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Sports Business Journal: FOX and B1G have deal in place
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johnbragg Offline
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Post: #181
RE: Sports Business Journal: FOX and B1G have deal in place
(05-18-2022 08:36 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(05-18-2022 08:19 AM)random asian guy Wrote:  
(05-17-2022 07:46 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  FWIW, what I've been reading seems to indicate that $1 billion plus is on the table for the Big Ten, but it would require moving some games to streaming only (Amazon?). ESPN may not have bid what the B1G "would've liked", but that doesn't mean no one did. I would suggest the reason it's taken this long is because the Big Ten is trying to balance exposure and revenue.

You might be right. Streaming only is less appealing. The only reason why it’s even being considered is probably whoever doing the streaming (Amazon?) is willing to pay a lot more than the ESPN. Barta did say there could be some potential upside.

I know that there's skepticism about Warren in a lot of circles, but the biggest reason why he was brought in was that he was familiar with the NFL media rights process.

It's a balance with streaming packages. The Big Ten (or any other conference) can't just move Illinois-Rutgers to streaming and expect to get a premium. By the same token, no one in the Big Ten is obtuse enough to think that it's a good idea to move games like Ohio State-Michigan, Ohio State-Penn State or Michigan-Penn State to streaming no matter what Amazon or Apple might offer, either. The NFL doesn't do that. The highest and best use for any streaming package is to be in a non-traditional time slot where it has little-to-no competition (which likely means Friday night since the NFL has Thursdays on Amazon) that either (a) features one of the major brands like OSU/Michigan/PSU versus an Illinois/Rutgers-type or (b) has a solid second-level matchup - think games between Wisconsin/Iowa/Michigan State. It might also be a smaller package, too - maybe 5 or 6 games instead of a full 12-13 week slate.

Essentially, if the Big Ten were to move the games that it has had on Friday night on FS1 to a streaming place like Amazon, that may garner a lot more money and arguably as much or more exposure (as you're comparing the reach of Amazon Prime versus FS1 as opposed to Amazon Prime versus ABC/ESPN/NBC/CBS/FOX). That is how I would get on board with a streaming package if I were the Big Ten - it's not actually taking away the top content that makes the most sense for the OTA networks or ESPN, but rather maximizing more value for the next tier of games (which is really what the BTN did).

Not sure it's the route Amazon is going to go, but the trend for other services (PAramount, Peacock, ESPN+) is to negotiate for streaming rights for games they're also broadcasting on TV (or cable).

So the Amazon Prime piece of the package could be for Amazon to carry streams of the BTN games, replacing BTN Plus. Maybe also whatever Big Ten games end up on FS1, maybe even Big Fox.

But Amazon isn't paying premium money for non-exclusive streaming rights.
05-18-2022 08:46 AM
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Frank the Tank Online
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Post: #182
RE: Sports Business Journal: FOX and B1G have deal in place
(05-18-2022 08:46 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(05-18-2022 08:36 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(05-18-2022 08:19 AM)random asian guy Wrote:  
(05-17-2022 07:46 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  FWIW, what I've been reading seems to indicate that $1 billion plus is on the table for the Big Ten, but it would require moving some games to streaming only (Amazon?). ESPN may not have bid what the B1G "would've liked", but that doesn't mean no one did. I would suggest the reason it's taken this long is because the Big Ten is trying to balance exposure and revenue.

You might be right. Streaming only is less appealing. The only reason why it’s even being considered is probably whoever doing the streaming (Amazon?) is willing to pay a lot more than the ESPN. Barta did say there could be some potential upside.

I know that there's skepticism about Warren in a lot of circles, but the biggest reason why he was brought in was that he was familiar with the NFL media rights process.

It's a balance with streaming packages. The Big Ten (or any other conference) can't just move Illinois-Rutgers to streaming and expect to get a premium. By the same token, no one in the Big Ten is obtuse enough to think that it's a good idea to move games like Ohio State-Michigan, Ohio State-Penn State or Michigan-Penn State to streaming no matter what Amazon or Apple might offer, either. The NFL doesn't do that. The highest and best use for any streaming package is to be in a non-traditional time slot where it has little-to-no competition (which likely means Friday night since the NFL has Thursdays on Amazon) that either (a) features one of the major brands like OSU/Michigan/PSU versus an Illinois/Rutgers-type or (b) has a solid second-level matchup - think games between Wisconsin/Iowa/Michigan State. It might also be a smaller package, too - maybe 5 or 6 games instead of a full 12-13 week slate.

