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Lester ... BOH?
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Dylan Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Lester ... BOH?
(04-02-2022 11:40 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  
(04-02-2022 11:38 AM)MtownTigers916 Wrote:  The saddest thing is that our attrition is independent of the NCAA situation. These players were going to leave months ago due to the incredibly dysfunctional environment Penny set up at the beginning of the year

Bull poop... This is the new reality of college basketball. Practically all teams will be losing 4+ players due to transfer every year from now on. It just is what it is.

Riiiight. I’m sure every single team has zero players in their recruiting class and no assistant coaches in recruiting roles and will have to eventually replace almost their entire starting lineup and backups.

This isn’t normal.
04-02-2022 12:01 PM
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covingtontiger Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Lester ... BOH?
(04-02-2022 11:54 AM)MtownTigers916 Wrote:  Deandre Williams will be next.

As a fan, I’d take Deandre back in a heartbeat. But, if I were a player his age, I would be looking at the next opportunity.

Still, he has to consider where he is in working toward a degree. It would be a shame to leave Memphis without it. And, NIL is a factor too. He has to compare what he can draw from NIL with what dollars are available to him overseas or in the D league (if they even want a guy his age).

This will be interesting.
04-02-2022 12:08 PM
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msu35 Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Lester ... BOH?
(04-02-2022 12:01 PM)Dylan Wrote:  
(04-02-2022 11:40 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  
(04-02-2022 11:38 AM)MtownTigers916 Wrote:  The saddest thing is that our attrition is independent of the NCAA situation. These players were going to leave months ago due to the incredibly dysfunctional environment Penny set up at the beginning of the year

Bull poop... This is the new reality of college basketball. Practically all teams will be losing 4+ players due to transfer every year from now on. It just is what it is.

Riiiight. I’m sure every single team has zero players in their recruiting class and no assistant coaches in recruiting roles and will have to eventually replace almost their entire starting lineup and backups.

This isn’t normal.

I guess you're forgetting that three of our players at this point are also planning to declare for the NBA draft. Another three either didn't play or didn't play much, and want to go somewhere they have a better chance of playing significant minutes. How does that surprise anyone or demonstrate that the sky is falling? LSU is literally losing every single player. With the new rules, transfers will very much become the new normal. Get used to it.
04-02-2022 12:10 PM
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Dylan Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Lester ... BOH?
(04-02-2022 12:10 PM)msu35 Wrote:  
(04-02-2022 12:01 PM)Dylan Wrote:  
(04-02-2022 11:40 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  
(04-02-2022 11:38 AM)MtownTigers916 Wrote:  The saddest thing is that our attrition is independent of the NCAA situation. These players were going to leave months ago due to the incredibly dysfunctional environment Penny set up at the beginning of the year

Bull poop... This is the new reality of college basketball. Practically all teams will be losing 4+ players due to transfer every year from now on. It just is what it is.

Riiiight. I’m sure every single team has zero players in their recruiting class and no assistant coaches in recruiting roles and will have to eventually replace almost their entire starting lineup and backups.

This isn’t normal.

I guess you're forgetting that three of our players at this point are also planning to declare for the NBA draft. Another three either didn't play or didn't play much, and want to go somewhere they have a better chance of playing significant minutes. How does that surprise anyone or demonstrate that the sky is falling? LSU is literally losing every single player. With the new rules, transfers will very much become the new normal. Get used to it.

So LSU is our standard bearer? You pick the worst situation in the country and say “at least we aren’t them”? Hopefully this forces him to build a culture and changes our approach.

All the teams that rebuilt through the transfer portal (Texas, Texas Tech, Iowa State) had head coaching changes, like LSU.

I challenge anyone to find a situation where a team lost this much and lost assistants and had the entire class ask for their release with a coach that remained.

