With all respect to St. Peter's, this is truly a "blue blood" Final Four.

The last time all four teams in the Final Four have previously won a national championship was 2015: Kentucky, Duke, Michigan State, and Wisconsin (they won it in 1941, I had to look it up!)

The last time all four teams in the Final Four have previously won a national championship in the 64 team era (1985-present) was 2009 (North Carolina, Michigan State, Connecticut, and Villanova). At the time, three of the four teams had won a national championship in the 2000's.

In the 64 team era, Duke has won 5 national championships (1991, 1992, 2001, 2010, and 2015), North Carolina 4 (1993, 2005, 2009, 2017), Villanova 3 (1985, 2016, 2018), and Kansas 2 (1988, 2008) for a total of 13 out of the 36 national championships in that span (1/3).

Final Fours 1985-present? Duke (13), North Carolina (12), Kansas (10), Villanova (5).

I'm not saying these are the cream of the crop of men's basketball in the 64 team era (Kentucky and Michigan State among others are noticeable absentees) but there's no Baylor, no Auburn, no Texas Tech, no Oregon (some of the more recent Final Four one hit wonders). There's no flash in the plan programs, these are programs that are at the top of the game in men's basketball.

We have Duke and North Carolina playing. Imagine if Ohio State and Michigan or Alabama and Auburn played in a College Football Playoff semifinal. Villanova-Kansas is the undercard?

If you're not into this Final Four, you don't love basketball.

Equating biggest brands with “best” is really vapid.

(03-27-2022 06:49 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Equating biggest brands with “best” is really vapid.

But surely you would agree these are four of the best men's college hoops programs of all time.

1993 was the best Final Four as three #1s (UNC, Kentucky, Michigan) and a #2 (Kansas)

Let me try to football this.

Villanova = Clemson
- 1 title in the 1980s, 2 in the 2010s, East Coast school
Duke = Alabama
- Multiple titles with HOF coach (in consideration of GOAT for his respective sport)
North Carolina = LSU
- Multiple titles since 2000, rival of school above (although DUKE/UNC is better than BAMA/LSU)
Kansas = Texas
- I’m never surprised when they succeed but titles are few and far between; always left feeling disappointed

(03-27-2022 06:52 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(03-27-2022 06:49 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Equating biggest brands with “best” is really vapid.

But surely you would agree these are four of the best men's college hoops programs of all time.

The 2008 Final Four with North Carolina, Kansas, UCLA, and Memphis was pretty good. All four were No.1 seeds. A terrific championship game as well, with Mario Chalmers hitting a three pointer with two seconds left to tie it in regulation for Kansas. Unfortunately for Memphis, Kansas won it in OT.

Kansas’s analog to me would be USC or Michigan.

(03-27-2022 07:34 PM)Renandpat Wrote:  1993 was the best Final Four as three #1s (UNC, Kentucky, Michigan) and a #2 (Kansas)

No, the best was 2008 -- Kansas, UNC, Memphis, UCLA. All were No. 1 seeds, only time in modern-day history (I believe).

1974 was the best for me:

1. NC State 30-1
2. UCLA 26-4
3. Marquette 26-5
6. Kansas 23-7

(03-27-2022 07:50 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(03-27-2022 06:52 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(03-27-2022 06:49 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Equating biggest brands with “best” is really vapid.

But surely you would agree these are four of the best men's college hoops programs of all time.

The 2008 Final Four with North Carolina, Kansas, UCLA, and Memphis was pretty good. All for were No.1 seeds. A terrific championship game as well, with Mario Chalmers hitting a three pointer with two seconds left to tie it in regulation for Kansas. Unfortunately for Memphis, Kansas won it in OT.

14 years ago and the Chalmers shot. Painful for this Tiger fan.

(03-27-2022 08:38 PM)Statefan Wrote:  1974 was the best for me:

1. NC State 30-1
2. UCLA 26-4
3. Marquette 26-5
6. Kansas 23-7

I was there.

(03-27-2022 08:10 PM)kurtrundell Wrote:  

(03-27-2022 07:34 PM)Renandpat Wrote:  1993 was the best Final Four as three #1s (UNC, Kentucky, Michigan) and a #2 (Kansas)

No, the best was 2008 -- Kansas, UNC, Memphis, UCLA. All were No. 1 seeds, only time in modern-day history (I believe).

