(04-08-2022 11:18 AM)Cubanbull1 Wrote:  

(04-08-2022 10:56 AM)Noise Penalty Wrote:  

(04-06-2022 07:28 PM)Cubanbull1 Wrote:  An OCS is NOT a magical formula that gets you to winning, most college football schools have an OCS and they aren’t winning.

Does an OCS enhance the college experience, absolutely.

USF and UCF were are two different points when UCF built its stadium, and had they hired badly as USF did with Holtz and Strong and had losing seasons, the stadium wouldn’t have save them.

All USF fans have repeatedly said that when USF built its OCS it wouldn’t be like UCF’s, this where we are now talking about 250 million to build it. I always said USF wouldn’t built one unless a big donor came along or it was told by a Power conference they needed to build one.

Let’s look back at the Taggart years, anyone thinks that had he stayed at USF and the Bulls were winning 10+ games a year that the Big 12 would have said sorry you don’t have an OCS, but we will take UCF even if they aren’t wining because they have an OCS.

The thing that has hurt USF the most is bad hires at the wrong times. With that said, is Scott the right hire? Guess we will find out in next two years. Will an OCS help USF? It won’t hurt and it will help the college experience for students, will it help USF win? That depends more on who is the coach.

Prime example FIU, has an OCS but horrific football

I have to disagree (surprise) to some extent. Having an OCS is not the magic ticket, but having the right program culture is. UCF has had many disappointing seasons in their stadium and especially in the early years. But having the OCS did what GOL wanted, which was to connect the football program to the students and the campus. This transformed the culture. So even in a bad season students come because it is easy. Even if they don't come into the game they tailgate or they come in for a half. The on campus culture student does not really care that much about who UCF is playing. They want to party and it is a social event that connects the students with the program even if they dont like or understand football. It spawned game day traditions both outside and inside the stadium that never would have materialized 10 miles from campus. For UCF the OCS is the #1 reason for the transformation in the program, hands down.

Winning helps, but the OCS built a program culture. That culture does not care if the OCS is ugly, metal, hot, rusty Etc.. IMO from a fan standpoint usf lacks program identity and a true connection to its students. An OCS would help establish that. Why it is necessary to spend $250-400 million for that when it can be done cheaper and quicker this UCF fan will never understand.

usf is not FIU. Not by a long shot. usf has the bones in place.

The OCS does help the culture and I did say that, but without good coaching and winning an OCS is just an on campus stadium. ucf was very lucky on not hiring a coach that would derail their winning streak.
With that said, I’m fine with the steps USF is currently making and as you said USF has too many good things going for it to not reach higher goals.

As for FAU, I welcome series with them as long as we are in AAC together, it’s a close and nice trips for both fan bases.

Question for you. How much was coaching and how much was school leadership. I had always heard that JL and Judy did not see eye to eye. Partially why it ended how it did. I don't think it is any secret that JL took some questionable players academically and Judy was all about the academics. I have also heard that Skip was given the task of continuing the success that JL had with an unreasonable goal for admissions. Not sure how much is legend and how much is truth. Seems that there was some truth to it,

couldn't have been no more unreasonable than "no more non-qualifiers and partial qualifiers" or something like that.

(04-08-2022 02:44 PM)Noise Penalty Wrote:  

(04-08-2022 11:18 AM)Cubanbull1 Wrote:  

(04-08-2022 10:56 AM)Noise Penalty Wrote:  

(04-06-2022 07:28 PM)Cubanbull1 Wrote:  An OCS is NOT a magical formula that gets you to winning, most college football schools have an OCS and they aren’t winning.

Does an OCS enhance the college experience, absolutely.

USF and UCF were are two different points when UCF built its stadium, and had they hired badly as USF did with Holtz and Strong and had losing seasons, the stadium wouldn’t have save them.

All USF fans have repeatedly said that when USF built its OCS it wouldn’t be like UCF’s, this where we are now talking about 250 million to build it. I always said USF wouldn’t built one unless a big donor came along or it was told by a Power conference they needed to build one.

Let’s look back at the Taggart years, anyone thinks that had he stayed at USF and the Bulls were winning 10+ games a year that the Big 12 would have said sorry you don’t have an OCS, but we will take UCF even if they aren’t wining because they have an OCS.

The thing that has hurt USF the most is bad hires at the wrong times. With that said, is Scott the right hire? Guess we will find out in next two years. Will an OCS help USF? It won’t hurt and it will help the college experience for students, will it help USF win? That depends more on who is the coach.

