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KSU @ CMU
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Muskrat Offline
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Post: #41
RE: KSU @ CMU
(02-27-2022 05:16 AM)dannyb73 Wrote:  
(02-27-2022 01:18 AM)axeme Wrote:  
(02-27-2022 12:46 AM)cschierh Wrote:  How could Buffalo jump us? Doesn’t the league go ny winning percentage? 15-5 is ,750.

14-5 is .737.

KSU would be a half game ahead of UB if both finish with 5 losses. If KSU and. UT win Tuesday, KSU would be 2nd by beating UB, 3rd by losing. The only way KSU’ could finish 4th is by losing both games next week.

The MAC is the ONLY conference in America (of the 31) that does not go by winning percentage. What I typed earlier is a fact. If they sweep us and have one less win, they will jump us.

(02-27-2022 09:57 AM)dannyb73 Wrote:  
(02-27-2022 07:42 AM)Muskrat Wrote:  Winning the MAC regular season title would be nice, but KSU doesn't control their own destiny. Getting a good seed is nice, too, but since most people only care about winning the conference tournament the bottom line is that SOMEONE will win three tough games and it will be the team that deserves it. I hope, of course, it is the Flashes but I would say it's a toss-up among five teams. That's the MAC.

Winning the MAC regular season and the #1 seed would guarantee an NIT bid. That is worth caring about should the 3 days in Cleveland not go our way.

Please provided me your source about winning percentage. I'm not doubting you, but the only thing I could find on the official MAC site refers to winning percentage being the determinant.
02-27-2022 10:28 AM
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Muskrat Offline
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Post: #42
RE: KSU @ CMU
(02-27-2022 09:57 AM)dannyb73 Wrote:  
(02-27-2022 07:42 AM)Muskrat Wrote:  Winning the MAC regular season title would be nice, but KSU doesn't control their own destiny. Getting a good seed is nice, too, but since most people only care about winning the conference tournament the bottom line is that SOMEONE will win three tough games and it will be the team that deserves it. I hope, of course, it is the Flashes but I would say it's a toss-up among five teams. That's the MAC.

Winning the MAC regular season and the #1 seed would guarantee an NIT bid. That is worth caring about should the 3 days in Cleveland not go our way.

Good point, dannyb73, but my point was merely that KSU doesn't control its own destiny in terms of winning the regular season title. They do control their own destiny in terms of the tournament, but so will 7 other teams.
02-27-2022 10:31 AM
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anti-zip Offline
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Post: #43
RE: KSU @ CMU
(02-27-2022 06:11 AM)Older and Older Wrote:  
(02-26-2022 09:09 PM)FlashintheFan Wrote:  How did no one see that the ball was out of bounds?

Sent from my SM-G955U using CSNbbs mobile app

That call ridiculous, lying out of bounds with ball in his hands and they give CMU the ball. Refs totally created lack of tempo in this game. Another example of Refs making game about them and not kids. Just awful

I'm still perplexed by what happened on that play. Once again our understanding was hurt by the announcers really having no idea what was being reviewed. It seemed like they could not have been reviewing if it was out of bounds because it very clearly was. I think he has two a$$ cheeks and an elbow down out of bounds before he passed it. I didn't think they would be able to review that because they let play continue (still no idea how they missed it live). So then the other question... Why the heck did they add time? It seemed like the clock stopped early (not early if the obvious out of bounds was called but it wasn't). So how did time get added? So much to be confused about.

