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ACC vs SEC - Geographic Perspective for Clemson
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PAW79 Offline
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Post: #1
ACC vs SEC - Geographic Perspective for Clemson
From a culture perspective, Clemson fits both the SEC and ACC. A lot of Clemson fans would love to see us move to the SEC while a lot of Clemson fans would love to see us stay in the ACC.

Many of the ACC vs SEC conference issues (real or perceived) relevant to Clemson have been discussed ad nauseam on this board as well as many other boards. For something slightly different I wanted to take a look at the ACC vs SEC debate as it relates to Clemson from the perspective of geography (travel). Here are some ACC vs SEC geographic tidbits for Clemson (distances are rounded):

* The closest ACC/SEC school to Clemson is Georgia (75 miles). The closest ACC school to Clemson is Ga Tech (125 miles). Our in-state SEC rival (USC) is the 3rd closest school at 135 miles.

* The farthest ACC schools from Clemson are Syracuse (860 miles) and BC (945 miles). The farthest SEC schools today are Arkansas (830 miles) and Texas A&M (950 miles). Once Texas and Oklahoma are added, they will be the two farthest SEC schools - OU (985 miles) and Texas (1,025 miles).

* The top 6 closest schools to Clemson are UGA, GA Tech, USC, Tenn, WF, and Auburn (in order from closest to farthest). Four of the top 6 closest schools to Clemson are from the SEC.

* The average distance for the 6 ACC schools (GT, WF, UNC, Duke, NCSU, VT) closest to Clemson is 245 miles. The average distance for the 6 SEC schools (UGA, USC, Tenn, Aub, Bama, UK) closest to Clemson is 215 miles.

* The average distance from Clemson to the 7 ACC schools (GT, WF, NCSU, FSU, UL, SU, BC) that Clemson plays every year in football is 435 miles.

* The average distance from Clemson to all current ACC football schools is 440 miles (460 miles including ND). The average distance from Clemson to all current SEC schools (excluding Texas & OU) is the same at 440 miles. When Texas and OU are included, the SEC average distance becomes 510 miles.

Geographically, things are pretty much a wash between the ACC and SEC when it comes to Clemson. Changes to ACC divisions or moving to a division less format would most likely move things in favor of the ACC. However, if Clemson was to move to the SEC in an "eastern" division/pod, it would probably swing things in favor of the SEC.

I wonder how the ACC vs SEC geography works out for FSU? I would think the geography favors the ACC over either the SEC or BIG for the 4 NC schools as they are centrally located within the ACC footprint.
05-06-2022 06:39 PM
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Hokie Mark Online
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RE: ACC vs SEC - Geographic Perspective for Clemson
EXCELLENT INFO!

Very informative to know that Clemson is essentially at the "equilibrium point" between the ACC and SEC.

Without doing the math, I'm sure GT, FSU, and Miami are all closer to the SEC, while all other ACC schools are closer to the ACC.

If only the ACC had held onto South Carolina...
05-06-2022 07:49 PM
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XLance Online
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RE: ACC vs SEC - Geographic Perspective for Clemson
(05-06-2022 07:49 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  EXCELLENT INFO!

Very informative to know that Clemson is essentially at the "equilibrium point" between the ACC and SEC.

Without doing the math, I'm sure GT, FSU, and Miami are all closer to the SEC, while all other ACC schools are closer to the ACC.

If only the ACC had held onto South Carolina...

South Carolina was on the cusp of returning to the ACC three times.
05-07-2022 07:56 AM
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RE: ACC vs SEC - Geographic Perspective for Clemson
(05-06-2022 07:49 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  EXCELLENT INFO!

Very informative to know that Clemson is essentially at the "equilibrium point" between the ACC and SEC.

Without doing the math, I'm sure GT, FSU, and Miami are all closer to the SEC, while all other ACC schools are closer to the ACC.

If only the ACC had held onto South Carolina...


