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Why do the SB3 want to leave now?
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Sosodude00 Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Why do the SB3 want to leave now?
(02-17-2022 01:22 AM)Retroview1955 Wrote:  I think the universities are aware of the cost and are prepared to pay. The damages aren't going to be as high as everyone would have you believe here. I understand this is breach of contract but let's be real here for a second people. This is Conference USA. Marshall is always consistently good. The other two are really inconsistent with one of them nearly losing to an FCS team one week and then beating the number 10 team in the country a few weeks later with a second string quarterback. This isn't the SEC with Georgia, Alabama, and Texas A&M are leaving. If we were in that situation I could understand actual damage being done because those are the three best teams in the conference If you follow what I'm saying. The sbc3 leaving early will leave the league with 11 teams which is plenty of teams to make a schedule. I could understand the damages being much greater if they were leaving and five teams remain. That last part that I mentioned is probably the main reason why Judy and her clan didn't want to negotiate when the sbc3 told them on multiple occasions they was leaving. They know they can't claim too much on damages because there's plenty of teams left over.
I think probably the biggest reason why the sbc3 are prepared to leave is due to the money they'll save on traveling expenses and the greater contract payouts. They'll make more money too by all the schools especially on the east side being so close to each other. I'm sure there's other reasons too. I personally don't see the big deal in staying for another year. Everybody was talking about how ODU desn't bring much value to the conference but now everybody's crying and calling foul because we're leaving for better pastures.

(02-17-2022 07:52 AM)ODUODUODU Wrote:  What else needs to be said....

https://conferenceusa.com/news/2022/2/16...ships.aspx

(02-17-2022 09:41 AM)FIU4Ever Wrote:  
(02-17-2022 09:32 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(02-17-2022 08:55 AM)SICemDAWGS! Wrote:  
(02-17-2022 01:30 AM)GreenFreakUAB Wrote:  ...ultimately, I figure after they crunched the numbers, they found that getting the SBC - ESPN deal rolling early will offset any potential 'penalties' for early departure...

...with that, I am sure they have documented the 'past departures' by other teams, and may well have enough data to show that the average 'penalties' paid by those previous institutions were not all that much in the grand scheme (I've gleaned that from other messages, so... I'm sure it is infallible 03-drunk )

So, if CUSA now comes in and wants, say $5 mill apiece as 'penalties', it can be challenged with the past totals, and I reckon they could end up in court if no resolution is made...

It would be cool if someone had the totals for each CUSA-departed school's 'exit/penalty' fees over the conference's history... THAT average value might be the whole key to the SBC-3's confidence in early departure without major hardships financially...

What was paid by previously departed schools a decade plus ago should have no bearing on what is paid this go around. Once all of the CUSA 3.0 members became full members the remnant from CUSA 2.0 authored new bylaws for exiting to make it harder to leave early and to mirror language used by other conferences to make penalties higher. The 70% of the total exit fee penalty paid by UCONN, or the 300% of the total exit fee penalty paid by WVU are the more applicable comparisons. You can't point to the 2012-2014 exits as your comps because Marshall and USM along with the other scorned by the AAC departures threw those rules away and said let's see someone get out of this without it hurting.

Yes, USM and Marshall were screwed over with how light the fees were from some of the AAC schools that left earlier. That should have no bearing on what they pay to get out of this contract.

Our exit fees are comparatively higher than those cases though based on actual value. We’re paying 2x distributions as just exit fees. UCONN paid about that after you include the negotiated penalty. Same with WVU (a bit higher in thier case). You’re saying we should pay 1.4-6 times what the conference pays us annually (which is the best measure of its value) on top of already relatively high exit fees. There’s no precedent for that and it’s way overvaluing the conference.

I think 14 months notice = 2 years distribution.
< 14 months notice is the hang up for both parties. Is it an additional 2x? .5x?


This is it in a nut shell. Both sides think it will be different depending on their point of view.

And C-USA "leadership" is a jerk face pony soldier,regardless how it plays out. Had to get that in.
02-17-2022 12:22 PM
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HerdZoned Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Why do the SB3 want to leave now?
(02-17-2022 01:30 AM)GreenFreakUAB Wrote:  ...ultimately, I figure after they crunched the numbers, they found that getting the SBC - ESPN deal rolling early will offset any potential 'penalties' for early departure...