Essentially, if the Big Ten were to move the games that it has had on Friday night on FS1 to a streaming place like Amazon, that may garner a lot more money and arguably as much or more exposure (as you're comparing the reach of Amazon Prime versus FS1 as opposed to Amazon Prime versus ABC/ESPN/NBC/CBS/FOX). That is how I would get on board with a streaming package if I were the Big Ten - it's not actually taking away the top content that makes the most sense for the OTA networks or ESPN, but rather maximizing more value for the next tier of games (which is really what the BTN did).

Not sure it's the route Amazon is going to go, but the trend for other services (PAramount, Peacock, ESPN+) is to negotiate for streaming rights for games they're also broadcasting on TV (or cable).

So the Amazon Prime piece of the package could be for Amazon to carry streams of the BTN games, replacing BTN Plus. Maybe also whatever Big Ten games end up on FS1, maybe even Big Fox.

But Amazon isn't paying premium money for non-exclusive streaming rights.

It's an interesting point because ever since FOX sold most of its assets to Disney, the one area that FOX is way behind all of the other networks on is a streaming service.

Linear BTN is excellent. It's a first class sports programming operation that's on par with what ESPN has with SECN and ACCN.

BTN+, on the other hand, is an abomination (and I'm really referring to the BTN+ exclusive games for basketball and other non-football sports as opposed to simulcasts of linear BTN games). ESPN+ is in an entirely different universe by comparison both in terms of production and the technical platform.

Anything that would move BTN+ to a broader streaming service like Amazon or Apple (or ESPN+, for that matter) would be fantastic, but I'd be curious as to what the market is for that since it (as of now) doesn't include football or any conference basketball games. That seems to be almost a leverage point if I were running the Big Ten - essentially, if Amazon wants some football and basketball games, it also needs to take in BTN+ (because that portion of the content portfolio is really the only area where the Big Ten has fallen behind the SEC exposure-wise).
(This post was last modified: 05-18-2022 09:00 AM by Frank the Tank.)
05-18-2022 08:59 AM
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MattBrownEP Offline
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Post: #183
RE: Sports Business Journal: FOX and B1G have deal in place
(05-17-2022 09:51 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-17-2022 08:55 PM)MattBrownEP Wrote:  
(05-17-2022 08:28 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-17-2022 08:08 PM)MattBrownEP Wrote:  If the Big Ten's media rights deal isn't actually close to that billion figure....some folks even more in the know than Gary Barta haven't been telling the truth.

If this was Delaney's tenure I'd bet on the SBJ info being correct. Warren isn't Delaney. A rookie mistake is to release the highest estimates in order to make a splash and then to look foolish when a mid range estimate proves true. We'll see.

I'm not just talking about Kevin Warren, and I'm not just talking about info from SBJ.

Am I supposed to be impressed? I knew Schiller and Kramer. Didn't know Slive but would have liked to. Even on the inside you have to filter for group think, or worse a group think souffle', which is what you get when group think starts recycling through for the 2nd and 3rd time. I believe things only when they are done.

Here's what I mean. I'm the guy that broke the story about the BTN/Fox equity sale. I say that not to brag, but only to say that I had to talk to a lot of people not just at the top of the Big Ten, but at Fox, and at huge media consultancies, and at competing media companies, to get all of that information.

Everybody I've talked to believes that the ~Billion number is pretty accurate.

Now, could the final deal be less? I mean, sure, I haven't seen the deal, and it isn't finished yet. But if it is, then it wasn't just Kevin Warren that set expectations incorrectly. It would be a LOT of people who had direct knowledge of the situation. And it would mean that almost every major industry analyst misread the situation.
05-18-2022 10:08 AM
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Post: #184
RE: Sports Business Journal: FOX and B1G have deal in place
(05-18-2022 10:08 AM)MattBrownEP Wrote:  Here's what I mean. I'm the guy that broke the story about the BTN/Fox equity sale. I say that not to brag, but only to say that I had to talk to a lot of people not just at the top of the Big Ten, but at Fox, and at huge media consultancies, and at competing media companies, to get all of that information.

Everybody I've talked to believes that the ~Billion number is pretty accurate.

Now, could the final deal be less? I mean, sure, I haven't seen the deal, and it isn't finished yet. But if it is, then it wasn't just Kevin Warren that set expectations incorrectly. It would be a LOT of people who had direct knowledge of the situation. And it would mean that almost every major industry analyst misread the situation.

