Ok, we've seen plenty of split-off and breakaway threads here there and everywhere.

Many numbers are brought up, but 60 seems to be the mean/average, and works well enough, I think, for this. (if you decide you want brackets for a playoff, no foul against going up to 64 for that, I suppose.)

So here's the proposition:

Imagine that there's an agreement to a 60 team carve out.

4 are automatically in as independents - Army, Navy, Notre Dame, and BYU.

So that leaves two groups of 28, or four of 14, or whatever other way you would like to do this.

So in your opinion, what schools make the cut, and how would they be grouped? (And of course, why : )

I posted something along these lines in another thread, but in that, I presumed the B10 and the SEC would be intact for this. But for this thread, we do not need to presume that. I'm still giving some thought as to who might be left behind/disincluded.

I look forward to everyone's ideas : )

Start with the 69 P5 teams in 2023. This includes BYU in Big 12, ND as independent.

Add Army, Navy as independents (Not my idea, this was a condition of original post)

Remove Oregon St, Washington St from PAC
Remove Vandy from SEC
Remove Wake Forest, Duke, BC from ACC
Remove NW, Rutgers from Big Ten
Remove Hou, Cincy, UCF from Big 12[/code]

Why would we do this?

I never understand these threads. It always devolves into an exercise about discussing why a certain handful of schools (e.g. Wake Forest, Washington State) should be power schools or not.

There might be a break-off of the power leagues from the rest of the non-power leagues or there might not be. There might a true "super league" of teams or that might never happen. I'm personal skeptical of those things happening, but they'd be at least rooted in a fundamental structural change that can make a lot of economic sense to at least the "winners" involved.

However, I don't believe that there's going to be a lot of movement for the sake of getting rid of a small handful of schools from the power ranks. As I've been saying a lot lately, the juice needs to be worth the squeeze.

I'd go alphabetically.

First 60 are in.

(04-28-2022 01:57 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  I never understand these threads. It always devolves into an exercise about discussing why a certain handful of schools (e.g. Wake Forest, Washington State) should be power schools or not.

There might be a break-off of the power leagues from the rest of the non-power leagues or there might not be. There might a true "super league" of teams or that might never happen. I'm personal skeptical of those things happening, but they'd be at least rooted in a fundamental structural change that can make a lot of economic sense to at least the "winners" involved.

However, I don't believe that there's going to be a lot of movement for the sake of getting rid of a small handful of schools from the power ranks. As I've been saying a lot lately, the juice needs to be worth the squeeze.

Agree. If any current power school is no longer a power school in the future, it would be at their own volition.

I do think these exercises are fun if you are discussing smaller number like 24-48. Anything higher and everyone is excluding the same schools.

It would depend on the vision they're wanting to create

Do you take only teams from the P5 landscape and just cut thr bottom 10 or so?
Do you call up some G5s based on performance (being a regular in the top 25)?
Do you take schools based solely on money like Liberty?
Do you take weaker teams, like Charlotte or MTSU, who have market value potential?
What about service academies?

And at what point does it start to look like what we have now, only making it 3 tiered instead of 2

I'd make a pro league.

Survey the programs that are willing to pay the players salaries and benefits. Make it a step latter salary based on seniority not playing time.
$100,000 for Freshmen
$200,000 for Sophomores
$300,000 for Juniors
$400,000 for Senior and Grad Transfers
NIL deals would still exists but they are considered endorsement deals that have nothing to do with the league. So star recruits can still go out and get and extra $400,000 from a NIL collective. Players can hire agents to make deals for them. The agents will be able to go through these NIL deals and make sure there is nothing harmful in them. Agents might be able to convince a player to say at a program because there isn't a better option in the portal.

The league owns the media rights for everyone, so its 1 major deal divided equally.

Its essentially the NFL but with college teams and free education.

Some of the P5 teams will drop out. This strays too far away from their academic principles. That's fine, they can stay in the amateurs' league.

(04-28-2022 02:04 PM)inutech Wrote:  I'd go alphabetically.

First 60 are in.

Alphabetically by the current Chancellor's first name. It changes every time a new chancellor is named, so now universities will spend extravagantly to get as many Aarons and Abbies in charge as possible.

