I posed this idea in the deep recesses of another thread but I thought I’d give it its own and bring it up for open discussion. So in my musings of what the 2030s might bring, 24 feels to fluffy but 18 or 20 seem to be too restrictive. So here’s my idea: 21 with 3 divisions of 7. A 4 team conference playoff featuring a wild card then becomes a possibility so here we have it:

Big 10 West: Neb, Iowa, Wisc, Minn, NW, ILL, Purdue
Big 10 Central: Indiana, Ohio St, Mich, Mich St, Pitt, Penn St, Rutgers
Big 10 East: ND, Maryland, UVA, UNC, Duke, GT, Miami

SEC West: Oklahoma, Texas, TAMU, Missouri, Arkansas, LSU, Ole Miss
SEC Central: Miss St, Alabama, Auburn, Tenn, Vandy, Kentucky, L’ville
SEC East: VT, NC St, Clemson, SC, Georgia, Florida, Florida St

Alternatively, you could swap Kansas in Pitt or Miami out to give the Big 10 an even greater basketball presence.

With 11 or 12 ACC schools involved, voting to disband the league and eliminate the GOR and exit fees becomes possible.

What do you think folks, could 21 be the way of the future?

(03-28-2022 05:18 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I posed this idea in the deep recesses of another thread but I thought I’d give it its own and bring it up for open discussion. So in my musings of what the 2030s might bring, 24 feels to fluffy but 18 or 20 seem to be too restrictive. So here’s my idea: 21 with 3 divisions of 7. A 4 team conference playoff featuring a wild card then becomes a possibility so here we have it:

Big 10 West: Neb, Iowa, Wisc, Minn, NW, ILL, Purdue
Big 10 Central: Indiana, Ohio St, Mich, Mich St, Pitt, Penn St, Rutgers
Big 10 East: ND, Maryland, UVA, UNC, Duke, GT, Miami

SEC West: Oklahoma, Texas, TAMU, Missouri, Arkansas, LSU, Ole Miss
SEC Central: Miss St, Alabama, Auburn, Tenn, Vandy, Kentucky, L’ville
SEC East: VT, NC St, Clemson, SC, Georgia, Florida, Florida St

Alternatively, you could swap Kansas in Pitt or Miami out to give the Big 10 an even greater basketball presence.

With 11 or 12 ACC schools involved, voting to disband the league and eliminate the GOR and exit fees becomes possible.

What do you think folks, could 21 be the way of the future?

(03-13-2022 08:15 AM)Porcine Wrote:  If the SEC goes with three divisions, let's go really big.
West-Texas, A&M, LSU, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Kansas, Missouri, Nebraska
Central-Ole Miss, MSU, Vandy, Tennessee, Bama, Auburn, Kentucky, Louisville
East-Florida, Florida State, Georgia, South Carolina, Clemson, North Carolina, Duke, Virginia
Figuring out who plays in the championship game, might get tricky. I guess a four team playoff with division winners and a wild card could work.
With four divisions go with 6 B12 schools, Old SEC West, Old SEC East, and 6 ACC schools.

There is some resemblance there, but the 21 I settled on aren’t a 1 for 1 match to your 24

(03-28-2022 08:28 PM)Porcine Wrote:  If the SEC goes with three divisions, let's go really big.
West-Texas, A&M, LSU, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Kansas, Missouri, Nebraska
Central-Ole Miss, MSU, Vandy, Tennessee, Bama, Auburn, Kentucky, Louisville
East-Florida, Florida State, Georgia, South Carolina, Clemson, North Carolina, Duke, Virginia
Figuring out who plays in the championship game, might get tricky. I guess a four team playoff with division winners and a wild card could work.

That SEC West looks like Arkansas and LSU are joining Big 12 1.0...under the SEC TV contract. I presume Arkansas would be fine with it. LSU...not so much. I like it, though.

I'm not going to believe the NCAA or college football will ever approve of college football conference semifinals. "Three divisions" might be useful to determine who plays who but not to set up conference semifinals.

