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Michigan universities see decline in enrollment; numbers increase at community colleg
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GRBRONCO Offline
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Post: #81
RE: Michigan universities see decline in enrollment; numbers increase at community colleg
(05-12-2022 10:19 PM)broncofan1 Wrote:  
(05-12-2022 04:12 PM)GRBRONCO Wrote:  It's the latest woke thing to do, drop standardized testing due to social equity concerns. Which is why I expect WMU to jump on the bandwagon any day now if they haven't already.

No, it's not. "Woke" has nothing to do with this move. There is little reliable data showing that an ACT or SAT score has any bearing on a student's ability to earn a college degree. College Board turned it into a "need" for admissions criteria with little direct data to show why.

A test taken by a kid in their junior year of high school just doesn't predict how they will do when they start college more than a year later.

This talk about a "race to the bottom" is ridiculous.


Not really, this is mainly being done to increase diversity and social inequality.

Just google it, there are plenty of articles. Even though studies show there is value in these tests.

"Yale University had previously studied the value of SAT and ACT scores and found that higher scores predicted better academic success, even when researchers controlled for other factors, said Mark Dunn, Yale’s associate director of admissions."

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/col...-rcna23574
05-13-2022 06:20 AM
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Bronco'14 Offline
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Post: #82
RE: Michigan universities see decline in enrollment; numbers increase at community colleg
Schools like ours shouldn't really have them. I know many alumni/students who did very poor on the ACT but still did well at Western.

But it's terrible the top schools are ditching them. That's one of the ways they keep a low acceptance rate.
(This post was last modified: 05-13-2022 09:35 AM by Bronco'14.)
05-13-2022 09:34 AM
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AllBronco Offline
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Post: #83
RE: Michigan universities see decline in enrollment; numbers increase at community colleg
(05-13-2022 12:58 AM)ColinApocalypse Wrote:  
(05-12-2022 10:20 PM)broncofan1 Wrote:  
(05-12-2022 08:09 AM)AllBronco Wrote:  1. Make appointments with high school principles to meet their seniors in their school auditorium.
2, Give them a power point presentation on everything WMU offers.
3. Answer all their questions.
4. Pass out brochures of information about WMU, and enrollment applications with self address envelopes.

Maybe WMU has a group of people that already does that. I don’t have any idea of how WMU recruits students. Maybe one of our poster here could fill us in.

Literally every single college and university does this.

You may be right, but I don't remember seeing a single presentation at my school. In fact, I don't remember seeing anyone from any college in our school, ever. Despite my HS having a 99% graduation rate, and a really high percentage of grads that went on to college. Now this was about 15 years ago, maybe things have changed. I dunno. I remember the National Guard table in the cafeteria though, lol. I swear those recruiters were there every other week.

I went to Roosevelt High School in Wyandotte, and no colleges ever sent anyone to recruit students when I was there. If colleges ever came to recruit at your high school tell us about it.
05-13-2022 10:04 AM
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bronco74 Offline
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Post: #84
RE: Michigan universities see decline in enrollment; numbers increase at community colleg
(05-13-2022 10:04 AM)AllBronco Wrote:  
(05-13-2022 12:58 AM)ColinApocalypse Wrote:  
(05-12-2022 10:20 PM)broncofan1 Wrote:  
(05-12-2022 08:09 AM)AllBronco Wrote:  1. Make appointments with high school principles to meet their seniors in their school auditorium.
2, Give them a power point presentation on everything WMU offers.
3. Answer all their questions.
4. Pass out brochures of information about WMU, and enrollment applications with self address envelopes.

Maybe WMU has a group of people that already does that. I don’t have any idea of how WMU recruits students. Maybe one of our poster here could fill us in.

Literally every single college and university does this.

You may be right, but I don't remember seeing a single presentation at my school. In fact, I don't remember seeing anyone from any college in our school, ever. Despite my HS having a 99% graduation rate, and a really high percentage of grads that went on to college. Now this was about 15 years ago, maybe things have changed. I dunno. I remember the National Guard table in the cafeteria though, lol. I swear those recruiters were there every other week.

I went to Roosevelt High School in Wyandotte, and no colleges ever sent anyone to recruit students when I was there. If colleges ever came to recruit at your high school tell us about it.
In my senior year, 1970, there was rep from Western who came to talk to interested students. It wasn’t much of presentation, no slide show or film. He passed out the course catalog. I had neighbors who were attending WMU and they helped me make the decision to attend.
05-13-2022 12:11 PM
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broncofan1 Online
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Post: #85
RE: Michigan universities see decline in enrollment; numbers increase at community colleg
(05-13-2022 10:04 AM)AllBronco Wrote:  
(05-13-2022 12:58 AM)ColinApocalypse Wrote:  
(05-12-2022 10:20 PM)broncofan1 Wrote:  
(05-12-2022 08:09 AM)AllBronco Wrote:  1. Make appointments with high school principles to meet their seniors in their school auditorium.
2, Give them a power point presentation on everything WMU offers.
3. Answer all their questions.
4. Pass out brochures of information about WMU, and enrollment applications with self address envelopes.