Transfer portal door isn’t closed, it’s still open. We will lose more. Hopefully we can find talent and build a team that compete but you guys are asking a lot of one man. Might be best to see it for what it is and get ready for a complete rebuild.
(This post was last modified: 04-02-2022 12:21 PM by Dylan.)
04-02-2022 12:20 PM
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msu35 Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Lester ... BOH?
(04-02-2022 12:20 PM)Dylan Wrote:  
(04-02-2022 12:10 PM)msu35 Wrote:  
(04-02-2022 12:01 PM)Dylan Wrote:  
(04-02-2022 11:40 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  
(04-02-2022 11:38 AM)MtownTigers916 Wrote:  The saddest thing is that our attrition is independent of the NCAA situation. These players were going to leave months ago due to the incredibly dysfunctional environment Penny set up at the beginning of the year

Bull poop... This is the new reality of college basketball. Practically all teams will be losing 4+ players due to transfer every year from now on. It just is what it is.

Riiiight. I’m sure every single team has zero players in their recruiting class and no assistant coaches in recruiting roles and will have to eventually replace almost their entire starting lineup and backups.

This isn’t normal.

I guess you're forgetting that three of our players at this point are also planning to declare for the NBA draft. Another three either didn't play or didn't play much, and want to go somewhere they have a better chance of playing significant minutes. How does that surprise anyone or demonstrate that the sky is falling? LSU is literally losing every single player. With the new rules, transfers will very much become the new normal. Get used to it.

So LSU is our standard bearer? You pick the worst situation in the country and say “at least we aren’t them”? Hopefully this forces him to build a culture and changes our approach.

All the teams that rebuilt through the transfer portal (Texas, Texas Tech, Iowa State) had head coaching changes, like LSU.

I challenge anyone to find a situation where a team lost this much and lost assistants and had the entire class ask for their release with a coach that remained.

Transfer portal door isn’t closed, it’s still open. Hopefully we can find talent and build a team that compete but you guys are asking a lot of one man. Might be best to see it for what it is and get ready for a complete rebuild.

I never said that LSU was the standard bearer. I said the sky isn't falling for us yet, and the players choosing to leave are doing so for reasons I can understand. It is not necessarily related to anything pertaining to the NCAA and our program.

I used LSU as an example of the sky actually falling. In spite of that, it didn't scare away Toppert. Perhaps he understands and realizes that player migration isn't the end of the world. I know I do. I suppose some people freak out over everything, that's fine. Different strokes and all.
04-02-2022 12:26 PM
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Dylan Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Lester ... BOH?
(04-02-2022 12:26 PM)msu35 Wrote:  
(04-02-2022 12:20 PM)Dylan Wrote:  
(04-02-2022 12:10 PM)msu35 Wrote:  
(04-02-2022 12:01 PM)Dylan Wrote:  
(04-02-2022 11:40 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  Bull poop... This is the new reality of college basketball. Practically all teams will be losing 4+ players due to transfer every year from now on. It just is what it is.

Riiiight. I’m sure every single team has zero players in their recruiting class and no assistant coaches in recruiting roles and will have to eventually replace almost their entire starting lineup and backups.

This isn’t normal.

I guess you're forgetting that three of our players at this point are also planning to declare for the NBA draft. Another three either didn't play or didn't play much, and want to go somewhere they have a better chance of playing significant minutes. How does that surprise anyone or demonstrate that the sky is falling? LSU is literally losing every single player. With the new rules, transfers will very much become the new normal. Get used to it.

So LSU is our standard bearer? You pick the worst situation in the country and say “at least we aren’t them”? Hopefully this forces him to build a culture and changes our approach.

All the teams that rebuilt through the transfer portal (Texas, Texas Tech, Iowa State) had head coaching changes, like LSU.

I challenge anyone to find a situation where a team lost this much and lost assistants and had the entire class ask for their release with a coach that remained.

Transfer portal door isn’t closed, it’s still open. Hopefully we can find talent and build a team that compete but you guys are asking a lot of one man. Might be best to see it for what it is and get ready for a complete rebuild.

I never said that LSU was the standard bearer. I said the sky isn't falling for us yet, and the players choosing to leave are doing so for reasons I can understand. It is not necessarily related to anything pertaining to the NCAA and our program.