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05-18-2022 10:15 AM
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Hokie Mark Online
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Post: #185
RE: Sports Business Journal: FOX and B1G have deal in place
(05-18-2022 10:08 AM)MattBrownEP Wrote:  
(05-17-2022 09:51 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-17-2022 08:55 PM)MattBrownEP Wrote:  
(05-17-2022 08:28 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-17-2022 08:08 PM)MattBrownEP Wrote:  If the Big Ten's media rights deal isn't actually close to that billion figure....some folks even more in the know than Gary Barta haven't been telling the truth.

If this was Delaney's tenure I'd bet on the SBJ info being correct. Warren isn't Delaney. A rookie mistake is to release the highest estimates in order to make a splash and then to look foolish when a mid range estimate proves true. We'll see.

I'm not just talking about Kevin Warren, and I'm not just talking about info from SBJ.

Am I supposed to be impressed? I knew Schiller and Kramer. Didn't know Slive but would have liked to. Even on the inside you have to filter for group think, or worse a group think souffle', which is what you get when group think starts recycling through for the 2nd and 3rd time. I believe things only when they are done.

Here's what I mean. I'm the guy that broke the story about the BTN/Fox equity sale. I say that not to brag, but only to say that I had to talk to a lot of people not just at the top of the Big Ten, but at Fox, and at huge media consultancies, and at competing media companies, to get all of that information.

Everybody I've talked to believes that the ~Billion number is pretty accurate.

Now, could the final deal be less? I mean, sure, I haven't seen the deal, and it isn't finished yet. But if it is, then it wasn't just Kevin Warren that set expectations incorrectly. It would be a LOT of people who had direct knowledge of the situation. And it would mean that almost every major industry analyst misread the situation.

First, let me say I really appreciate your work, Matt - great job!

Second, did the people who estimated $1 billion ever indicate which networks that would include? For example, was Amazon assumed from the beginning?
05-18-2022 11:13 AM
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johnbragg Offline
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Post: #186
RE: Sports Business Journal: FOX and B1G have deal in place
(05-18-2022 10:08 AM)MattBrownEP Wrote:  
(05-17-2022 09:51 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-17-2022 08:55 PM)MattBrownEP Wrote:  
(05-17-2022 08:28 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-17-2022 08:08 PM)MattBrownEP Wrote:  If the Big Ten's media rights deal isn't actually close to that billion figure....some folks even more in the know than Gary Barta haven't been telling the truth.

If this was Delaney's tenure I'd bet on the SBJ info being correct. Warren isn't Delaney. A rookie mistake is to release the highest estimates in order to make a splash and then to look foolish when a mid range estimate proves true. We'll see.

I'm not just talking about Kevin Warren, and I'm not just talking about info from SBJ.

Am I supposed to be impressed? I knew Schiller and Kramer. Didn't know Slive but would have liked to. Even on the inside you have to filter for group think, or worse a group think souffle', which is what you get when group think starts recycling through for the 2nd and 3rd time. I believe things only when they are done.

Here's what I mean. I'm the guy that broke the story about the BTN/Fox equity sale. I say that not to brag, but only to say that I had to talk to a lot of people not just at the top of the Big Ten, but at Fox, and at huge media consultancies, and at competing media companies, to get all of that information.

Everybody I've talked to believes that the ~Billion number is pretty accurate.

Now, could the final deal be less? I mean, sure, I haven't seen the deal, and it isn't finished yet. But if it is, then it wasn't just Kevin Warren that set expectations incorrectly. It would be a LOT of people who had direct knowledge of the situation. And it would mean that almost every major industry analyst misread the situation.

Hail Matt Brown, first of all. Actually doing journalism and not just shooting his mouth off like us.

If the Big Ten number does come in well south of a billion, it would be an upset comparable to the Aresco League contract crashing through the floor in 2012-13. I think that's liable to happen, (not a crash, but a small increase rather than a doubling) but I'm just a rando shooting off my mouth. All I know is that Fox is no longer in startup mode where you ignore current costs chasing jackpots--being the Next ESPN is not a realistic prospect. When the price tag got too big, Fox let Thursday Night NFL go. And with Netflix' stock crashing, I'm not sure being the "Next Netflix but with sports" is something you want to throw billions of dollars at. Amazon is the trillion dollar wildcard, of course)

CBS, NBC, HBO / Turner WB are bit players. Market cap south of $100B. They're not bringing game-changing money to the table.
(This post was last modified: 05-18-2022 11:52 AM by johnbragg.)
05-18-2022 11:51 AM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #187
RE: Sports Business Journal: FOX and B1G have deal in place
(05-18-2022 10:08 AM)MattBrownEP Wrote:  
(05-17-2022 09:51 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-17-2022 08:55 PM)MattBrownEP Wrote:  
(05-17-2022 08:28 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-17-2022 08:08 PM)MattBrownEP Wrote:  If the Big Ten's media rights deal isn't actually close to that billion figure....some folks even more in the know than Gary Barta haven't been telling the truth.