Conferences will never have a "target" number or "magic" number. The number of teams a conference will want will depend on the number of teams they have and the number of teams they are willing to have. The SEC and Big 10 do not have to have the same # of teams, that seems to just be a CSNBBS fantasy. The SEC had 12 teams since the 90's, Nebraska didn't come to the Big 10 as member #12 until the 2010's. The Big 10 isn't going to take anyone just to "match" the SEC. Eventually the ACC and the North Carolina and Virginia schools will be attractive to the SEC and Big 10. But neither the SEC or the Big 10 will say "this is the ideal number, let's have this number". They may not settle for an odd number but the Big 10 isn't saying in the 2030's we want 20 teams unless they have in mind who the 6 are.

(03-28-2022 08:58 PM)johnintx Wrote:  

(03-28-2022 08:28 PM)Porcine Wrote:  If the SEC goes with three divisions, let's go really big.
West-Texas, A&M, LSU, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Kansas, Missouri, Nebraska
Central-Ole Miss, MSU, Vandy, Tennessee, Bama, Auburn, Kentucky, Louisville
East-Florida, Florida State, Georgia, South Carolina, Clemson, North Carolina, Duke, Virginia
Figuring out who plays in the championship game, might get tricky. I guess a four team playoff with division winners and a wild card could work.

That SEC West looks like Arkansas and LSU are joining Big 12 1.0...under the SEC TV contract. I presume Arkansas would be fine with it. LSU...not so much. I like it, though.

It started out as more of a joke, but didn't look too bad, so I posted it anyway. Offer LSU with having all their home games being night games.

(03-28-2022 05:18 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I posed this idea in the deep recesses of another thread but I thought I’d give it its own and bring it up for open discussion. So in my musings of what the 2030s might bring, 24 feels to fluffy but 18 or 20 seem to be too restrictive. So here’s my idea: 21 with 3 divisions of 7. A 4 team conference playoff featuring a wild card then becomes a possibility so here we have it:

Big 10 West: Neb, Iowa, Wisc, Minn, NW, ILL, Purdue
Big 10 Central: Indiana, Ohio St, Mich, Mich St, Pitt, Penn St, Rutgers
Big 10 East: ND, Maryland, UVA, UNC, Duke, GT, Miami

SEC West: Oklahoma, Texas, TAMU, Missouri, Arkansas, LSU, Ole Miss
SEC Central: Miss St, Alabama, Auburn, Tenn, Vandy, Kentucky, L’ville
SEC East: VT, NC St, Clemson, SC, Georgia, Florida, Florida St

Alternatively, you could swap Kansas in Pitt or Miami out to give the Big 10 an even greater basketball presence.

With 11 or 12 ACC schools involved, voting to disband the league and eliminate the GOR and exit fees becomes possible.

What do you think folks, could 21 be the way of the future?

Why on earth would the b10 want Pitt, when they already have Penn St.

(03-28-2022 09:03 PM)schmolik Wrote:  I'm not going to believe the NCAA or college football will ever approve of college football conference semifinals. "Three divisions" might be useful to determine who plays who but not to set up conference semifinals.

Conferences will never have a "target" number or "magic" number. The number of teams a conference will want will depend on the number of teams they have and the number of teams they are willing to have. The SEC and Big 10 do not have to have the same # of teams, that seems to just be a CSNBBS fantasy. The SEC had 12 teams since the 90's, Nebraska didn't come to the Big 10 as member #12 until the 2010's. The Big 10 isn't going to take anyone just to "match" the SEC. Eventually the ACC and the North Carolina and Virginia schools will be attractive to the SEC and Big 10. But neither the SEC or the Big 10 will say "this is the ideal number, let's have this number". They may not settle for an odd number but the Big 10 isn't saying in the 2030's we want 20 teams unless they have in mind who the 6 are.

1. The NCAA is already giving up on maintaining structural control and semis are certainly possible.

2. Many schools may give up on the NCAA and simply control their own product.

3. I absolutely agree that equal numbers are not necessary. In fact, I would posit that imbalances have been maintained to keep consolidation grinding until they have what they want. I strongly suggest that ESPN has a motive behind keeping the B1G roiled with inequities, as it has the ACC and PAC.

