Better breakdown of revenues can be found at this link:

https://knightnewhousedata.org

In the end when they do break free it will be about 80 schools.

College sports is not the NFL. You aren't going to have 30-40 teams able to take up national interest - you'll just alienate regions without strong teams.

(02-27-2022 10:09 AM)schmolik Wrote:  

(02-26-2022 11:10 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(02-26-2022 10:03 PM)Gamenole Wrote:  

(02-26-2022 08:54 PM)Porcine Wrote:  

(02-26-2022 08:27 PM)schmolik Wrote:  I propose a top 40 tier. Why 40? So my Illini are included, duh!

Big 10: Penn State, Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Indiana, Illinois, Northwestern, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa
ACC: Virginia, North Carolina, Duke, Clemson, South Carolina, Georgia, Florida, Florida State, Miami, Notre Dame
SEC: Alabama, Auburn, LSU, Tennessee, Kentucky, Louisville, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M, Arkansas
Pac 10: Stanford, USC, UCLA, California, Washington, Oregon, Kansas, Nebraska, TCU, Baylor (Sorry, someone's got to be stuck with them).

Round Robin in football, double round robin in basketball.

Gamenole would be thrilled.

NOOOOOO! Lol that would be just my luck, BOTH of my schools trapped in the ACC with UVA, UNC & Duke.

Neither UGA nor Florida would go for that either.

Take Two:

Big 10: Penn State, Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Indiana, Illinois, Northwestern, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa
ACC: Virginia, North Carolina, Duke, Clemson, South Carolina, Tennessee, Kentucky, Louisville, Miami, Notre Dame
SEC: Alabama, Auburn, Georgia, Florida, Florida State, LSU, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M, Arkansas
Pac 10: Stanford, USC, UCLA, California, Washington, Oregon, Kansas, Nebraska, TCU, Baylor (Sorry, someone's got to be stuck with them).

The ACC is more "Northern" (with the exception of Miami who is stuck with them) while the SEC is truly South with Arkansas the furthest North. The ACC now gets UNC, Duke, UK, and Lville in men's basketball.

I know someone's always not going to be happy in a 4x10 alignment. The SEC can't have 16 teams like the real SEC does.

Replying to an old post...but half of this statement is dead wrong. The SEC is certainly more "southern" than the ACC. But Miami (other than geographically) isn't remotely southern in the classic sense. "FSU and Clemson" should replace "Miami" in that sentence. FSU, in particular, is a quintessential SEC school that's not actually in the SEC.

(08-03-2022 09:11 AM)jacksfan29! Wrote:  Colorado took out an $18,000,000 loan from the PAC to cover expenses due to losses based on clueless Covid regulations in Boulder? Wow, the idiocy of the school leadership is stunningly bad.

C'mon jacks, it's a school with an ugly wooly drool-cow for a mascot. What'd you expect from that? Sound budgets?

(05-13-2022 12:48 PM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  

(02-27-2022 04:05 PM)Gamenole Wrote:  

(02-27-2022 03:13 PM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  IMO, the two most interesting cases on the Bottom 10 are GT and NC State.

Tech could be the lone Southern school in the ACC outside UNC, UVA and Duke that wouldn't go full throttle on an SEC invite. Might GT's administration and key alumni be fine competing in a second-tier league as opposed to entering the SEC rat race and facing a perpetual losing battle?

NC State, hmmmm ... Often wondered why the Wolfpack haven't fared better since Norm Sloan's and Jim Valvano's bookend national championships less than 10 years apart. if there is one "P5" school that might most benefit by joining a different conference and escaping the shadow of its neighbor(s) and rival(s), it could well be NC State.

I agree, and wonder if GT would want to come BACK to the SEC knowing that. I have no insight into the Yellowjacket fanbase, but I wonder if they might not prefer to go full-throttle on academics, trumpet the value of the CIC, and head for the B1G.

NC State I agree on as well, I think they could really blossom in the SEC away from UNC and making SEC money. From what I've gathered from some of our NC posters though, they may not be allowed to separate from UNC due to state politics & control. Hopefully that won't be an issue if things go that way and both schools are headed for greener pastures and big paydays.

