(08-04-2022 09:09 AM)jcohen42 Wrote:  I think you present a pretty good argument for Albany; however, I don't view Howard or UMBC as South schools. Both of them are closer to Towson than they would be to any school in the southern division. Howard perhaps would be fine with being a Southern school so that they stay with the HBCU's, but I can't imagine UMBC jumping at the chance to play southern schools. On the other hand, I definitely think the northern division would be attractive to them.

My hope is that the conference stays at 14 for a few years, and if an opportunity comes up, take advantage of it. I don't think football is in any rush to add a 16th member, pod scheduling with 5 pods of 3 works really well under the current configuration. That opens the door for one of Albany, Fairfield, Quinnipiac, or UMBC to be the eighth member in the North, where Albany and Fairfield appear to be the clear frontrunners.

I totally agree with you about the UMBC/Howard as North schools. I am just reiterating what I've been told from the meetings that have been had on the schools. IMHO, anything DC up is North for the purposes of conference geography.

Fair enough. I think it's one thing for people in meetings to talk about UMBC as a potential add, and another thing for UMBC to actually want to join a southern division, so I suspect that they effectively would have to be a northern add. Selfishly, I think they align really well with Drexel institutionally, but it does seem more like a long shot than Albany or Fairfield.

Howard is the real wild card to me. Do they jump or not? Do they want to be North or South? Could really go any way and it wouldn't necessarily surprise me.

Im sure Albany wants a full bid, but the way they have lined out he geography, Albany does not fit the bill. In a clear path of trying to make travel easier, not sure how Albany fits that bill, though being here in football, certainly makes it easier to add them for all sports. I have nothing personally against Albany, but I would hope if the CAA feels some magical need to go to 16 for an eventual split, I would hope they pass on Albany. But as noted the options that fit the current path are very minimal, so who knows. The entire NCAA will be shaken up before the CAA has to worry about #15/16

Also, welcome Campbell

Can anyone explain to me the case for going to 16 teams? I just don't get it. The NCAA tourney units start getting awfully small and the remaining schools who might say yes are not obvious quality additions.

I am not totally sold on 14, frankly, but it seems the league now at least has a decent set-up for football (pods), basketball (north-south, with limited crossover games) and the Olympic sports (schedule conveniently and economically but no need for everyone to play everyone). And I give the CAA credit for setting themselves up to survive if a school or two decide to leave.

But, really, what's the case for going to 16? And if the answer is, "So they can split later," explain how that works, practically. You think the power leagues are gonna give two bids to the two CAAs?

(08-10-2022 09:06 AM)JonP Wrote:  Can anyone explain to me the case for going to 16 teams? I just don't get it. The NCAA tourney units start getting awfully small and the remaining schools who might say yes are not obvious quality additions.

I am not totally sold on 14, frankly, but it seems the league now at least has a decent set-up for football (pods), basketball (north-south, with limited crossover games) and the Olympic sports (schedule conveniently and economically but no need for everyone to play everyone). And I give the CAA credit for setting themselves up to survive if a school or two decide to leave.

But, really, what's the case for going to 16? And if the answer is, "So they can split later," explain how that works, practically. You think the power leagues are gonna give two bids to the two CAAs?

There could be a long term plan to end up with a separate northern and southern conference. If so, having eight schools in each division sets that up nicely. I have pretty good connections and have never heard this as a plan.

What I have heard is 8 per division allows for the two division to play home and homes in pretty much all sports. Tight geography for travel savings, players at home more, better rivalries can form and expansion replacing departing schools is much easier. If we are already at 14 there are only additional advantages in going to 16.

(08-10-2022 09:42 AM)82hawk Wrote:  What I have heard is 8 per division allows for the two division to play home and homes in pretty much all sports. Tight geography for travel savings, players at home more, better rivalries can form and expansion replacing departing schools is much easier. If we are already at 14 there are only additional advantages in going to 16.

How many non-revenue sports even need home and homes though? Do any?

Looking at some random Drexel schedules:
Men's Lacrosse: 5 conference games last year
Field Hockey: 6 conference games this season
Men's and Women's Soccer: 9 conference games
Men's and Women's Tennis: 4 conference matches
Softball: 7 conference opponents (3 games per)
Swimming & Diving/Rowing/Golf: Only have conference meets/championships

Even if you wanted to do home and home in, say, soccer, I somehow think you could come up with a scheme that saves on costs with the 14 members on hand.

