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Big East & AAC
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ballantyneapp Online
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Post: #201
RE: Big East & AAC
(04-20-2022 06:49 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(04-19-2022 10:09 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(04-19-2022 05:49 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(04-19-2022 01:33 PM)Milwaukee Wrote:  
(04-19-2022 01:15 PM)e-parade Wrote:  He may have done the thing where "the year 2000 was only 12 years ago!" that people do before realizing "oh **** I lost a decade"

You guys are right - I made a mistake. Have corrected the error. I was trying to do too much too fast, and didn't take the time to double-check. There wasn't a top 25 Big East team in 2012 after all.

However, there were two Big East top 25 teams in 2011, 3 in 2009, two in 2008, three in 2007, and two in 2005.

The point still stands, however, that the Big East was considered a legitimate football power (BCS) conference most years, since 2000.

The sentence in question has been rewritten as follows:

(04-18-2022 02:47 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  I'd say the Big East today has more status and respect than it did 12 years ago

That's not an easy case to prove considering...

EXHIBIT A:

Two Big East football teams were ranked in the Final AP Top 25 in 2011. There is no Big East football conference in 2022.

FWIW, as I explained above, I don't think the point stands. Despite the Big East's objective success on the field between 2005- 2012, IMO the Big East football of that time around 2010 was disrespected far more than respected. It was routinely derided in the media and fans as not being worthy of Power status, was looked down upon.

BE FB was a running joke in the power club analysis on sports talk shows. It was like a lazy co-worker that really didn't belong.

Making fun of AAC 2.0 is like making fun of those lined up outside of a thrift store or meal kitchen. Its too pathetic to even slight.

That's a good point, and it reminded me of something else. I've been talking about the "respect and status" that the AAC and Big East (old and new) had and have, but I have neglected one thing:

While I have said that the AAC has not, despite the strident pushing of the "P6" campaign, been accorded any respect as a "P" league, it has been given *plenty* of respect as a "G" league.

In fact, I think one can make a good case that the one area that the "P6 campaign" has been very effective is in creating the impression in the minds of fans and writers that the the AAC is the clear-cut, slam-dunk dominant G5 league, when in fact its dominance of the G5 hasn't been nearly as evident on the field. The AAC has been the best G5 football conference during the CFP era, but I think that thanks to Aresco's campaign, fans and media generally seem to think that it is the Unquestioned Master of the G5, and the only issue is how it compares to the P5.

In reality, the AAC hasn't been nearly that dominant. It has been the best G5 conference at least 4 of the 8 years of the CFP, but it has also been beaten out by the MW in 3 of those years, including 2 of the last 4, and probably once by the SBC as well, in 2020.

So IMO, the AAC has more status and prestige as a G-league than it merits, given its performance. This has had an impact, it means that the top AAC team is putatively regarded as the "front runner" for the G5 Access spot, even if there isn't a strong basis for that, e.g., Cincy vs Coastal in 2020.

Good points. FWIW i think top to bottom AAC has been the best G5 conference overall, even if its 2nd (or 3rd) a year here and there in the past.

However, i think its time to quietly drop the P6 campaign and start another marketing effort. Its going to really backfire playing in a football stadium thats smaller than a lot of FCS places and 200+ NET basketball teams.

If the CUSA 6 can improve to where the AAC hopes it can always start again.
04-20-2022 09:22 AM
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Milwaukee Offline
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Post: #202
RE: Big East & AAC
(04-20-2022 09:22 AM)ballantyneapp Wrote:  Its going to really backfire playing in a football stadium thats smaller than a lot of FCS places and 200+ NET basketball teams.

"Really backfire" may be a slight exaggeration. There's only one stadium with seating for less than 30,000, and most AAC teams will only play in that stadium once every other season, max.

..........Capacity:

UTSA:...65,000
UAB:....47,100
Rice:....47,000
UNT:.....30,850
FAU:.....30,000
UNCC:..15,314

It's time for a little bit of stoicism* on the part of AAC fans. There have been dozens of "the sky is falling" posts lately about the future of the conference, but there's not going to be any calamity.

*
https://www.orionphilosophy.com/stoic-bl...definition

At worst, the AAC 2.0 could get off to a rough start in its first season or two, but even if it does, there will inevitably be some success stories, and some programs that take advantage of the new situation.

The reputation of the conference could take a hit, at first, but it will smooth out because there will still be a sufficient number of quality programs remaining.

