@Dan_Hope·1h

Gene Smith said that when the Big Ten/Pac-12/ACC Alliance started, there was more conversation about reducing to eight conference games and scheduling more non-conference games against each other, but he says they’ve moved away from that, believing nine conference games is best.

@Dan_Hope·1h

Gene Smith said he believes the College Football Playoff will eventually expand to 12 teams – “I'll be surprised if it doesn't” – but he doesn’t know when it will happen.

@Dan_Hope·48m

Gene Smith says he doesn’t think playing annual games against the ACC and Pac-12 would be worth playing only eight Big Ten games and potentially not being able to play non-conference games against teams like Alabama, Texas, Notre Dame, etc.




Tony Gerdeman
@TonyGerdeman

Gene Smith said the scheduling portion of The Alliance is essentially over. The Big Ten will likely stick with nine conference games.
11:48 AM · Feb 16, 2022

https://csnbbs.com/thread-942010-post-18...id18077619

taking time out of a busy schedule ...
honored ...
just goes to show ...
ya never know who reads you ...

WHO’S WHO

The whole "Alliance" concept was a cold wet noodle tossed against the wall of playoff expansion just to express frustration and to see if it would stick. Going back to 8 conference games was also DOA as networks want more conference games because they always get 100% out of those instead of 100% every other year. Kliavkoff is a rookie, but at least he is a businessman. He'll figure this out. Warren? Rotsa Ruck with that one! The ACC pissed off ESPN and alienated the SEC and for what?

It was never going to work and I don't think anyone in the ACC expected it to.
When it was first announced Mack was hopeful that some west coast school would take the Minnesota games off of Carolina's hands so that we could re-schedule someone closer to home. Crickets.
The horse stumbled out of the gate and you just knew that it was going to have to be shot.

I never understood the scheduling idea and it seems all three conferences are on the same page as far as scrapping divisions. This is excellent news!

(02-17-2022 07:46 AM)esayem Wrote:  I never understood the scheduling idea and it seems all three conferences are on the same page as far as scrapping divisions. This is excellent news!

More on Alliance scheduling: Miami AD is saying it works for schools like the U which don't have annual OOC rivals, but not for schools like FSU and Clemson which do.

I'm also reading that the Big Ten is still willing do Alliance scheduling... just not for free (they are up for contract renewal, and they want this baked into the value - if they can reach an agreement).

I wouldn't call this dead, more like "a developing story".

(02-16-2022 02:02 PM)JRsec Wrote:  The whole "Alliance" concept was a cold wet noodle tossed against the wall of playoff expansion just to express frustration and to see if it would stick. Going back to 8 conference games was also DOA as networks want more conference games because they always get 100% out of those instead of 100% every other year. Kliavkoff is a rookie, but at least he is a businessman. He'll figure this out. Warren? Rotsa Ruck with that one! The ACC pissed off ESPN and alienated the SEC and for what?

Disagree. Though I think you have the ESPN take on things more or less 100% correct there.

The most important things for the Alliance to accomplish, in order of size of the job:
- Prevent ESPN from expanding the playoffs while holding 100% of all the rights. Collegiate athletics doesn't need to drive off the same Disney cliff that Star Wars and Marvel are heading off... insanely lucrative at first, then whored out until tapped out and left a dead husk.
- As a corollary to the above, get somebody other than ESPN into the CFB broadcast business seriously to act as a power check and financial check.
- Rip March Madness away from the NCAA and run it like the CFB Playoff ... right now everybody good at basketball is funding the welfare of NCAA D3, NCAA D2, and more than half of NCAA D1. It's like actively shooting yourself in the foot while the SEC runs off with the FB money.
- Restore some semblance of regulatory sanity in collegiate athletics. We need to get the people not interested in getting an education the hell out of collegiate athletics wholesale full stop. Yes, Virginia, you do need to sit out a year after transferring. No, unrestricted NIL is not a good idea and serves only to destroy the sport over the long term just as every other pro caliber sport you can name in any discipline you care to name as caps/luxury taxes/structure to prevent it devolving into an ugly and highly corrupt game of largest check wins.

