Great post SST.

Truly channeling Bull Durham.

(04-15-2022 02:09 PM)Sic Semper Tyrranis Wrote:  

(04-15-2022 08:52 AM)mrjoolius Wrote:  

(04-15-2022 08:23 AM)Sic Semper Tyrranis Wrote:  I hope your wishful thinking is right. And the future proves out.
Objectively right now it is not realistic to say the Pitt transfer would have started at W&M last season. Nor that incoming freshman would have.
Cochera and Lewis are better than any incoming and they have experience.
3 years of misplaced optimism has been devastating to this program.

They lost on McCorkle who was not a difference maker. I am all for transfers but I do not believe that any transfers are coming that can make a difference let alone an immediate one.

The sky actually fell.

Your thoughts on the status of the team are very clear. I agree with you things are/were bad. My question is, what can they do to make you feel like they are going in the right direction? Is your answer simply fire Dane, blow it up and start over? What kind of transfers do you think will move things forward? Established D1 starters? D2/D3 all-Americans? Under utilized high major kids? This seems to be what Dane & Co are going after to fill in the roster. I agree that counting on freshmen to be a difference maker is often folly. Is your point that you don't think they can get difference makers to come here or that they won't be used right if they are here? IMO, we have a chance, if done correctly, to completely flip this roster and change the outlook for next season. We are bringing in 5 transfers. Good chance that at least 3 of these newcomers are starters. This isn't a transfer trying to fit in with a team. This is a team being built around the transfers. All that's needed is an influx of talent and a committed buy-in. I'm pretty sure we didn't have an abundance of both last year.

I dont believe if you walk across the bridge you’ll marry that person. I don’t believe quantum physics has anything to do with basketball. I don’t believe in running the same hi ball screen play over and over when they aren’t working. I don’t believe NLI, recruiting transfers over your own development, short term fixes, or living in the past huge mistakes. I don’t believe Tony is coming back. I don’t believe Dane is a bad coach or that he would be better with a stache. I don’t believe in recruiting AAU robots trained on Dr Dish. I don’t believe McCorkle (who played less than a minute against us in a 76-40 blowout) was gonna make a difference at W&M. I don’t believe last seasons team had a collective soul.

I believe in the soul of college athletics: education is the goal and athletes grind every day to be their best on and off the court. I believe graduation rates matter (and basketball FGR and GSR rates are now impacted). I believe last seasons team had a bunch of guys that played basketball and very few ball players that bled to win, ached to compete.

I believe in the soul of a team. I believe in man to man defense, pressing when you are down. Running suicides pre-season rather than post-loss, yelling at players instead of just silently not playing them. I believe in outgrinding and hard work. I believe in trusting your teammates. I believe in living values not talking about them. I believe next seasons team will be better. By attrition. By adaption. By work. By addition. By law of averages. I believe Collier is a better ball player than a shooter and that is a positive, you can work on shooting more than heart. I believe Tony turned the corner when necessity made him adapt from his Hampden S. press and run style. I believe D can adapt now too. I believe Mann needs to give Dane an extension (e.g. add 2 years, with a buyout for those 2 years that kicks in only if Dane meets .600 in conference and advances past 1st round of CAA tourney in year 5 on) to empower D. I believe D needs to get at least 1 technical to show his team he cares and will take it on for them as a leader, when you lose 27 games your team needs to know you care enough to get a technical - just once.

I believe in shooters roll, feeding the player on fire, the squeak of a lone players shoes on hardwood Sunday morning, asphalt skinned elbows, hardwood floor burns, turning back up court before your shot goes in once in awhile because you know. I believe you play defense with your heart and feet.

I Believe the last 20 years of W&M basketball have had tremendous success, grad rates, exciting games, gritty players, talented and untalented moments, mistakes and adversity to learn from for fan player and coach, and the players and alums are as proud to say they played here as we are of them. I believe this can be turned around. I hope D has a great weekend with his family and Monday morning he is hard at work on a new vision. Same for all of us

I believe Crash Davis was less than a Saint and I believe better days are to come

Heck of a post and AMEN!!


