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US News College Ranking contest: Rank JMU
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CarRamrod Offline
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Post: #181
RE: US News College Ranking contest: Rank JMU
(09-18-2023 02:02 PM)jmu98 Wrote:  
(09-18-2023 01:42 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  
(09-18-2023 06:54 AM)CarRamrod Wrote:  
(09-18-2023 01:56 AM)Longhorn Wrote:  
(09-17-2023 11:09 PM)DooX Wrote:  Up to #124 Nationally (was #151) and #64 Public (was #72) for 2024.

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/jam...rsity-3721

Improving. IMO lack of professional and graduate programs are holding JMU back. JMU’s immediate target should be to make the list of top 100 national universities, and top 40 publics.

Yes, but impressive to see JMU tied with schools like the University of Missouri and one spot behind AAU newcomer the University of Utah. It is a credit to our faculty and staff and the quality of undergraduate education. Any growth in the areas you mention should put those goals within reach.

I know I'm biased as an alum but as someone in academia, I tell anyone who will listen that JMU offers a top 10 undergraduate experience.

Not sure I’d place JMU in the top 10 as an undergrad experience (too subjective I suppose), however, I’m not aware of any institution that offers a better undergraduate experience than JMU. I based my statement on nearly 40 years in higher ed and literally dozens of accreditation visits and service on accreditation commissions. JMU is top tier as an undergraduate institution.

Aren't these rankings in regards to undergraduate education? Not sure why their graduate schools should even be much of a factor as USNWR ranks the graduate schools separately any way. Any notice how far down Wake Forest was? There is no way some of those schools above them are even close as far as undergrad education goes.

Not really, the methodology is based on a bunch of indicators, but there are several that are more indicative of graduate education. For example, 3.5% is related to the publication rates and quality of publications by the faculty. That almost always going to be higher at large R1s with large graduate student populations. Faculty salaries actually account for 6% which is one of the more peculiar "indicators" seeing as some of that would be based on the geographic situation of the institution. The most silly part of the whole thing is 20% (the largest indicator) is based on "peer assessment". This is so subjective and a black-box but I suspect academic reputation and peer assessment is based more on research productivity, graduate education, endowment, etc. I am sure the AAU schools help inflate each others' scores there.
09-18-2023 02:10 PM
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We Are the Dukes of JMU Offline
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Post: #182
RE: US News College Ranking contest: Rank JMU
(09-18-2023 02:02 PM)jmu98 Wrote:  
(09-18-2023 01:42 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  
(09-18-2023 06:54 AM)CarRamrod Wrote:  
(09-18-2023 01:56 AM)Longhorn Wrote:  
(09-17-2023 11:09 PM)DooX Wrote:  Up to #124 Nationally (was #151) and #64 Public (was #72) for 2024.

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/jam...rsity-3721

Improving. IMO lack of professional and graduate programs are holding JMU back. JMU’s immediate target should be to make the list of top 100 national universities, and top 40 publics.

Yes, but impressive to see JMU tied with schools like the University of Missouri and one spot behind AAU newcomer the University of Utah. It is a credit to our faculty and staff and the quality of undergraduate education. Any growth in the areas you mention should put those goals within reach.

I know I'm biased as an alum but as someone in academia, I tell anyone who will listen that JMU offers a top 10 undergraduate experience.

Not sure I’d place JMU in the top 10 as an undergrad experience (too subjective I suppose), however, I’m not aware of any institution that offers a better undergraduate experience than JMU. I based my statement on nearly 40 years in higher ed and literally dozens of accreditation visits and service on accreditation commissions. JMU is top tier as an undergraduate institution.

Aren't these rankings in regards to undergraduate education? Not sure why their graduate schools should even be much of a factor as USNWR ranks the graduate schools separately any way. Any notice how far down Wake Forest was? There is no way some of those schools above them are even close as far as undergrad education goes.

The changes in the methodology seem to have benefitted large schools the most. Removal of class size as a consideration likely plays a role in VT passing W&M.