(02-17-2022 12:05 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(02-16-2022 02:02 PM)JRsec Wrote:  The whole "Alliance" concept was a cold wet noodle tossed against the wall of playoff expansion just to express frustration and to see if it would stick. Going back to 8 conference games was also DOA as networks want more conference games because they always get 100% out of those instead of 100% every other year. Kliavkoff is a rookie, but at least he is a businessman. He'll figure this out. Warren? Rotsa Ruck with that one! The ACC pissed off ESPN and alienated the SEC and for what?

Disagree. Though I think you have the ESPN take on things more or less 100% correct there.

The most important things for the Alliance to accomplish, in order of size of the job:
- Prevent ESPN from expanding the playoffs while holding 100% of all the rights. Collegiate athletics doesn't need to drive off the same Disney cliff that Star Wars and Marvel are heading off... insanely lucrative at first, then whored out until tapped out and left a dead husk.
- As a corollary to the above, get somebody other than ESPN into the CFB broadcast business seriously to act as a power check and financial check.
- Rip March Madness away from the NCAA and run it like the CFB Playoff ... right now everybody good at basketball is funding the welfare of NCAA D3, NCAA D2, and more than half of NCAA D1. It's like actively shooting yourself in the foot while the SEC runs off with the FB money.
- Restore some semblance of regulatory sanity in collegiate athletics. We need to get the people not interested in getting an education the hell out of collegiate athletics wholesale full stop. Yes, Virginia, you do need to sit out a year after transferring. No, unrestricted NIL is not a good idea and serves only to destroy the sport over the long term just as every other pro caliber sport you can name in any discipline you care to name as caps/luxury taxes/structure to prevent it devolving into an ugly and highly corrupt game of largest check wins.

The bolded stuff is now Beyond The Pale. These things are deader than fried chicken and will not be regulated as you state in the future. The Wild West is here, the player lawsuits (past, present and future) have killed that model for (big time, upper level) college football forever.

The NCAA, the conferences and the individual schools have only themselves to blame for that by keeping up their hard line stances on these issues and forcing the players to file their lawsuits.

You will not get every conference to agree to limit NIL . The ones that do or try will be destroyed in recruiting by those who do not or will not.

The same with transfers. That is never going to happen again. If the ACC, for example, tried to restrict player movement, its recruiting efforts will take a brick to the face.

Athletes are going to become employees. If they unionize, you can collectively bargain some, but not much, of these matters. But, that will result from negotiated agreements with the players and not by fiat from above.

But the days of the NCAA or the ACC or whatever conference or institution unilaterally imposing these limitations or restrictions on collegiate level athletes is long gone, never to return.

You or I may not like it, but that is the reality going forward.

(02-17-2022 12:35 PM)TerryD Wrote:  The bolded stuff is now Beyond The Pale. These things are deader than fried chicken and will not be regulated as you state in the future. The Wild West is here, the player lawsuits (past, present and future) have killed that model for college football forever.

The NCAA, the conferences and the individual schools have only themselves to blame for that by keeping up their hard line stances on these issues and forcing the players to file their lawsuits.

You will not get every conference to agree to limit NIL . The ones that do or try will be destroyed in recruiting by those who do not or will not.

The same with transfers. That is never going to happen again. If the ACC, for example, tried to restrict player movement, its recruiting efforts will take a brick to the face.

Athletes are going to become employees. If they unionize, you can collectively bargain some, but not much, of these matters.

But the days of the NCAA or the ACC or whatever conference or institution unilaterally imposing these limitations or restrictions on collegiate level athletes is long gone, never to return.

You or I may not like it, but that is the reality going forward.

Well, I watched the last time a sport went full blown no regulatory regime biggest check wins. That was Formula 1 in the 90s. It brought the sport to its knees and almost made it fold completely. If you're right, then what we're seeing here is the beginning of a slow and then accelerated death of collegiate football as a relevant national sport.