In general we showed great toughness getting past some crucial calls that went against us. I thought it was over when they tossed Jacobs for making eye contact with another person. Would've been infuriating to see us lose due to such a BS call. Then late in the game there were two pretty bad bailout fouls called against Beck, the second of which was a light touch foul with the shot clock running down and the dribbler going towards the sideline outside the arc. If there was a basketball dictionary of calls that one would be used as the example of a bailout. Finally the absurd out of bounds call. Our guys were clearly getting frustrated. Beck punched the stantion after the first bad call on him late. I saw the ref spin around and look at him fortunately he had his back turned for the punch bc it was the same ref that threw the tech on Jacobs and he looked like he wanted to do it. But they were able to get through the frustration and the impact of the calls and pull out the W.
02-27-2022 11:13 AM
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Polish Hammer Offline
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Post: #44
RE: KSU @ CMU
(02-27-2022 10:28 AM)Muskrat Wrote:  
(02-27-2022 05:16 AM)dannyb73 Wrote:  
(02-27-2022 01:18 AM)axeme Wrote:  
(02-27-2022 12:46 AM)cschierh Wrote:  How could Buffalo jump us? Doesn’t the league go ny winning percentage? 15-5 is ,750.

14-5 is .737.

KSU would be a half game ahead of UB if both finish with 5 losses. If KSU and. UT win Tuesday, KSU would be 2nd by beating UB, 3rd by losing. The only way KSU’ could finish 4th is by losing both games next week.

The MAC is the ONLY conference in America (of the 31) that does not go by winning percentage. What I typed earlier is a fact. If they sweep us and have one less win, they will jump us.

(02-27-2022 09:57 AM)dannyb73 Wrote:  
(02-27-2022 07:42 AM)Muskrat Wrote:  Winning the MAC regular season title would be nice, but KSU doesn't control their own destiny. Getting a good seed is nice, too, but since most people only care about winning the conference tournament the bottom line is that SOMEONE will win three tough games and it will be the team that deserves it. I hope, of course, it is the Flashes but I would say it's a toss-up among five teams. That's the MAC.

Winning the MAC regular season and the #1 seed would guarantee an NIT bid. That is worth caring about should the 3 days in Cleveland not go our way.

Please provided me your source about winning percentage. I'm not doubting you, but the only thing I could find on the official MAC site refers to winning percentage being the determinant.
Total wins is the tiebreaker when the winning percentage is the same. We should all end with the same amount of games except for Buffalo

Quote: TIE-BREAKER PROCEDURE
Ties in winning percentage, and thus for tournament, seeding positions shall be broken as follows:

1. Between TWO teams:
A. Head-to-head competition

B. Division Record (10 games)^

C. Winning percentage* vs. ranked conference teams (top to bottom, regardless of division, vs. common opponents regardless of the number of times played)

D. Coin flip

2. For MULTIPLE (3 or more) team ties:
E. Total won-lost record/winning percentage* of games played among the tied teams

F. Two (2)-team tie-breaker procedure goes into effect (refer to A)
[NOTE: Once a three-team tie has been reduced to two teams, the two-team tiebreaker will go into effect.]

^ - For the purpose of determining the Division champion. This tiebreaker is ONLY used for seeding purposes if the two teams in question are tied for the Division lead. (Teams will still be considered co-divisional champions)

* - Winning percentage is used instead of record because of situations where teams do not play each other the same number of times. Therefore, a team that is 1-0 (1.000) would win the tiebreaker over a team that is 1-1 (.500).

https://getsomemaction.com/sports/2015/3...50307.aspx
02-27-2022 12:50 PM
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OSUFALCON Offline
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Post: #45
RE: KSU @ CMU
(02-27-2022 12:50 PM)Polish Hammer Wrote:  
(02-27-2022 10:28 AM)Muskrat Wrote:  
(02-27-2022 05:16 AM)dannyb73 Wrote:  
(02-27-2022 01:18 AM)axeme Wrote:  
(02-27-2022 12:46 AM)cschierh Wrote:  How could Buffalo jump us? Doesn’t the league go ny winning percentage? 15-5 is ,750.

14-5 is .737.

KSU would be a half game ahead of UB if both finish with 5 losses. If KSU and. UT win Tuesday, KSU would be 2nd by beating UB, 3rd by losing. The only way KSU’ could finish 4th is by losing both games next week.