...with that, I am sure they have documented the 'past departures' by other teams, and may well have enough data to show that the average 'penalties' paid by those previous institutions were not all that much in the grand scheme (I've gleaned that from other messages, so... I'm sure it is infallible 03-drunk )

So, if CUSA now comes in and wants, say $5 mill apiece as 'penalties', it can be challenged with the past totals, and I reckon they could end up in court if no resolution is made...

It would be cool if someone had the totals for each CUSA-departed school's 'exit/penalty' fees over the conference's history... THAT average value might be the whole key to the SBC-3's confidence in early departure without major hardships financially...

Louisville, Cincinnati, USF and TCU didn't pay a dime to CUSA. CUSA just let them walk free and clear

UCF, Memphis, Tulsa, Tulane, Houston, SMU and ECU paid a combined 6.9 million of the 21 million they owed (Aprox 900K of the 3 million owed for each school). Memphis didn't pay a dime out of pocket, instead they paid with their basketball credits, which should have run out this year or next.

This will definitely be brought to light when this goes to court or mediation.
02-17-2022 12:42 PM
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chuckk3 Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Why do the SB3 want to leave now?
(02-17-2022 12:42 PM)HerdZoned Wrote:  
(02-17-2022 01:30 AM)GreenFreakUAB Wrote:  ...ultimately, I figure after they crunched the numbers, they found that getting the SBC - ESPN deal rolling early will offset any potential 'penalties' for early departure...

...with that, I am sure they have documented the 'past departures' by other teams, and may well have enough data to show that the average 'penalties' paid by those previous institutions were not all that much in the grand scheme (I've gleaned that from other messages, so... I'm sure it is infallible 03-drunk )

So, if CUSA now comes in and wants, say $5 mill apiece as 'penalties', it can be challenged with the past totals, and I reckon they could end up in court if no resolution is made...

It would be cool if someone had the totals for each CUSA-departed school's 'exit/penalty' fees over the conference's history... THAT average value might be the whole key to the SBC-3's confidence in early departure without major hardships financially...

Louisville, Cincinnati, USF and TCU didn't pay a dime to CUSA. CUSA just let them walk free and clear

UCF, Memphis, Tulsa, Tulane, Houston, SMU and ECU paid a combined 6.9 million of the 21 million they owed (Aprox 900K of the 3 million owed for each school). Memphis didn't pay a dime out of pocket, instead they paid with their basketball credits, which should have run out this year or next.

This will definitely be brought to light when this goes to court or mediation.

Should be a compelling argument.
02-17-2022 01:00 PM
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Blue_Trombone Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Why do the SB3 want to leave now?
(02-17-2022 01:04 AM)rtist Wrote:  I understand that Marshall, Old Dominion, and Southern Miss want to leave C-USA at the end of the academic year. I understand that they would be in breach of contract if they were to leave at this time, leaving themselves open to a lawsuit by C-USA. My question is this: what do these three schools gain from leaving this year for the Sun Belt? Aren't the litigative costs of leaving early more costly than the potential media dollars these three would gain?

Seems to me that they would be better off joining next year and avoiding those departure costs, no?

Look around. Would you want to stay in this?
02-17-2022 01:02 PM
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SICemDAWGS! Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Why do the SB3 want to leave now?
(02-17-2022 12:42 PM)HerdZoned Wrote:  
(02-17-2022 01:30 AM)GreenFreakUAB Wrote:  ...ultimately, I figure after they crunched the numbers, they found that getting the SBC - ESPN deal rolling early will offset any potential 'penalties' for early departure...

...with that, I am sure they have documented the 'past departures' by other teams, and may well have enough data to show that the average 'penalties' paid by those previous institutions were not all that much in the grand scheme (I've gleaned that from other messages, so... I'm sure it is infallible 03-drunk )

So, if CUSA now comes in and wants, say $5 mill apiece as 'penalties', it can be challenged with the past totals, and I reckon they could end up in court if no resolution is made...

It would be cool if someone had the totals for each CUSA-departed school's 'exit/penalty' fees over the conference's history... THAT average value might be the whole key to the SBC-3's confidence in early departure without major hardships financially...