4. I certainly believe the SEC would be absolutely fine with 4 divisions of 6.

I'd suggest these:

Duke, Kentucky, North Carolina, N.C. State, Virginia, Virginia Tech
Clemson, Florida, Florida State, Georgia, Georgia Tech, South Carolina
Alabama, Auburn, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
Arkansas, Louisiana State, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M

Meanwhile, Boston College, Miami, Louisville, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Wake Forest join the NB12 to which ESPN will seek, and get, 100% of the rights. Lose Kansas and N.D. to the Big 10, and add Connecticut, South Florida, and perhaps Tulane.

New Big 12:

Boston College, Connecticut, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, West Virginia
Cincinnati, Iowa State, Kansas State, Louisville, Oklahoma State
Baylor, Brigham Young, Houston, Texas Christian, Texas Tech
Central Florida, Miami, South Florida, Tulane, Wake Forest

The B16

Iowa, Kansas, Nebraska, Wisconsin
Illinois, Michigan, Minnesota, Northwestern
Indiana, Michigan State, Ohio State, Purdue
Maryland, Notre Dame, Penn State, Rutgers

(03-28-2022 11:28 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-28-2022 09:03 PM)schmolik Wrote:  I'm not going to believe the NCAA or college football will ever approve of college football conference semifinals. "Three divisions" might be useful to determine who plays who but not to set up conference semifinals.

Conferences will never have a "target" number or "magic" number. The number of teams a conference will want will depend on the number of teams they have and the number of teams they are willing to have. The SEC and Big 10 do not have to have the same # of teams, that seems to just be a CSNBBS fantasy. The SEC had 12 teams since the 90's, Nebraska didn't come to the Big 10 as member #12 until the 2010's. The Big 10 isn't going to take anyone just to "match" the SEC. Eventually the ACC and the North Carolina and Virginia schools will be attractive to the SEC and Big 10. But neither the SEC or the Big 10 will say "this is the ideal number, let's have this number". They may not settle for an odd number but the Big 10 isn't saying in the 2030's we want 20 teams unless they have in mind who the 6 are.

1. The NCAA is already giving up on maintaining structural control and semis are certainly possible.

2. Many schools may give up on the NCAA and simply control their own product.

3. I absolutely agree that equal numbers are not necessary. In fact, I would posit that imbalances have been maintained to keep consolidation grinding until they have what they want. I strongly suggest that ESPN has a motive behind keeping the B1G roiled with inequities, as it has the ACC and PAC.

4. I certainly believe the SEC would be absolutely fine with 4 divisions of 6.

I'd suggest these:

Duke, Kentucky, North Carolina, N.C. State, Virginia, Virginia Tech
Clemson, Florida, Florida State, Georgia, Georgia Tech, South Carolina
Alabama, Auburn, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
Arkansas, Louisiana State, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M

Meanwhile, Boston College, Miami, Louisville, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Wake Forest join the NB12 to which ESPN will seek, and get, 100% of the rights. Lose Kansas and N.D. to the Big 10, and add Connecticut, South Florida, and perhaps Tulane.

New Big 12:

Boston College, Connecticut, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, West Virginia
Cincinnati, Iowa State, Kansas State, Louisville, Oklahoma State
Baylor, Brigham Young, Houston, Texas Christian, Texas Tech
Central Florida, Miami, South Florida, Tulane, Wake Forest

The B16

Iowa, Kansas, Nebraska, Wisconsin
Illinois, Michigan, Minnesota, Northwestern
Indiana, Michigan State, Ohio State, Purdue
Maryland, Notre Dame, Penn State, Rutgers

Fixed it for ya. No point in adding those schools.

By the time this might be feasible, it's just as likely that schools start leaving conferences and forming scheduling alliances in which they control 100% of their own media value. Eventually the Bamas and LSUs will realize that half the SEC is skimming from their profits.

(03-29-2022 12:39 AM)BatonRougeEscapee Wrote:  Eventually the Bamas and LSUs will realize that half the SEC is skimming from their profits.

Finally someone agrees with me on this!

(03-29-2022 04:21 AM)schmolik Wrote:  

(03-29-2022 12:39 AM)BatonRougeEscapee Wrote:  Eventually the Bamas and LSUs will realize that half the SEC is skimming from their profits.