I'm not doing the math, but I would guess that Louisville is closer to the SEC schools than ACC schools. UK, Vandy, Tennessee, and Mizzou are closest. Compared to Va Tech, and Pitt.
05-07-2022 07:04 PM
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RE: ACC vs SEC - Geographic Perspective for Clemson
To many rivalry games amongst the SEC to form pods IMO. I think they would have to go divisionless or move some teams around to accommodate Texas and Oklahoma when they move in. Most likely move is Alabama and Auburn to the East, and you want Clemson there they wouldn’t see the playoffs IMO unless it expands.

A future SEC East side if divisions doesn’t happen is as followed with teams moved around for more cohesive travel etc.

Alabama, Auburn, Florida, Georgia, Tennessee, South Carolina, Kentucky, Vandy

Even if Clemson was added you will play a juggernaut of a schedule unless you dumb it down like Kentucky does, and doubt you would see light of day of a playoff, but in the ACC you are a top dog who sees the playoffs from where you stand currently. The only issue is the payout with this ridiculous contract with ESPN. Maybe the conference payout needs to be more of a reward payout than equal shares as it is now. Have the payouts based off the money sports of the conference and not as a whole.
(This post was last modified: 05-07-2022 10:38 PM by BigOwensboroCard.)
05-07-2022 09:19 PM
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PAW79 Offline
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RE: ACC vs SEC - Geographic Perspective for Clemson
(05-07-2022 09:19 PM)BigOwensboroCard Wrote:  To many rivalry games amongst the SEC to form pods IMO. I think they would have to go divisionless or move some teams around to accommodate Texas and Oklahoma when they move in. Most likely move is Alabama and Auburn to the East, and you want Clemson there they wouldn’t see the playoffs IMO unless it expands.

A future SEC East side if divisions doesn’t happen is as followed with teams moved around for more cohesive travel etc.

Alabama, Auburn, Florida, Georgia, Tennessee, South Carolina, Kentucky, Vandy

Even if Clemson was added you will play a juggernaut of a schedule unless you dumb it down like Kentucky does, and doubt you would see light of day of a playoff, but in the ACC you are a top dog who sees the playoffs from where you stand currently. The only issue is the payout with this ridiculous contract with ESPN. Maybe the conference payout needs to be more of a reward payout than equal shares as it is now. Have the payouts based off the money sports of the conference and not as a whole.

No question the schedule and the road to the playoffs would be tougher. I think Clemson would be very competitive in the SEC but certainly not like they have recently been in the ACC. The money aspect would definitely improve if Clemson was in the SEC as well as two other issues. 1) Recruiting would likely improve as we would no longer have to fight the SEC "mystique" and lose recruits that like Clemson but want to play in the SEC. 2) Along with the increase in schedule toughness would come an increase in interest level for the fans - playing the Bama's, UGA's, Auburn's, A&M's, Florida's would be much more exciting than playing WF, BC, Syracuse, etc..

I have no idea where this will all end up for Clemson or the ACC particularly with NIL and the portal now in play. A move to the SEC is not in Clemson's control so ultimately this SEC vs ACC debate for Clemson may end up being no debate at all. Personally, I would like to see Clemson in the SEC as our two biggest rivals (USC & UGA) are in the SEC. It would most likely come at the cost of a worse W-L record but I would take that as the trade off for the increase in money and more exciting games on a consistent basis. I would be fine with Clemson staying in the ACC if, and it is a very big IF, something can be done about the money disparity within a reasonable time frame.
05-08-2022 12:52 PM
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Hallcity Offline
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RE: ACC vs SEC - Geographic Perspective for Clemson
(05-08-2022 12:52 PM)PAW79 Wrote:  
(05-07-2022 09:19 PM)BigOwensboroCard Wrote:  To many rivalry games amongst the SEC to form pods IMO. I think they would have to go divisionless or move some teams around to accommodate Texas and Oklahoma when they move in. Most likely move is Alabama and Auburn to the East, and you want Clemson there they wouldn’t see the playoffs IMO unless it expands.

A future SEC East side if divisions doesn’t happen is as followed with teams moved around for more cohesive travel etc.