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(04-15-2022 02:09 PM)Sic Semper Tyrranis Wrote:  

(04-15-2022 08:52 AM)mrjoolius Wrote:  

(04-15-2022 08:23 AM)Sic Semper Tyrranis Wrote:  I hope your wishful thinking is right. And the future proves out.
Objectively right now it is not realistic to say the Pitt transfer would have started at W&M last season. Nor that incoming freshman would have.
Cochera and Lewis are better than any incoming and they have experience.
3 years of misplaced optimism has been devastating to this program.

They lost on McCorkle who was not a difference maker. I am all for transfers but I do not believe that any transfers are coming that can make a difference let alone an immediate one.

The sky actually fell.

Your thoughts on the status of the team are very clear. I agree with you things are/were bad. My question is, what can they do to make you feel like they are going in the right direction? Is your answer simply fire Dane, blow it up and start over? What kind of transfers do you think will move things forward? Established D1 starters? D2/D3 all-Americans? Under utilized high major kids? This seems to be what Dane & Co are going after to fill in the roster. I agree that counting on freshmen to be a difference maker is often folly. Is your point that you don't think they can get difference makers to come here or that they won't be used right if they are here? IMO, we have a chance, if done correctly, to completely flip this roster and change the outlook for next season. We are bringing in 5 transfers. Good chance that at least 3 of these newcomers are starters. This isn't a transfer trying to fit in with a team. This is a team being built around the transfers. All that's needed is an influx of talent and a committed buy-in. I'm pretty sure we didn't have an abundance of both last year.

I dont believe if you walk across the bridge you’ll marry that person. I don’t believe quantum physics has anything to do with basketball. I don’t believe in running the same hi ball screen play over and over when they aren’t working. I don’t believe NLI, recruiting transfers over your own development, short term fixes, or living in the past huge mistakes. I don’t believe Tony is coming back. I don’t believe Dane is a bad coach or that he would be better with a stache. I don’t believe in recruiting AAU robots trained on Dr Dish. I don’t believe McCorkle (who played less than a minute against us in a 76-40 blowout) was gonna make a difference at W&M. I don’t believe last seasons team had a collective soul.

I believe in the soul of college athletics: education is the goal and athletes grind every day to be their best on and off the court. I believe graduation rates matter (and basketball FGR and GSR rates are now impacted). I believe last seasons team had a bunch of guys that played basketball and very few ball players that bled to win, ached to compete.

I believe in the soul of a team. I believe in man to man defense, pressing when you are down. Running suicides pre-season rather than post-loss, yelling at players instead of just silently not playing them. I believe in outgrinding and hard work. I believe in trusting your teammates. I believe in living values not talking about them. I believe next seasons team will be better. By attrition. By adaption. By work. By addition. By law of averages. I believe Collier is a better ball player than a shooter and that is a positive, you can work on shooting more than heart. I believe Tony turned the corner when necessity made him adapt from his Hampden S. press and run style. I believe D can adapt now too. I believe Mann needs to give Dane an extension (e.g. add 2 years, with a buyout for those 2 years that kicks in only if Dane meets .600 in conference and advances past 1st round of CAA tourney in year 5 on) to empower D. I believe D needs to get at least 1 technical to show his team he cares and will take it on for them as a leader, when you lose 27 games your team needs to know you care enough to get a technical - just once.

I believe in shooters roll, feeding the player on fire, the squeak of a lone players shoes on hardwood Sunday morning, asphalt skinned elbows, hardwood floor burns, turning back up court before your shot goes in once in awhile because you know. I believe you play defense with your heart and feet.

I Believe the last 20 years of W&M basketball have had tremendous success, grad rates, exciting games, gritty players, talented and untalented moments, mistakes and adversity to learn from for fan player and coach, and the players and alums are as proud to say they played here as we are of them. I believe this can be turned around. I hope D has a great weekend with his family and Monday morning he is hard at work on a new vision. Same for all of us

I believe Crash Davis was less than a Saint and I believe better days are to come

My thoughts exactly SST, Thanks for posting this!!!

