(02-21-2022 11:03 AM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  

(02-21-2022 09:44 AM)Dynamos Wrote:  I wonder what our record would be if you gave Cal our opening day roster

We might have 2-3 losses, if that.

I don’t think people truly grasp how bad a coach has to be to have this type of season with this type of roster

(02-21-2022 01:34 PM)Dynamos Wrote:  

(02-21-2022 11:03 AM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  

(02-21-2022 09:44 AM)Dynamos Wrote:  I wonder what our record would be if you gave Cal our opening day roster

We might have 2-3 losses, if that.

I don’t think people truly grasp how bad a coach has to be to have this type of season with this type of roster

I think that is ridiculously unfair and typical of the garbage that is spewed here daily. John Calipari had been coaching college BB for 34 years, Penny is in his 4th season. Its flat out stupid to hold Penny to that standard.

And I also saw that 30+ year coach struggle and go 9-16 with a a lot of highly touted recruits last year. I also saw him struggle to get the tigers into the NCAA several times and struggle bad to go much of anywhere when he did for many years here.

Cal would have had his issues and struggles with this team, Covid, the injuries and the inner drama this year. He probably would have won a few more games due to his experience, but it still would have been a difficult season. We saw plenty of that during his run here before the Laurenberg guys got here.

4th year rookie head coach

(02-21-2022 10:58 AM)msu35 Wrote:  

(02-20-2022 11:20 PM)tiger1016 Wrote:  

(02-20-2022 10:58 PM)msu35 Wrote:  

(02-20-2022 10:46 PM)tiger1016 Wrote:  

(02-20-2022 10:36 PM)msu35 Wrote:  I never said that coaching decisions didn't contribute to this loss, in fact I've clearly stated the exact opposite. If an overly simplistic and short-sighted analysis such as "this loss is 100% on Penny's insane substitution patterns" satisfies you, I'm afraid you're simply incapable of seeing the other factors that impacted the game.

That’s your opinion and you are incapable of considering others’ viewpoints.

It is the major reason IMO. Keep messing with substitution patterns and play kids like MD that are undeserving of mins and it doesn’t take a lot for a game to get away against solid teams. We let SMU get comfortable when the subs came in after barely 4 mins. This is a pattern Penny has to break at some point if the Tigers ever wanna make a run.
Officiating didn’t make a huge impact IMO also evidenced by stats that I pointed out earlier.

Do you realize how absurd that statement is? I not only considered your viewpoint, I actually agree with much of it, but it doesn't tell the complete story. It is actually you who is incapable. If an incomplete and short-sighted assessment of the game satisfies you, it is what it is and there is no sense trying to discuss it any further.

Totally agree
No sense discussing it since we’ll agree to disagree. Officiating didn’t significantly impact this game…if you can’t see that, then there’s nothing to discuss. Stop with the silly substitution patterns.

You seem oddly fixated on the "officiating" angle. It did impact the game and to state that it had no impact is absolutely crazy. There were multiple factors that lead to this loss, and if you can't see it, you really have no credibility. It certainly wasn't solely the blame of substitutions.

You brought up officiating…SMH
I agree with OP it was the substitutions. What’s your deal with calling people delusional and not credible. Get off your high horse.

(02-21-2022 01:10 PM)TigerBill Wrote:  

(02-21-2022 12:56 PM)msu35 Wrote:  

(02-21-2022 12:48 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  Think of it like this...

If it rains for days on end and the Mississippi River floods Memphis tremendously you would look silly yelling at the guy that threw a cup of water into the flood waters and claiming he contributed to the devastation.

Ya, I guess technically it "contributed" but in reality it really had nothing to do with it. That is what we have here. Did the refs have some contribution. I guess possibly but did it actually contribute to us losing so badly, no not really.

Think of it like this. Yeah, I made a comment about officiating hurting us. Then a slew of posters with poor reading comprehension fixated on that one aspect of my opinion to the exclusion of everything else. Sure, I mentioned officiating, but it wasn't the only point I made about why we lost, and comes across as silly.

Starting a thread and citing the loss to be "100% on Penny's insane substitution patterns" comes across as simplistic and inaccurate, which was my point from the beginning. For a more accurate representation of why I think we lost, it's earlier in this thread where I stated:

Quote:Tough loss. Utterly shocked by some of the coaching decisions. Players we usually depend on were off. Throw in some of the worst officiating I've seen, and here we are. Thankfully we added a few points at the end to keep it under 20.