The MAC is the ONLY conference in America (of the 31) that does not go by winning percentage. What I typed earlier is a fact. If they sweep us and have one less win, they will jump us.

(02-27-2022 09:57 AM)dannyb73 Wrote:  
(02-27-2022 07:42 AM)Muskrat Wrote:  Winning the MAC regular season title would be nice, but KSU doesn't control their own destiny. Getting a good seed is nice, too, but since most people only care about winning the conference tournament the bottom line is that SOMEONE will win three tough games and it will be the team that deserves it. I hope, of course, it is the Flashes but I would say it's a toss-up among five teams. That's the MAC.

Winning the MAC regular season and the #1 seed would guarantee an NIT bid. That is worth caring about should the 3 days in Cleveland not go our way.

Please provided me your source about winning percentage. I'm not doubting you, but the only thing I could find on the official MAC site refers to winning percentage being the determinant.
Total wins is the tiebreaker when the winning percentage is the same. We should all end with the same amount of games except for Buffalo

Quote: TIE-BREAKER PROCEDURE
Ties in winning percentage, and thus for tournament, seeding positions shall be broken as follows:

1. Between TWO teams:
A. Head-to-head competition

B. Division Record (10 games)^

C. Winning percentage* vs. ranked conference teams (top to bottom, regardless of division, vs. common opponents regardless of the number of times played)

D. Coin flip

2. For MULTIPLE (3 or more) team ties:
E. Total won-lost record/winning percentage* of games played among the tied teams

F. Two (2)-team tie-breaker procedure goes into effect (refer to A)
[NOTE: Once a three-team tie has been reduced to two teams, the two-team tiebreaker will go into effect.]

^ - For the purpose of determining the Division champion. This tiebreaker is ONLY used for seeding purposes if the two teams in question are tied for the Division lead. (Teams will still be considered co-divisional champions)

* - Winning percentage is used instead of record because of situations where teams do not play each other the same number of times. Therefore, a team that is 1-0 (1.000) would win the tiebreaker over a team that is 1-1 (.500).

https://getsomemaction.com/sports/2015/3...50307.aspx

What happen to J. Hamilton? He certainly will be needed against Buffalo and in the tournament.
(This post was last modified: 02-27-2022 01:20 PM by OSUFALCON.)
02-27-2022 01:00 PM
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Muskrat Offline
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Post: #46
RE: KSU @ CMU
OSUFalcon, a pulled groin muscle. He is day to day.
02-27-2022 02:25 PM
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fallsdog Offline
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Post: #47
RE: KSU @ CMU
Aren’t we all
02-27-2022 05:11 PM
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Muskrat Offline
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Post: #48
RE: KSU @ CMU
(02-27-2022 05:11 PM)fallsdog Wrote:  Aren’t we all

I know that I definitely am.
02-27-2022 05:47 PM
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anti-zip Offline
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Post: #49
RE: KSU @ CMU
(02-26-2022 11:39 PM)dannyb73 Wrote:  Also, from the weird category, if UB sweeps us and we finish 15-5 in conference and they finish 14-5, they will jump us in the standings for the conf. tourney seeding.

Not understanding on this. What is is the rule that would put them ahead of us in this scenario?
02-27-2022 05:56 PM
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Muskrat Offline
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Post: #50
RE: KSU @ CMU
(02-27-2022 05:56 PM)anti-zip Wrote:  
(02-26-2022 11:39 PM)dannyb73 Wrote:  Also, from the weird category, if UB sweeps us and we finish 15-5 in conference and they finish 14-5, they will jump us in the standings for the conf. tourney seeding.

Not understanding on this. What is is the rule that would put them ahead of us in this scenario?

