(03-16-2022 09:59 AM)bearcatmark Wrote: Why is it so hard to admit the player has agency in his decision and deserves to know where he fits into the future of the program if he stays? A coach can like the kid, be committed to keeping him around if he wants to stay but be honest that unless he makes drastic improvements he'll probably have a limited role. That isn't running a kid off.
Exactly. Giving a kid a scholarship isn't a commitment to making sure that kid is playing starter minutes by the time he's an upper classmen. Wes owes these kids honesty and support and then allow the kids to determine if the role that they envision based on what they've seen from them fits.
The sense of entitlement in these young players is astounding. I don't think a scholarship should ever be revoked for non-disciplinary reasons, but playing time has to be conditional on performance. Everybody knows deep down that, whatever "promises" were made on signing, if you are getting outplayed eventually the guy who is outplaying you is going to get your minutes and that is the way it should be
I'm not sure where you are seeing a sense of entitlement. Wes has said many times that he promises nothing in regards to playing time. Mason talked with Wes, realized that barring drastic improvement he wasn't going to get a lot of minutes and decided to look elsewhere, that's not entitlement.
I agree with Mark, Wes isn't running players off. But he is letting them know what role he sees them playing next season and not every player is going to want that role.
The way that Mason is entering the transfer portal this year vs last year is just more evidence that Brannen's firing was never about entitled kids, but about Brannen being a bad coach and a not very nice person.
didn't mason madsen also enter the portal last year, and then withdrew(?) his name after miller was hired?
(03-16-2022 09:35 AM)levydl Wrote: Why is it so hard to admit that there is functionally no difference between this and running a kid off?
Why is it so hard to admit the player has agency in his decision and deserves to know where he fits into the future of the program if he stays? A coach can like the kid, be committed to keeping him around if he wants to stay but be honest that unless he makes drastic improvements he'll probably have a limited role. That isn't running a kid off.
I'd much rather know the truth, rather than waste of my life trying to figure out what the person actually meant by 'opportunities'.
We have 13 scholarship players and not all can play (Though Wes sure tried), so you want an honest coach who tells each player what he has to do to get better and what his role might be. The player has to decide what is best for him.
Sometimes you may tell a guy that he has his work cut out for him and it plays out that they really step it up and earn that spot next season. But being up front with players is key.
Not the same level, but I coach a select team and I tell all my kids at the end of the season what they need to really focus on and remind them that next season isn't guaranteed. There are always kids that weren't on the team that really worked on their game and step up the following season and they will be gunning for your spot. I never look at a kid and tell him that he already made the team next season. Needs to keep working and improve and take nothing for granted and keep working hard.
(03-16-2022 09:04 AM)Dont tase me bro Wrote: Mason's tweet suggests that it was his decision to leave. I hope that's the case. I'm thinking he may have been told that his playing time would be diminished. Maybe I'm reading too much into it.
I like Mason - I think he is great team guy and at times really gave them a spark off the bench. Hope he lands in a good spot.
Yes, that is the new euphemism for running a kid off, the "frank conversation." I wonder what Wes told Madsen last year to get him to stay? Maybe he said, "Give me a year, and you can always transfer next season if it's not working out." Hope that's the case. I don't blame Wes, this is just how it's going to be, it seems. Maybe it's better for all parties in the end.
Yep. I think you summed it up well and I'm not saying I have a problem with it in situations like this. But for many fans if another coach does it, he "ran them off". Now if your coach does it, it's just an honest conversation and the player's decision. Good luck to Mason.
03-16-2022 02:21 PM
BearcatMan
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(03-16-2022 09:35 AM)levydl Wrote: Why is it so hard to admit that there is functionally no difference between this and running a kid off?
Why is it so hard to admit the player has agency in his decision and deserves to know where he fits into the future of the program if he stays? A coach can like the kid, be committed to keeping him around if he wants to stay but be honest that unless he makes drastic improvements he'll probably have a limited role. That isn't running a kid off.
Oh please. The only agency left to the player after one of these difficult talks is to make the transfer official. Not sure why you guys insist on pretending otherwise. Wes needs to upgrade the roster and so he needs some of these guys gone and he's making that happen.
(03-16-2022 09:35 AM)levydl Wrote: Why is it so hard to admit that there is functionally no difference between this and running a kid off?
Why is it so hard to admit the player has agency in his decision and deserves to know where he fits into the future of the program if he stays? A coach can like the kid, be committed to keeping him around if he wants to stay but be honest that unless he makes drastic improvements he'll probably have a limited role. That isn't running a kid off.
Oh please. The only agency left to the player after one of these difficult talks is to make the transfer official. Not sure why you guys insist on pretending otherwise. Wes needs to upgrade the roster and so he needs some of these guys gone and he's making that happen.
(03-16-2022 09:35 AM)levydl Wrote: Why is it so hard to admit that there is functionally no difference between this and running a kid off?
Why is it so hard to admit the player has agency in his decision and deserves to know where he fits into the future of the program if he stays? A coach can like the kid, be committed to keeping him around if he wants to stay but be honest that unless he makes drastic improvements he'll probably have a limited role. That isn't running a kid off.
Oh please. The only agency left to the player after one of these difficult talks is to make the transfer official. Not sure why you guys insist on pretending otherwise. Wes needs to upgrade the roster and so he needs some of these guys gone and he's making that happen.