Every fair-minded CFB fan outside the conference will give the AAC 2.0 a mulligan for the first year or two. Sure, there will be some jerks who'll taunt the conference for every minute failing, but anyone who pays attention to those kinds of jerks has got a life lesson to learn and some growing up to do, anyway.

_____________________________________________________

“A Stoic is someone who transforms fear into prudence, pain into transformation, mistakes into initiation, and desire into undertaking.”
- Nassim Taleb
(This post was last modified: 04-20-2022 11:13 AM by Milwaukee.)
04-20-2022 11:05 AM
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Minutemen429 Offline
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Post: #203
RE: Big East & AAC
(04-19-2022 02:33 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(04-19-2022 02:01 PM)esayem Wrote:  
(04-19-2022 01:54 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(04-19-2022 12:47 PM)esayem Wrote:  
(04-19-2022 12:12 PM)orangefan Wrote:  If the Big East had any interest in UMass, they would have gotten a call a long time ago. I don't see it happening any time soon. UMass has an alumni base in Boston, but it's hardly a Boston team. In my view, UMass would have to become one of the dominant members of the A10 for a few years, and demonstrate they were more than a one coach wonder as they were with Calipari, for the Big East to consider the possibility.

I would also offer that UConn already has a partner in the conference in Providence. There is no need to add another member for this reason.

I was thinking more or less in the potential size of the fanbase. The Big East could benefit from another large alumni base in the northeast. For instance, I remember seeing a guy in a UMass shirt beyond the announcers at the Big East tournament, or maybe it was Brooklyn.

Plus, PC, Boston College, and UConn were all original members of the Big East.

Its a solid idea because of how big UMass is.

The problem though is their BB program isn't very good by A10 standards.

BE is wary about adding another bottom feeder to the conference.

I think we'll see UMass and URI move to the top tier of the conference with their new coaching hires.

Tier 1: Davidson, VCU, Dayton, UMass, URI

Tier 2: UR, St. Bona, SLU, Loyola

Tier 3: Fordham, St. Joe's, LaSalle, Duquesne, GW, GMU

UMass basketball is on year 30 of a 5 year rebuilding plan.

Sure but it's not for lack of effort and money.

We really really wanted Kellogg to be Calipairi 2, Springfield guy UMass Alum. He just didn't coach well. UMass is a train wreck of bad hires.

I think Frank Martin is the opposite of what UMass has been doing for most of my life. I think an old coach that has experience is what we need.
04-20-2022 11:16 AM
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bill dazzle Online
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Post: #204
RE: Big East & AAC
(04-20-2022 11:05 AM)Milwaukee Wrote:  
(04-20-2022 09:22 AM)ballantyneapp Wrote:  Its going to really backfire playing in a football stadium thats smaller than a lot of FCS places and 200+ NET basketball teams.

"Really backfire" may be a slight exaggeration. There's only one stadium with seating for less than 30,000, and most AAC teams will only play in that stadium once every other season, max.

..........Capacity:

UTSA:...65,000
UAB:....47,100
Rice:....47,000
UNT:.....30,850
FAU:.....30,000
UNCC:..15,314

It's time for a little bit of stoicism* on the part of AAC fans. There have been dozens of "the sky is falling" posts lately about the future of the conference, but there's not going to be any calamity.

*
https://www.orionphilosophy.com/stoic-bl...definition

At worst, the AAC 2.0 could get off to a rough start in its first season or two, but even if it does, there will inevitably be some success stories, and some programs that take advantage of the new situation.

The reputation of the conference could take a hit, at first, but it will smooth out because there will still be a sufficient number of quality programs remaining.

Every fair-minded CFB fan outside the conference will give the AAC 2.0 a mulligan for the first year or two. Sure, there will be some jerks who'll taunt the conference for every minute failing, but anyone who pays attention to those kinds of jerks has got a life lesson to learn and some growing up to do, anyway.

_____________________________________________________

“A Stoic is someone who transforms fear into prudence, pain into transformation, mistakes into initiation, and desire into undertaking.”
- Nassim Taleb

Lots of good points made, Milwaukee.