Good points from both of you. I have long thought NCSU would do better separated from the "NC 4" of the ACC. I believe NCSU would be a good SEC fit.

GT has had revenue and coaching issues that can't all be blamed on ACC affiliation. Clemson, a couple hours up I-85, succeeds well.

Saying GT's problem is being too urban and being more academically focused, is too simplistic. GT has a rich athletic tradition that needs a shot of adrenaline, now and then.

NC State purposely hurt its athletic department after the book concerning Jim Valvano came out. Every after the author of the book took back the claims, NC State chose a new path by raising the academic standards for the athletes to the highest in the ACC. NC State (and Maryland after Len Bias's death) essentially played with students who could not compete at the highest level. The academic restrictions ended with the hiring of Sidney Lowe.

NC State used to trade basketball championships with UNC and Duke. The school hasn't been relevant in basketball in 35 years.

This is why NC State's revenue is not UNC's level. The university leaders wanted it that way.

(02-27-2022 03:13 PM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  

(02-27-2022 09:40 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  I don’t completely buy the numbers. No way in hell does SMU, USF. and Temple garner more revenue from Cincinnati with half the number of people in attendance for football and basketball.

"Lies, damn lies and statistics"

Bottom 10 with "P5" status:

1. Washington State: 69.3M
2. Iowa State: 76.7M
3. Oregon State: 77.0M
4. Texas Tech: 81.2M
5. Wake Forest: 84.5M
6. Georgia Tech: 86.4M
7. Syracuse: 86.4
8. Kansas State: 86.4
9. Boston College: 87.0
10. North Carolina State: 88.7

Whether these figures are completely on target in terms of what's being measured or conveyed, the institutions on this list are for the most part not that surprising.

WSU and OSU would certainly be on the chopping block if there was some kind of breakaway movement in the Pac-12. Same goes in the ACC for Wake, BC and Syracuse as private (but not elite) schools without the basketball and academic cachet of Duke.

IMO, the two most interesting cases on the Bottom 10 are GT and NC State.

Tech could be the lone Southern school in the ACC outside UNC, UVA and Duke that wouldn't go full throttle on an SEC invite. Might GT's administration and key alumni be fine competing in a second-tier league as opposed to entering the SEC rat race and facing a perpetual losing battle?

NC State, hmmmm ... Often wondered why the Wolfpack haven't fared better since Norm Sloan's and Jim Valvano's bookend national championships less than 10 years apart. if there is one "P5" school that might most benefit by joining a different conference and escaping the shadow of its neighbor(s) and rival(s), it could well be NC State.

A lot of the figures are manipulated like USNWR stats.

If anyone is interested, here are the numbers for the A10. Edit: just found St. Bona!!!

Davidson College $10, 040, 013
University of Dayton $19, 052, 853
Duquesne University $11,141,988
Fordham University $18, 897, 501
George Mason University $10, 356, 073
George Washington University $9, 766, 394
La Salle University $5, 341, 544
Loyola University-Chicago $7, 294, 038
University of Rhode Island $13, 786, 032
University of Richmond $16, 651, 585
St. Joseph's University $10, 249, 785
Saint Louis University $11, 402, 618
St. Bonaventure University $7, 640, 651
VCU $14,002, 920

(02-27-2022 03:13 PM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  NC State, hmmmm ... Often wondered why the Wolfpack haven't fared better since Norm Sloan's and Jim Valvano's bookend national championships less than 10 years apart. if there is one "P5" school that might most benefit by joining a different conference and escaping the shadow of its neighbor(s) and rival(s), it could well be NC State.

North Carolina State University leadership purposely held down the athletic department after the scandals.

When Sidney Lowe was hired by NC State in 2006, the university finally gave the athletic department the flexibility to truly recruit national championship-level athletes.

After Valvano resigned, Les Robinson was hired by NC State. If the university would have let him recruit proper athletes, the school may have continued success.