Now we understand the depth of your understanding of leadership and its application in a team setting. Officiating should never even have been mentioned, since poor officiating should be a given to be overcome, particularly on the road. Bringing it up was pointless and diversionary from the actual cause of the Tigers giving up.

But of course, having no real leg to stand on, you then revert to the same tired ad hominem attacks that always accompany serious efforts to examine the cause for such a disaster.

He’s a simple minded individual that can’t make his point without ad hominem attacks. I held off on calling him anything until now.

(02-21-2022 01:52 PM)tiger1016 Wrote:  You brought up officiating…SMH
I agree with OP it was the substitutions. What’s your deal with calling people delusional and not credible. Get off your high horse.

Yes, I did bring up officiating as being one of many factors impacting the game. Fixating on a single point that I made with tunnel-vision tenacity perfectly mirrors the fact that you can only attribute one aspect of the team to the loss. Simplistic and short-sighted, but I expect no less at this stage.

(02-21-2022 01:45 PM)Dynamos Wrote:  4th year rookie head coach

I can't think of any coach with only four years total experience at the collegiate level (including stints as an assistant) who could do any better. There have been challenges and the growing pains have been ugly, but that doesn't mean Penny won't eventually get this program firing on all cylinders. I'm of the opinion that it's worth being patient for another year or two before throwing in the towel.

(02-21-2022 01:57 PM)msu35 Wrote:  

(02-21-2022 01:52 PM)tiger1016 Wrote:  You brought up officiating…SMH
I agree with OP it was the substitutions. What’s your deal with calling people delusional and not credible. Get off your high horse.

Yes, I did bring up officiating as being one of many factors impacting the game. Fixating on a single point that I made with tunnel-vision tenacity perfectly mirrors the fact that you can only attribute one aspect of the team to the loss. Simplistic and short-sighted, but I expect no less at this stage.

Your reply to the original post:

“Some of the substitutions were a negative factor, that's a fact. To ignore the impossibly biased and fraudulent officiating is ridiculous. If you think substitutions were the only factor to the loss, you obviously didn't watch the game.”

No one gives an ish if you added other points to cover your hiney later. You brought up officiating as one of the primary reasons and called it biased and fraudulent. Stats cited proved otherwise and all you can do now is cite additional reasons and attack posters. Get off your high horse man. It’s pathetic seeing someone backtrack and have no recourse than to attack them. Shameful - obviously everyone expects that from you now.

(02-21-2022 02:01 PM)tiger1016 Wrote:  

(02-21-2022 01:57 PM)msu35 Wrote:  

(02-21-2022 01:52 PM)tiger1016 Wrote:  You brought up officiating…SMH
I agree with OP it was the substitutions. What’s your deal with calling people delusional and not credible. Get off your high horse.

Yes, I did bring up officiating as being one of many factors impacting the game. Fixating on a single point that I made with tunnel-vision tenacity perfectly mirrors the fact that you can only attribute one aspect of the team to the loss. Simplistic and short-sighted, but I expect no less at this stage.

Your reply to the original post:

“Some of the substitutions were a negative factor, that's a fact. To ignore the impossibly biased and fraudulent officiating is ridiculous. If you think substitutions were the only factor to the loss, you obviously didn't watch the game.”

No one gives an ish if you added other points to cover your hiney later. You brought up officiating as one of the primary reasons and called it biased and fraudulent. Stats cited proved otherwise and all you can do now is cite additional reasons and attack posters. Get off your high horse man. It’s pathetic seeing someone backtrack and have no recourse than to attack them. Shameful - obviously everyone expects that from you now.

I added more early in the thread because it was obvious some people couldn't see the forest for the trees. That the crux of my point was that it wasn't solely the substitutions that lost us the game. In fact, what I added here for clarity after the post you quoted, was posted earlier in another thread and wasn't some new revelation.

What's pathetic is your blind attribution of the loss solely to substitutions and your inability to grasp the reality that my opinion is and has been that officiating played a role among other factors. If you can't accept that, I can't help you. It won't change your Romper Room take that only the substitution patterns impacted the game. Such is life.

At this point, it's clear that you're triggered. If nothing else, I got a laugh out of it.