Louisville, Cincinnati, USF and TCU didn't pay a dime to CUSA. CUSA just let them walk free and clear

UCF, Memphis, Tulsa, Tulane, Houston, SMU and ECU paid a combined 6.9 million of the 21 million they owed (Aprox 900K of the 3 million owed for each school). Memphis didn't pay a dime out of pocket, instead they paid with their basketball credits, which should have run out this year or next.

This will definitely be brought to light when this goes to court or mediation.

The bolded is exactly why the bylaws were restructured and reaffirmed to make it more difficult and ensure the conference received every penny and would win any penalties moving forward. It absolutely sucks for USM and Marshall that those schools skated for pennies on the dollar that you were owed but never got. Those schools doing that and the subsequent changes are why your schools along with ODU will not have the same fortune.
02-17-2022 01:05 PM
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banker Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Why do the SB3 want to leave now?
The question really is, why would we want to stay and why would any of the other schools want us to?

What benefit does any remaining team get from us staying? The scheduling can be worked out.

It’s like getting a divorce but your wife wanting you to stay in the house with her another year - why? So you can fight everyday and hate each other more? If you’re worried about the house payment, we can make that, making us stay is just being petty.

It’s over, Becky. Just move on.
(This post was last modified: 02-17-2022 01:11 PM by banker.)
02-17-2022 01:09 PM
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rileylives Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Why do the SB3 want to leave now?
(02-17-2022 01:09 PM)banker Wrote:  The question really is, why would we want to stay and why would any of the other schools want us to?

What benefit does any remaining team get from us staying? The scheduling can be worked out.

It’s like getting a divorce but your wife wanting you to stay in the house with her another year - why? So you can fight everyday and hate each other more? If you’re worried about the house payment, we can make that, making us stay is just being petty.

It’s over, Becky. Just move on.

Because in this case, Becky (CUSA) WANTS THE HOUSE TO BURN DOWN WITH THE DIVORCE.
02-17-2022 01:15 PM
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Post: #28
RE: Why do the SB3 want to leave now?
(02-17-2022 01:15 PM)rileylives Wrote:  
(02-17-2022 01:09 PM)banker Wrote:  The question really is, why would we want to stay and why would any of the other schools want us to?

What benefit does any remaining team get from us staying? The scheduling can be worked out.

It’s like getting a divorce but your wife wanting you to stay in the house with her another year - why? So you can fight everyday and hate each other more? If you’re worried about the house payment, we can make that, making us stay is just being petty.

It’s over, Becky. Just move on.

Because in this case, Becky (CUSA) WANTS THE HOUSE TO BURN DOWN WITH THE DIVORCE.

How exactly is the house "going to burn down"?

This divorce metaphor is pretty stupid.
02-17-2022 01:18 PM
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rileylives Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Why do the SB3 want to leave now?
(02-17-2022 01:18 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  
(02-17-2022 01:15 PM)rileylives Wrote:  
(02-17-2022 01:09 PM)banker Wrote:  The question really is, why would we want to stay and why would any of the other schools want us to?

What benefit does any remaining team get from us staying? The scheduling can be worked out.

It’s like getting a divorce but your wife wanting you to stay in the house with her another year - why? So you can fight everyday and hate each other more? If you’re worried about the house payment, we can make that, making us stay is just being petty.

It’s over, Becky. Just move on.

Because in this case, Becky (CUSA) WANTS THE HOUSE TO BURN DOWN WITH THE DIVORCE.

How exactly is the house "going to burn down"?

This divorce metaphor is pretty stupid.

It's just a joke man.
02-17-2022 01:59 PM
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inutech Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Why do the SB3 want to leave now?
(02-17-2022 01:18 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  
(02-17-2022 01:15 PM)rileylives Wrote:  
(02-17-2022 01:09 PM)banker Wrote:  The question really is, why would we want to stay and why would any of the other schools want us to?

What benefit does any remaining team get from us staying? The scheduling can be worked out.

It’s like getting a divorce but your wife wanting you to stay in the house with her another year - why? So you can fight everyday and hate each other more? If you’re worried about the house payment, we can make that, making us stay is just being petty.

It’s over, Becky. Just move on.

Because in this case, Becky (CUSA) WANTS THE HOUSE TO BURN DOWN WITH THE DIVORCE.