Maybe WMU has a group of people that already does that. I don’t have any idea of how WMU recruits students. Maybe one of our poster here could fill us in.

Literally every single college and university does this.

You may be right, but I don't remember seeing a single presentation at my school. In fact, I don't remember seeing anyone from any college in our school, ever. Despite my HS having a 99% graduation rate, and a really high percentage of grads that went on to college. Now this was about 15 years ago, maybe things have changed. I dunno. I remember the National Guard table in the cafeteria though, lol. I swear those recruiters were there every other week.

I went to Roosevelt High School in Wyandotte, and no colleges ever sent anyone to recruit students when I was there. If colleges ever came to recruit at your high school tell us about it.

Wrong.

I WENT TO YOUR SCHOOL TO RECRUIT.

Early '00's.
05-13-2022 03:52 PM
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AllBronco Offline
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Post: #86
RE: Michigan universities see decline in enrollment; numbers increase at community colleg
(05-13-2022 03:52 PM)broncofan1 Wrote:  
(05-13-2022 10:04 AM)AllBronco Wrote:  
(05-13-2022 12:58 AM)ColinApocalypse Wrote:  
(05-12-2022 10:20 PM)broncofan1 Wrote:  
(05-12-2022 08:09 AM)AllBronco Wrote:  1. Make appointments with high school principles to meet their seniors in their school auditorium.
2, Give them a power point presentation on everything WMU offers.
3. Answer all their questions.
4. Pass out brochures of information about WMU, and enrollment applications with self address envelopes.

Maybe WMU has a group of people that already does that. I don’t have any idea of how WMU recruits students. Maybe one of our poster here could fill us in.

Literally every single college and university does this.

You may be right, but I don't remember seeing a single presentation at my school. In fact, I don't remember seeing anyone from any college in our school, ever. Despite my HS having a 99% graduation rate, and a really high percentage of grads that went on to college. Now this was about 15 years ago, maybe things have changed. I dunno. I remember the National Guard table in the cafeteria though, lol. I swear those recruiters were there every other week.

I went to Roosevelt High School in Wyandotte, and no colleges ever sent anyone to recruit students when I was there. If colleges ever came to recruit at your high school tell us about it.

Wrong.

I WENT TO YOUR SCHOOL TO RECRUIT.

Early '00's.

Not while I was there. But could you describe your recruiting session?
(This post was last modified: 05-13-2022 05:15 PM by AllBronco.)
05-13-2022 05:13 PM
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Cocksman Offline
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Post: #87
RE: Michigan universities see decline in enrollment; numbers increase at community colleg
(05-13-2022 05:13 PM)AllBronco Wrote:  
(05-13-2022 03:52 PM)broncofan1 Wrote:  
(05-13-2022 10:04 AM)AllBronco Wrote:  
(05-13-2022 12:58 AM)ColinApocalypse Wrote:  
(05-12-2022 10:20 PM)broncofan1 Wrote:  Literally every single college and university does this.

You may be right, but I don't remember seeing a single presentation at my school. In fact, I don't remember seeing anyone from any college in our school, ever. Despite my HS having a 99% graduation rate, and a really high percentage of grads that went on to college. Now this was about 15 years ago, maybe things have changed. I dunno. I remember the National Guard table in the cafeteria though, lol. I swear those recruiters were there every other week.

I went to Roosevelt High School in Wyandotte, and no colleges ever sent anyone to recruit students when I was there. If colleges ever came to recruit at your high school tell us about it.

Wrong.

I WENT TO YOUR SCHOOL TO RECRUIT.

Early '00's.

Not while I was there. But could you describe your recruiting session?

The closest I’ve ever seen to colleges being in a high school is a college school table manned by a person on career day or college night. Never seen one college get treatment to do a speech to the entire school
05-13-2022 05:41 PM
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BaldingBroncoFan Offline
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Post: #88
RE: Michigan universities see decline in enrollment; numbers increase at community colleg
Grand Valley, using a WK Kellogg Foundation grant, has someone at Battle Creek Central. They also have an office in downtown BC but don't know what kind of outreach they have into other area schools. Great program but I highly doubt they would be doing it without the $15.5 million Foundation money.