I'm willing to be patient with the future AAC.
04-20-2022 01:06 PM
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bill dazzle Online
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Post: #205
RE: Big East & AAC
(04-20-2022 11:16 AM)Minutemen429 Wrote:  
(04-19-2022 02:33 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(04-19-2022 02:01 PM)esayem Wrote:  
(04-19-2022 01:54 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(04-19-2022 12:47 PM)esayem Wrote:  I was thinking more or less in the potential size of the fanbase. The Big East could benefit from another large alumni base in the northeast. For instance, I remember seeing a guy in a UMass shirt beyond the announcers at the Big East tournament, or maybe it was Brooklyn.

Plus, PC, Boston College, and UConn were all original members of the Big East.

Its a solid idea because of how big UMass is.

The problem though is their BB program isn't very good by A10 standards.

BE is wary about adding another bottom feeder to the conference.

I think we'll see UMass and URI move to the top tier of the conference with their new coaching hires.

Tier 1: Davidson, VCU, Dayton, UMass, URI

Tier 2: UR, St. Bona, SLU, Loyola

Tier 3: Fordham, St. Joe's, LaSalle, Duquesne, GW, GMU

UMass basketball is on year 30 of a 5 year rebuilding plan.

Sure but it's not for lack of effort and money.

We really really wanted Kellogg to be Calipairi 2, Springfield guy UMass Alum. He just didn't coach well. UMass is a train wreck of bad hires.

I think Frank Martin is the opposite of what UMass has been doing for most of my life. I think an old coach that has experience is what we need.

A quality hire.
04-20-2022 01:07 PM
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Hoya Hoya Hoya Offline
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Post: #206
RE: Big East & AAC
UMass does absolutely nothing for the Big East. It’s Gonzaga or bust and I’m even hesitant on them. They could be Butler 2.0 when Mark Few retires. The idea of bringing a school in because of one coach never sits well with me.
04-20-2022 01:31 PM
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bill dazzle Online
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Post: #207
RE: Big East & AAC
(04-20-2022 01:31 PM)Hoya Hoya Hoya Wrote:  UMass does absolutely nothing for the Big East. It’s Gonzaga or bust and I’m even hesitant on them. They could be Butler 2.0 when Mark Few retires. The idea of bringing a school in because of one coach never sits well with me.

"Absolutely nothing" seems harsh. I'm not saying the Big East should add UMass. But if the league were looking to expand, and particularly to 14 schools with three additions, UMass would be deserving of some consideration.
04-20-2022 08:49 PM
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TroyTBoy Offline
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Post: #208
RE: Big East & AAC
Well....


UConn got 2 years of Jay Wright.

[Image: 618423187-Tombstone_Well_bye_short_versi...mbnail.jpg]
04-20-2022 10:34 PM
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Post: #209
RE: Big East & AAC
(04-19-2022 10:09 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  Making fun of AAC 2.0 is like making fun of those lined up outside of a thrift store or meal kitchen. Its too pathetic to even slight.


.

"THE SKY IS FALLING!" 05-deadhorse



04-21-2022 12:40 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #210
RE: Big East & AAC
(04-20-2022 10:34 PM)TroyTBoy Wrote:  Well....


UConn got 2 years of Jay Wright.

Sometimes changes can create opportunities.

For example, look at Wright's record at Villanova during his first 11 or so years, in the "old" Big East, and compare it to the last 10 in the "new" Big East. Big difference after that realignment took place.
04-22-2022 07:50 AM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #211
RE: Big East & AAC
(04-22-2022 07:50 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(04-20-2022 10:34 PM)TroyTBoy Wrote:  Well....


UConn got 2 years of Jay Wright.

Sometimes changes can create opportunities.

For example, look at Wright's record at Villanova during his first 11 or so years, in the "old" Big East, and compare it to the last 10 in the "new" Big East. Big difference after that realignment took place.

Hard to converse with obvious haters. Providence could have knocked off eventual champ Kansas, potentially getting two Big East squads in the Final 4.
04-22-2022 09:34 AM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #212
RE: Big East & AAC
(04-20-2022 08:49 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  
(04-20-2022 01:31 PM)Hoya Hoya Hoya Wrote:  UMass does absolutely nothing for the Big East. It’s Gonzaga or bust and I’m even hesitant on them. They could be Butler 2.0 when Mark Few retires. The idea of bringing a school in because of one coach never sits well with me.

"Absolutely nothing" seems harsh. I'm not saying the Big East should add UMass. But if the league were looking to expand, and particularly to 14 schools with three additions, UMass would be deserving of some consideration.