(02-17-2022 12:38 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(02-17-2022 12:35 PM)TerryD Wrote:  The bolded stuff is now Beyond The Pale. These things are deader than fried chicken and will not be regulated as you state in the future. The Wild West is here, the player lawsuits (past, present and future) have killed that model for college football forever.

The NCAA, the conferences and the individual schools have only themselves to blame for that by keeping up their hard line stances on these issues and forcing the players to file their lawsuits.

You will not get every conference to agree to limit NIL . The ones that do or try will be destroyed in recruiting by those who do not or will not.

The same with transfers. That is never going to happen again. If the ACC, for example, tried to restrict player movement, its recruiting efforts will take a brick to the face.

Athletes are going to become employees. If they unionize, you can collectively bargain some, but not much, of these matters.

But the days of the NCAA or the ACC or whatever conference or institution unilaterally imposing these limitations or restrictions on collegiate level athletes is long gone, never to return.

You or I may not like it, but that is the reality going forward.

Well, I watched the last time a sport went full blown no regulatory regime biggest check wins. That was Formula 1 in the 90s. It brought the sport to its knees and almost made it fold completely. If you're right, then what we're seeing here is the beginning of a slow and then accelerated death of collegiate football as a relevant national sport.

I think that we are headed to NFL Lite and NBA Lite regarding college sports.

I look around at billion dollar TV conference TV deal discussions, $10 million dollar a year head coaching salaries, and $400 million dollar facilities and think that the biggest checks win now.

I do not blame the players at all for watching all of this greed flying everywhere in college athletics for the past 45 years or so and not wanting a bigger piece of that pie.

The greed of past decades is finally catching up with college sports. Like I said, it is the Wild West now and it is not the players who are to blame for this.

That part of it was all a red herring.

The Alliance scheduling is difficult because honetstly the BIG ten games are way more valuable than the ACC and the PAC games. They may still go ahead with this idea if the BIG is handsomely compensated althoguh I would think it’s going to be difficult.

To me, the Alliance was formed for political reasons. Somewhat similar to a political party. Each Alliance member has somewhat different agenda but as a whole they can be a very strong voting block.

(02-17-2022 12:46 PM)TIGER-PAUL Wrote:  That part of it was all a red herring.

I think that entire "Alliance" idea was a knee jerk, PR smoke and mirrors response to Texas and Oklahoma joining the SEC.

I think that most of the Alliance stuff is a red herring.

It was a thinly veiled attempt by those three conferences to delay the playoff expansion only and I think that the ACC is using this to try to leverage ND (despite Jim Phillips denials) and to leverage ESPN.

(I think that both of those leverage attempts will fail)

If the "Alliance" was really so strong on the players health and safety, for instance, they would be pushing for a ten game regular season and for ditching the made-for-TV conference championship games.

They are not and will not. Why? Well, cash of course.

So, I think that the Alliance will dry up and blow away over time.

The Big Ten has no real incentive to work with the ACC. I think that it will more than likely want to raid the ACC instead.

Self interest always rules the day.

(02-17-2022 12:47 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  The Alliance scheduling is difficult because honetstly the BIG ten games are way more valuable than the ACC and the PAC games. They may still go ahead with this idea if the BIG is handsomely compensated althoguh I would think it’s going to be difficult.

To me, the Alliance was formed for political reasons. Somewhat similar to a political party. Each Alliance member has somewhat different agenda but as a whole they can be a very strong voting block.

How is the B1G going to be further compensated in a way that is ok with the ACC and Pac12? Are they only going to play B1G home games? That's not going to work. Give the B1G 1/2 the TV money from the away games. I would think the ACC and Pac12 would rather have a conference game that they get to keep all the money from. Straight cash from the ACC and Pac12 for the honor of playing B1G teams. Some how I don't see that flying either.

This idea is dead in the water.

The Big Ten plays one meaningful OOC game a year and that’s how they pump themselves up by playoff time. They’re almost always overrated. Why not just follow their model with 9 conference games and a meaningful SEC opponent? We’ve got marquee games sitting on the shelf in our current model. No divisions and nine games is the way to go.