Prime example FIU, has an OCS but horrific football

I have to disagree (surprise) to some extent. Having an OCS is not the magic ticket, but having the right program culture is. UCF has had many disappointing seasons in their stadium and especially in the early years. But having the OCS did what GOL wanted, which was to connect the football program to the students and the campus. This transformed the culture. So even in a bad season students come because it is easy. Even if they don't come into the game they tailgate or they come in for a half. The on campus culture student does not really care that much about who UCF is playing. They want to party and it is a social event that connects the students with the program even if they dont like or understand football. It spawned game day traditions both outside and inside the stadium that never would have materialized 10 miles from campus. For UCF the OCS is the #1 reason for the transformation in the program, hands down.

Winning helps, but the OCS built a program culture. That culture does not care if the OCS is ugly, metal, hot, rusty Etc.. IMO from a fan standpoint usf lacks program identity and a true connection to its students. An OCS would help establish that. Why it is necessary to spend $250-400 million for that when it can be done cheaper and quicker this UCF fan will never understand.

usf is not FIU. Not by a long shot. usf has the bones in place.

The OCS does help the culture and I did say that, but without good coaching and winning an OCS is just an on campus stadium. ucf was very lucky on not hiring a coach that would derail their winning streak.
With that said, I’m fine with the steps USF is currently making and as you said USF has too many good things going for it to not reach higher goals.

As for FAU, I welcome series with them as long as we are in AAC together, it’s a close and nice trips for both fan bases.

Question for you. How much was coaching and how much was school leadership. I had always heard that JL and Judy did not see eye to eye. Partially why it ended how it did. I don't think it is any secret that JL took some questionable players academically and Judy was all about the academics. I have also heard that Skip was given the task of continuing the success that JL had with an unreasonable goal for admissions. Not sure how much is legend and how much is truth. Seems that there was some truth to it,

Both are important. It is true that our leadership with JG wasn’t all that pro- sports and didn’t push to improve but also coaching is huge while both Holtz and Strong weren’t given as much support as they should have, both didn’t help their cause by how they coached and acted while there.
Example.
Holtz came in and went 12-5 in first 17 games and then went 4-16, he then proceeded to go golfing rather than being on campus on one of biggest recruiting weekend.

Taggart came in under same circumstances as Holtz, except no longer in Big East. He went 7-21 in first games and then 18-4, worked hard in cultivating area recruits and coaches, went all over state meeting alumni and supporters

Strong comes in under same circumstances as Taggart and goes 17-2 at start and then 4-14, Strong wouldn’t even meet supporters around the state, he didn’t want to get involved in anything outside the field

So you can see the pattern between all three, with Strong and Holtz starting with great records riding the wave of winning teams left by previous coaches and then crashing. Taggart goes the opposite way.

So yes not having a supportive leadership willing to push you hurt all three, you can see that coaching was also a big part.

Now we see with Scott something similar to Taggart’s early years, a losing record, but working really hard in recruiting area, and making ties to alumni. He now also has an administration willing to push athletics as can be seen by the IPF and now OCS. The big question will it translate to winning and can he do the turnaround like Taggart did?

(04-08-2022 03:09 PM)Cubanbull1 Wrote:  

(04-08-2022 02:44 PM)Noise Penalty Wrote:  

(04-08-2022 11:18 AM)Cubanbull1 Wrote:  

(04-08-2022 10:56 AM)Noise Penalty Wrote:  

(04-06-2022 07:28 PM)Cubanbull1 Wrote:  An OCS is NOT a magical formula that gets you to winning, most college football schools have an OCS and they aren’t winning.

Does an OCS enhance the college experience, absolutely.

USF and UCF were are two different points when UCF built its stadium, and had they hired badly as USF did with Holtz and Strong and had losing seasons, the stadium wouldn’t have save them.

All USF fans have repeatedly said that when USF built its OCS it wouldn’t be like UCF’s, this where we are now talking about 250 million to build it. I always said USF wouldn’t built one unless a big donor came along or it was told by a Power conference they needed to build one.

Let’s look back at the Taggart years, anyone thinks that had he stayed at USF and the Bulls were winning 10+ games a year that the Big 12 would have said sorry you don’t have an OCS, but we will take UCF even if they aren’t wining because they have an OCS.

The thing that has hurt USF the most is bad hires at the wrong times. With that said, is Scott the right hire? Guess we will find out in next two years. Will an OCS help USF? It won’t hurt and it will help the college experience for students, will it help USF win? That depends more on who is the coach.