https://www.battlecreekpublicschools.org...laboration
05-13-2022 07:55 PM
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BroncoPhilly Offline
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Post: #89
RE: Michigan universities see decline in enrollment; numbers increase at community colleg
(05-13-2022 05:41 PM)Cocksman Wrote:  
(05-13-2022 05:13 PM)AllBronco Wrote:  
(05-13-2022 03:52 PM)broncofan1 Wrote:  
(05-13-2022 10:04 AM)AllBronco Wrote:  
(05-13-2022 12:58 AM)ColinApocalypse Wrote:  You may be right, but I don't remember seeing a single presentation at my school. In fact, I don't remember seeing anyone from any college in our school, ever. Despite my HS having a 99% graduation rate, and a really high percentage of grads that went on to college. Now this was about 15 years ago, maybe things have changed. I dunno. I remember the National Guard table in the cafeteria though, lol. I swear those recruiters were there every other week.

I went to Roosevelt High School in Wyandotte, and no colleges ever sent anyone to recruit students when I was there. If colleges ever came to recruit at your high school tell us about it.

Wrong.

I WENT TO YOUR SCHOOL TO RECRUIT.

Early '00's.

Not while I was there. But could you describe your recruiting session?

The closest I’ve ever seen to colleges being in a high school is a college school table manned by a person on career day or college night. Never seen one college get treatment to do a speech to the entire school

Nobody ever came to my HS from any of the colleges. We had a bookcase full of college catalogs, that's it.
05-13-2022 10:37 PM
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BroncoPhilly Offline
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Post: #90
RE: Michigan universities see decline in enrollment; numbers increase at community colleg
(05-12-2022 10:19 PM)broncofan1 Wrote:  
(05-12-2022 04:12 PM)GRBRONCO Wrote:  It's the latest woke thing to do, drop standardized testing due to social equity concerns. Which is why I expect WMU to jump on the bandwagon any day now if they haven't already.

No, it's not. "Woke" has nothing to do with this move. There is little reliable data showing that an ACT or SAT score has any bearing on a student's ability to earn a college degree. College Board turned it into a "need" for admissions criteria with little direct data to show why.

A test taken by a kid in their junior year of high school just doesn't predict how they will do when they start college more than a year later.

This talk about a "race to the bottom" is ridiculous.

These tests are no panacea, but they are one way of determining which potential students have a better background for the college classes they are likely to take. Perfect? No. Better than nothing? Yes.

Likewise for GPA.

What's your proposal? Get rid of all ranking criteria and then pick names out of a bottle? Instead of condemning the historical measures used to separate applicants how about suggesting some that might be more effective? Some college programs are in high demand, they can't let in all applicants. How do you propose they select?
(This post was last modified: 05-13-2022 10:43 PM by BroncoPhilly.)
05-13-2022 10:42 PM
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broncofan1 Online
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Post: #91
RE: Michigan universities see decline in enrollment; numbers increase at community colleg
(05-13-2022 10:37 PM)BroncoPhilly Wrote:  
(05-13-2022 05:41 PM)Cocksman Wrote:  
(05-13-2022 05:13 PM)AllBronco Wrote:  
(05-13-2022 03:52 PM)broncofan1 Wrote:  
(05-13-2022 10:04 AM)AllBronco Wrote:  I went to Roosevelt High School in Wyandotte, and no colleges ever sent anyone to recruit students when I was there. If colleges ever came to recruit at your high school tell us about it.

Wrong.

I WENT TO YOUR SCHOOL TO RECRUIT.

Early '00's.

Not while I was there. But could you describe your recruiting session?

The closest I’ve ever seen to colleges being in a high school is a college school table manned by a person on career day or college night. Never seen one college get treatment to do a speech to the entire school

Nobody ever came to my HS from any of the colleges. We had a bookcase full of college catalogs, that's it.

Universities have admissions recruiters contact nearly every high school in Michigan and select out-of-state territories to set up visits. Schools do their visits in an variety of ways. Some will only allow reps at a table during lunch. Others will schedule auditoriums for presentations. Still others will only do specific times/days in their counseling centers. It is entirely up to the school.

If you don't see WMU represented at a high school - especially one that is large - then ask the high school. When I was in admissions a hundred years ago, I visited and presented to over 80 schools in the fall season.

Some schools are just too small to warrant a visit. Others are just victims of scheduling. If Portage Central and Galesburg/Augusta can only take your visit on the same day and time, then Portage Central gets the nod due to it's size.
Yesterday 07:21 PM
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broncofan1 Online
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Post: #92
RE: Michigan universities see decline in enrollment; numbers increase at community colleg
(05-13-2022 10:42 PM)BroncoPhilly Wrote:  
(05-12-2022 10:19 PM)broncofan1 Wrote:  
(05-12-2022 04:12 PM)GRBRONCO Wrote:  It's the latest woke thing to do, drop standardized testing due to social equity concerns. Which is why I expect WMU to jump on the bandwagon any day now if they haven't already.