Alabama, Auburn, Florida, Georgia, Tennessee, South Carolina, Kentucky, Vandy

Even if Clemson was added you will play a juggernaut of a schedule unless you dumb it down like Kentucky does, and doubt you would see light of day of a playoff, but in the ACC you are a top dog who sees the playoffs from where you stand currently. The only issue is the payout with this ridiculous contract with ESPN. Maybe the conference payout needs to be more of a reward payout than equal shares as it is now. Have the payouts based off the money sports of the conference and not as a whole.

No question the schedule and the road to the playoffs would be tougher. I think Clemson would be very competitive in the SEC but certainly not like they have recently been in the ACC. The money aspect would definitely improve if Clemson was in the SEC as well as two other issues. 1) Recruiting would likely improve as we would no longer have to fight the SEC "mystique" and lose recruits that like Clemson but want to play in the SEC. 2) Along with the increase in schedule toughness would come an increase in interest level for the fans - playing the Bama's, UGA's, Auburn's, A&M's, Florida's would be much more exciting than playing WF, BC, Syracuse, etc..

I have no idea where this will all end up for Clemson or the ACC particularly with NIL and the portal now in play. A move to the SEC is not in Clemson's control so ultimately this SEC vs ACC debate for Clemson may end up being no debate at all. Personally, I would like to see Clemson in the SEC as our two biggest rivals (USC & UGA) are in the SEC. It would most likely come at the cost of a worse W-L record but I would take that as the trade off for the increase in money and more exciting games on a consistent basis. I would be fine with Clemson staying in the ACC if, and it is a very big IF, something can be done about the money disparity within a reasonable time frame.

Does the SEC want two schools in the small state of South Carolina? Seems doubtful to me.
05-09-2022 01:05 PM
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RE: ACC vs SEC - Geographic Perspective for Clemson
(05-09-2022 01:05 PM)Hallcity Wrote:  
(05-08-2022 12:52 PM)PAW79 Wrote:  
(05-07-2022 09:19 PM)BigOwensboroCard Wrote:  To many rivalry games amongst the SEC to form pods IMO. I think they would have to go divisionless or move some teams around to accommodate Texas and Oklahoma when they move in. Most likely move is Alabama and Auburn to the East, and you want Clemson there they wouldn’t see the playoffs IMO unless it expands.

A future SEC East side if divisions doesn’t happen is as followed with teams moved around for more cohesive travel etc.

Alabama, Auburn, Florida, Georgia, Tennessee, South Carolina, Kentucky, Vandy

Even if Clemson was added you will play a juggernaut of a schedule unless you dumb it down like Kentucky does, and doubt you would see light of day of a playoff, but in the ACC you are a top dog who sees the playoffs from where you stand currently. The only issue is the payout with this ridiculous contract with ESPN. Maybe the conference payout needs to be more of a reward payout than equal shares as it is now. Have the payouts based off the money sports of the conference and not as a whole.

No question the schedule and the road to the playoffs would be tougher. I think Clemson would be very competitive in the SEC but certainly not like they have recently been in the ACC. The money aspect would definitely improve if Clemson was in the SEC as well as two other issues. 1) Recruiting would likely improve as we would no longer have to fight the SEC "mystique" and lose recruits that like Clemson but want to play in the SEC. 2) Along with the increase in schedule toughness would come an increase in interest level for the fans - playing the Bama's, UGA's, Auburn's, A&M's, Florida's would be much more exciting than playing WF, BC, Syracuse, etc..

I have no idea where this will all end up for Clemson or the ACC particularly with NIL and the portal now in play. A move to the SEC is not in Clemson's control so ultimately this SEC vs ACC debate for Clemson may end up being no debate at all. Personally, I would like to see Clemson in the SEC as our two biggest rivals (USC & UGA) are in the SEC. It would most likely come at the cost of a worse W-L record but I would take that as the trade off for the increase in money and more exciting games on a consistent basis. I would be fine with Clemson staying in the ACC if, and it is a very big IF, something can be done about the money disparity within a reasonable time frame.

Does the SEC want two schools in the small state of South Carolina? Seems doubtful to me.