Hypothetical: UMass and Gonzaga are in the Big East tourney at MSG. Which school is bringing more fans? LOL not even close.

Gonzaga is the definition of a fish out of water in the Big East. I do not care that it's a Catholic school. They are in Spokane Washington, not Washington, DC. Plus, they have small enrollment that's not traveling across the country.
04-22-2022 09:38 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #213
RE: Big East & AAC
(04-22-2022 09:38 AM)esayem Wrote:  
(04-20-2022 08:49 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  
(04-20-2022 01:31 PM)Hoya Hoya Hoya Wrote:  UMass does absolutely nothing for the Big East. It’s Gonzaga or bust and I’m even hesitant on them. They could be Butler 2.0 when Mark Few retires. The idea of bringing a school in because of one coach never sits well with me.

"Absolutely nothing" seems harsh. I'm not saying the Big East should add UMass. But if the league were looking to expand, and particularly to 14 schools with three additions, UMass would be deserving of some consideration.

Hypothetical: UMass and Gonzaga are in the Big East tourney at MSG. Which school is bringing more fans? LOL not even close.

Gonzaga is the definition of a fish out of water in the Big East. I do not care that it's a Catholic school. They are in Spokane Washington, not Washington, DC. Plus, they have small enrollment that's not traveling across the country.

Yes, IMO it would be a massive mistake for the Big East to go after Gonzaga.

Just not a part of our geography or culture. Too distant.

Too bad, because if they were located 1500 miles or so east, then sure, welcome aboard, LOL.
04-22-2022 11:52 AM
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Post: #214
RE: Big East & AAC
(04-22-2022 11:52 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(04-22-2022 09:38 AM)esayem Wrote:  
(04-20-2022 08:49 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  
(04-20-2022 01:31 PM)Hoya Hoya Hoya Wrote:  UMass does absolutely nothing for the Big East. It’s Gonzaga or bust and I’m even hesitant on them. They could be Butler 2.0 when Mark Few retires. The idea of bringing a school in because of one coach never sits well with me.

"Absolutely nothing" seems harsh. I'm not saying the Big East should add UMass. But if the league were looking to expand, and particularly to 14 schools with three additions, UMass would be deserving of some consideration.

Hypothetical: UMass and Gonzaga are in the Big East tourney at MSG. Which school is bringing more fans? LOL not even close.

Gonzaga is the definition of a fish out of water in the Big East. I do not care that it's a Catholic school. They are in Spokane Washington, not Washington, DC. Plus, they have small enrollment that's not traveling across the country.

Yes, IMO it would be a massive mistake for the Big East to go after Gonzaga.

Just not a part of our geography or culture. Too distant.

Too bad, because if they were located 1500 miles or so east, then sure, welcome aboard, LOL.


It's too bad Villanova just couldn't take Mark Few...

Good luck with (checks notes) Neptune.

07-coffee3
04-22-2022 11:55 AM
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bill dazzle Online
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Post: #215
RE: Big East & AAC
(04-22-2022 09:38 AM)esayem Wrote:  
(04-20-2022 08:49 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  
(04-20-2022 01:31 PM)Hoya Hoya Hoya Wrote:  UMass does absolutely nothing for the Big East. It’s Gonzaga or bust and I’m even hesitant on them. They could be Butler 2.0 when Mark Few retires. The idea of bringing a school in because of one coach never sits well with me.

"Absolutely nothing" seems harsh. I'm not saying the Big East should add UMass. But if the league were looking to expand, and particularly to 14 schools with three additions, UMass would be deserving of some consideration.

Hypothetical: UMass and Gonzaga are in the Big East tourney at MSG. Which school is bringing more fans? LOL not even close.

Gonzaga is the definition of a fish out of water in the Big East. I do not care that it's a Catholic school. They are in Spokane Washington, not Washington, DC. Plus, they have small enrollment that's not traveling across the country.


Agree on all points.
04-22-2022 12:04 PM
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Post: #216
RE: Big East & AAC
(04-22-2022 11:55 AM)TroyTBoy Wrote:  
(04-22-2022 11:52 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(04-22-2022 09:38 AM)esayem Wrote:  
(04-20-2022 08:49 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  
(04-20-2022 01:31 PM)Hoya Hoya Hoya Wrote:  UMass does absolutely nothing for the Big East. It’s Gonzaga or bust and I’m even hesitant on them. They could be Butler 2.0 when Mark Few retires. The idea of bringing a school in because of one coach never sits well with me.