Man how realignment changes things. Mountain West bottom team now more revenue than 3 AAC teams. But that doesn’t take into account those 3 (new) AAC teams making AAC conference distribution revenue.

Would be interesting if it were possible for AAC and MWC to merge. Maybe just for football only. And throw Army in there. And a million or two more in tv revenue distributions per member, to boot.

Top total revenues of potential G5 expansion candidates, I believe 2022:

Air Force 76.6 Million
San Diego State 65.9 Million
UNLV 64.2 Million
Memphis 62.2 Million
Colorado State 61.3 Million
JMU 57.8 Million
Liberty 57.4 Million
South Florida 56.1 Million
East Carolina 55.0 Million
Fresno State 54.1 Million
UMass 53.6 Million
Old Dominion 53.4 Million
Boise State 50.6 Million

https://twitter.com/TheZagaholic/status/...3745259520

(08-04-2023 11:21 PM)sstaedtler88 Wrote:  Top total revenues of potential G5 expansion candidates, I believe 2022:

Air Force 76.6 Million
San Diego State 65.9 Million
UNLV 64.2 Million
Memphis 62.2 Million
Colorado State 61.3 Million
JMU 57.8 Million
Liberty 57.4 Million
South Florida 56.1 Million
East Carolina 55.0 Million
Fresno State 54.1 Million
UMass 53.6 Million
Old Dominion 53.4 Million
Boise State 50.6 Million

https://twitter.com/TheZagaholic/status/...3745259520

What in the world is JMU doing with their money? They were reportedly paying Cignetti a base salary of roughly $550k this year which is lowest in the sunbelt but have nearly identical revenue as liberty who's paying chadwell 7x more at $4 million. JMU sponsord 18 sports to our 20 so it's not like money is being spread across more sports either.

(12-07-2023 07:04 PM)Frontierman Wrote:  

(08-04-2023 11:21 PM)sstaedtler88 Wrote:  Top total revenues of potential G5 expansion candidates, I believe 2022:

Air Force 76.6 Million
San Diego State 65.9 Million
UNLV 64.2 Million
Memphis 62.2 Million
Colorado State 61.3 Million
JMU 57.8 Million
Liberty 57.4 Million
South Florida 56.1 Million
East Carolina 55.0 Million
Fresno State 54.1 Million
UMass 53.6 Million
Old Dominion 53.4 Million
Boise State 50.6 Million

https://twitter.com/TheZagaholic/status/...3745259520

What in the world is JMU doing with their money? They were reportedly paying Cignetti a base salary of roughly $550k this year which is lowest in the sunbelt but have nearly identical revenue as liberty who's paying chadwell 7x more at $4 million. JMU sponsord 18 sports to our 20 so it's not like money is being spread across more sports either.

https://knightnewhousedata.org/fcs/james...he_money-0

A lot of theirs goes to facilities it seems. Perhaps from construction and renovation projects? Different programs factor in those costs in different ways. Some put it in the athletic budget, others keep them separate.

They also spend more than most on "Support and Admin comp" and "Athletic Student Aid" than most. So I am guessing they have more and better compensated admin/support staff and value the "cost" of their athletic scholarships more than others.

(12-07-2023 07:04 PM)Frontierman Wrote:  

(08-04-2023 11:21 PM)sstaedtler88 Wrote:  Top total revenues of potential G5 expansion candidates, I believe 2022:

Air Force 76.6 Million
San Diego State 65.9 Million
UNLV 64.2 Million
Memphis 62.2 Million
Colorado State 61.3 Million
JMU 57.8 Million
Liberty 57.4 Million
South Florida 56.1 Million
East Carolina 55.0 Million
Fresno State 54.1 Million
UMass 53.6 Million
Old Dominion 53.4 Million
Boise State 50.6 Million

https://twitter.com/TheZagaholic/status/...3745259520

What in the world is JMU doing with their money? They were reportedly paying Cignetti a base salary of roughly $550k this year which is lowest in the sunbelt but have nearly identical revenue as liberty who's paying chadwell 7x more at $4 million. JMU sponsord 18 sports to our 20 so it's not like money is being spread across more sports either.