UNC was blown out. The only best part of that Final Four was it was Billy Packer's last for CBS.

(03-27-2022 08:49 PM)Renandpat Wrote:  

(03-27-2022 08:10 PM)kurtrundell Wrote:  

(03-27-2022 07:34 PM)Renandpat Wrote:  1993 was the best Final Four as three #1s (UNC, Kentucky, Michigan) and a #2 (Kansas)

No, the best was 2008 -- Kansas, UNC, Memphis, UCLA. All were No. 1 seeds, only time in modern-day history (I believe).

UNC was blown out. The only best part of that Final Four was it was Billy Packer's last for CBS.

Yeah that was brutal. Came back to win it all the next season.

(03-27-2022 08:10 PM)kurtrundell Wrote:  

(03-27-2022 07:34 PM)Renandpat Wrote:  1993 was the best Final Four as three #1s (UNC, Kentucky, Michigan) and a #2 (Kansas)

No, the best was 2008 -- Kansas, UNC, Memphis, UCLA. All were No. 1 seeds, only time in modern-day history (I believe).

Best in terms of the best that season. But Memphis is hardly ever a Final Four team, three in their history, two in the 64 team era. They're a little better than a Baylor, a one hit wonder.

The tv executives are probably a bunch of giddy school girls right now with all these blue bloods in the final four

(03-27-2022 06:37 PM)schmolik Wrote:  With all respect to St. Peter's, this is truly a "blue blood" Final Four.

The last time all four teams in the Final Four have previously won a national championship was 2015: Kentucky, Duke, Michigan State, and Wisconsin (they won it in 1941, I had to look it up!)

The last time all four teams in the Final Four have previously won a national championship in the 64 team era (1985-present) was 2009 (North Carolina, Michigan State, Connecticut, and Villanova). At the time, three of the four teams had won a national championship in the 2000's.

In the 64 team era, Duke has won 5 national championships (1991, 1992, 2001, 2010, and 2015), North Carolina 4 (1993, 2005, 2009, 2017), Villanova 3 (1985, 2016, 2018), and Kansas 1 (2008) for a total of 12 out of the 36 national championships in that span (1/3).

Final Fours 1985-present? Duke (13), North Carolina (12), Kansas (10), Villanova (5).

I'm not saying these are the cream of the crop of men's basketball in the 64 team era (Kentucky and Michigan State among others are noticeable absentees) but there's no Baylor, no Auburn, no Texas Tech, no Oregon (some of the more recent Final Four one hit wonders). There's no flash in the plan programs, these are programs that are at the top of the game in men's basketball.

We have Duke and North Carolina playing. Imagine if Ohio State and Michigan or Alabama and Auburn played in a College Football Playoff semifinal. Villanova-Kansas is the undercard?

If you're not into this Final Four, you don't love basketball.

This is a crucial point... I hear people "say" that they want the CFP to more resemble the NCAAT, to allow for "Cinderella" stories. But I don't think "people" really want that at all. We like the "idea" of the "Cinderella" story, but only to a point.

The typological "Cinderella Story" people point to is the Jim Valvano, NC State run to win the NCAAT in 1983...but is North Carolina State really a "Cinderella"? They were an "upset" pick for sure, but they weren't really all than much of a "Cinderella" like Saint Peters is, or UMBC, or Loyola Chicago, etc...

When it really comes down to it, we "like" so-called "Cinderella Stories" up to the Sweet Sixteen. If a "Cinderella" pushes it into the Elite Eight, we get nervous. But really...in football as well as basketball...we don't really want a "Cinderella" in our "Final Fours": we WANT the "blue-blood," elite programs. That's why when a UNLV (in basketball) or a Cincinnati (in football) crashes the party we really want them to lose.

Oh, sure, we'll ***** and moan about "Another SEC Title game rematch," or "Another Duke-North Carolina game" but that's what we really want. It's predictable, it's reassuring, and we think that we're going to get our "money's worth" because we "know" that UNC, Kansas, Villanova, and Duke "belong" there. Just like we "know" that Alabama, Georgia, Clemson, and Ohio State (and Notre Dame and USC), "belong" in the CFP. It is as certain as the sun rising in the East that those "names" will be at the top of the polls when the season starts next year.