How exactly is the house "going to burn down"?

This divorce metaphor is pretty stupid.

Very.

We don't really live together. Schools aren't people, they don't have feelings.

It's like a divorce only in that it's a legal arrangement that is coming to an end.

Why would I care if your AD is mad at the conference office? What will change in any game next year if y'all rip the conference patches off your uniforms and paint over them on your fields?
02-17-2022 02:01 PM
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MTPiKapp Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Why do the SB3 want to leave now?
(02-17-2022 02:01 PM)inutech Wrote:  
(02-17-2022 01:18 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  
(02-17-2022 01:15 PM)rileylives Wrote:  
(02-17-2022 01:09 PM)banker Wrote:  The question really is, why would we want to stay and why would any of the other schools want us to?

What benefit does any remaining team get from us staying? The scheduling can be worked out.

It’s like getting a divorce but your wife wanting you to stay in the house with her another year - why? So you can fight everyday and hate each other more? If you’re worried about the house payment, we can make that, making us stay is just being petty.

It’s over, Becky. Just move on.

Because in this case, Becky (CUSA) WANTS THE HOUSE TO BURN DOWN WITH THE DIVORCE.

How exactly is the house "going to burn down"?

This divorce metaphor is pretty stupid.

Very.

We don't really live together. Schools aren't people, they don't have feelings.

It's like a divorce only in that it's a legal arrangement that is coming to an end.

Why would I care if your AD is mad at the conference office? What will change in any game next year if y'all rip the conference patches off your uniforms and paint over them on your fields?

Not to mention there are three different factions, four if you count the inbound schools, and several different timelines across the different factions. Adding to that, the feelings of the alumni and fans don't necessarily reflect those of the actual decision makers and vice versa. Nevermind the high likelihood of lots of OOC play in multiple sports post "divorce".

I can say for certain though that all these different threads are most certainly needed and definitely helping matters...
02-17-2022 02:15 PM
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inutech Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Why do the SB3 want to leave now?
(02-17-2022 02:15 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  I can say for certain though that all these different threads are most certainly needed and definitely helping matters...

It helps make it feel "bigger" than it really is.

Occasionally amusing, though, which is nice.
02-17-2022 02:17 PM
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CrimsonPhantom Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Why do the SB3 want to leave now?
(02-17-2022 11:57 AM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  
(02-17-2022 07:52 AM)ODUODUODU Wrote:  What else needs to be said....

https://conferenceusa.com/news/2022/2/16...ships.aspx

At least this much...

https://sunbeltsports.org/news/2021/9/15...onsor.aspx

The WAC is also sponsored by Hercules Tires.
02-20-2022 04:00 PM
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THE NC Herd Fan Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Why do the SB3 want to leave now?
(02-17-2022 01:22 AM)Retroview1955 Wrote:  I think the universities are aware of the cost and are prepared to pay. The damages aren't going to be as high as everyone would have you believe here. I understand this is breach of contract but let's be real here for a second people. This is Conference USA. Marshall is always consistently good. The other two are really inconsistent with one of them nearly losing to an FCS team one week and then beating the number 10 team in the country a few weeks later with a second string quarterback. This isn't the SEC with Georgia, Alabama, and Texas A&M are leaving. If we were in that situation I could understand actual damage being done because those are the three best teams in the conference If you follow what I'm saying. The sbc3 leaving early will leave the league with 11 teams which is plenty of teams to make a schedule. I could understand the damages being much greater if they were leaving and five teams remain. That last part that I mentioned is probably the main reason why Judy and her clan didn't want to negotiate when the sbc3 told them on multiple occasions they was leaving. They know they can't claim too much on damages because there's plenty of teams left over.
I think probably the biggest reason why the sbc3 are prepared to leave is due to the money they'll save on traveling expenses and the greater contract payouts. They'll make more money too by all the schools especially on the east side being so close to each other. I'm sure there's other reasons too. I personally don't see the big deal in staying for another year. Everybody was talking about how ODU desn't bring much value to the conference but now everybody's crying and calling foul because we're leaving for better pastures.

