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Expansion for College Baseball?
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CitrusUCF Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Expansion for College Baseball?
Always felt like the AAC should have added them since SMU doesn’t have baseball.
04-23-2022 06:20 PM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Expansion for College Baseball?
(04-21-2022 04:00 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  
(04-21-2022 03:54 PM)fsquid Wrote:  How did they get their baseball team in Division 1 while the rest stayed in D2? I'm not up on my history.

I believe you used to be able to move up in just 1 sport. There’s several hockey and lax teams playing in D1, while their other teams play in D2 or 3. This is not allowed anymore. Only “grandfathered” teams remain.

When the three division structure was first created, some schools were allowed to compete in Division I in sports other than football and basketball where they had been competing in the "University" division, including in Division 3 Clarkson, Colorado College, RPI and St. Lawrence in ice hockey and Johns Hopkins in lacrosse.

I don't know the following history, but that might have been part of the precedent that led to schools being allowed to move up for one sport other than FB and basketball ... and then when the politics swung against encouraging multi-division schools, the existing multi-division schools (either "pre-three-division" legacy schools or those who moved a sport up after) were able to get grandfathered if they played a sport in Division I before 2011.

The present opportunities to "move up" are when a sport has a championship in common with Division I ... such as a number of Division II ice hockey program ... so baseball move-ups are no longer an option.

(Note, however, that for Division III schools, only the five (surviving) "legacy" programs are allowed to offer scholarships in their Division I sport(s).)
(This post was last modified: 04-23-2022 06:51 PM by BruceMcF.)
04-23-2022 06:44 PM
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jimrtex Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Expansion for College Baseball?
(04-23-2022 06:44 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(04-21-2022 04:00 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  
(04-21-2022 03:54 PM)fsquid Wrote:  How did they get their baseball team in Division 1 while the rest stayed in D2? I'm not up on my history.

I believe you used to be able to move up in just 1 sport. There’s several hockey and lax teams playing in D1, while their other teams play in D2 or 3. This is not allowed anymore. Only “grandfathered” teams remain.

When the three division structure was first created, some schools were allowed to compete in Division I in sports other than football and basketball where they had been competing in the "University" division, including in Division 3 Clarkson, Colorado College, RPI and St. Lawrence in ice hockey and Johns Hopkins in lacrosse.

I don't know the following history, but that might have been part of the precedent that led to schools being allowed to move up for one sport other than FB and basketball ... and then when the politics swung against encouraging multi-division schools, the existing multi-division schools (either "pre-three-division" legacy schools or those who moved a sport up after) were able to get grandfathered if they played a sport in Division I before 2011.

The present opportunities to "move up" are when a sport has a championship in common with Division I ... such as a number of Division II ice hockey program ... so baseball move-ups are no longer an option.

(Note, however, that for Division III schools, only the five (surviving) "legacy" programs are allowed to offer scholarships in their Division I sport(s).)
The rules were changed at the last NCAA convention to permit all DIII schools competing in DI to offer scholarships.

This meant RIT and Union ice hockey, Franklin&Marshall wrestling, Hobart lacrosse, and MIT women's rowing will be able to offer scholarships.

I tried to figure out why Dallas Baptist has DI baseball. The closest I could figure out was that when they moved from NAIA to NCAA DII, The Lone Star Conference was a public school conference. The Heartland Conference had formed, but were not playing a conference schedule in baseball. By the time Dallas Baptist joined the Heartland Conference they had already joined DI baseball (one of the last schools to take advantage of that option). Had they been able to get into the Lone Star, they might still be a DII baseball team.

An interesting tidbit in the DBU announcement was to thank their consultant. So it appears that DBU may have also looked into moving to other conferences like the WAC or Southland.
04-23-2022 10:01 PM
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johnintx Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Expansion for College Baseball?
(04-23-2022 10:01 PM)jimrtex Wrote:  I tried to figure out why Dallas Baptist has DI baseball. The closest I could figure out was that when they moved from NAIA to NCAA DII, The Lone Star Conference was a public school conference. The Heartland Conference had formed, but were not playing a conference schedule in baseball. By the time Dallas Baptist joined the Heartland Conference they had already joined DI baseball (one of the last schools to take advantage of that option). Had they been able to get into the Lone Star, they might still be a DII baseball team.

An interesting tidbit in the DBU announcement was to thank their consultant. So it appears that DBU may have also looked into moving to other conferences like the WAC or Southland.

That's what I gathered, also. They were in the NAIA until 2002, when they joined the D-II Heartland Conference. They started playing D-1 baseball in 2006 as an independent. At that time the Heartland must not have sponsored baseball, though they sponsored it when the conference shut down. I was living in the area at the time, and I remember when they left the NAIA, but I don't remember the exact circumstances of how they were able to be in Division I for baseball only.
04-23-2022 10:38 PM
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jimrtex Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Expansion for College Baseball?
(04-23-2022 10:38 PM)johnintx Wrote:  
(04-23-2022 10:01 PM)jimrtex Wrote:  I tried to figure out why Dallas Baptist has DI baseball. The closest I could figure out was that when they moved from NAIA to NCAA DII, The Lone Star Conference was a public school conference. The Heartland Conference had formed, but were not playing a conference schedule in baseball. By the time Dallas Baptist joined the Heartland Conference they had already joined DI baseball (one of the last schools to take advantage of that option). Had they been able to get into the Lone Star, they might still be a DII baseball team.