(02-21-2022 02:18 PM)msu35 Wrote:  

(02-21-2022 02:01 PM)tiger1016 Wrote:  

(02-21-2022 01:57 PM)msu35 Wrote:  

(02-21-2022 01:52 PM)tiger1016 Wrote:  You brought up officiating…SMH
I agree with OP it was the substitutions. What’s your deal with calling people delusional and not credible. Get off your high horse.

Yes, I did bring up officiating as being one of many factors impacting the game. Fixating on a single point that I made with tunnel-vision tenacity perfectly mirrors the fact that you can only attribute one aspect of the team to the loss. Simplistic and short-sighted, but I expect no less at this stage.

Your reply to the original post:

“Some of the substitutions were a negative factor, that's a fact. To ignore the impossibly biased and fraudulent officiating is ridiculous. If you think substitutions were the only factor to the loss, you obviously didn't watch the game.”

No one gives an ish if you added other points to cover your hiney later. You brought up officiating as one of the primary reasons and called it biased and fraudulent. Stats cited proved otherwise and all you can do now is cite additional reasons and attack posters. Get off your high horse man. It’s pathetic seeing someone backtrack and have no recourse than to attack them. Shameful - obviously everyone expects that from you now.

I added more early in the thread because it was obvious some people couldn't see the forest for the trees. That the crux of my point was that it wasn't solely the substitutions that lost us the game. In fact, what I added here for clarity after the post you quoted, was posted earlier in another thread and wasn't some new revelation.

What's pathetic is your blind attribution of the loss solely to substitutions and your inability to grasp the reality that my opinion is and has been that officiating played a role among other factors. If you can't accept that, I can't help you. It won't change your Romper Room take that only the substitution patterns impacted the game. Such is life.

At this point, it's clear that you're triggered. If nothing else, I got a laugh out of it.

LOL
Whatever this odd one says

Someone wise once said it’s best to ignore idiots (like this moron) than to stoop to their level.

(02-21-2022 02:20 PM)tiger1016 Wrote:  LOL
Whatever this odd one says

Someone wise once said it’s best to ignore idiots (like this moron) than to stoop to their level.

(02-21-2022 01:43 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(02-21-2022 01:34 PM)Dynamos Wrote:  

(02-21-2022 11:03 AM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  

(02-21-2022 09:44 AM)Dynamos Wrote:  I wonder what our record would be if you gave Cal our opening day roster

We might have 2-3 losses, if that.

I don’t think people truly grasp how bad a coach has to be to have this type of season with this type of roster

I think that is ridiculously unfair and typical of the garbage that is spewed here daily. John Calipari had been coaching college BB for 34 years, Penny is in his 4th season. Its flat out stupid to hold Penny to that standard.

And I also saw that 30+ year coach struggle and go 9-16 with a a lot of highly touted recruits last year. I also saw him struggle to get the tigers into the NCAA several times and struggle bad to go much of anywhere when he did for many years here.

Cal would have had his issues and struggles with this team, Covid, the injuries and the inner drama this year. He probably would have won a few more games due to his experience, but it still would have been a difficult season. We saw plenty of that during his run here before the Laurenberg guys got here.

No, it is not. He is paid like a top tier coach and is coaching at a top tier basketball program. You take the job, you take the money then you take the standards... And I assure you Penny absolutely holds himself to that standard. And if he does not then he should be fired today.

(02-21-2022 12:56 PM)msu35 Wrote:  

(02-21-2022 12:48 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  Think of it like this...

If it rains for days on end and the Mississippi River floods Memphis tremendously you would look silly yelling at the guy that threw a cup of water into the flood waters and claiming he contributed to the devastation.

Ya, I guess technically it "contributed" but in reality it really had nothing to do with it. That is what we have here. Did the refs have some contribution. I guess possibly but did it actually contribute to us losing so badly, no not really.

Think of it like this. Yeah, I made a comment about officiating hurting us. Then a slew of posters with poor reading comprehension fixated on that one aspect of my opinion to the exclusion of everything else. Sure, I mentioned officiating, but it wasn't the only point I made about why we lost, and comes across as silly.

Starting a thread and citing the loss to be "100% on Penny's insane substitution patterns" comes across as simplistic and inaccurate, which was my point from the beginning. For a more accurate representation of why I think we lost, it's earlier in this thread where I stated:

Quote:Tough loss. Utterly shocked by some of the coaching decisions. Players we usually depend on were off. Throw in some of the worst officiating I've seen, and here we are. Thankfully we added a few points at the end to keep it under 20.