Prime example FIU, has an OCS but horrific football

I have to disagree (surprise) to some extent. Having an OCS is not the magic ticket, but having the right program culture is. UCF has had many disappointing seasons in their stadium and especially in the early years. But having the OCS did what GOL wanted, which was to connect the football program to the students and the campus. This transformed the culture. So even in a bad season students come because it is easy. Even if they don't come into the game they tailgate or they come in for a half. The on campus culture student does not really care that much about who UCF is playing. They want to party and it is a social event that connects the students with the program even if they dont like or understand football. It spawned game day traditions both outside and inside the stadium that never would have materialized 10 miles from campus. For UCF the OCS is the #1 reason for the transformation in the program, hands down.

Winning helps, but the OCS built a program culture. That culture does not care if the OCS is ugly, metal, hot, rusty Etc.. IMO from a fan standpoint usf lacks program identity and a true connection to its students. An OCS would help establish that. Why it is necessary to spend $250-400 million for that when it can be done cheaper and quicker this UCF fan will never understand.

usf is not FIU. Not by a long shot. usf has the bones in place.

The OCS does help the culture and I did say that, but without good coaching and winning an OCS is just an on campus stadium. ucf was very lucky on not hiring a coach that would derail their winning streak.
With that said, I’m fine with the steps USF is currently making and as you said USF has too many good things going for it to not reach higher goals.

As for FAU, I welcome series with them as long as we are in AAC together, it’s a close and nice trips for both fan bases.

Question for you. How much was coaching and how much was school leadership. I had always heard that JL and Judy did not see eye to eye. Partially why it ended how it did. I don't think it is any secret that JL took some questionable players academically and Judy was all about the academics. I have also heard that Skip was given the task of continuing the success that JL had with an unreasonable goal for admissions. Not sure how much is legend and how much is truth. Seems that there was some truth to it,

Both are important. It is true that our leadership with JG wasn’t all that pro- sports and didn’t push to improve but also coaching is huge while both Holtz and Strong weren’t given as much support as they should have, both didn’t help their cause by how they coached and acted while there.
Example.
Holtz came in and went 12-5 in first 17 games and then went 4-16, he then proceeded to go golfing rather than being on campus on one of biggest recruiting weekend.

Taggart came in under same circumstances as Holtz, except no longer in Big East. He went 7-21 in first games and then 18-4, worked hard in cultivating area recruits and coaches, went all over state meeting alumni and supporters

Strong comes in under same circumstances as Taggart and goes 17-2 at start and then 4-14, Strong wouldn’t even meet supporters around the state, he didn’t want to get involved in anything outside the field

So you can see the pattern between all three, with Strong and Holtz starting with great records riding the wave of winning teams left by previous coaches and then crashing. Taggart goes the opposite way.

So yes not having a supportive leadership willing to push you hurt all three, you can see that coaching was also a big part.

Now we see with Scott something similar to Taggart’s early years, a losing record, but working really hard in recruiting area, and making ties to alumni. He now also has an administration willing to push athletics as can be seen by the IPF and now OCS. The big question will it translate to winning and can he do the turnaround like Taggart did?

Can't argue with this... Kudos man.

(04-07-2022 08:50 AM)otown Wrote:  

(04-07-2022 08:23 AM)ArmoredUpKnight Wrote:  

(04-07-2022 05:47 AM)OwlFamily Wrote:  I have always liked USF and UCF.

To be honest my "Dream" conference would of had all 4 of UCF, USF, FAU, and FIU in it. Would of really generated a lot of travel and fan interest IMHO. But was not to be.

USF has a head start on us, but FAU has done quite a bit of good on the football stage (Yes I know basketball is an issue). Both of us have the same potential that UCF had. It will be interesting to watch how USF and FAU develop in the AAC.

Looking forward to an "1-75" battle annually.

I feel like FAU was built better than usf. Its been a natural progression. Schnellenberger was a program builder and laid a good foundation. FAU won a couple championships and bowl games. Built a stadium, got a couple kids drafted, jumped around some conferences...

usf was like trailer park to #2 in the country held up by bubble gum and bandwagon Bucs fans. When all that crumbled they are scrambling to build the program up now because they tried to skip a lot of steps.

FAU will likely surpass usf soon. I'll be rooting for the Owls in the I-75 Battle.

Even if FAU wins the new rivalry head to head with USF, they will never move up anywhere until the high school gym is retired. Without some investment in the bball program, AAC is their ceiling.

I've always thought rivalries, with limited exceptions, had to be in the same conference. I never really thought of UCF as a rival until we were both in the AAC. Now with them in the B12 I won't be a real rivalry to me... UCF will be busy worrying about B12 opponents. We'll be working on winning the AAC, and making the access bowl. We have different priorities.