Two schools in Florida.....maybe, two in South Carolina...doubtful.
05-09-2022 02:02 PM
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Hokie Mark Online
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RE: ACC vs SEC - Geographic Perspective for Clemson
(05-09-2022 02:02 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(05-09-2022 01:05 PM)Hallcity Wrote:  
(05-08-2022 12:52 PM)PAW79 Wrote:  
(05-07-2022 09:19 PM)BigOwensboroCard Wrote:  To many rivalry games amongst the SEC to form pods IMO. I think they would have to go divisionless or move some teams around to accommodate Texas and Oklahoma when they move in. Most likely move is Alabama and Auburn to the East, and you want Clemson there they wouldn’t see the playoffs IMO unless it expands.

A future SEC East side if divisions doesn’t happen is as followed with teams moved around for more cohesive travel etc.

Alabama, Auburn, Florida, Georgia, Tennessee, South Carolina, Kentucky, Vandy

Even if Clemson was added you will play a juggernaut of a schedule unless you dumb it down like Kentucky does, and doubt you would see light of day of a playoff, but in the ACC you are a top dog who sees the playoffs from where you stand currently. The only issue is the payout with this ridiculous contract with ESPN. Maybe the conference payout needs to be more of a reward payout than equal shares as it is now. Have the payouts based off the money sports of the conference and not as a whole.

No question the schedule and the road to the playoffs would be tougher. I think Clemson would be very competitive in the SEC but certainly not like they have recently been in the ACC. The money aspect would definitely improve if Clemson was in the SEC as well as two other issues. 1) Recruiting would likely improve as we would no longer have to fight the SEC "mystique" and lose recruits that like Clemson but want to play in the SEC. 2) Along with the increase in schedule toughness would come an increase in interest level for the fans - playing the Bama's, UGA's, Auburn's, A&M's, Florida's would be much more exciting than playing WF, BC, Syracuse, etc..

I have no idea where this will all end up for Clemson or the ACC particularly with NIL and the portal now in play. A move to the SEC is not in Clemson's control so ultimately this SEC vs ACC debate for Clemson may end up being no debate at all. Personally, I would like to see Clemson in the SEC as our two biggest rivals (USC & UGA) are in the SEC. It would most likely come at the cost of a worse W-L record but I would take that as the trade off for the increase in money and more exciting games on a consistent basis. I would be fine with Clemson staying in the ACC if, and it is a very big IF, something can be done about the money disparity within a reasonable time frame.

Does the SEC want two schools in the small state of South Carolina? Seems doubtful to me.

Two schools in Florida.....maybe, two in South Carolina...doubtful.

The SEC would be fine with it. Question should be, how does ESPN feel about that?
07-coffee3
05-09-2022 03:18 PM
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RE: ACC vs SEC - Geographic Perspective for Clemson
(05-09-2022 03:18 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(05-09-2022 02:02 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(05-09-2022 01:05 PM)Hallcity Wrote:  
(05-08-2022 12:52 PM)PAW79 Wrote:  
(05-07-2022 09:19 PM)BigOwensboroCard Wrote:  To many rivalry games amongst the SEC to form pods IMO. I think they would have to go divisionless or move some teams around to accommodate Texas and Oklahoma when they move in. Most likely move is Alabama and Auburn to the East, and you want Clemson there they wouldn’t see the playoffs IMO unless it expands.

A future SEC East side if divisions doesn’t happen is as followed with teams moved around for more cohesive travel etc.

Alabama, Auburn, Florida, Georgia, Tennessee, South Carolina, Kentucky, Vandy

Even if Clemson was added you will play a juggernaut of a schedule unless you dumb it down like Kentucky does, and doubt you would see light of day of a playoff, but in the ACC you are a top dog who sees the playoffs from where you stand currently. The only issue is the payout with this ridiculous contract with ESPN. Maybe the conference payout needs to be more of a reward payout than equal shares as it is now. Have the payouts based off the money sports of the conference and not as a whole.