No, it's not. "Woke" has nothing to do with this move. There is little reliable data showing that an ACT or SAT score has any bearing on a student's ability to earn a college degree. College Board turned it into a "need" for admissions criteria with little direct data to show why.

A test taken by a kid in their junior year of high school just doesn't predict how they will do when they start college more than a year later.

This talk about a "race to the bottom" is ridiculous.

These tests are no panacea, but they are one way of determining which potential students have a better background for the college classes they are likely to take. Perfect? No. Better than nothing? Yes.

Likewise for GPA.

What's your proposal? Get rid of all ranking criteria and then pick names out of a bottle? Instead of condemning the historical measures used to separate applicants how about suggesting some that might be more effective? Some college programs are in high demand, they can't let in all applicants. How do you propose they select?

Non-cognitive variable testing, in-class performance, personal statement essays, letters of rec., resumes... There are several ways to determine the potential success rates of students.

I've seen more 4.0 kids with great SAT/ACT scores fail out of college than any other cohort of kids with above a 2.75 coming out of high school.

College is much different in so many respects than high school. Those who know how to study, are self motivated to put in the work, and will advocate for themselves (ie...find help when needed) are going to be successful wherever they go. It doesn't matter if the kid has a 1450 or a 950 SAT.

Working with college students now, I'm much more concerned with the honors kid who is getting his/her first ever 'B' than I am the grinder who is pulling in a CB. One will be devastated. The other motivated.
Yesterday 07:27 PM
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BroncoPhilly Offline
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RE: Michigan universities see decline in enrollment; numbers increase at community colleg
Quote:Non-cognitive variable testing, in-class performance, personal statement essays, letters of rec., resumes... There are several ways to determine the potential success rates of students.

So, your proposal is to replace standardized tests with a long history of acceptance with 'non-cognitive variable testing', whatever that is. One test-one which has an established record with HS students-with something less standardized and probably more subjective?

I get that you don't like the standardized tests, for whatever reason. I fail to see the advantage of replacing them with another kind of test. As for 'in class performance' I suppose that means GPA? If not grades, are you quantifying a students entertainment performance while in HS class? Participation? Attendance? Time sleeping? You're a little vague with that term, pardon me for interjecting a little humor.

'personal statement essays, letters of rec., resumes'.....You're kidding, right? All those things are normally provided anyway when a student applies to top schools, they're next to meaningless because everybody has them.

A school like Harvard or Stanford has to use some criteria to screen applications, because they receive hundreds for every open slot they have. Standardized tests are no assurance of college performance, but then nothing is. All they can do is provide some measure of a students potential that's in a quantifiable metric for easy evaluation. They're not the be all and end all of Acceptance, but they are used to screen out folks who clearly don't have the academic background to make the most of that opportunity. Nothing you proposed seems any better, in fact it's a step backwards in my opinion.
(This post was last modified: Today 10:40 AM by BroncoPhilly.)
Today 10:34 AM
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broncofan1 Online
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Post: #94
RE: MI universities see decline in enrollment
(Today 10:34 AM)BroncoPhilly Wrote:  
Quote:Non-cognitive variable testing, in-class performance, personal statement essays, letters of rec., resumes... There are several ways to determine the potential success rates of students.

So, your proposal is to replace standardized tests with a long history of acceptance with 'non-cognitive variable testing', whatever that is. One test-one which has an established record with HS students-with something less standardized and probably more subjective?

Not exactly. Read "Beyond the Big Test" by William Sedlacek and the mountain of research done beyond that. Besides, subjectivity in college admissions is not necessarily a bad thing. We aren't recruiting robots.

I get that you don't like the standardized tests, for whatever reason. I fail to see the advantage of replacing them with another kind of test. As for 'in class performance' I suppose that means GPA?

Yes, GPA. It's not that I don't like standardized tests, but using them as the primary entry method into Universities has not worked.

'personal statement essays, letters of rec., resumes'.....You're kidding, right? All those things are normally provided anyway when a student applies to top schools, they're next to meaningless because everybody has them.

Not kidding, and they are NOT meaningless. They add context to a student's academic profile not found elsewhere.

A school like Harvard or Stanford...

I've got some tough news for you. WMU isn't Harvard or Stanford. Who we admit into the University is NOT the problem you're trying so hard to make it out to be.
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broncofan1 Online
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Post: #95
RE: Michigan universities see decline in enrollment; numbers increase at community colleg
Just spoke with a friend over in Admissions. WMU had over 20,000 applications this year. Best in a long time.

Also bringing in some 500+ new transfer students, mostly from area community colleges.
Today 12:11 PM
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