As far as scheduling Marshall's early departure puts both Marshall and App St. scheduling in a minor bind since App @ Marshall was to be an OOC. Both schools now need an OOC preferably v a G5 team so I would say both are willing to play a CUSA team on that date.
02-20-2022 04:23 PM
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Reggie Favre Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Why do the SB3 want to leave now?
(02-17-2022 01:05 PM)SICemDAWGS! Wrote:  
(02-17-2022 12:42 PM)HerdZoned Wrote:  
(02-17-2022 01:30 AM)GreenFreakUAB Wrote:  ...ultimately, I figure after they crunched the numbers, they found that getting the SBC - ESPN deal rolling early will offset any potential 'penalties' for early departure...

...with that, I am sure they have documented the 'past departures' by other teams, and may well have enough data to show that the average 'penalties' paid by those previous institutions were not all that much in the grand scheme (I've gleaned that from other messages, so... I'm sure it is infallible 03-drunk )

So, if CUSA now comes in and wants, say $5 mill apiece as 'penalties', it can be challenged with the past totals, and I reckon they could end up in court if no resolution is made...

It would be cool if someone had the totals for each CUSA-departed school's 'exit/penalty' fees over the conference's history... THAT average value might be the whole key to the SBC-3's confidence in early departure without major hardships financially...

Louisville, Cincinnati, USF and TCU didn't pay a dime to CUSA. CUSA just let them walk free and clear

UCF, Memphis, Tulsa, Tulane, Houston, SMU and ECU paid a combined 6.9 million of the 21 million they owed (Aprox 900K of the 3 million owed for each school). Memphis didn't pay a dime out of pocket, instead they paid with their basketball credits, which should have run out this year or next.

This will definitely be brought to light when this goes to court or mediation.

The bolded is exactly why the bylaws were restructured and reaffirmed to make it more difficult and ensure the conference received every penny and would win any penalties moving forward. It absolutely sucks for USM and Marshall that those schools skated for pennies on the dollar that you were owed but never got. Those schools doing that and the subsequent changes are why your schools along with ODU will not have the same fortune.

Please do tell us what that "every penny" and "penalties" would be, based on that restructuring you referenced. We are all waiting.
02-20-2022 04:25 PM
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tanqtonic Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Why do the SB3 want to leave now?
(02-17-2022 10:10 AM)rileylives Wrote:  
(02-17-2022 09:41 AM)SICemDAWGS! Wrote:  
(02-17-2022 09:06 AM)rileylives Wrote:  
(02-17-2022 08:55 AM)SICemDAWGS! Wrote:  
(02-17-2022 01:30 AM)GreenFreakUAB Wrote:  ...ultimately, I figure after they crunched the numbers, they found that getting the SBC - ESPN deal rolling early will offset any potential 'penalties' for early departure...

...with that, I am sure they have documented the 'past departures' by other teams, and may well have enough data to show that the average 'penalties' paid by those previous institutions were not all that much in the grand scheme (I've gleaned that from other messages, so... I'm sure it is infallible 03-drunk )

So, if CUSA now comes in and wants, say $5 mill apiece as 'penalties', it can be challenged with the past totals, and I reckon they could end up in court if no resolution is made...

It would be cool if someone had the totals for each CUSA-departed school's 'exit/penalty' fees over the conference's history... THAT average value might be the whole key to the SBC-3's confidence in early departure without major hardships financially...

What was paid by previously departed schools a decade plus ago should have no bearing on what is paid this go around. Once all of the CUSA 3.0 members became full members the remnant from CUSA 2.0 authored new bylaws for exiting to make it harder to leave early and to mirror language used by other conferences to make penalties higher. The 70% of the total exit fee penalty paid by UCONN, or the 300% of the total exit fee penalty paid by WVU are the more applicable comparisons. You can't point to the 2012-2014 exits as your comps because Marshall and USM along with the other scorned by the AAC departures threw those rules away and said let's see someone get out of this without it hurting.

Yes, USM and Marshall were screwed over with how light the fees were from some of the AAC schools that left earlier. That should have no bearing on what they pay to get out of this contract.

Do you have a link validating your claims? The only evidence we all have is the tweet that shared "no financial penalties" in language for violating the 14 month rule.

Also, this thread is here to share WHY we all want out.

