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Buc66 Offline
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MILITARY FRIENDLY
No veteran myself — but have uncompromising respect for these young Americans, and am pleased ETSU is a Military Friendly campus for these folks.


https://www.johnsoncitypress.com/news/ed...8f648.html
03-13-2022 05:09 PM
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Buc66 Offline
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RE: MILITARY FRIENDLY
(03-13-2022 05:09 PM)Buc66 Wrote:  No veteran myself — but have uncompromising respect for these young Americans, and am pleased ETSU is a Military Friendly campus for these folks.


https://www.johnsoncitypress.com/news/ed...8f648.html

Shifting gears - did the College of Pharmacy receive additional state funding to help offset the unfair tuition costs?

https://www.johnsoncitypress.com/news/ed...8d806.html
03-14-2022 06:00 PM
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RE: MILITARY FRIENDLY
(03-14-2022 06:00 PM)Buc66 Wrote:  Shifting gears - did the College of Pharmacy receive additional state funding to help offset the unfair tuition costs?

https://www.johnsoncitypress.com/news/ed...8d806.html

No. I thought that was the case (that they had not) when you posed the question, but now here's definite proof:

Pharmacy enrollment and budget declining
03-31-2022 03:55 AM
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Buc66 Offline
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RE: MILITARY FRIENDLY
(03-31-2022 03:55 AM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote:  
(03-14-2022 06:00 PM)Buc66 Wrote:  Shifting gears - did the College of Pharmacy receive additional state funding to help offset the unfair tuition costs?

https://www.johnsoncitypress.com/news/ed...8d806.html

No. I thought that was the case (that they had not) when you posed the question, but now here's definite proof:

Pharmacy enrollment and budget declining

Thanks for the update. This is reminiscent of the Medical School establishment —- “Contacted by phone after the meeting, State Rep. David Hawk (R-Greeneville) said his colleague Gary Hicks of Hawkins County, chair of the House Budget Subcommittee, had introduced a budget amendment that would provide state funds to bridge the gap between tuition at Memphis and that at ETSU.”

Has this been in previous budgets only to be voted down? What sort of clout does Gary Hicks have, any favors to call in?

Or, is this decline in enrollment to do with market conditions? Is there an oversupply of pharmacists — specifically in the region?

A little dated, but relevant:
https://www.ajpe.org/content/84/10/ajpe8136
(This post was last modified: 03-31-2022 12:59 PM by Buc66.)
03-31-2022 12:26 PM
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posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Offline
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RE: MILITARY FRIENDLY
(03-31-2022 12:26 PM)Buc66 Wrote:  
(03-31-2022 03:55 AM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote:  
(03-14-2022 06:00 PM)Buc66 Wrote:  Shifting gears - did the College of Pharmacy receive additional state funding to help offset the unfair tuition costs?

https://www.johnsoncitypress.com/news/ed...8d806.html

No. I thought that was the case (that they had not) when you posed the question, but now here's definite proof:

Pharmacy enrollment and budget declining

Thanks for the update. This is reminiscent of the Medical School establishment —- “Contacted by phone after the meeting, State Rep. David Hawk (R-Greeneville) said his colleague Gary Hicks of Hawkins County, chair of the House Budget Subcommittee, had introduced a budget amendment that would provide state funds to bridge the gap between tuition at Memphis and that at ETSU.”

Has this been in previous budgets only to be voted down? What sort of clout does Gary Hicks have, any favors to call in?

Or, is this decline in enrollment to do with market conditions? Is there an oversupply of pharmacists — specifically in the region?

A little dated, but relevant:
https://www.ajpe.org/content/84/10/ajpe8136

That abstract really tells the story really, really well. I strongly urge any who are interested and/or concerned about this to read it. I think (the collective) we knew when the school opened, and even before then, that there would eventually (soon?) be an oversupply of Pharm. D.s. "We" thought we'd be ahead of the curve, and we sorta were - barely. VERY IMPORTANTLY..............remember that this school wouldn't be here except that it was proposed, promoted, and designed to be self-financing. Most of the state west of Greeneville is of the opinion, *and rightly so* (based on how this school came to be), that 'they' shouldn't have to provide ETSU any money for it. *I'm* not saying that; that's just the opinion of those from "down thataway". "What?! *Now* you want some money for it? We thought it was going to be self-supporting?"
[To me, that viewpoint is myopic and akin to biting one's nose to spite one's face. I mean, really.................how 'fair' is it to have ETSU's pharmacy school at such a disadvantage? It's not, of course, but I certainly understand the reluctance to provide funds now. "Give 'em an inch and they'll take a mile."]