Which 60?
1) This is a Football-Only Association. Universities can keep their teams in traditional all-sports conferences.
2) SEC and B1G get their 30 teams in on a permanent basis.
3) 15 other teams get permanent franchises (UW, UO, USC, UCLA, ASU, Colo, Stan, Cal, Utah, ND, FSU, Clem, VT, KSU, OKSt, TCU)
4) 15 spots are determined via a convoluted pro/rel system.

Alignment and Schedule?
1) The 60 teams are broken into 9 sets of 6 teams, with a 10th set that is nominally "independent" (no internal round-robin).
2) Every year, the B1G, SEC, and 15 Franchises each conference together to determine 3 divisions apiece; teams may make themselves available for a different grouping (ex. Missouri may elect to join a B1G division, if invited).
3) Up to 6 teams (like ND) can elect to be independent, otherwise those teams not chosen for one of the 9 divisions will be independent.
4) 10 opponents are AD controlled; this includes 5 division games for the non-independents and no more than 2 non-Association opponents (ie Kent St)
5) 2 (or more, depending on how many of those 10 AD games were filled) opponents are then chosen by an algorithm to balance teams' 10-game Association schedules. The schedule itself is also driven by algorithm, with certain constraints (FSU vs. UF Thanksgiving weekend, et al).

Postseason?
1) 16 team playoff: 9 division winners, 7 at larges. Record in 10-game Association schedule determines division winners and playoff seed. No committee or rankings; tie-breakers similar to the NFL.
2) Eight Bowl Games between the best sub-60 teams (subject to certain minimums) to replace the 8 worst non-franchise teams in the 60. If this would "relegate" a non-franchise team with a 6-6 record, or better, that team will participate in one of these Eight Bowls.
3) Remainder of bowl season remains the same, with "best" bowls between 6-6 or better teams from the Top-60 Association with myriad "minor" bowls between sub-60 teams to fill the December TV schedule.

Notes. The Why
1) Pro/Rel and the (up to) 2 non-Association games keep money flowing downhill to FBS and FCS
2) I picked "15" non-SEC/B1G teams to be given permanent status, but the goal should be for this number to be smaller and/or consist only of those teams whose minimum value (value in down years) is better than the average replacement value.
3) Agnostic about first-round playoff games in Atlanta, Indianapolis, and others to succeed CCGs.
4) "Minimums" for playing in the Eight promotion bowls may include stadium size, scholarships, attendance, and even multi-year on-the-field performance. These likely won't be too much higher than current FBS "minimums" but they should be easier to enforce because there is no grandfather clause preventing teams from being relegated.
5) Money to 15 non-Franchise teams is distributed over 6 years, so teams make "full" pay only after 6 consecutive years in the Association. And, when teams are relegated, they still get partial payments for the next 5 years, to ease their finances. Universities are welcome to invest portions of their TV money into longer-termed annuities.
6) Profits are distributed directly to teams. If Nebraska and Missouri want to re-join the Big 12 in all-sports, that does not affect their permanent revenue status in the Association. This also means the future conference media deals will primarily be for basketball.
7) Another look: a 24-team playoff, with 9 division winners and 3 best at larges given home games, sounds like a stellar setup.

I see a post with Northwestern removed from the 60 team league. Northwestern brings in a lot of money with their athletics, they aren't going anywhere.

(04-28-2022 12:54 PM)Skyhawk Wrote:  Ok, we've seen plenty of split-off and breakaway threads here there and everywhere.

Many numbers are brought up, but 60 seems to be the mean/average, and works well enough, I think, for this. (if you decide you want brackets for a playoff, no foul against going up to 64 for that, I suppose.)

So here's the proposition:

Imagine that there's an agreement to a 60 team carve out.

4 are automatically in as independents - Army, Navy, Notre Dame, and BYU.

So that leaves two groups of 28, or four of 14, or whatever other way you would like to do this.

So in your opinion, what schools make the cut, and how would they be grouped? (And of course, why : )

I posted something along these lines in another thread, but in that, I presumed the B10 and the SEC would be intact for this. But for this thread, we do not need to presume that. I'm still giving some thought as to who might be left behind/disincluded.

I look forward to everyone's ideas : )

The division should be done on a sport basis - and should not be static.

The problem with creating an FBS playoff is the wide disparity in quality. Put a random MAC team in the B1G and they will finish 15th. Put the best MAC team in the B1G and they might finish 8th or 9th. They are at least competitive.

