schmolik
CSNBB's Big 10 Cheerleader
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RE: "Best" Final Four?
(03-27-2022 10:04 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote: (03-27-2022 06:37 PM)schmolik Wrote: With all respect to St. Peter's, this is truly a "blue blood" Final Four.
The last time all four teams in the Final Four have previously won a national championship was 2015: Kentucky, Duke, Michigan State, and Wisconsin (they won it in 1941, I had to look it up!)
The last time all four teams in the Final Four have previously won a national championship in the 64 team era (1985-present) was 2009 (North Carolina, Michigan State, Connecticut, and Villanova). At the time, three of the four teams had won a national championship in the 2000's.
In the 64 team era, Duke has won 5 national championships (1991, 1992, 2001, 2010, and 2015), North Carolina 4 (1993, 2005, 2009, 2017), Villanova 3 (1985, 2016, 2018), and Kansas 1 (2008) for a total of 12 out of the 36 national championships in that span (1/3).
Final Fours 1985-present? Duke (13), North Carolina (12), Kansas (10), Villanova (5).
I'm not saying these are the cream of the crop of men's basketball in the 64 team era (Kentucky and Michigan State among others are noticeable absentees) but there's no Baylor, no Auburn, no Texas Tech, no Oregon (some of the more recent Final Four one hit wonders). There's no flash in the plan programs, these are programs that are at the top of the game in men's basketball.
We have Duke and North Carolina playing. Imagine if Ohio State and Michigan or Alabama and Auburn played in a College Football Playoff semifinal. Villanova-Kansas is the undercard?
If you're not into this Final Four, you don't love basketball.
This is a crucial point... I hear people "say" that they want the CFP to more resemble the NCAAT, to allow for "Cinderella" stories. But I don't think "people" really want that at all. We like the "idea" of the "Cinderella" story, but only to a point.
The typological "Cinderella Story" people point to is the Jim Valvano, NC State run to win the NCAAT in 1983...but is North Carolina State really a "Cinderella"? They were an "upset" pick for sure, but they weren't really all than much of a "Cinderella" like Saint Peters is, or UMBC, or Loyola Chicago, etc...
When it really comes down to it, we "like" so-called "Cinderella Stories" up to the Sweet Sixteen. If a "Cinderella" pushes it into the Elite Eight, we get nervous. But really...in football as well as basketball...we don't really want a "Cinderella" in our "Final Fours": we WANT the "blue-blood," elite programs. That's why when a UNLV (in basketball) or a Cincinnati (in football) crashes the party we really want them to lose.
Oh, sure, we'll ***** and moan about "Another SEC Title game rematch," or "Another Duke-North Carolina game" but that's what we really want. It's predictable, it's reassuring, and we think that we're going to get our "money's worth" because we "know" that UNC, Kansas, Villanova, and Duke "belong" there. Just like we "know" that Alabama, Georgia, Clemson, and Ohio State (and Notre Dame and USC), "belong" in the CFP. It is as certain as the sun rising in the East that those "names" will be at the top of the polls when the season starts next year.
And if unexpected...and unwelcome...names start appearing there too frequently (like the "BCS Busters") then we'll change the rules to stop it from happening. Because we do like "Cinderellas"...to a point. But only to a point.
I guess the thing about Cinderella is most of us who aren't Kentucky, Murray State, or Purdue fans loved St. Peter's run. When Oral Roberts made the Sweet 16, fans were excited about them. When Lehigh upset Duke, fans that weren't Duke fans celebrated that. But unless you have a personal connection to any of those schools, you'll forget about them in a few years and move on to the next Cinderella. What's the difference between George Mason and VCU? They're literally in the same state and for save a few seasons the same conference!
I can't speak for this entire board but my alma maters are Illinois and Penn State, both huge Big Ten universities. Based on the size of their student bodies, the chances that someone is going to be an alum of Illinois or Penn State or Ohio State or Michigan is going to be way higher than say St. Peter's or Oral Roberts or Wilkes University. And even if you're not a Penn State alum, I didn't start being a Penn State fan when I became a student there. Why did I want to go there in the first place? I grew up in Pennsylvania and watch them win two national championships as a kid. You live in the state you grow up a Penn State fan and a lot of people live in Penn State as opposed to say Wyoming. I live in the Philadelphia area and Philly is one of the largest metropolitan areas in the country so I'm big on Villanova and if they're ever good again, Temple. I certainly would celebrate if LaSalle or Penn made a deep NCAA run (LaSalle made the Sweet 16 in 2013) but I wouldn't be as invested in either of them as I would Villanova or Temple because I haven't gone to as many of their games and don't feel as connected to either school. I would guess most of these Cinderellas are tiny St. Peter's like schools that most people barely knew existed before the NCAA Tournament began and will likely forget in a few years. Penn State belongs in the Final Four as much as St. Peter's does. But I'll certainly celebrate if they get there as will many Penn State fans, that's the difference between them and a St. Peter's or even a Baylor. But this Final Four has no St. Peter's, Penn State's, or Baylor's.
The next issue, what's better, a #8 seed North Carolina or a #1 seed Baylor? The #1 seed Baylor (I'm talking last year's team, not this year's team) is the better team in a calendar year but historically they hadn't made a Final Four since most of us had been born). Before 2021, they had made a few Elite 8's and were one of Kansas's Nine Dwarfs in the Big 12. Everyone on this board knows where Baylor is. Do most casual fans know? And what's Baylor's fan base? North Carolina this year lost at home to Pittsburgh. But you'd have to be living under a rock when it comes to men's basketball to not know North Carolina. So what's "better", the school that had a great year but is an "upstart" overall or the established program that had a "poor" year? I can tell you this, I'm way more excited to see Duke-North Carolina than I would have been for Duke-Baylor (and that's for a defending champion Baylor). Last year I had zero desire to see Baylor in the Final Four and less desire to see them win it all.
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