How will this play out?? Unknown. The fact that we're now in a growing demographic (higher average age here than in some areas of the state), the fact that it's associated with a medical school, the fact that this region is growing recently from an influx of retirees, etc., AND the likelihood that market forces will stabilize within the next 5-10 years make it likely this school will continue to exist. But that is far from a certainty. Incrementally downsizing seems smart. Just my opinion personally.........but I thought the last class size increase wasn't needed or warranted. Only the way I read the tea leaves.
03-31-2022 03:47 PM
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Buc66 Offline
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RE: MILITARY FRIENDLY
(03-31-2022 03:47 PM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote:  
(03-31-2022 12:26 PM)Buc66 Wrote:  
(03-31-2022 03:55 AM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote:  
(03-14-2022 06:00 PM)Buc66 Wrote:  Shifting gears - did the College of Pharmacy receive additional state funding to help offset the unfair tuition costs?

https://www.johnsoncitypress.com/news/ed...8d806.html

No. I thought that was the case (that they had not) when you posed the question, but now here's definite proof:

Pharmacy enrollment and budget declining

Thanks for the update. This is reminiscent of the Medical School establishment —- “Contacted by phone after the meeting, State Rep. David Hawk (R-Greeneville) said his colleague Gary Hicks of Hawkins County, chair of the House Budget Subcommittee, had introduced a budget amendment that would provide state funds to bridge the gap between tuition at Memphis and that at ETSU.”

Has this been in previous budgets only to be voted down? What sort of clout does Gary Hicks have, any favors to call in?

Or, is this decline in enrollment to do with market conditions? Is there an oversupply of pharmacists — specifically in the region?

A little dated, but relevant:
https://www.ajpe.org/content/84/10/ajpe8136

That abstract really tells the story really, really well. I strongly urge any who are interested and/or concerned about this to read it. I think (the collective) we knew when the school opened, and even before then, that there would eventually (soon?) be an oversupply of Pharm. D.s. "We" thought we'd be ahead of the curve, and we sorta were - barely. VERY IMPORTANTLY..............remember that this school wouldn't be here except that it was proposed, promoted, and designed to be self-financing. Most of the state west of Greeneville is of the opinion, *and rightly so* (based on how this school came to be), that 'they' shouldn't have to provide ETSU any money for it. *I'm* not saying that; that's just the opinion of those from "down thataway". "What?! *Now* you want some money for it? We thought it was going to be self-supporting?"
[To me, that viewpoint is myopic and akin to biting one's nose to spite one's face. I mean, really.................how 'fair' is it to have ETSU's pharmacy school at such a disadvantage? It's not, of course, but I certainly understand the reluctance to provide funds now. "Give 'em an inch and they'll take a mile."]

How will this play out?? Unknown. The fact that we're now in a growing demographic (higher average age here than in some areas of the state), the fact that it's associated with a medical school, the fact that this region is growing recently from an influx of retirees, etc., AND the likelihood that market forces will stabilize within the next 5-10 years make it likely this school will continue to exist. But that is far from a certainty. Incrementally downsizing seems smart. Just my opinion personally.........but I thought the last class size increase wasn't needed or warranted. Only the way I read the tea leaves.

Interesting read - thanks. This could help explain the overall situation also:

There were about 80 schools of pharmacy in the United States in 2000, now there are 141 accredited schools. . Existing Doctor of Pharmacy (PharmD) programs also contributed significantly to the expansion as the average class size increased almost 30% between 2000 and 2012.
(This post was last modified: 03-31-2022 05:45 PM by Buc66.)
03-31-2022 05:42 PM
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posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Offline
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RE: MILITARY FRIENDLY
(03-31-2022 05:42 PM)Buc66 Wrote:  
(03-31-2022 03:47 PM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote:  
(03-31-2022 12:26 PM)Buc66 Wrote:  
(03-31-2022 03:55 AM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote:  
(03-14-2022 06:00 PM)Buc66 Wrote:  Shifting gears - did the College of Pharmacy receive additional state funding to help offset the unfair tuition costs?

https://www.johnsoncitypress.com/news/ed...8d806.html

No. I thought that was the case (that they had not) when you posed the question, but now here's definite proof:

Pharmacy enrollment and budget declining

Thanks for the update. This is reminiscent of the Medical School establishment —- “Contacted by phone after the meeting, State Rep. David Hawk (R-Greeneville) said his colleague Gary Hicks of Hawkins County, chair of the House Budget Subcommittee, had introduced a budget amendment that would provide state funds to bridge the gap between tuition at Memphis and that at ETSU.”