Keep the conferences as they are. They might continue to be used for other sports. So for FBS (or more properly DI) football you have 8 groups of 9 schools each. With 9 schools, each gets 4 home games in a round-robin, which is important for fairness in determining group standings. Top 2 in each group enter the playoffs.

Have the same set up for the next tiers. The bottom two in the Top Tier might be relegated to the 2nd Tier or at least face a playoff.

(04-28-2022 01:57 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  I never understand these threads. It always devolves into an exercise about discussing why a certain handful of schools (e.g. Wake Forest, Washington State) should be power schools or not.

There might be a break-off of the power leagues from the rest of the non-power leagues or there might not be. There might a true "super league" of teams or that might never happen. I'm personal skeptical of those things happening, but they'd be at least rooted in a fundamental structural change that can make a lot of economic sense to at least the "winners" involved.

However, I don't believe that there's going to be a lot of movement for the sake of getting rid of a small handful of schools from the power ranks. As I've been saying a lot lately, the juice needs to be worth the squeeze.

Amen. People love to look at realignment with a top-down, Czar-like approach where you're just plotting schools/teams into a grid in excel.

Anyone can draw that up and make something "logical," but it completely ignores SELF DETERMINATION of schools and conferences.

There isn't going to be a college alignment "fantasy draft" ever.

1. Include my school
2. Include 59 schools I like
done

(04-28-2022 01:36 PM)goofus Wrote:  Start with the 69 P5 teams in 2023. This includes BYU in Big 12, ND as independent.

Add Army, Navy as independents (Not my idea, this was a condition of original post)

Remove Oregon St, Washington St from PAC
Remove Vandy from SEC
Remove Wake Forest, Duke, BC from ACC
Remove NW, Rutgers from Big Ten
Remove Hou, Cincy, UCF from Big 12[/code]

Kansas State is in but Vandy and Duke are out. SMH.

(04-29-2022 10:27 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  1. Include my school
2. Include 59 schools I like
done

Pretty much.

(04-28-2022 05:50 PM)JSchmack Wrote:  

(04-28-2022 01:57 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  I never understand these threads. It always devolves into an exercise about discussing why a certain handful of schools (e.g. Wake Forest, Washington State) should be power schools or not.

There might be a break-off of the power leagues from the rest of the non-power leagues or there might not be. There might a true "super league" of teams or that might never happen. I'm personal skeptical of those things happening, but they'd be at least rooted in a fundamental structural change that can make a lot of economic sense to at least the "winners" involved.

However, I don't believe that there's going to be a lot of movement for the sake of getting rid of a small handful of schools from the power ranks. As I've been saying a lot lately, the juice needs to be worth the squeeze.

Amen. People love to look at realignment with a top-down, Czar-like approach where you're just plotting schools/teams into a grid in excel.

Anyone can draw that up and make something "logical," but it completely ignores SELF DETERMINATION of schools and conferences.

There isn't going to be a college alignment "fantasy draft" ever.

Yep.

Western Conference
1. SDSU
2. UCLA
3. USC
4. Stanford
5. Oregon
6. Washington
7. Arizona
8. Arizona St.
9. Utah
10. BYU
11. Colorado
12. Air Force

Southern Conference
1. Ole Miss
2. Alabama
3. Auburn
4. Georgia
5. Georgia Tech
6. Florida
7. Florida State
8. Miami
9. UCF
10. South Carolina
11. Clemson
12. Tennessee

Central Conference
1. Oklahoma
2. Oklahoma St
3. Kansas
4. Missouri
5. Arkansas
6. Nebraska
7. Texas
8. Texas A&M
9. Texas Tech
10. Houston
11. LSU
12. Boise St.

Atlantic Conference
1. UNC
2. NC State
3. Virginia
4. Virginia Tech
5. Navy
6. Maryland
7. Penn State
8. Army
9. Syracuse
10. Boston College
11. Pitt
12. Duke

Midwestern Conference
1. Ohio State
2. Michigan
3. Michigan St.
4. Wisconsin
5. Indiana
6. Cincinnati
7. Purdue
8. Illinois
9. Kentucky
10. West Virginia
11. Iowa
12. Notre Dame

(04-29-2022 10:27 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  1. Include my school
2. Include 59 schools I like
done

Thank you for summing up the results of this thread so succinctly.