"Absolutely nothing" seems harsh. I'm not saying the Big East should add UMass. But if the league were looking to expand, and particularly to 14 schools with three additions, UMass would be deserving of some consideration.

Hypothetical: UMass and Gonzaga are in the Big East tourney at MSG. Which school is bringing more fans? LOL not even close.

Gonzaga is the definition of a fish out of water in the Big East. I do not care that it's a Catholic school. They are in Spokane Washington, not Washington, DC. Plus, they have small enrollment that's not traveling across the country.

Yes, IMO it would be a massive mistake for the Big East to go after Gonzaga.

Just not a part of our geography or culture. Too distant.

Too bad, because if they were located 1500 miles or so east, then sure, welcome aboard, LOL.


It's too bad Villanova just couldn't take Mark Few...

Good luck with (checks notes) Neptune.

07-coffee3

Hopefully he doesn't make a Final 4 run because we know what your totally lame and unoriginal response will be TroyNoTeam.

03-shhhh03-shhhh03-shhhh03-shhhh03-shhhh
04-22-2022 12:30 PM
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Post: #217
RE: Big East & AAC
(04-22-2022 11:55 AM)TroyTBoy Wrote:  
(04-22-2022 11:52 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(04-22-2022 09:38 AM)esayem Wrote:  
(04-20-2022 08:49 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  
(04-20-2022 01:31 PM)Hoya Hoya Hoya Wrote:  UMass does absolutely nothing for the Big East. It’s Gonzaga or bust and I’m even hesitant on them. They could be Butler 2.0 when Mark Few retires. The idea of bringing a school in because of one coach never sits well with me.

"Absolutely nothing" seems harsh. I'm not saying the Big East should add UMass. But if the league were looking to expand, and particularly to 14 schools with three additions, UMass would be deserving of some consideration.

Hypothetical: UMass and Gonzaga are in the Big East tourney at MSG. Which school is bringing more fans? LOL not even close.

Gonzaga is the definition of a fish out of water in the Big East. I do not care that it's a Catholic school. They are in Spokane Washington, not Washington, DC. Plus, they have small enrollment that's not traveling across the country.

Yes, IMO it would be a massive mistake for the Big East to go after Gonzaga.

Just not a part of our geography or culture. Too distant.

Too bad, because if they were located 1500 miles or so east, then sure, welcome aboard, LOL.


It's too bad Villanova just couldn't take Mark Few...

Good luck with (checks notes) Neptune.

07-coffee3

We can't all be as successful as Boston College, Troy.
04-22-2022 07:01 PM
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Post: #218
RE: Big East & AAC
(04-22-2022 09:38 AM)esayem Wrote:  
(04-20-2022 08:49 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  
(04-20-2022 01:31 PM)Hoya Hoya Hoya Wrote:  UMass does absolutely nothing for the Big East. It’s Gonzaga or bust and I’m even hesitant on them. They could be Butler 2.0 when Mark Few retires. The idea of bringing a school in because of one coach never sits well with me.

"Absolutely nothing" seems harsh. I'm not saying the Big East should add UMass. But if the league were looking to expand, and particularly to 14 schools with three additions, UMass would be deserving of some consideration.

Hypothetical: UMass and Gonzaga are in the Big East tourney at MSG. Which school is bringing more fans? LOL not even close
Seton Hall?
04-22-2022 07:04 PM
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Post: #219
RE: Big East & AAC
(04-22-2022 07:04 PM)jimrtex Wrote:  
(04-22-2022 09:38 AM)esayem Wrote:  
(04-20-2022 08:49 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  
(04-20-2022 01:31 PM)Hoya Hoya Hoya Wrote:  UMass does absolutely nothing for the Big East. It’s Gonzaga or bust and I’m even hesitant on them. They could be Butler 2.0 when Mark Few retires. The idea of bringing a school in because of one coach never sits well with me.

"Absolutely nothing" seems harsh. I'm not saying the Big East should add UMass. But if the league were looking to expand, and particularly to 14 schools with three additions, UMass would be deserving of some consideration.

Hypothetical: UMass and Gonzaga are in the Big East tourney at MSG. Which school is bringing more fans? LOL not even close
Seton Hall?

You must be counting the half dozen St Peter’s players that will be in attendance watching next season?
04-22-2022 10:48 PM
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