And if unexpected...and unwelcome...names start appearing there too frequently (like the "BCS Busters") then we'll change the rules to stop it from happening. Because we do like "Cinderellas"...to a point. But only to a point.

75 had UCLA, Kentucky, Louisville and Syracuse. Final regular season poll had UCLA #2, Louisville #3, Kentucky #5 and Syracuse #20. UK knocked off unbeaten #1 Indiana 92-90 in the regional finals. It was Wooden's last year and they barely won the semi vs. Louisville 75-74 before beating UK 92-85 in the final after he announced his retirement.

If you are looking at talent, 1982 and 1984 were amazing.
1982 had North Carolina (Jordan, Worthy, Perkins-3 drafted but all top 4), Georgetown (Ewing, Floyd, Jones of 4 drafted), Houston (Olajuwon, Drexler, Micheaux, Williams of 5 drafted) and Louisville (McCray, Gordon, Smith of 7(!) drafted)
1984 had Georgetown (5 drafted), Houston (4 drafted), Kentucky (Turpin, Walker, Bowie-all top 6 of 4 drafted) and Virginia (Polynice 1st round, 4 total drafted).

(03-27-2022 10:04 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  

(03-27-2022 06:37 PM)schmolik Wrote:  With all respect to St. Peter's, this is truly a "blue blood" Final Four.

The last time all four teams in the Final Four have previously won a national championship was 2015: Kentucky, Duke, Michigan State, and Wisconsin (they won it in 1941, I had to look it up!)

The last time all four teams in the Final Four have previously won a national championship in the 64 team era (1985-present) was 2009 (North Carolina, Michigan State, Connecticut, and Villanova). At the time, three of the four teams had won a national championship in the 2000's.

In the 64 team era, Duke has won 5 national championships (1991, 1992, 2001, 2010, and 2015), North Carolina 4 (1993, 2005, 2009, 2017), Villanova 3 (1985, 2016, 2018), and Kansas 1 (2008) for a total of 12 out of the 36 national championships in that span (1/3).

Final Fours 1985-present? Duke (13), North Carolina (12), Kansas (10), Villanova (5).

I'm not saying these are the cream of the crop of men's basketball in the 64 team era (Kentucky and Michigan State among others are noticeable absentees) but there's no Baylor, no Auburn, no Texas Tech, no Oregon (some of the more recent Final Four one hit wonders). There's no flash in the plan programs, these are programs that are at the top of the game in men's basketball.

We have Duke and North Carolina playing. Imagine if Ohio State and Michigan or Alabama and Auburn played in a College Football Playoff semifinal. Villanova-Kansas is the undercard?

If you're not into this Final Four, you don't love basketball.

This is a crucial point... I hear people "say" that they want the CFP to more resemble the NCAAT, to allow for "Cinderella" stories. But I don't think "people" really want that at all. We like the "idea" of the "Cinderella" story, but only to a point.

The typological "Cinderella Story" people point to is the Jim Valvano, NC State run to win the NCAAT in 1983...but is North Carolina State really a "Cinderella"? They were an "upset" pick for sure, but they weren't really all than much of a "Cinderella" like Saint Peters is, or UMBC, or Loyola Chicago, etc...

When it really comes down to it, we "like" so-called "Cinderella Stories" up to the Sweet Sixteen. If a "Cinderella" pushes it into the Elite Eight, we get nervous. But really...in football as well as basketball...we don't really want a "Cinderella" in our "Final Fours": we WANT the "blue-blood," elite programs. That's why when a UNLV (in basketball) or a Cincinnati (in football) crashes the party we really want them to lose.

Oh, sure, we'll ***** and moan about "Another SEC Title game rematch," or "Another Duke-North Carolina game" but that's what we really want. It's predictable, it's reassuring, and we think that we're going to get our "money's worth" because we "know" that UNC, Kansas, Villanova, and Duke "belong" there. Just like we "know" that Alabama, Georgia, Clemson, and Ohio State (and Notre Dame and USC), "belong" in the CFP. It is as certain as the sun rising in the East that those "names" will be at the top of the polls when the season starts next year.

And if unexpected...and unwelcome...names start appearing there too frequently (like the "BCS Busters") then we'll change the rules to stop it from happening. Because we do like "Cinderellas"...to a point. But only to a point.

