to keep a team alive in a market that is clearly unenthusiastic about supporting hockey?

It’s time to cut bait and find another city where they can soak the tax payers for the cost of an arena, preferably in the Central Time zone to make the divisions make more sense.

The NHL wants to keep the Arizona dream alive because Phoenix is one of the largest markets in the US and exiting means that they probably won't get another chance there again. The fact that the Lightning and Preds have ultimately thrived in southern cities (maybe now the Panthers too) is enough for them to keep trying, especially when it's not like the Coyotes have put together a consistently decent product on the ice to keep fans coming back. I agree that we're close to the point where you have to conclude that it is an unsuitable hockey market based on history and the current situation, but I see where the league is coming from.

Sure, the NHL could think that a team would be successful in Arizona if they ever had competent ownership -- like Las Vegas, also in the desert. Vegas has a successful NHL franchise, and the Phoenix area is a much better market for TV because it has 2.5 times as many TV homes as the Las Vegas area.

Houston has a few hundred thousand more TV homes than Phoenix, so it makes sense that it's the only market the TV-minded NHL office would want to leave Phoenix for.

(06-02-2022 09:23 AM)BobcatEngineer Wrote:  

It makes sense to Bettman because his priority is US television dollars, which, unlike ticket sales, are divided evenly among the teams.

Ten or more years ago, there was a joke about low NHL TV ratings that went something like, "The TV ratings are low because [Team Name] has 17,000 fans, and they're all inside the arena." Bettman's priority is to get larger TV contracts in the US by getting more people who never see an NHL game in person to watch the games on TV.

We might disagree with him on the best way to address that priority, or even whether that should be the league's priority, but that is why Bettman and the owners who support him are averse to Quebec City.

Texas has almost as many people as Canada and has one NHL team while Canada has six. Now, if you want to point out that 99.9% of Texans have never played ice hockey and never will, thus the NHL is much more likely to find its TV viewers in places where a much larger percentage of people have played and know the sport, that is a fair argument against the Bettman strategy.

Coyotes begin their college years at ASU's Mullett Arena

Coyotes' arena plan in Tempe rejected by voters; future cloudy

Let 'em come to Atlanta. Third time's the charm?

Wedge: is Phoenix less transient than LV?

Quote:Dennis Welch @dennis_welch

Latest: Mesa officials tell me the @ArizonaCoyotes reached out yesterday following their loss in Tempe. The team is eyeing the Fiesta Mall site - prime land in the East Valley‘s largest city. Caution: any potential arena deal there could require another public vote. #azfamily

12:33 PM · May 18, 2023

Arizona Coyotes reportedly inquire about Mesa’s Fiesta Mall site in arena land search

(05-17-2023 10:00 AM)Erictelevision Wrote:  Wedge: is Phoenix less transient than LV?

it sure is hotter, weather-wise.

(05-17-2023 10:00 AM)Erictelevision Wrote:  Wedge: is Phoenix less transient than LV?

Yes it is. LV is very transient.