If this was Delaney's tenure I'd bet on the SBJ info being correct. Warren isn't Delaney. A rookie mistake is to release the highest estimates in order to make a splash and then to look foolish when a mid range estimate proves true. We'll see.

I'm not just talking about Kevin Warren, and I'm not just talking about info from SBJ.

Am I supposed to be impressed? I knew Schiller and Kramer. Didn't know Slive but would have liked to. Even on the inside you have to filter for group think, or worse a group think souffle', which is what you get when group think starts recycling through for the 2nd and 3rd time. I believe things only when they are done.

Here's what I mean. I'm the guy that broke the story about the BTN/Fox equity sale. I say that not to brag, but only to say that I had to talk to a lot of people not just at the top of the Big Ten, but at Fox, and at huge media consultancies, and at competing media companies, to get all of that information.

Everybody I've talked to believes that the ~Billion number is pretty accurate.

Now, could the final deal be less? I mean, sure, I haven't seen the deal, and it isn't finished yet. But if it is, then it wasn't just Kevin Warren that set expectations incorrectly. It would be a LOT of people who had direct knowledge of the situation. And it would mean that almost every major industry analyst misread the situation.

Here's what I mean Matt, for over 30 years of covering realignment it has been clear that those on the inside only ever release information they want known. Journalists run with what they are told. John Pennington and Clay Travis were convinced in 2010--2 that N.C. State and Virginia Tech were going to be headed to the SEC.

Behind the scenes ESPN was working on a move which would have scooped the cream of the B12 away (before GOR's), enhanced the SEC and ACC moving both to 16 with plans for the ACCN to follow a year after the SECN, and both built to have the largest possible footprint for the subscriptions. Part of the ploy would be those 2 schools being part of the SEC.

The leak was issued to get fans and alums in the SEC sold on why these moves would be profitable and why we should be enthusiastic. SEC fans expected Clemson and FSU and their movement was not part of the plan. So once some outside voices entered into reporting what they "heard" the pump was primed. The only problem was the deal fell through. So almost 2 years of priming looked like foolishness.

I've known of other such situations where trusting journalists have been used to gloss or spin situations including other failed endeavors either by schools or conferences. Networks don't need leaks. They have many talking heads to handle their spin. Many times networks, schools, or conferences simply treat such matters as if they never happened and as if it was not even attempted.

I understood what you meant by you heard it from others. I didn't doubt your veracity. However, like everyone who has done what you do and gone before you, you are only as good as the information you are given, or as reliable as your sources.

And to John Bragg I say anyone on a message board could be anybody from a bad seat T-shirt fan to someone who was there and every reader would be better off to be skeptical and check accuracy and details pertaining to everything said. I've spoken with Deans, administrative staff, medical doctors, Nasa engineers, politicians, and persons with knowledge of conference information online, but through PM's where who and what they know were made obvious, and where a modicum of confidentiality can occur. Not all message board posters are the same. This board has had bloggers, journalists, and network think tank people on it in the past. Simply treating anyone not linked to a column or blog as being another talking head is as stupid as assuming everyone knows something.

I'm here at this site because it is a cross section of opinion and we have had some people in the know from several major conferences and it sometimes can be something other than a press release echo chamber.

My sneaking suspicion is that if the B1G doesn't receive what was anticipated, since most conference and network people don't usually spill bad beans on contract amounts, perhaps the put sale was not in the initial deal and that somehow that changed the math. If you don't land the billion I'm confident one of your sources will give you an explanation because at least most contracted amounts become, at some point, public. That's certainly not so of whiffed movement deals which are treated liked the failed attempts at infidelity they are.

A lifetime has taught me to be skeptical of everything, and that in life you are fortunate to learn who you can really trust and reciprocating that is a sacred duty. At least sports isn't life or death and sharing information with the wrong person, or sharing the wrong information with a person, doesn't get you killed.
(This post was last modified: 05-18-2022 01:17 PM by JRsec.)
05-18-2022 01:15 PM
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Post: #188
RE: Sports Business Journal: FOX and B1G have deal in place
With that billion dollars, you have to figure out what is in and what is out.