(04-15-2022 02:09 PM)Sic Semper Tyrranis Wrote:  

(04-15-2022 08:52 AM)mrjoolius Wrote:  

(04-15-2022 08:23 AM)Sic Semper Tyrranis Wrote:  I hope your wishful thinking is right. And the future proves out.
Objectively right now it is not realistic to say the Pitt transfer would have started at W&M last season. Nor that incoming freshman would have.
Cochera and Lewis are better than any incoming and they have experience.
3 years of misplaced optimism has been devastating to this program.

They lost on McCorkle who was not a difference maker. I am all for transfers but I do not believe that any transfers are coming that can make a difference let alone an immediate one.

The sky actually fell.

Your thoughts on the status of the team are very clear. I agree with you things are/were bad. My question is, what can they do to make you feel like they are going in the right direction? Is your answer simply fire Dane, blow it up and start over? What kind of transfers do you think will move things forward? Established D1 starters? D2/D3 all-Americans? Under utilized high major kids? This seems to be what Dane & Co are going after to fill in the roster. I agree that counting on freshmen to be a difference maker is often folly. Is your point that you don't think they can get difference makers to come here or that they won't be used right if they are here? IMO, we have a chance, if done correctly, to completely flip this roster and change the outlook for next season. We are bringing in 5 transfers. Good chance that at least 3 of these newcomers are starters. This isn't a transfer trying to fit in with a team. This is a team being built around the transfers. All that's needed is an influx of talent and a committed buy-in. I'm pretty sure we didn't have an abundance of both last year.

I dont believe if you walk across the bridge you’ll marry that person. I don’t believe quantum physics has anything to do with basketball. I don’t believe in running the same hi ball screen play over and over when they aren’t working. I don’t believe NLI, recruiting transfers over your own development, short term fixes, or living in the past huge mistakes. I don’t believe Tony is coming back. I don’t believe Dane is a bad coach or that he would be better with a stache. I don’t believe in recruiting AAU robots trained on Dr Dish. I don’t believe McCorkle (who played less than a minute against us in a 76-40 blowout) was gonna make a difference at W&M. I don’t believe last seasons team had a collective soul.

I believe in the soul of college athletics: education is the goal and athletes grind every day to be their best on and off the court. I believe graduation rates matter (and basketball FGR and GSR rates are now impacted). I believe last seasons team had a bunch of guys that played basketball and very few ball players that bled to win, ached to compete.

I believe in the soul of a team. I believe in man to man defense, pressing when you are down. Running suicides pre-season rather than post-loss, yelling at players instead of just silently not playing them. I believe in outgrinding and hard work. I believe in trusting your teammates. I believe in living values not talking about them. I believe next seasons team will be better. By attrition. By adaption. By work. By addition. By law of averages. I believe Collier is a better ball player than a shooter and that is a positive, you can work on shooting more than heart. I believe Tony turned the corner when necessity made him adapt from his Hampden S. press and run style. I believe D can adapt now too. I believe Mann needs to give Dane an extension (e.g. add 2 years, with a buyout for those 2 years that kicks in only if Dane meets .600 in conference and advances past 1st round of CAA tourney in year 5 on) to empower D. I believe D needs to get at least 1 technical to show his team he cares and will take it on for them as a leader, when you lose 27 games your team needs to know you care enough to get a technical - just once.

I believe in shooters roll, feeding the player on fire, the squeak of a lone players shoes on hardwood Sunday morning, asphalt skinned elbows, hardwood floor burns, turning back up court before your shot goes in once in awhile because you know. I believe you play defense with your heart and feet.

I Believe the last 20 years of W&M basketball have had tremendous success, grad rates, exciting games, gritty players, talented and untalented moments, mistakes and adversity to learn from for fan player and coach, and the players and alums are as proud to say they played here as we are of them. I believe this can be turned around. I hope D has a great weekend with his family and Monday morning he is hard at work on a new vision. Same for all of us

I believe Crash Davis was less than a Saint and I believe better days are to come

I kept waiting for a zinger and pleasantly there was none. I really enjoyed reading your post.