With all do respect, speak for yourself! LOL

I love an all blue-blood Final Four but I am equally, if not more, excited about Cinderellas. Butler/VCU in 2011 assured us of a Cinderella finalist which was fun for me.

Interesting that 1991 was the same as 2022, but UNLV was in instead of Villanova.
1993 also had North Carolina and Kansas but with Kentucky and Michigan with the Fab 5.

(03-27-2022 10:09 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  

(03-27-2022 10:04 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  

(03-27-2022 06:37 PM)schmolik Wrote:  With all respect to St. Peter's, this is truly a "blue blood" Final Four.

The last time all four teams in the Final Four have previously won a national championship was 2015: Kentucky, Duke, Michigan State, and Wisconsin (they won it in 1941, I had to look it up!)

The last time all four teams in the Final Four have previously won a national championship in the 64 team era (1985-present) was 2009 (North Carolina, Michigan State, Connecticut, and Villanova). At the time, three of the four teams had won a national championship in the 2000's.

In the 64 team era, Duke has won 5 national championships (1991, 1992, 2001, 2010, and 2015), North Carolina 4 (1993, 2005, 2009, 2017), Villanova 3 (1985, 2016, 2018), and Kansas 1 (2008) for a total of 12 out of the 36 national championships in that span (1/3).

Final Fours 1985-present? Duke (13), North Carolina (12), Kansas (10), Villanova (5).

I'm not saying these are the cream of the crop of men's basketball in the 64 team era (Kentucky and Michigan State among others are noticeable absentees) but there's no Baylor, no Auburn, no Texas Tech, no Oregon (some of the more recent Final Four one hit wonders). There's no flash in the plan programs, these are programs that are at the top of the game in men's basketball.

We have Duke and North Carolina playing. Imagine if Ohio State and Michigan or Alabama and Auburn played in a College Football Playoff semifinal. Villanova-Kansas is the undercard?

If you're not into this Final Four, you don't love basketball.

This is a crucial point... I hear people "say" that they want the CFP to more resemble the NCAAT, to allow for "Cinderella" stories. But I don't think "people" really want that at all. We like the "idea" of the "Cinderella" story, but only to a point.

The typological "Cinderella Story" people point to is the Jim Valvano, NC State run to win the NCAAT in 1983...but is North Carolina State really a "Cinderella"? They were an "upset" pick for sure, but they weren't really all than much of a "Cinderella" like Saint Peters is, or UMBC, or Loyola Chicago, etc...

When it really comes down to it, we "like" so-called "Cinderella Stories" up to the Sweet Sixteen. If a "Cinderella" pushes it into the Elite Eight, we get nervous. But really...in football as well as basketball...we don't really want a "Cinderella" in our "Final Fours": we WANT the "blue-blood," elite programs. That's why when a UNLV (in basketball) or a Cincinnati (in football) crashes the party we really want them to lose.

Oh, sure, we'll ***** and moan about "Another SEC Title game rematch," or "Another Duke-North Carolina game" but that's what we really want. It's predictable, it's reassuring, and we think that we're going to get our "money's worth" because we "know" that UNC, Kansas, Villanova, and Duke "belong" there. Just like we "know" that Alabama, Georgia, Clemson, and Ohio State (and Notre Dame and USC), "belong" in the CFP. It is as certain as the sun rising in the East that those "names" will be at the top of the polls when the season starts next year.

And if unexpected...and unwelcome...names start appearing there too frequently (like the "BCS Busters") then we'll change the rules to stop it from happening. Because we do like "Cinderellas"...to a point. But only to a point.

With all do respect, speak for yourself! LOL

I love an all blue-blood Final Four but I am equally, if not more, excited about Cinderellas. Butler/VCU in 2011 assured us of a Cinderella finalist which was fun for me.

I want teams that earned it all season in the final 4, not just over a couple weeks.
But Cinderellas like Indiana St. in 1979 with Larry Bird are great. They were #1 in the polls.

2014 I had mixed feelings. UK got into the finals vs. UConn. But UK lost 3 times to Florida and finished 6 games behind them in the SEC. UConn lost 3 times to Louisville and finished about 6 games behind them in the AAC. But UK knocked off UL in the regional finals and UConn knocked off Florida in the final 4. Didn't feel like either team really deserved to be there.