001.) Ohio State University - $225,542,037
002.) The University of Texas at Austin - $191,737,849
003.) The University of Alabama - $189,242,298
004.) University of Georgia - $179,295,904
005.) University of Michigan-Ann Arbor - $168,244,643
006.) University of Notre Dame - $165,660,298
007.) Pennsylvania State University - $165,077,390
008.) Louisiana State University and Agricultural & Mechanical College - $160,460,476
009.) University of Oklahoma-Norman - $157,494,530
010.) Florida State University - $155,656,855

011.) Auburn University - $153,703,749
012.) University of Iowa - $145,095,544
013.) University of Wisconsin-Madison - $143,954,553
014.) Texas A & M University-College Station - $143,807,835
015.) University of Louisville - $140,867,112
016.) University of Florida - $139,287,811
017.) University of Kentucky - $138,492,743
018.) University of Washington-Seattle - $137,573,939
019.) University of South Carolina-Columbia - $137,094,212
020.) The University of Tennessee-Knoxville - $136,807,801

021.) Stanford University - $133,622,625
022.) University of Nebraska-Lincoln - $128,185,606
023.) University of Southern California - $127,801,994
024.) University of Arkansas - $124,297,763
025.) Michigan State University - $122,557,963
026.) Clemson University - $122,263,031
027.) Indiana University-Bloomington - $120,485,698
028.) University of California-Los Angeles - $119,391,431
029.) University of Miami - $115,360,535
030.) Texas Christian University - $114,393,484

031.) Northwestern University - $112,499,222
032.) University of Minnesota-Twin Cities - $110,225,936
033.) Duke University - $109,785,804
034.) University of Kansas - $108,187,369
035.) University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill - $107,842,595
036.) University of Virginia - $106,985,487
037.) Baylor University - $106,954,237
038.) University of California-Berkeley - $105,044,581
039.) University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign - $103,558,802
040.) University of Oregon - $103,001,518

041.) Purdue University - $102,223,618
042.) Arizona State University-Tempe - $101,855,268
043.) Mississippi State University - $101,215,909
044.) University of Missouri-Columbia - $100,202,460
045.) University of Pittsburgh - $99,763,877
046.) Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University - $98,885,805
047.) University of Mississippi - $98,653,906
048.) University of Colorado Boulder - $95,592,693
049.) University of Arizona - $93,492,302
050.) West Virginia University - $92,884,748

If we stop at 50 we keep most of the riff-raff out.

Sorry about Army and Navy but they just can't legitimately make a list like this and I cannot grandfather them in when they don't deserve it.

If we see a P-60, I think it could reasonably look like this and could preserve some sense of tradition in football/basketball. It's not a true 60 though because of ND and maybe UCONN?

12+14+(16.5+0.5?)+18

This assumes ESPN protects the ACC for their own self interests while B1G chooses not to raid the PAC-12. I would expect ESPN to want to have a majority of these leagues that cover most of the country. BYU and UCF could be added to this as independents or replace teams added along with Army and Navy. I could see the teams I added left out along with Oregon St. and Washington St. to cut it down to 54/55. It's not perfect, but it represents most of the country without changing much as it stands right now as the Big 12 would survive, but drop off to a degree as a best of the rest conference just on the outside.

PAC-12:
Arizona
Arizona St.
California
Colorado
Oregon
Oregon St.
Stanford
UCLA
USC
Utah
Washington
Washington St.

Big Ten:
Illinois
Indiana
Iowa
Maryland
Michigan
Michigan St
Minnesota
Nebraska
Northwestern
Ohio St.
Penn St.
Purdue
Rutgers
Wisconsin

ACC:
Boston College
Cincinnati
Clemson
UCONN? (partial)
Duke
Florida St.
Georgia Tech
Louisville
Miami
North Carolina
NC State
Notre Dame (partial)
Pittsburgh
Syracuse
Virginia
Virginia Tech
Wake Forest
West Virginia

SEC:
Alabama
Arkansas
Auburn
Florida
Georgia
Kansas
Kentucky
LSU
Mississippi St.
Missouri
Oklahoma
Oklahoma St.
Ole Miss
South Carolina
Tennessee
Texas
Texas A&M
Vanderbilt