(04-15-2022 02:09 PM)Sic Semper Tyrranis Wrote:  

(04-15-2022 08:52 AM)mrjoolius Wrote:  

(04-15-2022 08:23 AM)Sic Semper Tyrranis Wrote:  I hope your wishful thinking is right. And the future proves out.
Objectively right now it is not realistic to say the Pitt transfer would have started at W&M last season. Nor that incoming freshman would have.
Cochera and Lewis are better than any incoming and they have experience.
3 years of misplaced optimism has been devastating to this program.

They lost on McCorkle who was not a difference maker. I am all for transfers but I do not believe that any transfers are coming that can make a difference let alone an immediate one.

The sky actually fell.

Your thoughts on the status of the team are very clear. I agree with you things are/were bad. My question is, what can they do to make you feel like they are going in the right direction? Is your answer simply fire Dane, blow it up and start over? What kind of transfers do you think will move things forward? Established D1 starters? D2/D3 all-Americans? Under utilized high major kids? This seems to be what Dane & Co are going after to fill in the roster. I agree that counting on freshmen to be a difference maker is often folly. Is your point that you don't think they can get difference makers to come here or that they won't be used right if they are here? IMO, we have a chance, if done correctly, to completely flip this roster and change the outlook for next season. We are bringing in 5 transfers. Good chance that at least 3 of these newcomers are starters. This isn't a transfer trying to fit in with a team. This is a team being built around the transfers. All that's needed is an influx of talent and a committed buy-in. I'm pretty sure we didn't have an abundance of both last year.

I dont believe if you walk across the bridge you’ll marry that person. I don’t believe quantum physics has anything to do with basketball. I don’t believe in running the same hi ball screen play over and over when they aren’t working. I don’t believe NLI, recruiting transfers over your own development, short term fixes, or living in the past huge mistakes. I don’t believe Tony is coming back. I don’t believe Dane is a bad coach or that he would be better with a stache. I don’t believe in recruiting AAU robots trained on Dr Dish. I don’t believe McCorkle (who played less than a minute against us in a 76-40 blowout) was gonna make a difference at W&M. I don’t believe last seasons team had a collective soul.

I believe in the soul of college athletics: education is the goal and athletes grind every day to be their best on and off the court. I believe graduation rates matter (and basketball FGR and GSR rates are now impacted). I believe last seasons team had a bunch of guys that played basketball and very few ball players that bled to win, ached to compete.

I believe in the soul of a team. I believe in man to man defense, pressing when you are down. Running suicides pre-season rather than post-loss, yelling at players instead of just silently not playing them. I believe in outgrinding and hard work. I believe in trusting your teammates. I believe in living values not talking about them. I believe next seasons team will be better. By attrition. By adaption. By work. By addition. By law of averages. I believe Collier is a better ball player than a shooter and that is a positive, you can work on shooting more than heart. I believe Tony turned the corner when necessity made him adapt from his Hampden S. press and run style. I believe D can adapt now too. I believe Mann needs to give Dane an extension (e.g. add 2 years, with a buyout for those 2 years that kicks in only if Dane meets .600 in conference and advances past 1st round of CAA tourney in year 5 on) to empower D. I believe D needs to get at least 1 technical to show his team he cares and will take it on for them as a leader, when you lose 27 games your team needs to know you care enough to get a technical - just once.

I believe in shooters roll, feeding the player on fire, the squeak of a lone players shoes on hardwood Sunday morning, asphalt skinned elbows, hardwood floor burns, turning back up court before your shot goes in once in awhile because you know. I believe you play defense with your heart and feet.

I Believe the last 20 years of W&M basketball have had tremendous success, grad rates, exciting games, gritty players, talented and untalented moments, mistakes and adversity to learn from for fan player and coach, and the players and alums are as proud to say they played here as we are of them. I believe this can be turned around. I hope D has a great weekend with his family and Monday morning he is hard at work on a new vision. Same for all of us

I believe Crash Davis was less than a Saint and I believe better days are to come

Well done.

(04-15-2022 12:00 PM)Sitting bull Wrote:  

(04-15-2022 08:12 AM)LeadBolt Wrote:  Given that a good number of players in the portal don’t end up transferring (ala Luke Loewe), does anyone care to speculate if there are there players who might ”clear waivers” so to speak that may come back and be contributors next season?