In general, very large state schools seem to have benefitted the most from the change, at the expense of others.
(This post was last modified: 09-18-2023 02:14 PM by We Are the Dukes of JMU.)
09-18-2023 02:13 PM
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olddawg Offline
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Post: #183
RE: US News College Ranking contest: Rank JMU
UMass over Tulane kinda surprised me,
09-18-2023 02:21 PM
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bcp_jmu Offline
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Post: #184
RE: US News College Ranking contest: Rank JMU
that's great news - not a fan of them taking out the student:teacher data....but these things will continue to evolve

if we crack the top 100 at some point, that would be astounding

pharmacy? constitutional law? vet school? dental school? (assuming we never do a med school, or is that no longer a valid assumption?)
09-18-2023 03:24 PM
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JMaddy Offline
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Post: #185
RE: US News College Ranking contest: Rank JMU
(09-18-2023 03:24 PM)bcp_jmu Wrote:  that's great news - not a fan of them taking out the student:teacher data....but these things will continue to evolve

if we crack the top 100 at some point, that would be astounding

pharmacy? constitutional law? vet school? dental school? (assuming we never do a med school, or is that no longer a valid assumption?)

All of those plus expand Engineering Undergraduate and Graduate schools to include mechanical engineering, biomedical engineering, aerospace engineering, electrical and robotics engineering, & chemical engineering. Do all those things and we'll be back above VT where we belong.
09-18-2023 04:13 PM
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Longhorn Offline
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Post: #186
RE: US News College Ranking contest: Rank JMU
(09-18-2023 04:13 PM)JMaddy Wrote:  
(09-18-2023 03:24 PM)bcp_jmu Wrote:  that's great news - not a fan of them taking out the student:teacher data....but these things will continue to evolve

if we crack the top 100 at some point, that would be astounding

pharmacy? constitutional law? vet school? dental school? (assuming we never do a med school, or is that no longer a valid assumption?)

All of those plus expand Engineering Undergraduate and Graduate schools to include mechanical engineering, biomedical engineering, aerospace engineering, electrical and robotics engineering, & chemical engineering. Do all those things and we'll be back above VT where we belong.

Your suggestion of creating multiple specialized engineering categories at JMU will not happen in our lifetimes.
09-18-2023 04:19 PM
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JMaddy Offline
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Post: #187
RE: US News College Ranking contest: Rank JMU
(09-18-2023 04:19 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  
(09-18-2023 04:13 PM)JMaddy Wrote:  
(09-18-2023 03:24 PM)bcp_jmu Wrote:  that's great news - not a fan of them taking out the student:teacher data....but these things will continue to evolve

if we crack the top 100 at some point, that would be astounding

pharmacy? constitutional law? vet school? dental school? (assuming we never do a med school, or is that no longer a valid assumption?)

All of those plus expand Engineering Undergraduate and Graduate schools to include mechanical engineering, biomedical engineering, aerospace engineering, electrical and robotics engineering, & chemical engineering. Do all those things and we'll be back above VT where we belong.

Your suggestion of creating multiple specialized engineering categories at JMU will not happen in our lifetimes.

I can dream, can't I? 04-cheers
09-18-2023 04:20 PM
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Longhorn Offline
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Post: #188
RE: US News College Ranking contest: Rank JMU
(09-18-2023 02:10 PM)CarRamrod Wrote:  
(09-18-2023 02:02 PM)jmu98 Wrote:  
(09-18-2023 01:42 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  
(09-18-2023 06:54 AM)CarRamrod Wrote:  
(09-18-2023 01:56 AM)Longhorn Wrote:  Improving. IMO lack of professional and graduate programs are holding JMU back. JMU’s immediate target should be to make the list of top 100 national universities, and top 40 publics.

Yes, but impressive to see JMU tied with schools like the University of Missouri and one spot behind AAU newcomer the University of Utah. It is a credit to our faculty and staff and the quality of undergraduate education. Any growth in the areas you mention should put those goals within reach.

I know I'm biased as an alum but as someone in academia, I tell anyone who will listen that JMU offers a top 10 undergraduate experience.

Not sure I’d place JMU in the top 10 as an undergrad experience (too subjective I suppose), however, I’m not aware of any institution that offers a better undergraduate experience than JMU. I based my statement on nearly 40 years in higher ed and literally dozens of accreditation visits and service on accreditation commissions. JMU is top tier as an undergraduate institution.