Agree, anti-zip. The first line of the MAC tie-breaker rules states:
TIE-BREAKER PROCEDURE
Ties in winning percentage, and thus for tournament, seeding positions shall be broken as follows:

So, it sure sounds to me that tie-breaker procedures come into play ONLY if teams have the same winning percentage.
02-27-2022 06:15 PM
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Post: #51
RE: KSU @ CMU
They might have a new set of rules because of COVID and uneven schedules. Probably not posted (just like they keep the scoring structure on the Jacoby and Reese Cups secret). Playing devils advocate here’s the logic. Buffalo at 14-5 is behind Kent only because COVID prevented them from playing a game. Not their fault so since they are tied in the loss column and clearly would have won the tie break (beating Kent twice) had they won that game what the hell let’s give it to them. I don’t agree but I can see some twisted logic that leads to that conclusion.
02-27-2022 08:07 PM
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dannyb73 Offline
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Post: #52
RE: KSU @ CMU
(02-27-2022 10:28 AM)Muskrat Wrote:  
(02-27-2022 05:16 AM)dannyb73 Wrote:  
(02-27-2022 01:18 AM)axeme Wrote:  
(02-27-2022 12:46 AM)cschierh Wrote:  How could Buffalo jump us? Doesn’t the league go ny winning percentage? 15-5 is ,750.

14-5 is .737.

KSU would be a half game ahead of UB if both finish with 5 losses. If KSU and. UT win Tuesday, KSU would be 2nd by beating UB, 3rd by losing. The only way KSU’ could finish 4th is by losing both games next week.

The MAC is the ONLY conference in America (of the 31) that does not go by winning percentage. What I typed earlier is a fact. If they sweep us and have one less win, they will jump us.

(02-27-2022 09:57 AM)dannyb73 Wrote:  
(02-27-2022 07:42 AM)Muskrat Wrote:  Winning the MAC regular season title would be nice, but KSU doesn't control their own destiny. Getting a good seed is nice, too, but since most people only care about winning the conference tournament the bottom line is that SOMEONE will win three tough games and it will be the team that deserves it. I hope, of course, it is the Flashes but I would say it's a toss-up among five teams. That's the MAC.

Winning the MAC regular season and the #1 seed would guarantee an NIT bid. That is worth caring about should the 3 days in Cleveland not go our way.

Please provided me your source about winning percentage. I'm not doubting you, but the only thing I could find on the official MAC site refers to winning percentage being the determinant.

My source was a text from Sendy last night. In a 3-way tie, we are the #1 seed. If UB sweeps us and finishes with the same number of losses they will jump us in the standings.
(This post was last modified: 02-27-2022 10:01 PM by dannyb73.)
02-27-2022 09:59 PM
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axeme Offline
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Post: #53
RE: KSU @ CMU
(02-27-2022 08:07 PM)burden Wrote:  They might have a new set of rules because of COVID and uneven schedules. Probably not posted (just like they keep the scoring structure on the Jacoby and Reese Cups secret). Playing devils advocate here’s the logic. Buffalo at 14-5 is behind Kent only because COVID prevented them from playing a game. Not their fault so since they are tied in the loss column and clearly would have won the tie break (beating Kent twice) had they won that game what the hell let’s give it to them. I don’t agree but I can see some twisted logic that leads to that conclusion.

That is insane. A team has won more games and has a higher winning percentage, and you give the edge to the team a half game back with fewer wins and a worse win %? In what world does that make any sense?
It’s not like it was impossible to make up that game with CMU. It was just inconvenient. The two schools could have insisted on playing. They had open dates. Hell, CMU is playing at Akron Tuesday, why not make the trip from there to Buffalo and play Wednesday or Thursday? Playing three games in four days is not that outrageous. We’re doing it so we can play 3 games in three days next week. The teams that played their full conference schedule shouldn’t be punished for it.
02-27-2022 10:06 PM
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dannyb73 Offline
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Post: #54
RE: KSU @ CMU
(02-27-2022 10:06 PM)axeme Wrote:  
(02-27-2022 08:07 PM)burden Wrote:  They might have a new set of rules because of COVID and uneven schedules. Probably not posted (just like they keep the scoring structure on the Jacoby and Reese Cups secret). Playing devils advocate here’s the logic. Buffalo at 14-5 is behind Kent only because COVID prevented them from playing a game. Not their fault so since they are tied in the loss column and clearly would have won the tie break (beating Kent twice) had they won that game what the hell let’s give it to them. I don’t agree but I can see some twisted logic that leads to that conclusion.