Counting the $112 million from the BTN, the Big 10 averages about $552 million a year. If you simplify and assume it was a 2017-2022 deal that escalated at 3% a year, the Big 10 would be close to $600 million at the end of the contract. That doesn't include BTN profits which would make it about $700 million. It doesn't take a huge increase to get to a billion average.
If you add 15% to that $700 million (about7.5 million more per school in the first year) and escalate at 4% (inflation is up), a 12 year deal will average $1 billion.

Now if you take out the BTN profits, then you are starting at $600 million. If you take out the BTN totally, then you are starting below $500 million. Getting to a billion takes a lot more.

And then you could be talking about total distributions and you are probably well over $800 million a year in 2023.

So a billion dollars for what? If you are just talking about the current ESPN/Fox/CBS OTA, it would take a huge increase to get there.
(This post was last modified: 05-18-2022 01:33 PM by bullet.)
05-18-2022 01:33 PM
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domer1978 Offline
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Post: #189
RE: Sports Business Journal: FOX and B1G have deal in place
So the true overlord is the SEC (duh). Okay, good to know. ND needs to join the SEC when have to whore ourselves for the biggest check.
(This post was last modified: 05-18-2022 06:31 PM by domer1978.)
05-18-2022 06:07 PM
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Post: #190
RE: Sports Business Journal: FOX and B1G have deal in place
(05-18-2022 01:15 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Here's what I mean Matt, for over 30 years of covering realignment it has been clear that those on the inside only ever release information they want known. Journalists run with what they are told. John Pennington and Clay Travis were convinced in 2010--2 that N.C. State and Virginia Tech were going to be headed to the SEC.
Respectfully, I think this is an incomplete way of describing how working journalists really operate. The catalyst for the Fox/BTN story, after all, wasn't because anybody wanted to brag about the deal (otherwise they just would have done a press release). It came from me reading regulatory filings (which Fox has to put out by law) and from FOIA....which is all about getting documents and info that schools typically don't WANT to release.

THEN you get into information horse trading.

It is unquestionably true that readers should consider the motives of any source that talks, and that sometimes, even in realignment, officials or businesses leak stuff to accomplish certain goals. Like I've said before, which I know makes CUSA partisans angry, but the reason the "UConn and CUSA are talking" news got out, was because CUSA officials leaked it to reporters to try and put pressure on UConn and project stability (the move backfired). That does happen.

But getting business news or realignment news isn't just about being a stenographer. It's also about talking to other people and getting enough info so folks talk to you even when they *don't* want to talk, or getting the information so you don't *need* officials to talk. I can tell y'all that I have broken realignment stories that the institutions involved *did not want out in public*, and I know plenty of other reporters have too.

I say this not to insinuate I'm the best or most connected reported, because lmao I absolutely am not. And hey, it's possible that Gary Barta ends up being right, and this deal ends up being way below what the industry thought it would be. But I do think it's important for folks to understand how this process actually works, so they can be better news consumers.
05-19-2022 01:59 PM
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XLance Offline
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Post: #191
RE: Sports Business Journal: FOX and B1G have deal in place
(05-19-2022 01:59 PM)MattBrownEP Wrote:  
(05-18-2022 01:15 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Here's what I mean Matt, for over 30 years of covering realignment it has been clear that those on the inside only ever release information they want known. Journalists run with what they are told. John Pennington and Clay Travis were convinced in 2010--2 that N.C. State and Virginia Tech were going to be headed to the SEC.
Respectfully, I think this is an incomplete way of describing how working journalists really operate. The catalyst for the Fox/BTN story, after all, wasn't because anybody wanted to brag about the deal (otherwise they just would have done a press release). It came from me reading regulatory filings (which Fox has to put out by law) and from FOIA....which is all about getting documents and info that schools typically don't WANT to release.

THEN you get into information horse trading.

It is unquestionably true that readers should consider the motives of any source that talks, and that sometimes, even in realignment, officials or businesses leak stuff to accomplish certain goals. Like I've said before, which I know makes CUSA partisans angry, but the reason the "UConn and CUSA are talking" news got out, was because CUSA officials leaked it to reporters to try and put pressure on UConn and project stability (the move backfired). That does happen.