Aren't these rankings in regards to undergraduate education? Not sure why their graduate schools should even be much of a factor as USNWR ranks the graduate schools separately any way. Any notice how far down Wake Forest was? There is no way some of those schools above them are even close as far as undergrad education goes.

Not really, the methodology is based on a bunch of indicators, but there are several that are more indicative of graduate education. For example, 3.5% is related to the publication rates and quality of publications by the faculty. That almost always going to be higher at large R1s with large graduate student populations. Faculty salaries actually account for 6% which is one of the more peculiar "indicators" seeing as some of that would be based on the geographic situation of the institution. The most silly part of the whole thing is 20% (the largest indicator) is based on "peer assessment". This is so subjective and a black-box but I suspect academic reputation and peer assessment is based more on research productivity, graduate education, endowment, etc. I am sure the AAU schools help inflate each others' scores there.

^
Excellent post. The advantages of R1s in research publications is a reality, which (when tied to graduate programs) bears directly on JMU’s peer assessment. While JMU already enjoys a great (and growing) rep for its strong undergraduate programs, JMU doesn’t graduate the number of advanced degrees (PhDs specifically) that then go on to occupy positions in academia that influence peer assessment.

USNWR rankings are flawed in so many ways, and it’s a dastardly game that’s skewed to favor the usual institutions. It’s a game that JMU must participate in no matter how biased, however, and it’s to JMU’s credit that it’s making progress. In its own way, USNWR rankings are akin to G5s trying to bust into the AP top 25…JMU can do it, but perceptions are against the Dukes.
09-18-2023 04:42 PM
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CharlestonDuke Offline
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Post: #189
RE: US News College Ranking contest: Rank JMU
(09-18-2023 04:42 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  USNWR rankings are flawed in so many ways, and it’s a dastardly game that’s skewed to favor the usual institutions. It’s a game that JMU must participate in no matter how biased, however, and it’s to JMU’s credit that it’s making progress. In its own way, USNWR rankings are akin to G5s trying to bust into the AP top 25…JMU can do it, but perceptions are against the Dukes.

I am very pleased with the 27 spot improvement over the prior year, even though it’s still too low. I was disappointed with our initial ranking as it didn’t reflect my personal experience choosing JMU’s honors program over VT and Maryland. I was quick to blame Alger’s scaling and my perception that admissions standards have been lowered. Thanks LH and Car for providing more detail in how skewed these ratings are. It does very much feel like JMU moving from FCS to G5 (to eventually ACC 04-rock) We all know the education is at that level already.

Quick anecdote. I drove through Clemson’s campus coming home from a camping trip last weekend. Wow! Not the safety school from 20 years ago. It’s amazing what football success has done for that school. Application demand goes up and acceptance rate goes down. It becomes a vicious cycle where the low acceptance rate becomes part of the perception the school is “better”. I mention all of this to underscore how important these AP sports rankings and on field successes are. They not only drive athletes but students in general.
11-15-2023 08:42 AM
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94computerguy Offline
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Post: #190
RE: US News College Ranking contest: Rank JMU
(09-18-2023 04:19 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  
(09-18-2023 04:13 PM)JMaddy Wrote:  
(09-18-2023 03:24 PM)bcp_jmu Wrote:  that's great news - not a fan of them taking out the student:teacher data....but these things will continue to evolve

if we crack the top 100 at some point, that would be astounding

pharmacy? constitutional law? vet school? dental school? (assuming we never do a med school, or is that no longer a valid assumption?)

All of those plus expand Engineering Undergraduate and Graduate schools to include mechanical engineering, biomedical engineering, aerospace engineering, electrical and robotics engineering, & chemical engineering. Do all those things and we'll be back above VT where we belong.

Your suggestion of creating multiple specialized engineering categories at JMU will not happen in our lifetimes.

I'm doing my best -- I am trying to get JMU to start a program building tiny (think toaster-sized) satellites to do x-ray astronomy. When JMU starts cranking out legit rocket scientists, look out.
11-15-2023 12:04 PM
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