I used LSU as an example of the sky actually falling. In spite of that, it didn't scare away Toppert. Perhaps he understands and realizes that player migration isn't the end of the world. I know I do. I suppose some people freak out over everything, that's fine. Different strokes and all.

It didn’t scare away Toppert. Think about that. He left here to go there. Why? He didn’t get a bigger role, LSU isn’t a bigger job.

Penny is our coach. He will stay our coach. But again, it’s not that difficult to see what happened. Hopefully it will be fixed. But you are severely understating what we have lost and will lose. It does no good to not accept the situation for what it is. I still love the man and know he’s our best shot and he deserves a chance to fix this. But goodness gracious at every level of sports there is a penalty when you mismanage a roster and don’t have the right culture.
04-02-2022 12:32 PM
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SeñorTiger Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Lester ... BOH?
(04-02-2022 12:20 PM)Dylan Wrote:  
(04-02-2022 12:10 PM)msu35 Wrote:  
(04-02-2022 12:01 PM)Dylan Wrote:  
(04-02-2022 11:40 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  
(04-02-2022 11:38 AM)MtownTigers916 Wrote:  The saddest thing is that our attrition is independent of the NCAA situation. These players were going to leave months ago due to the incredibly dysfunctional environment Penny set up at the beginning of the year

Bull poop... This is the new reality of college basketball. Practically all teams will be losing 4+ players due to transfer every year from now on. It just is what it is.

Riiiight. I’m sure every single team has zero players in their recruiting class and no assistant coaches in recruiting roles and will have to eventually replace almost their entire starting lineup and backups.

This isn’t normal.

I guess you're forgetting that three of our players at this point are also planning to declare for the NBA draft. Another three either didn't play or didn't play much, and want to go somewhere they have a better chance of playing significant minutes. How does that surprise anyone or demonstrate that the sky is falling? LSU is literally losing every single player. With the new rules, transfers will very much become the new normal. Get used to it.

So LSU is our standard bearer? You pick the worst situation in the country and say “at least we aren’t them”? Hopefully this forces him to build a culture and changes our approach.

All the teams that rebuilt through the transfer portal (Texas, Texas Tech, Iowa State) had head coaching changes, like LSU.

I challenge anyone to find a situation where a team lost this much and lost assistants and had the entire class ask for their release with a coach that remained.

Transfer portal door isn’t closed, it’s still open. We will lose more. Hopefully we can find talent and build a team that compete but you guys are asking a lot of one man. Might be best to see it for what it is and get ready for a complete rebuild.

Go do an iota of research on your own... There are over 1,000 transfers in the portal as of today... There are several schools who have lost a significant chunk of their rosters.

I believe someone posted in a different thread (or possibly earlier in this one) that Murray State has like 8 or 10 players transferring. You can try and make this unique to Memphis but that is beyond absurd. It is impacting every college team in the country.
04-02-2022 12:35 PM
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msu35 Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Lester ... BOH?
(04-02-2022 12:32 PM)Dylan Wrote:  It didn’t scare away Toppert. Think about that. He left here to go there. Why? He didn’t get a bigger role, LSU isn’t a bigger job.

Penny is our coach. He will stay our coach. But again, it’s not that difficult to see what happened. Hopefully it will be fixed. But you are severely understating what we have lost and will lose. It does no good to not accept the situation for what it is. I still love the man and know he’s our best shot and he deserves a chance to fix this. But goodness gracious at every level of sports there is a penalty when you mismanage a roster and don’t have the right culture.

You're joking, right? LSU is in the SEC. Maybe you've heard of that conference? If I have to explain the differences between the AAC and the SEC, this will be a difficult conversation. Telling me I don't understand is hilarious coming from someone who can't see how a P5 gig could be advantageous to an ambitious person's career.