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Interesting thought. As of right now, we have 6 in the portal though only one has been picked up, Kochera. Not sure if it is unusual at this point for the other 5 to still be uncommitted?

So just based on the actual facts right now, we have lost one (Kochera) and picked up Collier from ACC Pitt. So are we winning or losing so far in the portal game based on this?

I would be very, very surprised if Blair or Harvey came back.

Lewis could probably have a featured role at some pretty good schools and I'd think he'd have enough options to bet against him bothering with us.

I don't expect to see big players breaking down Hatton's door, but if I were him I wouldn't be all that confident a featured role was upcoming for me. Wouldn't really be surprised if he left or stayed.

From a basketball perspective, Covington is the one who I would think would have the most to gain coming back. On the one hand, he's really shown very little on the court and I cannot imagine a school above our caliber ready to give him big minutes. But our backcourt is in complete shambles and we'd have no choice but to play him. Goodness knows the staff seems to have had much more faith in him than warranted. A school like Canisius and Holy Cross is probably much of the same for him, but if Fordham or CSU-Fullerton really wanted to give him a role, I'd advise him to take it.

That is all, of course, just from a strategic basketball perspective. It may be more important, and unknowable, how much each kid likes the staff at the moment, how frustrated they are with the program, and whether they have anything keeping them in Williamsburg.

(04-15-2022 08:12 AM)LeadBolt Wrote:  Given that a good number of players in the portal don’t end up transferring (ala Luke Loewe), does anyone care to speculate if there are there players who might ”clear waivers” so to speak that may come back and be contributors next season?


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Not sure in the current environment if a player “clears waivers” that the Coach will have a scholarship open for them. Since Kochera has already signed with Davidson, I think Lewis is the only portal player that might have an opportunity to come back based on his potential now that we the Pitt transfer at forward.


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(04-15-2022 08:20 PM)wmmii Wrote:  

(04-15-2022 08:12 AM)LeadBolt Wrote:  Given that a good number of players in the portal don’t end up transferring (ala Luke Loewe), does anyone care to speculate if there are there players who might ”clear waivers” so to speak that may come back and be contributors next season?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not sure in the current environment if a player “clears waivers” that the Coach will have a scholarship open for them. Since Kochera has already signed with Davidson, I think Lewis is the only portal player that might have an opportunity to come back based on his potential now that we the Pitt transfer at forward.

Once a player enters the portal, they forfeit their scholarship. So, essentially WM has six scholarships to offer. Luke Loewe remained in the portal for about a minute after his junior year, until he realized he had forfeited his scholarship and opted back.


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(04-18-2022 08:18 AM)TheRightWay Wrote:  Once a player enters the portal, they forfeit their scholarship. So, essentially WM has six scholarships to offer. Luke Loewe remained in the portal for about a minute after his junior year, until he realized he had forfeited his scholarship and opted back.

I believe there were 5 to offer. Account for Collier, and there are 4 spots left

13 scholarships total
5 scholarships returning (Rice, Milkereit, Rainers, Ayesa, Wight)
3 incoming freshmen (Williams, Karasinski, Lowe)
Loss of Samuels and gain of Hicks don't count since they are PWO.

(04-18-2022 08:39 AM)mrjoolius Wrote:  

(04-18-2022 08:18 AM)TheRightWay Wrote:  Once a player enters the portal, they forfeit their scholarship. So, essentially WM has six scholarships to offer. Luke Loewe remained in the portal for about a minute after his junior year, until he realized he had forfeited his scholarship and opted back.

I believe there were 5 to offer. Account for Collier, and there are 4 spots left

13 scholarships total
5 scholarships returning (Rice, Milkereit, Rainers, Ayesa, Wight)
3 incoming freshmen (Williams, Karasinski, Lowe)
Loss of Samuels and gain of Hicks don't count since they are PWO.

So based on your knowledge (or anyone else), how would you rate the top 5 options we may now have available to pull in? Based I guess on the list we have shown interest….

I wonder if these new transfers will have any impact on Karazinski, Williams, and Lowe in terms of their commitment

It's official Nelson. Committed ..

https://twitter.com/dersnelson4/status/1...pzFRg&s=19