But getting business news or realignment news isn't just about being a stenographer. It's also about talking to other people and getting enough info so folks talk to you even when they *don't* want to talk, or getting the information so you don't *need* officials to talk. I can tell y'all that I have broken realignment stories that the institutions involved *did not want out in public*, and I know plenty of other reporters have too.

I say this not to insinuate I'm the best or most connected reported, because lmao I absolutely am not. And hey, it's possible that Gary Barta ends up being right, and this deal ends up being way below what the industry thought it would be. But I do think it's important for folks to understand how this process actually works, so they can be better news consumers.

Thank you for the inside perspective.
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05-19-2022 02:11 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #192
RE: Sports Business Journal: FOX and B1G have deal in place
(05-19-2022 01:59 PM)MattBrownEP Wrote:  
(05-18-2022 01:15 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Here's what I mean Matt, for over 30 years of covering realignment it has been clear that those on the inside only ever release information they want known. Journalists run with what they are told. John Pennington and Clay Travis were convinced in 2010--2 that N.C. State and Virginia Tech were going to be headed to the SEC.
Respectfully, I think this is an incomplete way of describing how working journalists really operate. The catalyst for the Fox/BTN story, after all, wasn't because anybody wanted to brag about the deal (otherwise they just would have done a press release). It came from me reading regulatory filings (which Fox has to put out by law) and from FOIA....which is all about getting documents and info that schools typically don't WANT to release.

THEN you get into information horse trading.

It is unquestionably true that readers should consider the motives of any source that talks, and that sometimes, even in realignment, officials or businesses leak stuff to accomplish certain goals. Like I've said before, which I know makes CUSA partisans angry, but the reason the "UConn and CUSA are talking" news got out, was because CUSA officials leaked it to reporters to try and put pressure on UConn and project stability (the move backfired). That does happen.

But getting business news or realignment news isn't just about being a stenographer. It's also about talking to other people and getting enough info so folks talk to you even when they *don't* want to talk, or getting the information so you don't *need* officials to talk. I can tell y'all that I have broken realignment stories that the institutions involved *did not want out in public*, and I know plenty of other reporters have too.

I say this not to insinuate I'm the best or most connected reported, because lmao I absolutely am not. And hey, it's possible that Gary Barta ends up being right, and this deal ends up being way below what the industry thought it would be. But I do think it's important for folks to understand how this process actually works, so they can be better news consumers.

I'm glad you do your homework. Kudos for your sweat equity! That puts you in the minority of the many print and television reporters I've known or worked with. Journalism credibility is on the endangered trait list. And many of the beat writers, that I've read over the past decade plus, seem to have an appalling lack of inquisitiveness, with due apologies to the Houston Chronicle for serious digging. Most stories fall into pandering to their constituents, flowing with group think on trending issues, and essentially putting their name on AD press releases. I don't call that news, let alone journalism.

I've done organizing and the interviewing, digging, finding documentation, and baiting hostile people to talk is hard work and sometimes dangerous. People who truly dig at anything are the exception. How many articles do you read that actually stimulate your mind? How many instead contain glaring errors in grammar, word usage, or in relating data accurately? (And, while none of us are perfect in all expression, I'm speaking of mistakes which would have flunked you on a paper in English 101.) What boggles my mind is that means not only did the columnist make mistakes, but the editor and Sr. editor whiffed as well, and the publisher turned a blind eye to overall quality.

No doubt, newspapers are suffering. Circulation impacts revenue and voila everything suffers. I'd attribute this laziness to a passing industry going through death throes except that I hear the same mistakes committed nightly on network news, and see even more of it in blogs and online news.

Please don't take personal umbrage because my disdain is not with you, what you've posted, or what little I've looked up and read of your work. My comments are observations made as one who did his masters work in a communication field and knows that even if you dedicatedly dig, diligently question, and competently convey, you are still only as good as your information used to contextualize, and your cited source. And you should be proud of yours. It's logically laid out and competently conveyed. However, after 30 years of following realignment news, while having sources participating in it, and knowing personally some of the original players, much of what I've read about what happened, when it happened, and who was actually involved (meaning prospective movers) actually indicates to me in bold face how much of what passes as news is actually a gloss, outright spin, inaccurate, and simply wrong. And that doesn't even touch what's not even mentioned.