(02-17-2022 12:05 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(02-16-2022 02:02 PM)JRsec Wrote:  The whole "Alliance" concept was a cold wet noodle tossed against the wall of playoff expansion just to express frustration and to see if it would stick. Going back to 8 conference games was also DOA as networks want more conference games because they always get 100% out of those instead of 100% every other year. Kliavkoff is a rookie, but at least he is a businessman. He'll figure this out. Warren? Rotsa Ruck with that one! The ACC pissed off ESPN and alienated the SEC and for what?

Disagree. Though I think you have the ESPN take on things more or less 100% correct there.

The most important things for the Alliance to accomplish, in order of size of the job:
- Prevent ESPN from expanding the playoffs while holding 100% of all the rights. Collegiate athletics doesn't need to drive off the same Disney cliff that Star Wars and Marvel are heading off... insanely lucrative at first, then whored out until tapped out and left a dead husk.
- As a corollary to the above, get somebody other than ESPN into the CFB broadcast business seriously to act as a power check and financial check.
- Rip March Madness away from the NCAA and run it like the CFB Playoff ... right now everybody good at basketball is funding the welfare of NCAA D3, NCAA D2, and more than half of NCAA D1. It's like actively shooting yourself in the foot while the SEC runs off with the FB money.
- Restore some semblance of regulatory sanity in collegiate athletics. We need to get the people not interested in getting an education the hell out of collegiate athletics wholesale full stop. Yes, Virginia, you do need to sit out a year after transferring. No, unrestricted NIL is not a good idea and serves only to destroy the sport over the long term just as every other pro caliber sport you can name in any discipline you care to name as caps/luxury taxes/structure to prevent it devolving into an ugly and highly corrupt game of largest check wins.

1. I think liberating basketball from the NCAA's control is universally accepted among P5 programs. Which non P5 conferences would be included is hazier and likely the only hang up.

2. Pay for play and limits are a non-issue as courts will decide these.

3. So the only issue was the expansion which the SEC really doesn't care about, ESPN does, and I'm sure the Alliance only kept Sankey from having to publicly agree to shopping it. So, it's one impasse in which the SEC could look diplomatic and let others shoulder the blame for delay. It's a do nothing, risk nothing, win win for the SEC, and life just doesn't deal you many of those situations, so we are thankful, you pay the price, the B1G shows their true colors to you and the PAC 12, and everything is in our favor including the continuation of a 4 school CFP. It's as close as Sankey will ever get to having a Ferris Beuller's Day Off. He probably could drive a Fararri, likely has been to a Cubs game, should sing Danke Schoen, and will only be missing a swimming pool with Sloan (Big whiff there but he is a nerd). And yes, his sister could kick the crap out of Warren, if he has one.

(02-17-2022 12:59 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-17-2022 12:05 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(02-16-2022 02:02 PM)JRsec Wrote:  The whole "Alliance" concept was a cold wet noodle tossed against the wall of playoff expansion just to express frustration and to see if it would stick. Going back to 8 conference games was also DOA as networks want more conference games because they always get 100% out of those instead of 100% every other year. Kliavkoff is a rookie, but at least he is a businessman. He'll figure this out. Warren? Rotsa Ruck with that one! The ACC pissed off ESPN and alienated the SEC and for what?

Disagree. Though I think you have the ESPN take on things more or less 100% correct there.