Yea...that's just nonsense. There's literally no evidence he forced anyone out and every responsible coach needs to give his player an honest assessment of where he stands, what his role is likely to be and where he needs to develop to change that.
(03-16-2022 09:04 AM)Dont tase me bro Wrote: Mason's tweet suggests that it was his decision to leave. I hope that's the case. I'm thinking he may have been told that his playing time would be diminished. Maybe I'm reading too much into it.
I like Mason - I think he is great team guy and at times really gave them a spark off the bench. Hope he lands in a good spot.
Yes, that is the new euphemism for running a kid off, the "frank conversation." I wonder what Wes told Madsen last year to get him to stay? Maybe he said, "Give me a year, and you can always transfer next season if it's not working out." Hope that's the case. I don't blame Wes, this is just how it's going to be, it seems. Maybe it's better for all parties in the end.
I'm not sure if this has been posted here but I found Wes' post-season presser extremely informative. While he didn't name Mason or any player by name, he really digs into his philosophy of personnel management and the portal at about the 11:45 mark:
Thank you for posting this.
Keep them coming. I didn’t even know that they have an after the season wrapup press conference.
Wes may have dropped a hint on the 1530 radio show with Mo Egger today. Talking about going to the transfer portal he said something like "the couple, hopefully only a couple spots that we have to fill." Assuming that he has a good idea of who is transferring and isn't looking to add any more freshmen (which seems like a safe assumption based on class distribution) two is apparently Wes's guess.
It seems like we've been going after SG's and veteran SG's at that, so DDJ is likely the other guy Wes expects to leave (though I suppose it could also be Saunders or MAW).
(03-16-2022 02:46 PM)BearcatMan Wrote: Having seen him play three times this year, this kid would definitely be worth a look. MAC Freshman of the Year and 3rd team All MAC.
Quote: Texas Tech, West Virginia, Illinois, Ole Miss, Indiana, Loyola-Chicago, Cincinnati, Oklahoma, Iowa State, Wichita State, Buffalo, Jacksonville, Central Michigan, Miami (OH), Liberty, Cornell, Hofstra, and College of Charleston have all reached out to Payton Sparks,per
@On3sports
I was initially hoping for 2 to transfer out but am now hoping for 3 & would be cool with 4. Need to upgrade the talent now to be ready for year 1 in the Big 12.
(03-16-2022 08:32 PM)skyblade Wrote: Wes may have dropped a hint on the 1530 radio show with Mo Egger today. Talking about going to the transfer portal he said something like "the couple, hopefully only a couple spots that we have to fill." Assuming that he has a good idea of who is transferring and isn't looking to add any more freshmen (which seems like a safe assumption based on class distribution) two is apparently Wes's guess.
It seems like we've been going after SG's and veteran SG's at that, so DDJ is likely the other guy Wes expects to leave (though I suppose it could also be Saunders or MAW).
I think if you listen to the BCJ podcast the vibe was the DDJ was more than likely to return. Still not a lock but that was the lean which is what I got from listening to Wes too.
(03-16-2022 08:32 PM)skyblade Wrote: Wes may have dropped a hint on the 1530 radio show with Mo Egger today. Talking about going to the transfer portal he said something like "the couple, hopefully only a couple spots that we have to fill." Assuming that he has a good idea of who is transferring and isn't looking to add any more freshmen (which seems like a safe assumption based on class distribution) two is apparently Wes's guess.
It seems like we've been going after SG's and veteran SG's at that, so DDJ is likely the other guy Wes expects to leave (though I suppose it could also be Saunders or MAW).
I think if you listen to the BCJ podcast the vibe was the DDJ was more than likely to return. Still not a lock but that was the lean which is what I got from listening to Wes too.
I still expect 3 to 4 more transfers.
Chad said that wasn't based on anything firm, just his own feelings from how Wes spoke. That's not much. I thought the same listening to Wes's post-season interview, but it definitely is not enough to be anywhere close to sure on.
Wes is the best possible source of info on this, if he says a couple I'm inclined to believe it. Though I was already leaning towards 2 anyway. Positionally I think we are set at the 3 and 4. My guess is we are trying to add a younger center who can compete with Ody/Lakhin for minutes, but is not a sure starter and a long athletic veteran starting SG/PG. If DDJ comes back then either MAW or Saunders (probably Saunders) leaves and Transfer/DDJ/MAW rotate minutes with McGinnis (and/or Skillings) filling in a lesser role. If DDJ doesn't come back then it's MAW/Transfer/Saunders.
(03-16-2022 09:04 AM)Dont tase me bro Wrote: Mason's tweet suggests that it was his decision to leave. I hope that's the case. I'm thinking he may have been told that his playing time would be diminished. Maybe I'm reading too much into it.
I like Mason - I think he is great team guy and at times really gave them a spark off the bench. Hope he lands in a good spot.
Yes, that is the new euphemism for running a kid off, the "frank conversation." I wonder what Wes told Madsen last year to get him to stay? Maybe he said, "Give me a year, and you can always transfer next season if it's not working out." Hope that's the case. I don't blame Wes, this is just how it's going to be, it seems. Maybe it's better for all parties in the end.
I'm not sure if this has been posted here but I found Wes' post-season presser extremely informative. While he didn't name Mason or any player by name, he really digs into his philosophy of personnel management and the portal at about the 11:45 mark:
Thank you for posting this.
Keep them coming. I didn’t even know that they have an after the season wrapup press conference.