I get what you are saying... But again, cup of water meet flood... Blaming the refs as any sort of actual excuse is as nonsensical as taking 100% in the thread title to literally mean 100%...

(02-21-2022 02:28 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(02-21-2022 12:56 PM)msu35 Wrote:  

(02-21-2022 12:48 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  Think of it like this...

If it rains for days on end and the Mississippi River floods Memphis tremendously you would look silly yelling at the guy that threw a cup of water into the flood waters and claiming he contributed to the devastation.

Ya, I guess technically it "contributed" but in reality it really had nothing to do with it. That is what we have here. Did the refs have some contribution. I guess possibly but did it actually contribute to us losing so badly, no not really.

Think of it like this. Yeah, I made a comment about officiating hurting us. Then a slew of posters with poor reading comprehension fixated on that one aspect of my opinion to the exclusion of everything else. Sure, I mentioned officiating, but it wasn't the only point I made about why we lost, and comes across as silly.

Starting a thread and citing the loss to be "100% on Penny's insane substitution patterns" comes across as simplistic and inaccurate, which was my point from the beginning. For a more accurate representation of why I think we lost, it's earlier in this thread where I stated:

Quote:Tough loss. Utterly shocked by some of the coaching decisions. Players we usually depend on were off. Throw in some of the worst officiating I've seen, and here we are. Thankfully we added a few points at the end to keep it under 20.

I get what you are saying... But again, cup of water meet flood... Blaming the refs as any sort of actual excuse is as nonsensical as taking 100% in the thread title to literally mean 100%...

Why did you have to explain that to the kid? It has been fun going back and forth with someone that has a comprehension level of a 2nd grader.

(02-21-2022 02:28 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(02-21-2022 12:56 PM)msu35 Wrote:  

(02-21-2022 12:48 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  Think of it like this...

If it rains for days on end and the Mississippi River floods Memphis tremendously you would look silly yelling at the guy that threw a cup of water into the flood waters and claiming he contributed to the devastation.

Ya, I guess technically it "contributed" but in reality it really had nothing to do with it. That is what we have here. Did the refs have some contribution. I guess possibly but did it actually contribute to us losing so badly, no not really.

Think of it like this. Yeah, I made a comment about officiating hurting us. Then a slew of posters with poor reading comprehension fixated on that one aspect of my opinion to the exclusion of everything else. Sure, I mentioned officiating, but it wasn't the only point I made about why we lost, and comes across as silly.

Starting a thread and citing the loss to be "100% on Penny's insane substitution patterns" comes across as simplistic and inaccurate, which was my point from the beginning. For a more accurate representation of why I think we lost, it's earlier in this thread where I stated:

Quote:Tough loss. Utterly shocked by some of the coaching decisions. Players we usually depend on were off. Throw in some of the worst officiating I've seen, and here we are. Thankfully we added a few points at the end to keep it under 20.

I get what you are saying... But again, cup of water meet flood... Blaming the refs as any sort of actual excuse is as nonsensical as taking 100% in the thread title to literally mean 100%...

Take off your blinders and you might get it right once in a while.

(02-20-2022 07:06 PM)TigerBill Wrote:  

(02-20-2022 06:55 PM)selleg1 Wrote:  He substituted Duren and a few others around the 16:45 mark of the first half. They hadn’t even broken into a good sweat by then. It was less than a year ago they were playing two or three AAU games in one day.

After which SMU broke our backs when the subs were in.

The end of the first half was killer. The combination of MD and Harris put us in a bad spot. We went from up 7 to down 5 in a matter on minutes. It’s hard to say that completely spoiled the game for us b/c we came back and tied the game early in the 2nd half. To me it’s just a microcosm of how the subs repeatedly kill momentum and/or blow up in our face.

LQ was on fire and we went away from him. There was a 3 possession stretch where MD either missed a shot/turned it over and then came down and was a ghost on defense. Pretty sure at the end of the half Davis hit 2 threes over Harris like he wasn’t even there.

(02-21-2022 02:38 PM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  

(02-20-2022 07:06 PM)TigerBill Wrote:  

(02-20-2022 06:55 PM)selleg1 Wrote:  He substituted Duren and a few others around the 16:45 mark of the first half. They hadn’t even broken into a good sweat by then. It was less than a year ago they were playing two or three AAU games in one day.

After which SMU broke our backs when the subs were in.