No question the schedule and the road to the playoffs would be tougher. I think Clemson would be very competitive in the SEC but certainly not like they have recently been in the ACC. The money aspect would definitely improve if Clemson was in the SEC as well as two other issues. 1) Recruiting would likely improve as we would no longer have to fight the SEC "mystique" and lose recruits that like Clemson but want to play in the SEC. 2) Along with the increase in schedule toughness would come an increase in interest level for the fans - playing the Bama's, UGA's, Auburn's, A&M's, Florida's would be much more exciting than playing WF, BC, Syracuse, etc..

I have no idea where this will all end up for Clemson or the ACC particularly with NIL and the portal now in play. A move to the SEC is not in Clemson's control so ultimately this SEC vs ACC debate for Clemson may end up being no debate at all. Personally, I would like to see Clemson in the SEC as our two biggest rivals (USC & UGA) are in the SEC. It would most likely come at the cost of a worse W-L record but I would take that as the trade off for the increase in money and more exciting games on a consistent basis. I would be fine with Clemson staying in the ACC if, and it is a very big IF, something can be done about the money disparity within a reasonable time frame.

Does the SEC want two schools in the small state of South Carolina? Seems doubtful to me.

Two schools in Florida.....maybe, two in South Carolina...doubtful.

The SEC would be fine with it. Question should be, how does ESPN feel about that?
07-coffee3

I don't think moves will have as much to do with geographic location (SC, NC, VA, etc.) as it will with creating compelling matchups for TV viewership. I'm sure the SEC would love to pick up the state of North Carolina for example but which televised game would garner the most eyeballs nationwide - Alabama vs NC State or Alabama vs Clemson? Again, a move to the SEC is not within Clemson's control so as Hokie Mark says, it all depends on what the SEC and/or ESPN want to accomplish.
05-09-2022 05:57 PM
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RE: ACC vs SEC - Geographic Perspective for Clemson
(05-09-2022 05:57 PM)PAW79 Wrote:  
(05-09-2022 03:18 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(05-09-2022 02:02 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(05-09-2022 01:05 PM)Hallcity Wrote:  
(05-08-2022 12:52 PM)PAW79 Wrote:  No question the schedule and the road to the playoffs would be tougher. I think Clemson would be very competitive in the SEC but certainly not like they have recently been in the ACC. The money aspect would definitely improve if Clemson was in the SEC as well as two other issues. 1) Recruiting would likely improve as we would no longer have to fight the SEC "mystique" and lose recruits that like Clemson but want to play in the SEC. 2) Along with the increase in schedule toughness would come an increase in interest level for the fans - playing the Bama's, UGA's, Auburn's, A&M's, Florida's would be much more exciting than playing WF, BC, Syracuse, etc..

I have no idea where this will all end up for Clemson or the ACC particularly with NIL and the portal now in play. A move to the SEC is not in Clemson's control so ultimately this SEC vs ACC debate for Clemson may end up being no debate at all. Personally, I would like to see Clemson in the SEC as our two biggest rivals (USC & UGA) are in the SEC. It would most likely come at the cost of a worse W-L record but I would take that as the trade off for the increase in money and more exciting games on a consistent basis. I would be fine with Clemson staying in the ACC if, and it is a very big IF, something can be done about the money disparity within a reasonable time frame.

Does the SEC want two schools in the small state of South Carolina? Seems doubtful to me.

Two schools in Florida.....maybe, two in South Carolina...doubtful.

The SEC would be fine with it. Question should be, how does ESPN feel about that?
07-coffee3

I don't think moves will have as much to do with geographic location (SC, NC, VA, etc.) as it will with creating compelling matchups for TV viewership. I'm sure the SEC would love to pick up the state of North Carolina for example but which televised game would garner the most eyeballs nationwide - Alabama vs NC State or Alabama vs Clemson? Again, a move to the SEC is not within Clemson's control so as Hokie Mark says, it all depends on what the SEC and/or ESPN want to accomplish.