The most important things for the Alliance to accomplish, in order of size of the job:
- Prevent ESPN from expanding the playoffs while holding 100% of all the rights. Collegiate athletics doesn't need to drive off the same Disney cliff that Star Wars and Marvel are heading off... insanely lucrative at first, then whored out until tapped out and left a dead husk.
- As a corollary to the above, get somebody other than ESPN into the CFB broadcast business seriously to act as a power check and financial check.
- Rip March Madness away from the NCAA and run it like the CFB Playoff ... right now everybody good at basketball is funding the welfare of NCAA D3, NCAA D2, and more than half of NCAA D1. It's like actively shooting yourself in the foot while the SEC runs off with the FB money.
- Restore some semblance of regulatory sanity in collegiate athletics. We need to get the people not interested in getting an education the hell out of collegiate athletics wholesale full stop. Yes, Virginia, you do need to sit out a year after transferring. No, unrestricted NIL is not a good idea and serves only to destroy the sport over the long term just as every other pro caliber sport you can name in any discipline you care to name as caps/luxury taxes/structure to prevent it devolving into an ugly and highly corrupt game of largest check wins.

1. I think liberating basketball from the NCAA's control is universally accepted among P5 programs. Which non P5 conferences would be included is hazier and likely the only hang up.

2. Pay for play and limits are a non-issue as courts will decide these.

3. So the only issue was the expansion which the SEC really doesn't care about, ESPN does, and I'm sure the Alliance only kept Sankey from having to publicly agree to shopping it. So, it's one impasse in which the SEC could look diplomatic and let others shoulder the blame for delay. It's a do nothing, risk nothing, win win for the SEC, and life just doesn't deal you many of those situations, so we are thankful, you pay the price, the B1G shows their true colors to you and the PAC 12, and everything is in our favor including the continuation of a 4 school CFP. It's as close as Sankey will ever get to having a Ferris Beuller's Day Off. He probably could drive a Fararri, likely has been to a Cubs game, should sing Danke Schoen, and will only be missing a swimming pool with Sloan (Big whiff there but he is a nerd). And yes, his sister could kick the crap out of Warren, if he has one.

It's over.

Go home.

(02-17-2022 12:05 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(02-16-2022 02:02 PM)JRsec Wrote:  The whole "Alliance" concept was a cold wet noodle tossed against the wall of playoff expansion just to express frustration and to see if it would stick. Going back to 8 conference games was also DOA as networks want more conference games because they always get 100% out of those instead of 100% every other year. Kliavkoff is a rookie, but at least he is a businessman. He'll figure this out. Warren? Rotsa Ruck with that one! The ACC pissed off ESPN and alienated the SEC and for what?

Disagree. Though I think you have the ESPN take on things more or less 100% correct there.

The most important things for the Alliance to accomplish, in order of size of the job:
- Prevent ESPN from expanding the playoffs while holding 100% of all the rights. Collegiate athletics doesn't need to drive off the same Disney cliff that Star Wars and Marvel are heading off... insanely lucrative at first, then whored out until tapped out and left a dead husk.
- As a corollary to the above, get somebody other than ESPN into the CFB broadcast business seriously to act as a power check and financial check.
- Rip March Madness away from the NCAA and run it like the CFB Playoff ... right now everybody good at basketball is funding the welfare of NCAA D3, NCAA D2, and more than half of NCAA D1. It's like actively shooting yourself in the foot while the SEC runs off with the FB money.
- Restore some semblance of regulatory sanity in collegiate athletics. We need to get the people not interested in getting an education the hell out of collegiate athletics wholesale full stop. Yes, Virginia, you do need to sit out a year after transferring. No, unrestricted NIL is not a good idea and serves only to destroy the sport over the long term just as every other pro caliber sport you can name in any discipline you care to name as caps/luxury taxes/structure to prevent it devolving into an ugly and highly corrupt game of largest check wins.

A return to freshman ineligibility would be the one way to do all that you wanted.


But .... this ain't happening.

(02-17-2022 12:54 PM)esayem Wrote:  The Big Ten plays one meaningful OOC game a year and that’s how they pump themselves up by playoff time. They’re almost always overrated. Why not just follow their model with 9 conference games and a meaningful SEC opponent? We’ve got marquee games sitting on the shelf in our current model. No divisions and nine games is the way to go.

Yes, and yes, and yes on this one. They scream about the SEC's schedule but who the hell do they play? PAC & MAC. Sounds like a kiddie's meal at Mickey D's! Division less will make the ACC more marketable, if utilized to do so.