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Per Dodd - Big 12 Divisional Plans On Hold
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Crayton Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Per Dodd - Big 12 Divisional Plans On Hold
Mountain West eyeing a single division for 2023.
https://www.actionnetwork.com/ncaaf/moun...ttMcMurphy

You guys think they'll go as low as 2 permanent rivals or keep 5, just mixing up East and West a bit more (Boise-Fresno and Boise-Nevada were good series). Maybe they'll do something exotic.
05-05-2022 05:42 PM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Per Dodd - Big 12 Divisional Plans On Hold
(05-05-2022 05:42 PM)Crayton Wrote:  Mountain West eyeing a single division for 2023.
https://www.actionnetwork.com/ncaaf/moun...ttMcMurphy

You guys think they'll go as low as 2 permanent rivals or keep 5, just mixing up East and West a bit more (Boise-Fresno and Boise-Nevada were good series). Maybe they'll do something exotic.

If just 2 per team, maybe something like this:

Air Force: Colorado State, Wyoming
Boise State: Nevada, Utah State
Colorado State: Wyoming, Air Force
Fresno State: San Diego State, San Jose State
Hawaii: San Jose State, San Diego State
Nevada: UNLV, Boise State
New Mexico: Utah State, UNLV
San Diego State: Hawaii, Fresno State
San Jose State: Fresno State, Hawaii
UNLV: New Mexico, Nevada
Utah State: Boise State, New Mexico
Wyoming: Air Force, Colorado State

So there's an Air Force/CSU/Wyoming chain, a Fresno/SDSU/Hawaii/SJSU chain, and a Boise/Nevada/UNLV/UNM/USU chain.
05-05-2022 05:58 PM
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goofus Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Per Dodd - Big 12 Divisional Plans On Hold
(05-05-2022 05:42 PM)Crayton Wrote:  Mountain West eyeing a single division for 2023.
https://www.actionnetwork.com/ncaaf/moun...ttMcMurphy

You guys think they'll go as low as 2 permanent rivals or keep 5, just mixing up East and West a bit more (Boise-Fresno and Boise-Nevada were good series). Maybe they'll do something exotic.

Let's see. 8 conference games. 12 members. That works out to 5 permanent rivals and 6 teams you play 50% of the time. Which I know sounds a lot like divisions but it does not mean have to have to set up your 5 permant rivals like that.

Example of 5 permanent rivals setup
New Mexico - CSU, AFA, Wyoming, Nev, FSU
CSU - New Mexico, AFA, Wyoming, USU, Boise
AFA - NM, CSU, WY, USU, SDSU
WY - NM, CSU, AFA, USU, Nev

Boise - CSU, USU, UNLV, SDSU, Hawaii
USU - CSU, AFA, Boise, WY, UNLV
UNLV - SJSU, Nev, Boise, USU, Hawaii
Nev - UNLV, SJSU, FSU, NM, WY

SJSU - Nev, FSU, SDSU, Hawaii, UNLV
FSU - Nev, SJSU, SDSU, Hawaii, NM
SDSU - SJSU, FSU, Hawaii, Boise, AFA
Hawaii - SDSU, FSU, SJSU, Boise, UNLV
(This post was last modified: 05-06-2022 01:19 PM by goofus.)
05-06-2022 01:08 PM
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Crayton Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Per Dodd - Big 12 Divisional Plans On Hold
Math question. If you try and give teams “balanced” schedules, how many common opponents can you guarantee to any pair of teams who don’t have head to head? Record against Common Opponents would be a decent tie-breaker before having to resort to some ranking.

For example, I think in the Pac-12 you can guarantee 7 Common Opponents for any pair of teams. If Team A went 1-1 against extra opponents Oregon and Utah while team B went 2-0 against Colorado and California, Team A would get the spot in the CCG.

Now, say the SEC stayed at 8 games. You could guarantee 2. Maybe 3 or 4? But that would likely be too few to build a tie-breaker around. For the G5, because money is tied to the NY6, they’d use rankings as soon as head-to-head sweep fails.
05-06-2022 03:43 PM
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Post: #45
RE: Per Dodd - Big 12 Divisional Plans On Hold
(05-06-2022 03:43 PM)Crayton Wrote:  Math question. If you try and give teams “balanced” schedules, how many common opponents can you guarantee to any pair of teams who don’t have head to head? Record against Common Opponents would be a decent tie-breaker before having to resort to some ranking.

For example, I think in the Pac-12 you can guarantee 7 Common Opponents for any pair of teams. If Team A went 1-1 against extra opponents Oregon and Utah while team B went 2-0 against Colorado and California, Team A would get the spot in the CCG.

Now, say the SEC stayed at 8 games. You could guarantee 2. Maybe 3 or 4? But that would likely be too few to build a tie-breaker around. For the G5, because money is tied to the NY6, they’d use rankings as soon as head-to-head sweep fails.
If two Pac-12 teams don't play each other, then they have to each play 9 of the other 10 teams. So let's say Oregon State doesn't play Colorado, but they tied for second in the division-less standings.

Oregon State picks its 9 opponents, and plays all but Arizona. Colorado then picks Arizona to avoid a common opponent. But its other 8 opponents necessarily include a team picked by Oregon State. They choose all but Cal.

Oregon State and Colorado will have 8 common opponents, and each have a "non-common" opponent: Oregon State will play Cal, but not Arizona. Colorado will play Arizona, but not Cal.