Has this been in previous budgets only to be voted down? What sort of clout does Gary Hicks have, any favors to call in?

Or, is this decline in enrollment to do with market conditions? Is there an oversupply of pharmacists — specifically in the region?

A little dated, but relevant:
https://www.ajpe.org/content/84/10/ajpe8136

That abstract really tells the story really, really well. I strongly urge any who are interested and/or concerned about this to read it. I think (the collective) we knew when the school opened, and even before then, that there would eventually (soon?) be an oversupply of Pharm. D.s. "We" thought we'd be ahead of the curve, and we sorta were - barely. VERY IMPORTANTLY..............remember that this school wouldn't be here except that it was proposed, promoted, and designed to be self-financing. Most of the state west of Greeneville is of the opinion, *and rightly so* (based on how this school came to be), that 'they' shouldn't have to provide ETSU any money for it. *I'm* not saying that; that's just the opinion of those from "down thataway". "What?! *Now* you want some money for it? We thought it was going to be self-supporting?"
[To me, that viewpoint is myopic and akin to biting one's nose to spite one's face. I mean, really.................how 'fair' is it to have ETSU's pharmacy school at such a disadvantage? It's not, of course, but I certainly understand the reluctance to provide funds now. "Give 'em an inch and they'll take a mile."]

How will this play out?? Unknown. The fact that we're now in a growing demographic (higher average age here than in some areas of the state), the fact that it's associated with a medical school, the fact that this region is growing recently from an influx of retirees, etc., AND the likelihood that market forces will stabilize within the next 5-10 years make it likely this school will continue to exist. But that is far from a certainty. Incrementally downsizing seems smart. Just my opinion personally.........but I thought the last class size increase wasn't needed or warranted. Only the way I read the tea leaves.

Interesting read - thanks. This could help explain the overall situation also:

There were about 80 schools of pharmacy in the United States in 2000, now there are 141 accredited schools. . Existing Doctor of Pharmacy (PharmD) programs also contributed significantly to the expansion as the average class size increased almost 30% between 2000 and 2012.

Well, yes, and I almost excerpted that exact quote, but since that *is* part of the abstract, I just thought having others read that entire (it's not long) thing gave a better, fuller picture.
03-31-2022 07:08 PM
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Buc66 Offline
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RE: MILITARY FRIENDLY
(03-31-2022 07:08 PM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote:  
(03-31-2022 05:42 PM)Buc66 Wrote:  
(03-31-2022 03:47 PM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote:  
(03-31-2022 12:26 PM)Buc66 Wrote:  
(03-31-2022 03:55 AM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote:  No. I thought that was the case (that they had not) when you posed the question, but now here's definite proof:

Pharmacy enrollment and budget declining

Thanks for the update. This is reminiscent of the Medical School establishment —- “Contacted by phone after the meeting, State Rep. David Hawk (R-Greeneville) said his colleague Gary Hicks of Hawkins County, chair of the House Budget Subcommittee, had introduced a budget amendment that would provide state funds to bridge the gap between tuition at Memphis and that at ETSU.”

Has this been in previous budgets only to be voted down? What sort of clout does Gary Hicks have, any favors to call in?

Or, is this decline in enrollment to do with market conditions? Is there an oversupply of pharmacists — specifically in the region?