I do not have a link, I do have the specific bylaws from the 2015-2016 update from a FOIA request to see the changes made. I do not have a copy of the previous bylaws, only secondhand discussion points on why the changes were made at that time.


"3.06 Withdrawal From Conference
No member of the Conference may withdraw from the Conference except pursuant to and as allowed by this Section 3.06. No member may withdraw from the Conference without providing the Conference prior written notice. Any and all withdrawals from the Conference shall be effective on July 1 of the year specified in the notice of withdrawal; provided, however, that the withdrawing member must afford the Conference notice at least fourteen months prior to the effective date of the withdrawal (i.e. no later than May 1 of the prior year). However, if a Member makes statements or takes actions that evidence intent of such Member to withdraw from the Conference either currently or in the future, such actions will be determined as notice of withdrawal by a three-fourths (3/4) vote of the remaining Members of the Board of Directors. In the event that a member attempts to leave the Conference without fully complying with the notice of withdrawal requirements set forth above, the Conference shall be entitled to equitable relief without having to prove actual injury, irreparable or otherwise, including, but not limited to, an injunction requiring the member to comply fully with the notice of withdrawal requirements set forth above, to fulfill all of its obligations as a Conference member, and to remain in the Conference until the earliest permissible date upon which the member could have, under the circumstances, withdrawn with full and proper prior notice as required above. The members agree that any attempted withdrawal of a member without full compliance with the prior notice requirements set forth above would cause a disruption in the scheduling of competitions among the members for which there is no adequate remedy at law which would cause harm that would not in any respect be compensated by payment of a withdrawal fee, and for which, therefore, equitable relief is appropriate.

The withdrawing member shall be responsible for the amount of any and all assessments or debts that the member owes to the Conference as of the effective date of the withdrawal. From the date of notice of withdrawal, the withdrawing member shall have no rights to receive distribution of Conference revenues of any nature (i.e. the Conference shall be entitled to retain distribution for two fiscal years) and shall continue to be obligated to pay Conference expenses, assessments, or debts. Further, the term of office of any Board Member representing a Withdrawing Member shall automatically expire and such Chief Executive Officer shall no longer be a Board Member of the Conference effective as of the notice date or determination of notice to withdraw and such Withdrawing Member shall not be entitled to have a representative on the Board of Directors thereafter. During the period thereafter the number of Board Members shall automatically be reduced by the number of Withdrawing Members; and the Withdrawing Member(s) shall not be permitted to attend any meeting of, vote on any matter before, receive notice of any meeting of, or receive copies of materials distributed to the Board of Directors; the Conference shall however, inform the Chief Executive Officer of a Withdrawing Member about matters (as determined by the Commissioner in his/her sole discretion) that may materially impact the Withdrawing Member during the period prior to the effective date of the withdrawal in a manner disproportionate to the Withdrawing Member and shall provide the Chief Executive Officer of the Withdrawing Member with a reasonable opportunity for discussion with the Board of Directors on such issues as requested Each of the Members agrees that withdrawal of a member from the Conference would cause damage and financial hardship to the Conference and its continuing members, that the financial consequences to the Conference and its continuing members of such withdrawal cannot be measured or estimated with certainty at this time, and that the withholding of distributions pursuant to the preceding paragraph is a reasonable method of compensating the Conference and the continuing members for such damage and financial hardship and is not and shall not be construed as a penalty.

"

Also, understood on the thread topic, was merely responding to a point given in the thread and providing counterpoints on a topic being actively discussed in the thread.

I wonder if we can find the 2021 bylaws...that is out of date and not tangible really...

Any internet warriors out there who can find the current bylaws?

Many times bylaws do not get updated every year.
02-20-2022 04:26 PM
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tanqtonic Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Why do the SB3 want to leave now?
(02-17-2022 09:41 AM)SICemDAWGS! Wrote:  
(02-17-2022 09:06 AM)rileylives Wrote:  
(02-17-2022 08:55 AM)SICemDAWGS! Wrote:  
(02-17-2022 01:30 AM)GreenFreakUAB Wrote:  ...ultimately, I figure after they crunched the numbers, they found that getting the SBC - ESPN deal rolling early will offset any potential 'penalties' for early departure...