The truth is that you have no concrete information that elucidates what's going on in a player's mind. You don't agree with my assessment, fine, but you don't know anything specific unless I'm mistaken. The bottom line is that the players leaving can be attributed to many factors, and I personally don't believe its the end of the program or signals impending doom. Not by a long shot.
04-02-2022 12:41 PM
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Dylan Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Lester ... BOH?
(04-02-2022 12:41 PM)msu35 Wrote:  
(04-02-2022 12:32 PM)Dylan Wrote:  It didn’t scare away Toppert. Think about that. He left here to go there. Why? He didn’t get a bigger role, LSU isn’t a bigger job.

Penny is our coach. He will stay our coach. But again, it’s not that difficult to see what happened. Hopefully it will be fixed. But you are severely understating what we have lost and will lose. It does no good to not accept the situation for what it is. I still love the man and know he’s our best shot and he deserves a chance to fix this. But goodness gracious at every level of sports there is a penalty when you mismanage a roster and don’t have the right culture.

You're joking, right? LSU is in the SEC. Maybe you've heard of that conference? If I have to explain the differences between the AAC and the SEC, this will be a difficult conversation. Telling me I don't understand is hilarious coming from someone who can't see how a P5 gig could be advantageous to an ambitious person's career.

The truth is that you have no concrete information that elucidates what's going on in a player's mind. You don't agree with my assessment, fine, but you don't know anything specific unless I'm mistaken. The bottom line is that the players leaving can be attributed to many factors, and I personally don't believe its the end of the program or signals impending doom. Not by a long shot.

Ok
04-02-2022 12:46 PM
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Dylan Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Lester ... BOH?
(04-02-2022 12:35 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  
(04-02-2022 12:20 PM)Dylan Wrote:  
(04-02-2022 12:10 PM)msu35 Wrote:  
(04-02-2022 12:01 PM)Dylan Wrote:  
(04-02-2022 11:40 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  Bull poop... This is the new reality of college basketball. Practically all teams will be losing 4+ players due to transfer every year from now on. It just is what it is.

Riiiight. I’m sure every single team has zero players in their recruiting class and no assistant coaches in recruiting roles and will have to eventually replace almost their entire starting lineup and backups.

This isn’t normal.

I guess you're forgetting that three of our players at this point are also planning to declare for the NBA draft. Another three either didn't play or didn't play much, and want to go somewhere they have a better chance of playing significant minutes. How does that surprise anyone or demonstrate that the sky is falling? LSU is literally losing every single player. With the new rules, transfers will very much become the new normal. Get used to it.

So LSU is our standard bearer? You pick the worst situation in the country and say “at least we aren’t them”? Hopefully this forces him to build a culture and changes our approach.

All the teams that rebuilt through the transfer portal (Texas, Texas Tech, Iowa State) had head coaching changes, like LSU.

I challenge anyone to find a situation where a team lost this much and lost assistants and had the entire class ask for their release with a coach that remained.

Transfer portal door isn’t closed, it’s still open. We will lose more. Hopefully we can find talent and build a team that compete but you guys are asking a lot of one man. Might be best to see it for what it is and get ready for a complete rebuild.

Go do an iota of research on your own... There are over 1,000 transfers in the portal as of today... There are several schools who have lost a significant chunk of their rosters.

I believe someone posted in a different thread (or possibly earlier in this one) that Murray State has like 8 or 10 players transferring. You can try and make this unique to Memphis but that is beyond absurd. It is impacting every college team in the country.

Nobody is making a unique argument about Memphis for the transfer portal. I’m making a unique argument about Memphis with no incoming freshman and no recruiting assistants. Penny is going to have to replace a large chunk of his rotation and potentially hire 3 lead assistants. That’s going to be incredibly hard. Listen to the Cody Toppert interview before he left. Read Penny’s comments about the experienced players from the losing streak. I am not saying Penny is a bad coach, or a bad person, or that he in any way should be in trouble. We were dysfunctional this year at times and have struggled with our rotation and identity for a while.