No, the bolded is accurate. Everyone else simply gets paid enough to go along.
05-09-2022 06:06 PM
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RE: ACC vs SEC - Geographic Perspective for Clemson
(05-09-2022 05:57 PM)PAW79 Wrote:  
(05-09-2022 03:18 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(05-09-2022 02:02 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(05-09-2022 01:05 PM)Hallcity Wrote:  
(05-08-2022 12:52 PM)PAW79 Wrote:  No question the schedule and the road to the playoffs would be tougher. I think Clemson would be very competitive in the SEC but certainly not like they have recently been in the ACC. The money aspect would definitely improve if Clemson was in the SEC as well as two other issues. 1) Recruiting would likely improve as we would no longer have to fight the SEC "mystique" and lose recruits that like Clemson but want to play in the SEC. 2) Along with the increase in schedule toughness would come an increase in interest level for the fans - playing the Bama's, UGA's, Auburn's, A&M's, Florida's would be much more exciting than playing WF, BC, Syracuse, etc..

I have no idea where this will all end up for Clemson or the ACC particularly with NIL and the portal now in play. A move to the SEC is not in Clemson's control so ultimately this SEC vs ACC debate for Clemson may end up being no debate at all. Personally, I would like to see Clemson in the SEC as our two biggest rivals (USC & UGA) are in the SEC. It would most likely come at the cost of a worse W-L record but I would take that as the trade off for the increase in money and more exciting games on a consistent basis. I would be fine with Clemson staying in the ACC if, and it is a very big IF, something can be done about the money disparity within a reasonable time frame.

Does the SEC want two schools in the small state of South Carolina? Seems doubtful to me.

Two schools in Florida.....maybe, two in South Carolina...doubtful.

The SEC would be fine with it. Question should be, how does ESPN feel about that?
07-coffee3

I don't think moves will have as much to do with geographic location (SC, NC, VA, etc.) as it will with creating compelling matchups for TV viewership. I'm sure the SEC would love to pick up the state of North Carolina for example but which televised game would garner the most eyeballs nationwide - Alabama vs NC State or Alabama vs Clemson? Again, a move to the SEC is not within Clemson's control so as Hokie Mark says, it all depends on what the SEC and/or ESPN want to accomplish.

No, the bolded is accurate. Everyone else simply gets paid enough to go along.
05-09-2022 06:06 PM
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RE: ACC vs SEC - Geographic Perspective for Clemson
(05-07-2022 07:04 PM)Pervis_Griffith Wrote:  
(05-06-2022 07:49 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  EXCELLENT INFO!

Very informative to know that Clemson is essentially at the "equilibrium point" between the ACC and SEC.

Without doing the math, I'm sure GT, FSU, and Miami are all closer to the SEC, while all other ACC schools are closer to the ACC.

If only the ACC had held onto South Carolina...


I'm not doing the math, but I would guess that Louisville is closer to the SEC schools than ACC schools. UK, Vandy, Tennessee, and Mizzou are closest. Compared to Va Tech, and Pitt.

A recent thread here has the info:

https://www.csnbbs.com/thread-631317.html
05-10-2022 10:06 AM
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Hokie Mark Online
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RE: ACC vs SEC - Geographic Perspective for Clemson
(05-10-2022 10:06 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  
(05-07-2022 07:04 PM)Pervis_Griffith Wrote:  
(05-06-2022 07:49 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  EXCELLENT INFO!

Very informative to know that Clemson is essentially at the "equilibrium point" between the ACC and SEC.

Without doing the math, I'm sure GT, FSU, and Miami are all closer to the SEC, while all other ACC schools are closer to the ACC.

If only the ACC had held onto South Carolina...


I'm not doing the math, but I would guess that Louisville is closer to the SEC schools than ACC schools. UK, Vandy, Tennessee, and Mizzou are closest. Compared to Va Tech, and Pitt.

A recent thread here has the info:

https://www.csnbbs.com/thread-631317.html

[Image: AniConf2014.gif]

Who you callin' sprawlin'?
The ACC is just as compact* at the SEC!

Distances from Geographic Center of each P5
Conf. | Avg Distance | Closest | Furthest
SEC | 278.9 miles | Alabama | Texas AM
ACC | 279.3 miles | Wake Forest | Miami

* well, within 0.4 miles (0.1%)
(This post was last modified: 05-10-2022 10:48 AM by Hokie Mark.)
05-10-2022 10:46 AM
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