...with that, I am sure they have documented the 'past departures' by other teams, and may well have enough data to show that the average 'penalties' paid by those previous institutions were not all that much in the grand scheme (I've gleaned that from other messages, so... I'm sure it is infallible 03-drunk )

So, if CUSA now comes in and wants, say $5 mill apiece as 'penalties', it can be challenged with the past totals, and I reckon they could end up in court if no resolution is made...

It would be cool if someone had the totals for each CUSA-departed school's 'exit/penalty' fees over the conference's history... THAT average value might be the whole key to the SBC-3's confidence in early departure without major hardships financially...

What was paid by previously departed schools a decade plus ago should have no bearing on what is paid this go around. Once all of the CUSA 3.0 members became full members the remnant from CUSA 2.0 authored new bylaws for exiting to make it harder to leave early and to mirror language used by other conferences to make penalties higher. The 70% of the total exit fee penalty paid by UCONN, or the 300% of the total exit fee penalty paid by WVU are the more applicable comparisons. You can't point to the 2012-2014 exits as your comps because Marshall and USM along with the other scorned by the AAC departures threw those rules away and said let's see someone get out of this without it hurting.

Yes, USM and Marshall were screwed over with how light the fees were from some of the AAC schools that left earlier. That should have no bearing on what they pay to get out of this contract.

Do you have a link validating your claims? The only evidence we all have is the tweet that shared "no financial penalties" in language for violating the 14 month rule.

Also, this thread is here to share WHY we all want out.

I do not have a link, I do have the specific bylaws from the 2015-2016 update from a FOIA request to see the changes made. I do not have a copy of the previous bylaws, only secondhand discussion points on why the changes were made at that time.


"3.06 Withdrawal From Conference
No member of the Conference may withdraw from the Conference except pursuant to and as allowed by this Section 3.06. No member may withdraw from the Conference without providing the Conference prior written notice. Any and all withdrawals from the Conference shall be effective on July 1 of the year specified in the notice of withdrawal; provided, however, that the withdrawing member must afford the Conference notice at least fourteen months prior to the effective date of the withdrawal (i.e. no later than May 1 of the prior year). However, if a Member makes statements or takes actions that evidence intent of such Member to withdraw from the Conference either currently or in the future, such actions will be determined as notice of withdrawal by a three-fourths (3/4) vote of the remaining Members of the Board of Directors. In the event that a member attempts to leave the Conference without fully complying with the notice of withdrawal requirements set forth above, the Conference shall be entitled to equitable relief without having to prove actual injury, irreparable or otherwise, including, but not limited to, an injunction requiring the member to comply fully with the notice of withdrawal requirements set forth above, to fulfill all of its obligations as a Conference member, and to remain in the Conference until the earliest permissible date upon which the member could have, under the circumstances, withdrawn with full and proper prior notice as required above. The members agree that any attempted withdrawal of a member without full compliance with the prior notice requirements set forth above would cause a disruption in the scheduling of competitions among the members for which there is no adequate remedy at law which would cause harm that would not in any respect be compensated by payment of a withdrawal fee, and for which, therefore, equitable relief is appropriate.

The withdrawing member shall be responsible for the amount of any and all assessments or debts that the member owes to the Conference as of the effective date of the withdrawal. From the date of notice of withdrawal, the withdrawing member shall have no rights to receive distribution of Conference revenues of any nature (i.e. the Conference shall be entitled to retain distribution for two fiscal years) and shall continue to be obligated to pay Conference expenses, assessments, or debts. Further, the term of office of any Board Member representing a Withdrawing Member shall automatically expire and such Chief Executive Officer shall no longer be a Board Member of the Conference effective as of the notice date or determination of notice to withdraw and such Withdrawing Member shall not be entitled to have a representative on the Board of Directors thereafter. During the period thereafter the number of Board Members shall automatically be reduced by the number of Withdrawing Members; and the Withdrawing Member(s) shall not be permitted to attend any meeting of, vote on any matter before, receive notice of any meeting of, or receive copies of materials distributed to the Board of Directors; the Conference shall however, inform the Chief Executive Officer of a Withdrawing Member about matters (as determined by the Commissioner in his/her sole discretion) that may materially impact the Withdrawing Member during the period prior to the effective date of the withdrawal in a manner disproportionate to the Withdrawing Member and shall provide the Chief Executive Officer of the Withdrawing Member with a reasonable opportunity for discussion with the Board of Directors on such issues as requested Each of the Members agrees that withdrawal of a member from the Conference would cause damage and financial hardship to the Conference and its continuing members, that the financial consequences to the Conference and its continuing members of such withdrawal cannot be measured or estimated with certainty at this time, and that the withholding of distributions pursuant to the preceding paragraph is a reasonable method of compensating the Conference and the continuing members for such damage and financial hardship and is not and shall not be construed as a penalty.