A little dated, but relevant:
https://www.ajpe.org/content/84/10/ajpe8136

That abstract really tells the story really, really well. I strongly urge any who are interested and/or concerned about this to read it. I think (the collective) we knew when the school opened, and even before then, that there would eventually (soon?) be an oversupply of Pharm. D.s. "We" thought we'd be ahead of the curve, and we sorta were - barely. VERY IMPORTANTLY..............remember that this school wouldn't be here except that it was proposed, promoted, and designed to be self-financing. Most of the state west of Greeneville is of the opinion, *and rightly so* (based on how this school came to be), that 'they' shouldn't have to provide ETSU any money for it. *I'm* not saying that; that's just the opinion of those from "down thataway". "What?! *Now* you want some money for it? We thought it was going to be self-supporting?"
[To me, that viewpoint is myopic and akin to biting one's nose to spite one's face. I mean, really.................how 'fair' is it to have ETSU's pharmacy school at such a disadvantage? It's not, of course, but I certainly understand the reluctance to provide funds now. "Give 'em an inch and they'll take a mile."]

How will this play out?? Unknown. The fact that we're now in a growing demographic (higher average age here than in some areas of the state), the fact that it's associated with a medical school, the fact that this region is growing recently from an influx of retirees, etc., AND the likelihood that market forces will stabilize within the next 5-10 years make it likely this school will continue to exist. But that is far from a certainty. Incrementally downsizing seems smart. Just my opinion personally.........but I thought the last class size increase wasn't needed or warranted. Only the way I read the tea leaves.

Interesting read - thanks. This could help explain the overall situation also:

There were about 80 schools of pharmacy in the United States in 2000, now there are 141 accredited schools. . Existing Doctor of Pharmacy (PharmD) programs also contributed significantly to the expansion as the average class size increased almost 30% between 2000 and 2012.

Well, yes, and I almost excerpted that exact quote, but since that *is* part of the abstract, I just thought having others read that entire (it's not long) thing gave a better, fuller picture.

Another post and I’ll stop:

https://eab.com/insights/blogs/adult-lea...y-schools/
03-31-2022 07:17 PM
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posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Offline
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Post: #9
RE: MILITARY FRIENDLY
(03-14-2022 06:00 PM)Buc66 Wrote:  Shifting gears - did the College of Pharmacy receive additional state funding to help offset the unfair tuition costs?

https://www.johnsoncitypress.com/news/ed...8d806.html

Update:

attempt to get some state money

Also...................Appalachian School of Pharmacy, waaay up in Buchanan County, has actually proved viable, despite its somewhat sketchy origin and beginning. I know a few from here who went there instead of ETSU, despite getting admitted both places. Seems crazy to me, but some of it is described as being easier (not surprising), but I *think* (not sure) that cost was lower, too. Further.............Appy is starting a program this fall guaranteeing admission to UNC's Pharmacy School. I know that's not the same, but eventually it will pull some pharmacy interest that direction.
04-01-2022 07:30 PM
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Buc66 Offline
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RE: MILITARY FRIENDLY
(04-01-2022 07:30 PM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote:  
(03-14-2022 06:00 PM)Buc66 Wrote:  Shifting gears - did the College of Pharmacy receive additional state funding to help offset the unfair tuition costs?

https://www.johnsoncitypress.com/news/ed...8d806.html

Update:

attempt to get some state money

Also...................Appalachian School of Pharmacy, waaay up in Buchanan County, has actually proved viable, despite its somewhat sketchy origin and beginning. I know a few from here who went there instead of ETSU, despite getting admitted both places. Seems crazy to me, but some of it is described as being easier (not surprising), but I *think* (not sure) that cost was lower, too. Further.............Appy is starting a program this fall guaranteeing admission to UNC's Pharmacy School. I know that's not the same, but eventually it will pull some pharmacy interest that direction.

Thanks for the informative update. I googled up the Appalachian Regional Commission and apparently it’s still in existence. If I remember, it came out of the Great Society era focusing on Appalachia poverty, health problems along with economic development. Seems the ETSU College of Pharmacy continues that legacy - improving the health in the middle of that region. From its inception, the College of Medicine has, of course, existed to serve rural Appalachia. Times and priorities change and politics take strange turns - but, is there still work to be done here? Seems so from the article. Why would the state not provide these really meager funds to HELP the cost of these students - especially in a time when money is being tossed at all sorts of “people helping programs” and down rat holes?
04-02-2022 09:17 AM
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RE: MILITARY FRIENDLY
(04-02-2022 09:17 AM)Buc66 Wrote:  
(04-01-2022 07:30 PM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote:  
(03-14-2022 06:00 PM)Buc66 Wrote:  Shifting gears - did the College of Pharmacy receive additional state funding to help offset the unfair tuition costs?

https://www.johnsoncitypress.com/news/ed...8d806.html

Update:

attempt to get some state money

Also...................Appalachian School of Pharmacy, waaay up in Buchanan County, has actually proved viable, despite its somewhat sketchy origin and beginning. I know a few from here who went there instead of ETSU, despite getting admitted both places. Seems crazy to me, but some of it is described as being easier (not surprising), but I *think* (not sure) that cost was lower, too. Further.............Appy is starting a program this fall guaranteeing admission to UNC's Pharmacy School. I know that's not the same, but eventually it will pull some pharmacy interest that direction.