JMU funds Olympic scholarships at the Top of G5 and probably competitive with plenty of P5 schools. That is how you make three NCAA tournaments in a fall season that doesn't include the best team at JMU, women's lacrosse.

(12-11-2023 01:59 PM)freshtop Wrote:  

(12-07-2023 07:04 PM)Frontierman Wrote:  

(08-04-2023 11:21 PM)sstaedtler88 Wrote:  Top total revenues of potential G5 expansion candidates, I believe 2022:

Air Force 76.6 Million
San Diego State 65.9 Million
UNLV 64.2 Million
Memphis 62.2 Million
Colorado State 61.3 Million
JMU 57.8 Million
Liberty 57.4 Million
South Florida 56.1 Million
East Carolina 55.0 Million
Fresno State 54.1 Million
UMass 53.6 Million
Old Dominion 53.4 Million
Boise State 50.6 Million

https://twitter.com/TheZagaholic/status/...3745259520

What in the world is JMU doing with their money? They were reportedly paying Cignetti a base salary of roughly $550k this year which is lowest in the sunbelt but have nearly identical revenue as liberty who's paying chadwell 7x more at $4 million. JMU sponsord 18 sports to our 20 so it's not like money is being spread across more sports either.

https://knightnewhousedata.org/fcs/james...he_money-0

A lot of theirs goes to facilities it seems. Perhaps from construction and renovation projects? Different programs factor in those costs in different ways. Some put it in the athletic budget, others keep them separate.

They also spend more than most on "Support and Admin comp" and "Athletic Student Aid" than most. So I am guessing they have more and better compensated admin/support staff and value the "cost" of their athletic scholarships more than others.

Mainly overhead and admin. Id doubt they're actually spending that much more than other schools, just accounting for it differently.

https://www.apa.virginia.gov/reports/Jam...AA2022.pdf

as compared to ODU:

https://www.apa.virginia.gov/reports/Old...AA2022.pdf

https://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances
This is a link to the June USAToday report.

SDSU is coming for that azz...

https://www.sportico.com/business/commer...234646029/


Rank School Total Operating Revenues 2022-23
1 San Diego State $103,930,691
2 Air Force $81,240,615
3 Colorado State $64,304,072
4 Boise State $60,653,009
5 UNLV $56,560,028
6 Hawaii $53,867,030
7 Utah State $51,789,705
8 Wyoming $50,083,847
9 Nevada $49,533,190
10 Fresno State $48,938,712
11 New Mexico $47,763,222
Total $668,664,121
Average $60,787,647

(04-05-2024 04:17 PM)AztecEmpire Wrote:  SDSU is coming for that azz...

https://www.sportico.com/business/commer...234646029/


Rank School Total Operating Revenues 2022-23
1 San Diego State $103,930,691
2 Air Force $81,240,615
3 Colorado State $64,304,072
4 Boise State $60,653,009
5 UNLV $56,560,028
6 Hawaii $53,867,030
7 Utah State $51,789,705
8 Wyoming $50,083,847
9 Nevada $49,533,190
10 Fresno State $48,938,712
11 New Mexico $47,763,222
Total $668,664,121
Average $60,787,647

The nice thing about building a stadium that generates more revenue than expenses. And the MSL isn't even playing here yet.

(04-05-2024 04:17 PM)AztecEmpire Wrote:  SDSU is coming for that azz...

https://www.sportico.com/business/commer...234646029/


Rank School Total Operating Revenues 2022-23
1 San Diego State $103,930,691
2 Air Force $81,240,615
3 Colorado State $64,304,072
4 Boise State $60,653,009
5 UNLV $56,560,028
6 Hawaii $53,867,030
7 Utah State $51,789,705
8 Wyoming $50,083,847
9 Nevada $49,533,190
10 Fresno State $48,938,712
11 New Mexico $47,763,222
Total $668,664,121
Average $60,787,647

2,3,4 made the playoffs and 1's only loss was to #3. 14 of the top 17 are in the 17 biggest traditional powers (the other 3 are private). The rest of the top 17 were strong programs with huge fan bases-Texas A&M, Wisconsin, Michigan St. Top 27 all 2025 Big 10 or SEC schools except for FSU and Clemson. The other 6 publics from those conferences are 29, 31, 33, 42 and 45 (Purdue).