"

Also, understood on the thread topic, was merely responding to a point given in the thread and providing counterpoints on a topic being actively discussed in the thread.

Did you do the FOIA request? Or is this a pass-along?
02-20-2022 04:28 PM
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Reggie Favre Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Why do the SB3 want to leave now?
(02-17-2022 01:15 PM)rileylives Wrote:  
(02-17-2022 01:09 PM)banker Wrote:  The question really is, why would we want to stay and why would any of the other schools want us to?

What benefit does any remaining team get from us staying? The scheduling can be worked out.

It’s like getting a divorce but your wife wanting you to stay in the house with her another year - why? So you can fight everyday and hate each other more? If you’re worried about the house payment, we can make that, making us stay is just being petty.

It’s over, Becky. Just move on.

Because in this case, Becky (CUSA) WANTS THE HOUSE TO BURN DOWN WITH THE DIVORCE.

The wifes's name is actually Judy and hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. The butthurt is real.
02-20-2022 04:28 PM
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tanqtonic Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Why do the SB3 want to leave now?
(02-20-2022 04:25 PM)Reggie Favre Wrote:  
(02-17-2022 01:05 PM)SICemDAWGS! Wrote:  
(02-17-2022 12:42 PM)HerdZoned Wrote:  
(02-17-2022 01:30 AM)GreenFreakUAB Wrote:  ...ultimately, I figure after they crunched the numbers, they found that getting the SBC - ESPN deal rolling early will offset any potential 'penalties' for early departure...

...with that, I am sure they have documented the 'past departures' by other teams, and may well have enough data to show that the average 'penalties' paid by those previous institutions were not all that much in the grand scheme (I've gleaned that from other messages, so... I'm sure it is infallible 03-drunk )

So, if CUSA now comes in and wants, say $5 mill apiece as 'penalties', it can be challenged with the past totals, and I reckon they could end up in court if no resolution is made...

It would be cool if someone had the totals for each CUSA-departed school's 'exit/penalty' fees over the conference's history... THAT average value might be the whole key to the SBC-3's confidence in early departure without major hardships financially...

Louisville, Cincinnati, USF and TCU didn't pay a dime to CUSA. CUSA just let them walk free and clear

UCF, Memphis, Tulsa, Tulane, Houston, SMU and ECU paid a combined 6.9 million of the 21 million they owed (Aprox 900K of the 3 million owed for each school). Memphis didn't pay a dime out of pocket, instead they paid with their basketball credits, which should have run out this year or next.

This will definitely be brought to light when this goes to court or mediation.

The bolded is exactly why the bylaws were restructured and reaffirmed to make it more difficult and ensure the conference received every penny and would win any penalties moving forward. It absolutely sucks for USM and Marshall that those schools skated for pennies on the dollar that you were owed but never got. Those schools doing that and the subsequent changes are why your schools along with ODU will not have the same fortune.

Please do tell us what that "every penny" and "penalties" would be, based on that restructuring you referenced. We are all waiting.

The members all (including the early leaving three) ostensibly agreed that they could be enjoined from leaving early. This makes it inherently harder, and more problematic to leave outside the rules.

Much better leverage from the CUSA to extract better exits from early departing members.
(This post was last modified: 02-20-2022 04:40 PM by tanqtonic.)
02-20-2022 04:40 PM
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JCMiner Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Why do the SB3 want to leave now?
I want them out of here asap but if CUSA wants to make their departure as hard as possible I'm ok with that too.

My main reason is that they try to portray this image that they wanted to save CUSA by adding Liberty but the two west schools (UTEP & La Tech) weren't having it. I'm not sure how that logic works since they had five of the seven votes to do what they wanted. In their mind it makes sense.
02-20-2022 05:02 PM
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