All I am simply saying is that this is probably a little bit deeper than your average situation and we are going through what could be an almost entire rebuild directly after our first NCAA win in a long time. It’s unfortunate but it might have been necessary.
(This post was last modified: 04-02-2022 12:56 PM by Dylan.)
04-02-2022 12:54 PM
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BinghamptonNed Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Lester ... BOH?
(04-02-2022 12:26 PM)msu35 Wrote:  
(04-02-2022 12:20 PM)Dylan Wrote:  
(04-02-2022 12:10 PM)msu35 Wrote:  
(04-02-2022 12:01 PM)Dylan Wrote:  
(04-02-2022 11:40 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  Bull poop... This is the new reality of college basketball. Practically all teams will be losing 4+ players due to transfer every year from now on. It just is what it is.

Riiiight. I’m sure every single team has zero players in their recruiting class and no assistant coaches in recruiting roles and will have to eventually replace almost their entire starting lineup and backups.

This isn’t normal.

I guess you're forgetting that three of our players at this point are also planning to declare for the NBA draft. Another three either didn't play or didn't play much, and want to go somewhere they have a better chance of playing significant minutes. How does that surprise anyone or demonstrate that the sky is falling? LSU is literally losing every single player. With the new rules, transfers will very much become the new normal. Get used to it.

So LSU is our standard bearer? You pick the worst situation in the country and say “at least we aren’t them”? Hopefully this forces him to build a culture and changes our approach.

All the teams that rebuilt through the transfer portal (Texas, Texas Tech, Iowa State) had head coaching changes, like LSU.

I challenge anyone to find a situation where a team lost this much and lost assistants and had the entire class ask for their release with a coach that remained.

Transfer portal door isn’t closed, it’s still open. Hopefully we can find talent and build a team that compete but you guys are asking a lot of one man. Might be best to see it for what it is and get ready for a complete rebuild.

I never said that LSU was the standard bearer. I said the sky isn't falling for us yet, and the players choosing to leave are doing so for reasons I can understand. It is not necessarily related to anything pertaining to the NCAA and our program.

I used LSU as an example of the sky actually falling. In spite of that, it didn't scare away Toppert. Perhaps he understands and realizes that player migration isn't the end of the world. I know I do. I suppose some people freak out over everything, that's fine. Different strokes and all.

Toppert did not think the LSU situation was ideal, Just better than here
04-02-2022 01:08 PM
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msu35 Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Lester ... BOH?
(04-02-2022 01:08 PM)BinghamptonNed Wrote:  Toppert did not think the LSU situation was ideal, Just better than here

I think any ambitious coach looking to further their career would choose a P5 program, given the chance. Other than that, not sure how LSU's situation is better than ours.
04-02-2022 01:11 PM
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Post: #53
RE: Lester ... BOH?
Sooner or later, an ambitious person will change his situation. Just like he did before he came to us.

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04-02-2022 01:18 PM
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Post: #54
RE: Lester ... BOH?
Penny had too many chiefs on the bench. Memphis is a better job than LSU, but opportunity at LSU is currently better than Memphis because of the dysfunction & drama.

Every team Penny has coached here has been dysfunctional. Too many promises & too little leadership. I like the guy, but he is not a leader.
04-02-2022 02:09 PM
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msu35 Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Lester ... BOH?
(04-02-2022 02:09 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  Penny had too many chiefs on the bench. Memphis is a better job than LSU, but opportunity at LSU is currently better than Memphis because of the dysfunction & drama.

Every team Penny has coached here has been dysfunctional. Too many promises & too little leadership. I like the guy, but he is not a leader.

Not a leader? It is your opinion, but can you demonstrate with facts how you know this? He certainly turned things around after a challenging start to the season. That's called leadership.
04-02-2022 02:56 PM
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Marc Mensa Online
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Post: #56
RE: Lester ... BOH?
(04-02-2022 02:56 PM)msu35 Wrote:  
(04-02-2022 02:09 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  Penny had too many chiefs on the bench. Memphis is a better job than LSU, but opportunity at LSU is currently better than Memphis because of the dysfunction & drama.