The end of the first half was killer. The combination of MD and Harris put us in a bad spot. We went from up 7 to down 5 in a matter on minutes. It’s hard to say that completely spoiled the game for us b/c we came back and tied the game early in the 2nd half. To me it’s just a microcosm of how the subs repeatedly kill momentum and/or blow up in our face.

LQ was on fire and we went away from him. There was a 3 possession stretch where MD either missed a shot/turned it over and then came down and was a ghost on defense. Pretty sure at the end of the half Davis hit 2 threes over Harris like he wasn’t even there.

The score was 43-41 SMU early in 2nd half when Penny substituted out Q and Duren with Jaden and MD after we had fought back from a deficit. SMU went on a 13-0 run and the game was practically over. Our momentum was halted in the first half with the quick subs and in the 2nd half, this sloppy substitution basically help put the game away.

(02-21-2022 01:34 PM)Dynamos Wrote:  

(02-21-2022 11:03 AM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  

(02-21-2022 09:44 AM)Dynamos Wrote:  I wonder what our record would be if you gave Cal our opening day roster

We might have 2-3 losses, if that.

I don’t think people truly grasp how bad a coach has to be to have this type of season with this type of roster

Yep.

(02-21-2022 02:46 PM)tiger1016 Wrote:  

(02-21-2022 02:38 PM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  

(02-20-2022 07:06 PM)TigerBill Wrote:  

(02-20-2022 06:55 PM)selleg1 Wrote:  He substituted Duren and a few others around the 16:45 mark of the first half. They hadn’t even broken into a good sweat by then. It was less than a year ago they were playing two or three AAU games in one day.

After which SMU broke our backs when the subs were in.

The end of the first half was killer. The combination of MD and Harris put us in a bad spot. We went from up 7 to down 5 in a matter on minutes. It’s hard to say that completely spoiled the game for us b/c we came back and tied the game early in the 2nd half. To me it’s just a microcosm of how the subs repeatedly kill momentum and/or blow up in our face.

LQ was on fire and we went away from him. There was a 3 possession stretch where MD either missed a shot/turned it over and then came down and was a ghost on defense. Pretty sure at the end of the half Davis hit 2 threes over Harris like he wasn’t even there.

The score was 43-41 SMU early in 2nd half when Penny substituted out Q and Duren with Jaden and MD after we had fought back from a deficit. SMU went on a 13-0 run and the game was practically over. Our momentum was halted in the first half with the quick subs and in the 2nd half, this sloppy substitution basically help put the game away.

I know sometimes guys get in foul trouble and/or get tired, but too often it feels like a rec league substitution pattern. A Lo being in foul trouble definitely caused some problems, but I’d almost never play MD. I know he’s trying to wear other teams out by playing so many guys, but clearly that didn’t work against SMU.

(02-21-2022 02:27 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(02-21-2022 01:43 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(02-21-2022 01:34 PM)Dynamos Wrote:  

(02-21-2022 11:03 AM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  

(02-21-2022 09:44 AM)Dynamos Wrote:  I wonder what our record would be if you gave Cal our opening day roster

We might have 2-3 losses, if that.

I don’t think people truly grasp how bad a coach has to be to have this type of season with this type of roster

I think that is ridiculously unfair and typical of the garbage that is spewed here daily. John Calipari had been coaching college BB for 34 years, Penny is in his 4th season. Its flat out stupid to hold Penny to that standard.

And I also saw that 30+ year coach struggle and go 9-16 with a a lot of highly touted recruits last year. I also saw him struggle to get the tigers into the NCAA several times and struggle bad to go much of anywhere when he did for many years here.

Cal would have had his issues and struggles with this team, Covid, the injuries and the inner drama this year. He probably would have won a few more games due to his experience, but it still would have been a difficult season. We saw plenty of that during his run here before the Laurenberg guys got here.

No, it is not. He is paid like a top tier coach and is coaching at a top tier basketball program. You take the job, you take the money then you take the standards... And I assure you Penny absolutely holds himself to that standard. And if he does not then he should be fired today.

NO, a 4th year coach should not be held to the stand of a 34 year coach at the top of the profession. That is beyond stupid on every level.

Penny is a young coach still learning his craft. Just because he makes a lot of money does not change that. That is absurd.

Penny has his flaws but his teams tend to improve a lot down the stretch and play their best BB in March. Even after such a disappointing and bad year the team has fought back and on the doorstep of making the NCAA's. That is a pretty impressive turnaround after being 9-8.

They got their butts kicked Sunday, so lets see how they respond.