If you pieced together all that is in print about realignment what you would have would not be a history, but could classify as myth. There is something real behind it, but the topic has been eclipsed by the public perception of it, e.g. "the gentlemen's agreement" which was Slive asking that concerned presidents at South Carolina and Florida refrain from nominating their in state rivals (which were their organizing principle for donations for ticket priorities) for membership until after a renegotiation clause was met with ESPN which required 2 additions from new markets (A&M & Mizzou). You can't stop the blackball myth (which is 180 degrees off from the truth) because a blogger related bits of a story, twisted it to sound more sensational, and put it out on the internet only to have a collection of beat writers repeat it, and message board posters cite them as proof of the authenticity of the story.

So, you're damn right I'm cynical, but that cynicism is born out of too many examples of lousy journalism committed by your compatriots across the spectrum of delivery systems. What actually happens behind the scenes in realignments is simply straight forward exploration of business arrangements, which may, or may not, prove to be mutually beneficial. It has only the skullduggery which prevailing contracts require. There is virtually no animus involved and the presidents and commissioners involved go out of their way to avoid ill will. This is why glosses and spin and cover stories are acceptable and mostly go unchallenged. A&M's AD's behavior a year ago was well outside the norms and disturbing.

You have convinced me of your diligence and sincere belief in the truthfulness of your imparted information. But, I wasn't doubting that. I did doubt the motivations of the parties involved. Now you know why I doubted it.

Personally, I hope the Big Ten gets what you expect. The gaps between the SEC/B1G and the rest will serve as a solid catalyst to proceed wherever we are headed with more speed. That in turn will allow the major overhaul to end more quickly and for a few decades to hopefully settle into a period of stasis which experiences only minor tweaks. What is hurting the sport is the constant turmoil which merely mirrors that of the world. Sports are an escape. When they become as stressful as the rest of life you lose your audience. It is thirty plus years after OU/Uga vs the NCAA and enough is enough! Figure it out, get it done, and leave it the hell alone!
(This post was last modified: 05-19-2022 03:34 PM by JRsec.)
05-19-2022 03:19 PM
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Kit-Cat Offline
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Post: #193
RE: Sports Business Journal: FOX and B1G have deal in place
(05-17-2022 02:20 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  I think we're getting way into the weeds of what a "few million" more means.

Just run the numbers of $1 billion per year in TV rights for the Big Ten.

With 14 schools plus a share for the conference office, that translates to $66,666,667 per year per school in TV rights.

That would seem to translate pretty closely to $80-90 million in total conference payouts per school.

Is that a "few million" more that isn't double? Who knows!

I'm more interested in who Barta explicitly named as part of the negotiations, which still indicates that effectively everyone in media is bidding: FOX, ESPN, CBS, NBC, Amazon, TNT. The Big Ten is really being open about this compared to the last contract negotiation.

The conference payout numbers include all revenue sources, not just TV.

Marketing dollars, post season profits etc.

The guaranteed $7 mill payouts of the AAC 1.0 leftovers are a combination of money.
05-19-2022 04:03 PM
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XLance Offline
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Post: #194
RE: Sports Business Journal: FOX and B1G have deal in place
The world is coming apart.
Most of the speculation has been based on the B1G and the SEC both earning so much money that the other schools in the three remaining P conferences would be begging for admittance into their monied clubs. What happens now if those stories aren't true?
When did lying become a profession?
I guess we'll see about the B1G in a week or so.

Diogenes of Sinope is still searching.
05-19-2022 04:49 PM
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bullet Offline
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Post: #195
RE: Sports Business Journal: FOX and B1G have deal in place
(05-19-2022 04:49 PM)XLance Wrote:  The world is coming apart.
Most of the speculation has been based on the B1G and the SEC both earning so much money that the other schools in the three remaining P conferences would be begging for admittance into their monied clubs. What happens now if those stories aren't true?
When did lying become a profession?
I guess we'll see about the B1G in a week or so.

Diogenes of Sinope is still searching.

Even if its not a billion, the $EC and B$G are still way ahead of everyone else.
05-19-2022 05:47 PM
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Big 12 fan too Offline
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Post: #196
RE: Sports Business Journal: FOX and B1G have deal in place
(05-19-2022 04:49 PM)XLance Wrote:  The world is coming apart.
Most of the speculation has been based on the B1G and the SEC both earning so much money that the other schools in the three remaining P conferences would be begging for admittance into their monied clubs. What happens now if those stories aren't true?
When did lying become a profession?
I guess we'll see about the B1G in a week or so.

Diogenes of Sinope is still searching.

Have you asked ACC ADs?