That is insane. A team has won more games and has a higher winning percentage, and you give the edge to the team a half game back with fewer wins and a worse win %? In what world does that make any sense?
It’s not like it was impossible to make up that game with CMU. It was just inconvenient. The two schools could have insisted on playing. They had open dates. Hell, CMU is playing at Akron Tuesday, why not make the trip from there to Buffalo and play Wednesday or Thursday? Playing three games in four days is not that outrageous. We’re doing it so we can play 3 games in three days next week. The teams that played their full conference schedule shouldn’t be punished for it.

Like I said, THE MAC IS THE ONLY CONFERENCE IN AMERICA NOT USING WINNING PERCENTAGE WHEN IT COMES TO SETTLING SEEDING FOR TEAMS THAT COULDN'T PLAY ALL THEIR GAMES. Just shows the MAC commissioner and his cronies are the idiots.
(This post was last modified: 02-27-2022 10:22 PM by dannyb73.)
02-27-2022 10:21 PM
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Muskrat Offline
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Post: #55
RE: KSU @ CMU
So, in effect, based upon what Sendy said via text is that the MAC changed the criterion for seeding from winning percentage to number of losses, without updating the "tie breaker" procedure on its website. Right?
02-28-2022 07:32 AM
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dannyb73 Offline
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Post: #56
RE: KSU @ CMU
(02-28-2022 07:32 AM)Muskrat Wrote:  So, in effect, based upon what Sendy said via text is that the MAC changed the criterion for seeding from winning percentage to number of losses, without updating the "tie breaker" procedure on its website. Right?

All he did was clarify for me. We win the 3-way tie and fall below UB if they sweep us. He clearly didn't say any of the other things.
(This post was last modified: 02-28-2022 08:07 AM by dannyb73.)
02-28-2022 08:05 AM
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Polish Hammer Offline
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Post: #57
RE: KSU @ CMU
(02-28-2022 07:32 AM)Muskrat Wrote:  So, in effect, based upon what Sendy said via text is that the MAC changed the criterion for seeding from winning percentage to number of losses, without updating the "tie breaker" procedure on its website. Right?
Since Toledo, KSU and Ohio will have played the same amount of games the tiebreaker system will revert to that winning % formula and subsequent tiebreaker system. We have the tiebreakers over Ohio and Toledo so all we can do is take care of business on our own end and let the chips fall where they may. Let’s just blow through NIU and worry about that afterwards. But if we go 1-1 and lose to Buffalo we’ll end up 15-5 to their 15-4 with two wins over us, should they not get the higher seed in such case? If we go 2-0 we’re 16-4, and they’re at best 14-5 and it doesn’t matter.
02-28-2022 08:07 AM
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Muskrat Offline
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Post: #58
RE: KSU @ CMU
Right. Let the chips fall where they may. We will know who the seeds are in a mere 4 1/2 days. If KSU can't beat an inferior NIU team, even though it is at their place, and a Buffalo team at home, they will not have earned a top 3 seed. And no matter what teams are in are the tournament and where they are seeded, the MAC tournament winner will be whichever team is able to take care of business three straight times.
02-28-2022 09:47 AM
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fallsdog Offline
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Post: #59
RE: KSU @ CMU
Discussing it is much more fun, however.
02-28-2022 10:08 AM
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Post: #60
RE: KSU @ CMU
Of course we were a 6 seed in our last championship bid.
02-28-2022 11:09 AM
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