Finally someone agrees with me on this!

But that half makes the gaudy W-L records of the Bamas and LSUs possible, which fills their huge stadiums and stokes donations every year. It's a symbiotic relationship.

(03-29-2022 06:11 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(03-29-2022 04:21 AM)schmolik Wrote:  

(03-29-2022 12:39 AM)BatonRougeEscapee Wrote:  Eventually the Bamas and LSUs will realize that half the SEC is skimming from their profits.

Finally someone agrees with me on this!

But that half makes the gaudy W-L records of the Bamas and LSUs possible, which fills their huge stadiums and stokes donations every year. It's a symbiotic relationship.

I'd say that might be true if playing in the West Division of the SEC wasn't stiffer competition most years than the CFP opponents.

(03-28-2022 10:35 PM)goodknightfl Wrote:  

(03-28-2022 05:18 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I posed this idea in the deep recesses of another thread but I thought I’d give it its own and bring it up for open discussion. So in my musings of what the 2030s might bring, 24 feels to fluffy but 18 or 20 seem to be too restrictive. So here’s my idea: 21 with 3 divisions of 7. A 4 team conference playoff featuring a wild card then becomes a possibility so here we have it:

Big 10 West: Neb, Iowa, Wisc, Minn, NW, ILL, Purdue
Big 10 Central: Indiana, Ohio St, Mich, Mich St, Pitt, Penn St, Rutgers
Big 10 East: ND, Maryland, UVA, UNC, Duke, GT, Miami

SEC West: Oklahoma, Texas, TAMU, Missouri, Arkansas, LSU, Ole Miss
SEC Central: Miss St, Alabama, Auburn, Tenn, Vandy, Kentucky, L’ville
SEC East: VT, NC St, Clemson, SC, Georgia, Florida, Florida St

Alternatively, you could swap Kansas in Pitt or Miami out to give the Big 10 an even greater basketball presence.

With 11 or 12 ACC schools involved, voting to disband the league and eliminate the GOR and exit fees becomes possible.

What do you think folks, could 21 be the way of the future?

Why on earth would the b10 want Pitt, when they already have Penn St.

Because they are a better fit for the B1G than BC, Syracuse or Wake Forest? And though you could take Kansas instead of Pitt, that makes dissolving the ACC more difficult.

I don't dislike the 21 team concept, but I don't see a realistic path to make it happen without cooperation (collusion) between the B1G, SEC and ESPN.

When I first saw the title, I assumed this would be a merger of the best 21 schools from the Big Ten and SEC

East-7
MD, PSU, OhSt, Mich, Indy, ILL, Ky

West-7
Wisc, Iowa, Minn, Neb, Tex, Ok, Mizzou

South-7
FL, Ga, Bama, Auburn, LSU, A&M, Tenn

Out-9
NW, MichSt, Pur, Rut, Ark, Ole Miss, MissSt, SCar, Vandy

You guys need to go ahead and include a 16 team PAC conference, and make the split from the NCAA(at least for football) real.

When everyone has been talking about these schools splitting from the NCAA, I don’t believe that will be all sports, it will just be football. Much like the DIA(FCS) and DIAA(FBS) split from back when. The NCAA has lost all teeth and if those schools desire to break football away, the NCAA will accept that and move along.

(03-29-2022 08:31 AM)Usajags Wrote:  You guys need to go ahead and include a 16 team PAC conference, and make the split from the NCAA(at least for football) real.

When everyone has been talking about these schools splitting from the NCAA, I don’t believe that will be all sports, it will just be football. Much like the DIA(FCS) and DIAA(FBS) split from back when. The NCAA has lost all teeth and if those schools desire to break football away, the NCAA will accept that and move along.

The split will be to fully monetize basketball. Basketball funds the NCAA. in 2021 the tourney made 1.1 Billion. It paid 2.5 million per share for 131 shares. That 327.5 million, or less than 2/3rds of the total revenue. It takes 6 years to pay out tourney shares so the NCAA holds 5 years worth of tourney revenue at any one time.

With football schools raking in the cash a hoops first school which generates revenue could under another governance structure make about 2.25 x what they make now and still pay for governance. This will be the motivation for a breakaway.