It already is a P2 setup in which schools will want to join, if they can.
05-19-2022 06:55 PM
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Post: #197
RE: Sports Business Journal: FOX and B1G have deal in place


(This post was last modified: 06-03-2022 05:09 PM by Transic_nyc.)
06-01-2022 12:43 PM
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Transic_nyc Offline
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Post: #198
RE: Sports Business Journal: FOX and B1G have deal in place
Quote:It's hurry up and wait on Big Ten rights deal

Interest in the Big Ten’s media package remains so high — and negotiations remain so intense — that sources say it’s unlikely a deal will be finalized before the end of June.

A month ago, Big Ten Commissioner Kevin Warren expressed optimism that the conference could have a deal by Memorial Day, but sources say negotiations are more likely to run until late summer.

Fox Sports already has a deal to renew its place as the conference’s biggest media partner. The size of that package still is undetermined as the conference tries to figure out whether to split the rest of the package among one, two or three other media companies.

CBS, ESPN, NBC and Warner Bros. Discovery still are negotiating actively, as is Amazon, sources said. The conference’s cable channel, BTN, is certain to wind up with a package, too.

Majority owned by Fox, BTN controls the conference’s media rights and has been negotiating with other media companies looking for the rights.

https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/Jo...media.aspx
06-06-2022 02:55 PM
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Post: #199
RE: Sports Business Journal: FOX and B1G have deal in place
(06-06-2022 02:55 PM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  
Quote:It's hurry up and wait on Big Ten rights deal

Interest in the Big Ten’s media package remains so high — and negotiations remain so intense — that sources say it’s unlikely a deal will be finalized before the end of June.

A month ago, Big Ten Commissioner Kevin Warren expressed optimism that the conference could have a deal by Memorial Day, but sources say negotiations are more likely to run until late summer.

Fox Sports already has a deal to renew its place as the conference’s biggest media partner. The size of that package still is undetermined as the conference tries to figure out whether to split the rest of the package among one, two or three other media companies.

CBS, ESPN, NBC and Warner Bros. Discovery still are negotiating actively, as is Amazon, sources said. The conference’s cable channel, BTN, is certain to wind up with a package, too.

Majority owned by Fox, BTN controls the conference’s media rights and has been negotiating with other media companies looking for the rights.

https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/Jo...media.aspx

That's obviously great news for the Big Ten.

The other currently quiet beneficiary in all of this is the Pac-12. When literally all of the major linear TV companies plus Amazon are involved in the Big Ten rights discussions, there are going to be multiple entities that *don't* end up with any Big Ten rights and they may very well be thirsty to get any big-time college football at that point. The Pac-12 won't end up with Big Ten-level rights fees, but they're still very likely going to put to rest any notion that the ACC and/or Big 12 have any financial advantage over them and cement themselves the clear #3 league financially (which is really a more accurate reflection of where they stand in terms of overall conference realignment power).
(This post was last modified: 06-06-2022 03:17 PM by Frank the Tank.)
06-06-2022 03:16 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #200
RE: Sports Business Journal: FOX and B1G have deal in place
(06-06-2022 03:16 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(06-06-2022 02:55 PM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  
Quote:It's hurry up and wait on Big Ten rights deal

Interest in the Big Ten’s media package remains so high — and negotiations remain so intense — that sources say it’s unlikely a deal will be finalized before the end of June.

A month ago, Big Ten Commissioner Kevin Warren expressed optimism that the conference could have a deal by Memorial Day, but sources say negotiations are more likely to run until late summer.

Fox Sports already has a deal to renew its place as the conference’s biggest media partner. The size of that package still is undetermined as the conference tries to figure out whether to split the rest of the package among one, two or three other media companies.

CBS, ESPN, NBC and Warner Bros. Discovery still are negotiating actively, as is Amazon, sources said. The conference’s cable channel, BTN, is certain to wind up with a package, too.

Majority owned by Fox, BTN controls the conference’s media rights and has been negotiating with other media companies looking for the rights.

https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/Jo...media.aspx

That's obviously great news for the Big Ten.

The other currently quiet beneficiary in all of this is the Pac-12. When literally all of the major linear TV companies plus Amazon are involved in the Big Ten rights discussions, there are going to be multiple entities that *don't* end up with any Big Ten rights and they may very well be thirsty to get any big-time college football at that point. The Pac-12 won't end up with Big Ten-level rights fees, but they're still very likely going to put to rest any notion that the ACC and/or Big 12 have any financial advantage over them and cement themselves the clear #3 league financially (which is really a more accurate reflection of where they stand in terms of overall conference realignment power).

So is Larry Scott going to get the last laugh?
06-06-2022 03:23 PM
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