Let's assume Oregon State beat Cal, and Colorado beat Arizona. Since we assumed that Oregon State and Colorado tied in the standings - we would not need a tie breaker otherwise, then their result against their common 8 opponents would be the same.

A typical procedure in that case would then be to compare games against common opponents based on standings. Washington was undefeated, so both Oregon State and Colorado lost to Washington.

We might end up comparing our two tied teams against the 4th, 5th, etc. teams (while skipping Arizona and Cal). We may end up not being able to resolve the tie without considering away games or points scored.
05-06-2022 07:55 PM
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Post: #46
RE: Per Dodd - Big 12 Divisional Plans On Hold
(05-06-2022 07:55 PM)jimrtex Wrote:  
(05-06-2022 03:43 PM)Crayton Wrote:  Math question. If you try and give teams “balanced” schedules, how many common opponents can you guarantee to any pair of teams who don’t have head to head? Record against Common Opponents would be a decent tie-breaker before having to resort to some ranking.

For example, I think in the Pac-12 you can guarantee 7 Common Opponents for any pair of teams. If Team A went 1-1 against extra opponents Oregon and Utah while team B went 2-0 against Colorado and California, Team A would get the spot in the CCG.

Now, say the SEC stayed at 8 games. You could guarantee 2. Maybe 3 or 4? But that would likely be too few to build a tie-breaker around. For the G5, because money is tied to the NY6, they’d use rankings as soon as head-to-head sweep fails.
If two Pac-12 teams don't play each other, then they have to each play 9 of the other 10 teams. So let's say Oregon State doesn't play Colorado, but they tied for second in the division-less standings.

Oregon State picks its 9 opponents, and plays all but Arizona. Colorado then picks Arizona to avoid a common opponent. But its other 8 opponents necessarily include a team picked by Oregon State. They choose all but Cal.

Oregon State and Colorado will have 8 common opponents, and each have a "non-common" opponent: Oregon State will play Cal, but not Arizona. Colorado will play Arizona, but not Cal.

Let's assume Oregon State beat Cal, and Colorado beat Arizona. Since we assumed that Oregon State and Colorado tied in the standings - we would not need a tie breaker otherwise, then their result against their common 8 opponents would be the same.

A typical procedure in that case would then be to compare games against common opponents based on standings. Washington was undefeated, so both Oregon State and Colorado lost to Washington.

We might end up comparing our two tied teams against the 4th, 5th, etc. teams (while skipping Arizona and Cal). We may end up not being able to resolve the tie without considering away games or points scored.

Yes. Especially in a 14 team league, you get into obscure tiebreakers. I think its pretty stupid to turn it into a coin flip instead of deciding it on the field (obviously not every year, but it will happen frequently getting down to the 4th or 5th tiebreak-look at the NFL). Most of the people liking divisionless ccgs by contrast, want to expand the playoff to decide it on the field.
05-06-2022 10:17 PM
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MWC Tex Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Per Dodd - Big 12 Divisional Plans On Hold
(05-05-2022 05:42 PM)Crayton Wrote:  Mountain West eyeing a single division for 2023.
https://www.actionnetwork.com/ncaaf/moun...ttMcMurphy

You guys think they'll go as low as 2 permanent rivals or keep 5, just mixing up East and West a bit more (Boise-Fresno and Boise-Nevada were good series). Maybe they'll do something exotic.

I like the division setup. Going divisionless will have more problems. Especially when 3 or 4 teams have the same record.
05-06-2022 10:43 PM
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Post: #48
RE: Per Dodd - Big 12 Divisional Plans On Hold
Mountain West, like the Pac-12, can easily have 3 groups of 4 football teams who play each other every year and also play 3 of the 4 teams in the other 2 groups.

Wyoming, CSU, AFA, UNM
Boise St, Utah St, Nevada, UNLV
SJSU, Fresno St, SDSU, Hawaii

That’s 9 conference games. If the MWC wanted to play only 8, then using 4 groups of 3 allows for regular rotation of all opponents.
05-07-2022 12:58 AM
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RUScarlets Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Per Dodd - Big 12 Divisional Plans On Hold
Big 12 could also do 3 groups of 4, something like:

WVU/UCF/UC
ISU/KU/KSU
OSU/TCU/TTech
BYU/Houston/Baylor

Otherwise, I'd prefer 4 groups of 3 as I laid out earlier somewhere in the thread.
05-07-2022 09:44 AM
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CatsClaw1 Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Per Dodd - Big 12 Divisional Plans On Hold
I think what you're going to see happen is the Big 12 and other conferences go divisionless but schedule as if they're in divisions or pods but with permanent opponents pre-set.
05-12-2022 07:43 AM
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Post: #51
RE: Per Dodd - Big 12 Divisional Plans On Hold
(05-06-2022 10:43 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  
(05-05-2022 05:42 PM)Crayton Wrote:  Mountain West eyeing a single division for 2023.
https://www.actionnetwork.com/ncaaf/moun...ttMcMurphy

You guys think they'll go as low as 2 permanent rivals or keep 5, just mixing up East and West a bit more (Boise-Fresno and Boise-Nevada were good series). Maybe they'll do something exotic.

I like the division setup. Going divisionless will have more problems. Especially when 3 or 4 teams have the same record.

Yes. Its going away from deciding things on the field. We're going to NFL type tiebreakers, but we don't have 1/3 of the league playing off for the title.
05-12-2022 09:10 AM
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