Every team Penny has coached here has been dysfunctional. Too many promises & too little leadership. I like the guy, but he is not a leader.

Not a leader? It is your opinion, but can you demonstrate with facts how you know this? He certainly turned things around after a challenging start to the season. That's called leadership.

His teams underperform every year.
He turned things around once Bates was gone, but could not repair the damage & keep his squad together.

I have no confidence next season will be better than this one.
04-02-2022 03:14 PM
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msu35 Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Lester ... BOH?
(04-02-2022 03:14 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  His teams underperform every year.
He turned things around once Bates was gone, but could not repair the damage & keep his squad together.

I have no confidence next season will be better than this one.

Interesting narrative. Do you realize it was actually when Williams came back from injury that it turned around. Anything to bash Penny or Bates, though, right? Since you won't have any confidence and hate the coach, no sense pretending to be a fan.

Don't let the door hit you.
(This post was last modified: 04-02-2022 03:20 PM by msu35.)
04-02-2022 03:19 PM
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Marc Mensa Online
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Post: #58
RE: Lester ... BOH?
(04-02-2022 03:19 PM)msu35 Wrote:  
(04-02-2022 03:14 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  His teams underperform every year.
He turned things around once Bates was gone, but could not repair the damage & keep his squad together.

I have no confidence next season will be better than this one.

Interesting narrative. Do you realize it was actually when Williams came back from injury that it turned around. Anything to bash Penny or Bates, though, right? Since you won't have any confidence and hate the coach, no sense pretending to be a fan.

Don't let the door hit you.

I don’t hate Penny. I just don’t think he's a good head coach.
And no, I don’t think the drama that was Memphis basketball last year, coupled with the voluntary mass exodus of players & staff, lends itself to recruiting better talent to replace what we had.

Judging by the recently released FEF attendance numbers, we aren’t in position to be letting the door hit anyone, but it is fun to say.
04-02-2022 03:45 PM
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msu35 Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Lester ... BOH?
(04-02-2022 03:45 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  
(04-02-2022 03:19 PM)msu35 Wrote:  
(04-02-2022 03:14 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  His teams underperform every year.
He turned things around once Bates was gone, but could not repair the damage & keep his squad together.

I have no confidence next season will be better than this one.

Interesting narrative. Do you realize it was actually when Williams came back from injury that it turned around. Anything to bash Penny or Bates, though, right? Since you won't have any confidence and hate the coach, no sense pretending to be a fan.

Don't let the door hit you.

I don’t hate Penny. I just don’t think he's a good head coach.
And no, I don’t think the drama that was Memphis basketball last year, coupled with the voluntary mass exodus of players & staff, lends itself to recruiting better talent to replace what we had.

Judging by the recently released FEF attendance numbers, we aren’t in position to be letting the door hit anyone, but it is fun to say.

Time will tell. Its far too early to know what the team composition will be for next season, but I'm confident Penny will bring good players to Memphis as he has consistently done since getting the job. Then again, I tend to not worry and I trust the coach.

As far as attendance goes, I'm sure they won't miss you. Don't let that discourage you from rooting for another team, with a coach that you like. You don't have to settle for dysfunctional Memphis.
04-02-2022 03:59 PM
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Dylan Offline
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Post: #60
RE: Lester ... BOH?
I appreciate the turnaround tremendously. He saved what could have been an embarrassing situation and rallied the city around it.

He also shouldn’t have been 9-8. We shouldn’t have been a 9 seed. We lost 5 straight with a full team. If anyone had posted here in October that we would be a 9 seed and lose in the second round they would have been laughed at. It’s hard to imagine assembling more talent than that without a single recruit, much less 2 5 stars and couple 4 stars locked and loaded. It will also be tough to build a better staff than Larry Brown and Cody Toppert.

I’m not saying he’s bad, but we all knew there would be a learning curve. Of course he knows basketball, but often that’s not the hardest part of the job. I just think everyone needs to expect a step back before we go forward, just like Cal had when he was here.
04-02-2022 04:56 PM
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