Baseball, Softball, Soccer, and volleyball will be the Big ones

Not all N/S schools play all those sports so 16 will help fill the gaps on schools that don't play certain sports

(08-10-2022 10:51 AM)solohawks Wrote:  Baseball, Softball, Soccer, and volleyball will be the Big ones

Not all N/S schools play all those sports so 16 will help fill the gaps on schools that don't play certain sports

UNCW plays all 8 conference opponents in volleyball this year. Campbell will give the CAA 10 volleyball programs. You can to go divisions, play 4 home-and-homes and never leave the Carolinas.

But there is also no certainty that adding two schools will allow you to do clean divisions in these sports anyway. The 14-team CAA will have 11 men's soccer programs. Would having 13 be that much better?

Point being, I don't think a conference should be making membership decisions based on non-revenue sports.

(08-10-2022 12:49 PM)JonP Wrote:  

(08-10-2022 10:51 AM)solohawks Wrote:  Baseball, Softball, Soccer, and volleyball will be the Big ones

Not all N/S schools play all those sports so 16 will help fill the gaps on schools that don't play certain sports

UNCW plays all 8 conference opponents in volleyball this year. Campbell will give the CAA 10 volleyball programs. You can to go divisions, play 4 home-and-homes and never leave the Carolinas.

But there is also no certainty that adding two schools will allow you to do clean divisions in these sports anyway. The 14-team CAA will have 11 men's soccer programs. Would having 13 be that much better?

Point being, I don't think a conference should be making membership decisions based on non-revenue sports.

Never said it was about non revenue sports only. Football has huge travel expenses. Basketball has had big expenses with required flights and baseball has as well. It's also not just travel expenses but also time away from classes due to travel. Then add in better rivalries and fan attendance since fans will be able to hop in a car and go to pretty much any game by car.

It will all be very interesting to see what happens once the power conferences break away and form a semi professional league. I do think the CAA has shown strength to be included in whatever remains of the next level down from the power conferences with the expansion. It feels like we have separated ourselves from the pack of the majors (even if bids and seeding in mens basketball still say low major)

(08-11-2022 10:35 AM)dan10 Wrote:  It will all be very interesting to see what happens once the power conferences break away and form a semi professional league. I do think the CAA has shown strength to be included in whatever remains of the next level down from the power conferences with the expansion. It feels like we have separated ourselves from the pack of the majors (even if bids and seeding in mens basketball still say low major)

The structure that allows for N/S divisions, as well as the actual schools added, puts the CAA in the best position i've seen since the glory days before the departures of the VA schools. If the CAA could manage to parlay this into an ESPN deal, this could be the start of a move where we begin to compete with the A10 for basketball dominance. It may also allow the CAA to force the hand of some schools that park their football in the CAA while keeping the rest of their sports elsewhere. Richmond, as an example, could be told to either come on as a full member or take football elsewhere. I have no info this will happen, but i can see where it might.

I think Richmond is the only affiliate where that benefits the CAA. Villanova is not coming on as a full member under any circumstances. New Hampshire and Maine aren't great adds. Albany is essentially waiting for the CAA's call (one I think eventually does come).

Most likely, Richmond becomes a SoCon affiliate and we haven't really gained anything by taking a hard line on football affiliates.

(08-12-2022 10:23 AM)jcohen42 Wrote:  I think Richmond is the only affiliate where that benefits the CAA. Villanova is not coming on as a full member under any circumstances. New Hampshire and Maine aren't great adds. Albany is essentially waiting for the CAA's call (one I think eventually does come).

Most likely, Richmond becomes a SoCon affiliate and we haven't really gained anything by taking a hard line on football affiliates.

An affiliate member of either So Con or Patriot is definitely a step down from the CAA. I don’t know if the Spiders bloated egos could handle that - though I think you are correct. They would probably accept that if cornered.

I really think UNH has missed such an opportunity for their program if reports are true they have twice turned down CAA all sports offers. As with Elon and Charleston, I think it would have done so much for their university profile.

True, but the alternative would be leaving the A10 for the CAA. Which, granted, would be a very entertaining choice to see them have to make.