That said, it's not enough to just end up in the same conference. USF UCF had a bit of history before we ended up in the same conference, and the schools were pretty close in proximity. That really kick started things when we finally ended up in the same conference.

We have absolutely none of this with FAU, history nor proximity, and I won't consider them a rival any more than Charlotte, Rice, or whomever. You just can't 'declare' it to be so. UCF and Uconn found this out! ;-)

IF we end up with FAU in the same conference for a long time, and we start kicking each others teeth in every now and then... it might become a rivalry. Despite what the conference might want, to gin up TV viewers, it's just not there yet and won't be for a long time.

Nonetheless... welcome Owls. Now go expand your BB arena!

With the NIL and with the uncertainty about a split with the FBS, I wonder if either will be placed among the elite. I know that is not the topic, but is important in the new times of CFB.

(04-08-2022 03:41 PM)Bull Wrote:  IF we end up with FAU in the same conference for a long time, and we start kicking each others teeth in every now and then... it might become a rivalry. Despite what the conference might want, to gin up TV viewers, it's just not there yet and won't be for a long time.

Nonetheless... welcome Owls. Now go expand your BB arena!

Fun Fact:

usf average basketball attendance this year: 2,361

FAU Arena Capacity: 5,000

(04-10-2022 08:34 AM)KnightLight Wrote:  

(04-08-2022 03:41 PM)Bull Wrote:  IF we end up with FAU in the same conference for a long time, and we start kicking each others teeth in every now and then... it might become a rivalry. Despite what the conference might want, to gin up TV viewers, it's just not there yet and won't be for a long time.

Nonetheless... welcome Owls. Now go expand your BB arena!

Fun Fact:

usf average basketball attendance this year: 2,361

FAU Arena Capacity: 5,000

And what was their attendance?
Yes our attendance stinks because our basketball stinks. But the facts are that their arena needs to be upgraded from what it is, it is not up to College standards in this conference. But hey I get it you just wanted to take another pot shot at USF, we know how you live for that.

Here is another fun fact for you, ucf even with a winning record averaged less than 5,000 a game, enough to fit in the FAU arena

(04-10-2022 08:38 AM)Cubanbull1 Wrote:  

(04-10-2022 08:34 AM)KnightLight Wrote:  

(04-08-2022 03:41 PM)Bull Wrote:  IF we end up with FAU in the same conference for a long time, and we start kicking each others teeth in every now and then... it might become a rivalry. Despite what the conference might want, to gin up TV viewers, it's just not there yet and won't be for a long time.

Nonetheless... welcome Owls. Now go expand your BB arena!

Fun Fact:

usf average basketball attendance this year: 2,361

FAU Arena Capacity: 5,000

And what was their attendance?
Yes our attendance stinks because our basketball stinks. But the facts are that their arena needs to be upgraded from what it is, it is not up to College standards in this conference. But hey I get it you just wanted to take another pot shot at USF, we know how you live for that.

Ah...you still don't get it. One usf fan was complaining about FAU's "small" 5,000 seat arena (way bigger than Tulane's), yet his own team didn't average even HALF the capacity of FAU's arena.

Hint: When your average attendance can fit inside most HS gyms, don't knock another's arena...as you will embarass yourself.

PS. I know my team's attendance since I go to all the games.

(04-10-2022 05:48 PM)KnightLight Wrote:  

(04-10-2022 08:38 AM)Cubanbull1 Wrote:  

(04-10-2022 08:34 AM)KnightLight Wrote:  

(04-08-2022 03:41 PM)Bull Wrote:  IF we end up with FAU in the same conference for a long time, and we start kicking each others teeth in every now and then... it might become a rivalry. Despite what the conference might want, to gin up TV viewers, it's just not there yet and won't be for a long time.

Nonetheless... welcome Owls. Now go expand your BB arena!

Fun Fact:

usf average basketball attendance this year: 2,361

FAU Arena Capacity: 5,000

And what was their attendance?
Yes our attendance stinks because our basketball stinks. But the facts are that their arena needs to be upgraded from what it is, it is not up to College standards in this conference. But hey I get it you just wanted to take another pot shot at USF, we know how you live for that.

Ah...you still don't get it. One usf fan was complaining about FAU's "small" 5,000 seat arena (way bigger than Tulane's), yet his own team didn't average even HALF the capacity of FAU's arena.

Hint: When your average attendance can fit inside most HS gyms, don't knock another's arena...as you will embarass yourself.

PS. I know my team's attendance since I go to all the games.

Good lord. This is good example of someone embarrassing themselves and not even knowing it.