SDSU has upped their expenditures to the level of the bottom of the P5. That got UH, UCF, Cincinnati, BYU and SMU in.

Non P4 in expenditures:
50. Oregon St.
51. San Diego St.
54. Washington St.
55. UConn
58. South Florida
59. Air Force
60. James Madison
61. UNLV
62. Colorado St.
63. Memphis
64. ECU
Then it drops from 64 million down to 58 million for 65 Boise and 66 UMass and down to 54 million for 67 ODU.

Bottom 25 all MAC, CUSA, Sun Belt. UAB bottom of AAC at #83 and $42.2 million. New Mexico bottom of MWC at #75 and $47 million.

Top of the 5 Gs in spending:
MWC 51. SDSU $96.6 million
AAC 58. USF $88.2 million
SB 60. JMU $68.0 million
MAC 66. UMass $57.6 million, current 85. WMU $41.2 million
CUSA 78. FIU $45.3 million

Not counting UMass, 7 Sun Belt schools are spending more than the top MAC school and 4 are spending more than the top CUSA school and 7 more than the #2 CUSA school. Dichotomy in Sun Belt. Of the bottom 17, 9 are MAC and 7 are Sun Belt with only one CUSA. ULM is spending less than 1/3 of what JMU does.

(11-08-2022 06:15 PM)chess Wrote:  

(05-13-2022 12:48 PM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  

(02-27-2022 04:05 PM)Gamenole Wrote:  

(02-27-2022 03:13 PM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  IMO, the two most interesting cases on the Bottom 10 are GT and NC State.

Tech could be the lone Southern school in the ACC outside UNC, UVA and Duke that wouldn't go full throttle on an SEC invite. Might GT's administration and key alumni be fine competing in a second-tier league as opposed to entering the SEC rat race and facing a perpetual losing battle?

NC State, hmmmm ... Often wondered why the Wolfpack haven't fared better since Norm Sloan's and Jim Valvano's bookend national championships less than 10 years apart. if there is one "P5" school that might most benefit by joining a different conference and escaping the shadow of its neighbor(s) and rival(s), it could well be NC State.

I agree, and wonder if GT would want to come BACK to the SEC knowing that. I have no insight into the Yellowjacket fanbase, but I wonder if they might not prefer to go full-throttle on academics, trumpet the value of the CIC, and head for the B1G.

NC State I agree on as well, I think they could really blossom in the SEC away from UNC and making SEC money. From what I've gathered from some of our NC posters though, they may not be allowed to separate from UNC due to state politics & control. Hopefully that won't be an issue if things go that way and both schools are headed for greener pastures and big paydays.

Good points from both of you. I have long thought NCSU would do better separated from the "NC 4" of the ACC. I believe NCSU would be a good SEC fit.

GT has had revenue and coaching issues that can't all be blamed on ACC affiliation. Clemson, a couple hours up I-85, succeeds well.

Saying GT's problem is being too urban and being more academically focused, is too simplistic. GT has a rich athletic tradition that needs a shot of adrenaline, now and then.

NC State purposely hurt its athletic department after the book concerning Jim Valvano came out. Every after the author of the book took back the claims, NC State chose a new path by raising the academic standards for the athletes to the highest in the ACC. NC State (and Maryland after Len Bias's death) essentially played with students who could not compete at the highest level. The academic restrictions ended with the hiring of Sidney Lowe.

NC State used to trade basketball championships with UNC and Duke. The school hasn't been relevant in basketball in 35 years.

This is why NC State's revenue is not UNC's level. The university leaders wanted it that way.

Sounds a lot like what Notre Dame did to Lou Holtz and the program after Under The Tarnished Dome came out around 1995.

That equally was a hit piece. Didn't matter to the administration. PR did.