(08-12-2022 10:39 AM)jcohen42 Wrote:  True, but the alternative would be leaving the A10 for the CAA. Which, granted, would be a very entertaining choice to see them have to make.

That's just not going to happen

As much fun as it may be, Richmond would just go to the Patriot or SoCon for football.

They are a basketball school first

(08-12-2022 10:25 AM)Sitting bull Wrote:  I really think UNH has missed such an opportunity for their program if reports are true they have twice turned down CAA all sports offers.

I have never heard this and I hope it's not true. New Hampshire would be an awful add for basketball. They are a perfect America East team.

And I say that even though Bill Herrion is the coach! He's been there 17 years and is averaging 12 wins a season at UNH.

Albany is also a great aeast team. I hope the league keeps its focus on decent to good academic institutions while keeping it basically an I95 league. Easy travel and the ones not along the highway are super common flights from anywhere. Adding an outlier to that mold like Albany would be a downgrade for the conference profile. Some of the recent additions cant sit too well academically for some (W&M, NU and maybe even Delaware)

(08-12-2022 09:28 PM)dan10 Wrote:  Albany is also a great aeast team. I hope the league keeps its focus on decent to good academic institutions while keeping it basically an I95 league. Easy travel and the ones not along the highway are super common flights from anywhere. Adding an outlier to that mold like Albany would be a downgrade for the conference profile. Some of the recent additions cant sit too well academically for some (W&M, NU and maybe even Delaware)

Which schools are you referring to related to academics? A&T and Campbell both have strong academics. I don't know much about the northern schools and Hampton.

(08-12-2022 09:28 PM)dan10 Wrote:  Albany is also a great aeast team. I hope the league keeps its focus on decent to good academic institutions while keeping it basically an I95 league. Easy travel and the ones not along the highway are super common flights from anywhere. Adding an outlier to that mold like Albany would be a downgrade for the conference profile. Some of the recent additions cant sit too well academically for some (W&M, NU and maybe even Delaware)

Laughing about the Albany academics comment here. For real? You may want to check your facts on that statement. If Albany joined today, they would be literally in the Top half of the league (if it expanded to 16) by any reasonable measure. ON USWNR rankings, which I am not a huge fan of in general, Albany would slot in RIGHT behind Hofstra at #8. On sheer prestige (overall academic rankings, Carnegie research, etc), Albany would slot in at #6...directly behind Drexel.

Let me just add that due to some serious criminal behavior (that administrator is currently awaiting sentencing on multiple federal charges due to what I am about to tell you about), Albany's CNSE (Nanotech program) was taken from it and given to nascent SUNY Poly. That removal dropped Albany from being ranked in the low 100's with more research expenditures than Stony Brook. Currently, talks are underway between the Governor, NYS Legislature, Albany, and SUNY Poly to return that program to Albany. With that return, Albany's R&D will grow by 200-250 million, brining it's annual spend to nearly $400 million...surpassing Buffalo and Stony Brook...both AAU institutions. It would be, by far, the most in the CAA.

Even if that move does not occur, which of course is always possible with politics, Albany would sit fifth in the CAA behind SBU, Delaware, Northeastern, an Drexel (by $5 million), in that order.

As for travel, I posted this elsewhere and you commented on it as well, going up I-95 to, let's say, Fairfield is literally a wash (20-25 minutes longer to Albany). This would account for all teams that would bus to Albany but for Stony Brook (hour more to Albany but a trip they have made since...forever). As for Northeastern, Albany and Fairfield are literally equidistant but the traffic risk to Fairfield is far worse.

As for Airports, Albany's International Airport is 8 minutes from campus. All CAA South teams would have to take a connecting flight for the limited times they play the CAA North, with Albany on the schedule. To Monmouth, Fairfield, and Stony Brook, the CAA South can get direct flights but for some schools (W&M and Hampton) that requires an 1-130 hr drive to Richmond. After landing, that requires an 130-145 drive to Monmouth, Stony Brook, or Fairfield (if they joined)...WITHOUT the notorious traffic.

So I am not really sure what you mean about travel being longer to Albany.

I ask this question: What school fits your mold that could be added in the North? Quinnipiac? Fairfield? Neither fit the mold you speak of at all....but honestly, I think the CAA North, if it expands...and I don't think it will for a bit, if ever, will be down to Albany or Fairfield...with Albany having the edge due to Football.