First, my comment about the FAU BB arena was a bit tongue in cheek, hence the emoji. When I say it can develop into a rivalry, I'm actually complimenting them. FAU will be fine, and likely eventually be an excellent member of the AAC. They will bring everything up to speed, just like we all did...

Second, do we even have to explain to you how upgrading your facilities will help drive the program forward??

Third, we're chatting FAU and USF. What the hell do you care? Go learn about your new conference mates.

Last, you really ought to lose the USF obsession dude... it's getting old. Some of us can chat sports and facilities like grown ups. Some will never get the boulder sized chip off their shoulder...

(04-10-2022 05:48 PM)KnightLight Wrote:  

(04-10-2022 08:38 AM)Cubanbull1 Wrote:  

(04-10-2022 08:34 AM)KnightLight Wrote:  

(04-08-2022 03:41 PM)Bull Wrote:  IF we end up with FAU in the same conference for a long time, and we start kicking each others teeth in every now and then... it might become a rivalry. Despite what the conference might want, to gin up TV viewers, it's just not there yet and won't be for a long time.

Nonetheless... welcome Owls. Now go expand your BB arena!

Fun Fact:

usf average basketball attendance this year: 2,361

FAU Arena Capacity: 5,000

And what was their attendance?
Yes our attendance stinks because our basketball stinks. But the facts are that their arena needs to be upgraded from what it is, it is not up to College standards in this conference. But hey I get it you just wanted to take another pot shot at USF, we know how you live for that.

Ah...you still don't get it. One usf fan was complaining about FAU's "small" 5,000 seat arena (way bigger than Tulane's), yet his own team didn't average even HALF the capacity of FAU's arena.

Hint: When your average attendance can fit inside most HS gyms, don't knock another's arena...as you will embarass yourself.

PS. I know my team's attendance since I go to all the games.

The fact is that MOST AAC fans including FAU fans would agree that they need to improve and expand their basketball arena. Your constant obsession with USF brought you into the conversation into taking a potshot at our attendance, which we all know is horrible but not surprising due to the status of our basketball program. Then your weak reply to my mentioning you school’s attendance could also fit into FAU’s arena, was to say you attend all the games.

I tell you what get off your obsession regarding USF, your school won’t be in the AAC when FAU comes in so maybe you should just sit this one out, but somehow I think you will still be back on this board, specially if there are any USF news that will still tickle your obsession.

USF is like a drug to you, you can’t quit us.

Don't know where you are all getting your numbers. FAU capacity is 2,900....... NOT 5k

How did we turn a football thread into a basketball attendance thread?

Its gonna take me a LONG while to get used to all this Basketball talk to be honest. It has never been a sport I cared about. My stance on the arena has always been if we can't fill what we have now then why tear down and go bigger? Wont that look even worse if we built a 7,500 - `10,000 arena and can only put 2-3K in it? My understanding is that FAU had a decent team for the first time in a while this year and that the current coach has improved each year. So maybe we are turning a corner on it. Honestly don't know.

Personally I would MUCH rather see a new baseball stadium for FAU as that program has been very consistent and good. I do realize that MBB can be a huge money maker for the confrence and schools, but I just don't see us moving the needle much.

(04-11-2022 11:24 AM)ArmoredUpKnight Wrote:  How did we turn a football thread into a basketball attendance thread?

Ask KL.

(04-11-2022 02:18 PM)OwlFamily Wrote:  Its gonna take me a LONG while to get used to all this Basketball talk to be honest. It has never been a sport I cared about. My stance on the arena has always been if we can't fill what we have now then why tear down and go bigger? Wont that look even worse if we built a 7,500 - `10,000 arena and can only put 2-3K in it? My understanding is that FAU had a decent team for the first time in a while this year and that the current coach has improved each year. So maybe we are turning a corner on it. Honestly don't know.

Personally I would MUCH rather see a new baseball stadium for FAU as that program has been very consistent and good. I do realize that MBB can be a huge money maker for the confrence and schools, but I just don't see us moving the needle much.

Basketball is the second big money maker and while FAU or USF for that matter might never be the big basketball winners in the conference, I think both can and should be able to field decent teams, if we do that we should be able to draw 4,000-6000 fans a game and actually help the RPI of all our teams that would bring us all more revenue from NCAA tournament.
So by our schools being decent in the sport it would help the league hopefully get 2-3 teams into tournament.
The league will have schools like Memphis, Wichita State, Temple, UAB and SMU which have had success in past and would be the league leaders.

Right now the league brings in about 8 million a year from NCAA Tournament Units.