An interesting tidbit in the DBU announcement was to thank their consultant. So it appears that DBU may have also looked into moving to other conferences like the WAC or Southland.

That's what I gathered, also. They were in the NAIA until 2002, when they joined the D-II Heartland Conference. They started playing D-1 baseball in 2006 as an independent. At that time the Heartland must not have sponsored baseball, though they sponsored it when the conference shut down. I was living in the area at the time, and I remember when they left the NAIA, but I don't remember the exact circumstances of how they were able to be in Division I for baseball only.
I was looking at baseball record books, and the Heartland overall standings were shown but not conference records. So I assume that means they weren't getting AQ. And when the Heartland first formed they were having to stretch to get schools. So while they had smaller Texas privates like Incarnate Word, St. Edward's, and St. Mary's (San Antonio, Austin, and San Antonio, respectively), they also included schools like Montana State-Billings, and (Oklahoma) Panhandle State.

Dallas Baptist is also a member of the NCCAA. In years where they were not in the NCAA championships in basketball, they compete in the NCCAA tournament.

Before 2010 it was possible for a lower division school to petition to elevate one sport other than basketball or football to DI, and it doesn't appear that unusual. But even before 2010 it appears that petitions were not being accepted. So Dallas Baptist got in just before the option was closed off.

Over time all the schools except DBU dropped their DI baseball down to the same level as their other sports. If they couldn't get a conference affiliation it would be hard to schedule games since most leagues schedule weekend series.
04-24-2022 08:08 AM
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johnintx Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Expansion for College Baseball?
(04-24-2022 08:08 AM)jimrtex Wrote:  
(04-23-2022 10:38 PM)johnintx Wrote:  
(04-23-2022 10:01 PM)jimrtex Wrote:  I tried to figure out why Dallas Baptist has DI baseball. The closest I could figure out was that when they moved from NAIA to NCAA DII, The Lone Star Conference was a public school conference. The Heartland Conference had formed, but were not playing a conference schedule in baseball. By the time Dallas Baptist joined the Heartland Conference they had already joined DI baseball (one of the last schools to take advantage of that option). Had they been able to get into the Lone Star, they might still be a DII baseball team.

An interesting tidbit in the DBU announcement was to thank their consultant. So it appears that DBU may have also looked into moving to other conferences like the WAC or Southland.

That's what I gathered, also. They were in the NAIA until 2002, when they joined the D-II Heartland Conference. They started playing D-1 baseball in 2006 as an independent. At that time the Heartland must not have sponsored baseball, though they sponsored it when the conference shut down. I was living in the area at the time, and I remember when they left the NAIA, but I don't remember the exact circumstances of how they were able to be in Division I for baseball only.
I was looking at baseball record books, and the Heartland overall standings were shown but not conference records. So I assume that means they weren't getting AQ. And when the Heartland first formed they were having to stretch to get schools. So while they had smaller Texas privates like Incarnate Word, St. Edward's, and St. Mary's (San Antonio, Austin, and San Antonio, respectively), they also included schools like Montana State-Billings, and (Oklahoma) Panhandle State.

Dallas Baptist is also a member of the NCCAA. In years where they were not in the NCAA championships in basketball, they compete in the NCCAA tournament.

Before 2010 it was possible for a lower division school to petition to elevate one sport other than basketball or football to DI, and it doesn't appear that unusual. But even before 2010 it appears that petitions were not being accepted. So Dallas Baptist got in just before the option was closed off.

Over time all the schools except DBU dropped their DI baseball down to the same level as their other sports. If they couldn't get a conference affiliation it would be hard to schedule games since most leagues schedule weekend series.

Gotcha. I knew they were in the NCCAA. That is made up primarily of small Bible colleges, but is also a place where slightly larger Christian liberal arts universities compete nationally during their transition from NAIA to NCAA.

DBU was a NAIA power in baseball. Once they moved to NCAA Division II, they saw the opportunity to move one sport up. In this case, it was baseball. Their baseball facility was lacking, and was forced to play a super regional one year on the road because their facility was not up to standard. That is no longer the case, as they now have a power-conference quality ballpark.

DBU's history is interesting. They were a junior college in Decatur, TX, then moved to Dallas in 1967. They then became a four-year school. They limped along until 1988, when a new president came in. At this point, they were basically being kept afloat by Mary Carter Crowley, founder of Home Interiors & Gifts and mother of Dallas Mavericks founding owner Don Carter. The new president was able to attract donors, raise money, add programs (especially adult night classes throughout the area), and increase enrollment. They rebranded, changing the mascot from Indians to Patriots (before the present-day political connotation to that word) and the colors from blue and gold to red/white/blue. They built a ton of buildings, all with a Revolutionary War theme, including a replica of Independence Hall. A walk through the campus now shows lots of plaques with donor names, revealing a who's who of notable local names, including a building named after Tom Landry. Their enrollment and endowment have increased, and the school is now doing well.

Ironically, for a few years while still in the NAIA, DBU did not field a men's basketball team, choosing baseball to be their primary sport. This was during the period in the 90's when the university was being restructured and stabilized. By the time they joined the NCAA, they had restored men's basketball. So it is not new for baseball to be the most emphasized sport at DBU.

More information than you want to know, but they found a niche and they're capitalizing on it.
(This post was last modified: 04-24-2022 03:11 PM by johnintx.)
04-24-2022 08:47 AM
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