Thanks for the informative update. I googled up the Appalachian Regional Commission and apparently it’s still in existence. If I remember, it came out of the Great Society era focusing on Appalachia poverty, health problems along with economic development. Seems the ETSU College of Pharmacy continues that legacy - improving the health in the middle of that region. From its inception, the College of Medicine has, of course, existed to serve rural Appalachia. Times and priorities change and politics take strange turns - but, is there still work to be done here? Seems so from the article. Why would the state not provide these really meager funds to HELP the cost of these students - especially in a time when money is being tossed at all sorts of “people helping programs” and down rat holes?

66, Unfortunately state monies flow through Nashville but there is a big dam in Knoxville. It has always been hard for our Medical/Pharmacy school to receive funding and we must always keep up the fight.
04-02-2022 10:51 AM
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RE: MILITARY FRIENDLY
(04-02-2022 09:17 AM)Buc66 Wrote:  Thanks for the informative update. I googled up the Appalachian Regional Commission and apparently it’s still in existence. If I remember, it came out of the Great Society era focusing on Appalachia poverty, health problems along with economic development. Seems the ETSU College of Pharmacy continues that legacy - improving the health in the middle of that region. From its inception, the College of Medicine has, of course, existed to serve rural Appalachia. Times and priorities change and politics take strange turns - but, is there still work to be done here? Seems so from the article. Why would the state not provide these really meager funds to HELP the cost of these students - especially in a time when money is being tossed at all sorts of “people helping programs” and down rat holes?

No, my memory is that it's a private school, and it's less than 20 years old. (Maybe like 15-20?) I don't think it at all came from any Great Society programs. It's a sort of 'tag-a-long' to their law school up there. By some rights and measures, neither should exist, and there was much disparagement over even attempting either/both of them. Kinda like the disparagement of King ("University") when they announced they were going to have a med school. But they've both slowly gained credibility, are both accredited, and have enough momentum to stick around, it appears. I also remembered another reason some students would go there instead of ETSU. It's only a 3-year program, where almost all other pharmacy schools are 4 years. So it ends up being cheaper that way. (I knew "cheaper" was one of the reasons I'd heard, but forgot that detail.)

I know Grundy is a crazy place to establish a law school or pharmacy school, but indeed, that part of Appalachia needs more of those kinds of services. [And Cleveland Clinic has done a "partnership" with the hospital in Pikeville, KY!! I can't figure that one out at all.]

And BTW........................ARC is one of the best things the federal government has ever done for Appalachia. It's positive benefits have been tremendous, and many of the things they've done over the years are hard to notice, but it's raised the standards of living, in various ways, all up and down the mountain range(s).
04-02-2022 03:46 PM
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Buc66 Offline
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RE: MILITARY FRIENDLY
This Appalachian College of Pharmacy does look most peculiar by being a stand alone doctoral degree granting school with no undergraduate degree programs, no masters degree programs, and no other doctoral degree programs, yet it’s accredited. Could someone start a stand alone graduate engineering school, for example, only offer a doctorate in engineering, and get it accredited?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appalachia...f_Pharmacy
04-02-2022 05:09 PM
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RE: MILITARY FRIENDLY
(04-02-2022 05:09 PM)Buc66 Wrote:  This Appalachian College of Pharmacy does look most peculiar by being a stand alone doctoral degree granting school with no undergraduate degree programs, no masters degree programs, and no other doctoral degree programs, yet it’s accredited. Could someone start a stand alone graduate engineering school, for example, only offer a doctorate in engineering, and get it accredited?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appalachia...f_Pharmacy

I think it is similar to a medical degree. You need a college degree to get in but not a masters degree.
04-02-2022 06:11 PM
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